AoS 2 - Legion of Blood Discussion

[Saiken]

@ianob from today on, I'm going to call you Master. Because you know ...

Quote

Master of puppets I'm pulling your strings
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams

More seriously, I'm curious why it doesn't actually work, and what are the other viable routes that could be considered
Thanks for you honesty though ! ?

[Lightbox]

On the topic of friendly games has anyone found the wraithbow shyish artefact to be interesting? A bit of range could be fun to play with and I super love the idea of modelling a vampire with an ethereal bow.

 

Of course competitively you'll want to buff stuff up more than get a couple extra shots out but I also do a lot of friendly games so thinking it could be fun to bust it out for those.

[ianob]

45 minutes ago, Saiken said:

@ianob from today on, I'm going to call you Master. Because you know ...

More seriously, I'm curious why it doesn't actually work, and what are the other viable routes that could be considered
Thanks for you honesty though ! ?

Without sounding flippant.... it's just not very good. It's a lot of points investment, positional investment, unit investment, etc and ultimately the payoff just isn't as good as it looks on paper. It's easier and less resilient to people breaking your combo to just use good units that dont need a pile of stuff to go right for what is ultimately no better than just attacking with a solid unit.

[smucreo]

Does Neffs command ability stack with itself? Looking at the wording I'd say no, am I correct?

[Honk]

1 hour ago, smucreo said:

Looking at the wording I'd say no, am I correct?

How is that different from Arkhans CA?! Units within distance X receive bonus Y...

And here is a first take on a neffi bravery bomb list... don’t try this against nurgle

 

Puppies for screening, Black knights for fast attack and -1 bravery, the morghast for another -1 where you want to put the pressure on, necromancer for another bravery debuff and then terrorgheist to kill...

the double gheists to take pressure off neffi and give a good target saturation. Just an instant list, so still room to wiggle and juggle.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Honk

[Izotzuhure]

Bit of a silly question about the Coven Throne. Do the handmaidens count as part of the mount, like the Spectral Host, in terms of carrying magic weapons? 

[Honk]

3 hours ago, Izotzuhure said:

Do the handmaidens count as part of the mount

No...

But that doesn´t help, as they are not part of the Queen, if you think about a magic sword

[GameSpark]

This is my Legion of Blood army list.  

I wanted to do Legion of Sacrament for an undead army, but they're a bit to similar to my Gnarlroot Sylvaneth; magic heavy.  I might do a Legion of Sacrament army later but for now I'll try Legion of Blood.   I'm hoping to make a tourney-worthy list and this is my idea so far; 

Neferata, Mortarch Of Blood - 400 

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed - 140 (Orb of Enchantment)

Vampire Lord - 140 (Flying Horror)

Reikenor the Grimhailer - 180  (allied)

40 skeletons - 280 (Spears)

5 dire wolves  - 60

5 dire wolves  - 60

3 Spirit Hosts - 120

5 Hexwraiths - 160

20 Chainrasps - 160 (Dreadwarden)

Terrorgheist - 300

Total 2000

 

I'd use the Hexwraiths as war machine hunters while the fast moving elements can also reach combat quicker to avoid some shooting and hostile magic.

The prime candidate for Neferata's "immune to rending" spell is the Terrorgheist.  In addition, the -1 to bravery for enemies within 6" makes them more susceptible to the Terrorgheist's Death Shriek.  Neferata's Twilight Allure can also put a crimp in enemy shooting.    

The mounted Knight of Shrouds can boost the attack output of my Nighthaunt units to increase the chance of dealing Mortal Wounds  (except the Chainrasps, and I'm not sure if it works on Reikenor's CC attacks).  He also carries the Orb of Enchantment to tie up a powerful character for a turn of combat so they can't attack (looking at you, Archaon, Alarielle or Vhordrai). 

I think this army has some combat potential and puts out a decent amount of Mortal Wounds; several CC attacks along with the Death Shriek and spells of Neferata, the Vampire Lord and Reikenor (along with Reikenor's candles).  Death Wizards in Legion of Blood knowing an extra spell is quite handy, and for Reikenor he'll have the spell Soul Cage to make an enemy unit attack last.  The +1 attack for the Vampire Lord is a small yet noteworthy bonus.  There's also some healing in the form of Neferata using the Lore of Vampires spell Vile Transference and the Vampire Lord's Deathly Invocation; throw in the gravesites and that'll give the army some staying power.

I can use the Chainrasp to quickly capture and hold an objective, with their high unit size and ability to fly, while my Skeleton blob can sit on an objective in my area.  

I don't think this list would be great on every opponent, but on things like Stormcast, Ironjawz and maybe Deepkin it would be brutal.   However, I have no Blood Knights and limited defense against Mortal Wounds.  Does this sound like a strong list?  Or should I try again? 

Edited August 28, 2018 by GameSpark

[LordKalebKhaine]

So I'm looking to get into vampires and I had an idea for a list based on the thought of a vamp lord's hunting party

2 Vampire lords on Nightmare

2 units of five blood knights

two units of five dire wolves

1 unit of either bat swarms or fell bats

soulsnare shackles 

quicksilver swords

1000/1000

Any thoughts on whether I should take this list as soulblight or LoB?
What artifacts/traits/spells?
Fell bats or Bat swarms?
 

[Honk]

Legion of blood would give „all“ of them +1 attack and can revive the puppies... and at 1k they will wreck face.

as Soulblight with the swift death bloodline are crazy fast and can fly, hard choices.

but you will struggle to hold/ claim objectives, with that highly elite list...

so, you almost cannot do anything wrong with either choice, against shooting I would bring the bat swarms 

 

[Ravinsild]

So I really want to start a vampire themed army and I also like really aggressive armies (I play Ironjawz and Khorne) and I love melee. 

I don’t know what I’m doing and I’ve never played death before... so I’m just going to list my favorite real life models and can you guys tell me which of these would fit best in a list? I’ll rank from most favorite coolest looking to still awesome but mildly less cool looking but still cool looking. 

1) Neferata 

2) Morghasts 

3) Terrorghiest

4) Zombie Dragon (including riders like Prince Vordhai or a vampire lord or whatever) 

5) Black Knights 

6) Wight King with Black Blade 

7) Vargheists 

8) Crypt Flayers 

9) Vampire Lord on Nightmare Steed 

10) Vampire Lord (First the one with the outstretched hand and cape, then the lady and the rest are a bit meh....) 

Then I like the idea of Blood Knights and I basically love anything Calvary but I don’t love Resin and they’re incredibly expensive points and literal money-wise.... but I love like Chaos Knights, Mighty Skullcrushers, Gore-Gruntas... I want an awesome Calvary unit. 

Out of all the battle line I like skeletons the most but I also don’t exactly want to buy 300.... I think there are much cooler looking models and I tend to prefer MSU playstyle myself. I’ve also seen Grave Guard absolutely destroy and they look alright. Just kind of cooler Skeletons. I think they’re sort of Death Knight looking which makes them cool. 

I also love the idea of a fear bomb list and if it’s possible to build and have a pretty good army I’m all ears and eyes. 

So that’s my list of things I think look super cool and wish I had some of... is there a workable army in there somewhere? 

It pains me to not use Neferata but if she’s just garbage on the table then I’ll still get her for my shelf and maybe sneak her into Games sometimes but she’s something of a gotta have for me same with Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (my #1 favorite model in their entire line out of literally all the models, and #2 being Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut she’s #3 out of the entire range including board games and other mainlines like 40k)

 

[Honk]

21 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

It pains me to not use Neferata

Well then do it... she is decent.

first half thought through list:

neffi, lord on dragon, necro

10/5/5 wolves, 10/10 black knights

terrorgheist

1910 points, I would suggest 40 for a vortex and cp, or 60 for cogs...

Black knights hit good on a charge, wolves fill battleline and are sturdy objective grabbers

[Ravinsild]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

Well then do it... she is decent.

first half thought through list:

neffi, lord on dragon, necro

10/5/5 wolves, 10/10 black knights

terrorgheist

1910 points, I would suggest 40 for a vortex and cp, or 60 for cogs...

Black knights hit good on a charge, wolves fill battleline and are sturdy objective grabbers

Well what happened was I bought the battle force and it has her and 2 Morghasts and 10 grave guard and 20 skeletons so that’s whats in my collection atm. 

Not sure where to go from here. I could get a Start Collecting FEC for vamp lord on dragon and Vargheists.... otherwise.... idk. 

[Honk]

9 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Not sure where to go from here.

Good plan, generally speaking.

get a dragonlord and some vargheist, just for starters. I‘m not really enthusiastic about your graveguard and 20 skellis, they are too fragile. 

So, I‘d recommend 20 more skellis(10 if you demote the gg) with a necromancer, the classic block. 

Since you‘ll need baseline troops, you might think about the grimghast new hotness, which I hate for unknown reasons or more skellis or some wolves...

I personally prefer fast wolves for elite armies and skellis for mob-heavy lists. Large units of graveguard really wreck face and also huge zombie hordes (60) can cause damage, not to mention board control. 

But that also depends on where you want to go with your army. If you want the fluff...do whatever, if you’re more into competitive gaming, zombies are just not doing it, skellis only in 40s and grimghast for smaller units (what i‘ve read so far). 

And please be sure to magnetize neferata, so you can play the other mortarch too... Arkhan is always a good option, manni too expensive, but also nice

 

[Ravinsild]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

Good plan, generally speaking.

get a dragonlord and some vargheist, just for starters. I‘m not really enthusiastic about your graveguard and 20 skellis, they are too fragile. 

So, I‘d recommend 20 more skellis(10 if you demote the gg) with a necromancer, the classic block. 

Since you‘ll need baseline troops, you might think about the grimghast new hotness, which I hate for unknown reasons or more skellis or some wolves...

I personally prefer fast wolves for elite armies and skellis for mob-heavy lists. Large units of graveguard really wreck face and also huge zombie hordes (60) can cause damage, not to mention board control. 

But that also depends on where you want to go with your army. If you want the fluff...do whatever, if you’re more into competitive gaming, zombies are just not doing it, skellis only in 40s and grimghast for smaller units (what i‘ve read so far). 

And please be sure to magnetize neferata, so you can play the other mortarch too... Arkhan is always a good option, manni too expensive, but also nice

 

Man I just get so nostalgic about Death... I want a little bit of everything you know. 

Collecting this army strangely takes me back to 2010... Wrath of the Lich King WoW expansion came out on my literal birthday and I stayed up allllllllllll night playing it. 

It just all takes me back to Warcraft 3, the Frozen Throne, The Plaguelands (diseased wolves remind me of Dire Wolves miniatures) the Vargheists remind me of Gargoyles, Skeletons, Ghouls and Zombies are all the same. 

Grave Guard remind me of certain enemies and somewhat Death Knights a little. I love the Wight King models. 

Black Knights are awesome and remind me a bit of the LotR kings and just Death Knights on their special class mounts.

Zombie Dragons remind me of frost wyrms. 

Basically I want this to be my army: 

https://youtu.be/BCr7y4SLhck

[Lemon Knuckles]

So does anyone have a competitive blood list they are proud of to share for inspiration?  I have a 2250 pt tourney in a couple of months, and I want to try out LoB.  Need to start my hobby soon if I'm going to make it.

[Honk]

54 minutes ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

I have a 2250 pt tourney in a couple of months,

Well, Nagash rocked Nova... FEC was up there too, no LoB to be seen

but at 2250 double morghast, terrorgheist blackknights could be doable. Then some grimghast and done is fast&furious. With high bravery debuff also the mortis engine could be crazy

or you play it trve:

2x VloZd,2xnecro

2x10 bloodknights, 3x5 wolves

2240 baahm in your face 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Honk

[Lemon Knuckles]

10 minutes ago, Honk said:

Well, Nagash rocked Nova... 

Don't want to play Nagash.  I think it would be hard for me to do anything different or better than all of the others who are playing it, and I'm not good enough (yet ?) to outperform with the same list.

11 minutes ago, Honk said:

but at 2250 double morghast, terrorgheist blackknights could be doable. Then some grimghast and done is fast&furious. With high bravery debuff also the mortis engine could be crazy

Not sure I'm feeling it.  And the inevitable death versus death match-up sounds almost unwinnable in this set-up.  But I could be thinking about it all wrong...

14 minutes ago, Honk said:

or you play it trve:

2x VloZd,2xnecro

2x10 bloodknights, 3x5 wolves

2240 baahm in your face 

Ha!  The benefit here is that games should be over fairly quickly, for better or for worse.  

15 minutes ago, Honk said:

 no LoB to be seen

Part of the reason I want to try it.  But it seems really hard since it doesn't do much to further our two strongest elements: magic and regenerating hordes.  It seems anything Blood can do, other factions can do better.  Which is a shame really.  I might just go Sacrament if I don't get inspired.

[Honk]

24 minutes ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Don't want to play Nagash.

 

24 minutes ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Not sure I'm feeling it.

Tricky customer indeed...

personally I haven’t played blood yet, only GH, LoS, LoN XD FEC

but, since there is a lot you don’t want to play, because everybody else plays it and is better with it too... the non-meta rule of cool list: 

neferata, coven throne, necromancer 

2x5 wolves, 2 morghast, 60 zombies with corpsecart and a batswarm

2 Terrorgheist

this has it all... high profile character, awesome chicks, evil magician, bats and wolves and evil monsters together with a horde of zombies

this list is trve as **** and brings a lot of stuff to the table nobody dares to field, while it should also perform pretty solidly

Edited September 5, 2018 by Honk

[Goddin]

1 hour ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Ha!  The benefit here is that games should be over fairly quickly, for better or for worse.  

Lean into this sentiment with Legion of Blood.  Go very elite, with a few hard to shift objective sitters.

Neferata

VLoZD

VLoZD

Bloodseeker Palaquin

Court of Nuhlahmia Battalion

Chainrasp Horde x20

Chainrasp Horde x20

Chainrasp Horde x20

Command Point

2240 points total.

3 Command points to start, 4 drops, 2 artifacts.  See the conversation ianob and I had 2-3 pages back. 

This list (with my tweaks or his) is very competitive at 2k points.  I took my first loss in several months (I play on average once a week) this past weekend with this list, and it was only due to me forgetting a realm-specific garrison rule that let my opponent teleport to my home objective on round 1.

[Lemon Knuckles]

38 minutes ago, Goddin said:

Lean into this sentiment with Legion of Blood.  Go very elite, with a few hard to shift objective sitters.

Neferata

VLoZD

VLoZD

Bloodseeker Palaquin

Court of Nuhlahmia Battalion

Chainrasp Horde x20

Chainrasp Horde x20

Chainrasp Horde x20

Command Point

2240 points total.

3 Command points to start, 4 drops, 2 artifacts.  See the conversation ianob and I had 2-3 pages back. 

This list (with my tweaks or his) is very competitive at 2k points.  I took my first loss in several months (I play on average once a week) this past weekend with this list, and it was only due to me forgetting a realm-specific garrison rule that let my opponent teleport to my home objective on round 1.

Nice.  This is right along where my head has been going with this problem.... double-dragon blood batallion.  I had provisionally been thinking 3x5 wolves and 9 Spirit Hosts, but 3 blobs of rasp is interesting, and 1 drop less.  

[Goddin]

45 minutes ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Nice.  This is right along where my head has been going with this problem.... double-dragon blood batallion.  I had provisionally been thinking 3x5 wolves and 9 Spirit Hosts, but 3 blobs of rasp is interesting, and 1 drop less. 

I would want my objective sitters to be a bit more substantial than 3x5 dogs and 9 spirit hosts.  The hosts would not shift, but the dogs might in little units of 5. 

You would take 2 units of 10 direwolves, 1 unit of 5 direwolves, and 1 unit of 6 spirit hosts to land at exactly 2250 (5 drops).  These would all be harder to shift if you have these models built/painted and few rasps.  Otherwise, I think minimizing the drops and playing with 3 blobs of rasps works better.

[Lemon Knuckles]

Appreciate you @Goddin; you've given me some great food for thought.

If I take the plunge here, would love to chat a bit about your experiences actually playing this list since you've done well with it.

 

[Goddin]

Happy to, just let me know. 

FYI, @ianob  had it completely right on the artifacts above.  Doppleganger Cloak and Miasmatic Blade mean that if you charge correctly most of your opponents attacks will have to be focused on a VLoZD and if you get good spell rolls that means the opponent is -2  or more to hit him (Miasmatic Blade, Neferata Aura, plus spells like Overwhelming Dread), you will have a 3 up save rerolling 1s, immune to rend (neferata's spell and mystic shield) and a 6+ save against all wounds (deathless minions).    Your other dragon can just sit there with Doppleganger Cloak.

[Lemon Knuckles]

Question based on the image below:

My units are in Blue, and Unit B has the Doppleganger Cloak.  My combat phase.

1. My activation:  Unit A attacks enemy 1 and wipes it out.  
2. Opponent activates, chooses unit 2 but cannot attack due to artefact.
3. My activation:  Unit B attacks enemy 3.
4. Opponent activates unit 3 and attacks B
5. My activation:  no units to activate

Here's the question:  Can opponent now re-activate unit 2 and attack, or was that attack lost entirely due to step 2 in the sequence above?
Thanks.