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AoS 2 - Legion of Blood Discussion

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On 2/3/2020 at 11:09 PM, Zaerion said:

 

is this legal? can i ally 2 units of hexwraiths + the battalion that allows to pass on a 2+ the wounds directed to the general to the hexwraith unit if they are at 3" ??? giving him a virtual pool of 20 wouds...

 

 since they are allied i could not bring them back via gravesites or endless legions but i could via deathly invocation is this legal? xD

 

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
LEADERS
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Command Trait : Aura of Dark Majesty
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact : Ethereal Amulet
- Lore of the Vampires : Vile Transference
Necromancer (130)
Vampire Lord (140)
- Flying Horror
- Artefact : Orb of Enchantment
- Lore of the Vampires : Amethystine Pinions
UNITS
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (210)
- Spirit Halberds
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies
BATTALIONS
The Dolorous Guard (120)

- Allies
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Extra Command Point (50)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 146
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 400/400

Yes. If that batalion has a nighthaunt keyword then it is legal to use as an ally in lon as long as total cost isnt higher then 400 (which it isnt). Deathly invocations works on them but both parts of gravesites dont.

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10 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

Yes. If that batalion has a nighthaunt keyword then it is legal to use as an ally in lon as long as total cost isnt higher then 400 (which it isnt). Deathly invocations works on them but both parts of gravesites dont.

Why gravesites dont work? 

"Pick friendly summonable unit"

They(spirits hosts) friendly,and its ability of gravesite ,they work independently. Can you explain why gravesites dont work.

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31 minutes ago, lugdan said:

Why gravesites dont work? 

"Pick friendly summonable unit"

They(spirits hosts) friendly,and its ability of gravesite ,they work independently. Can you explain why gravesites dont work.

Because it is an alegiance ability and those doesnt work on allies. There was an FAQ about this:


Q: Can I use the Deathless Minions, Endless Legions and Invigorating Aura battle traits for allies in a Legions of Nagash army? A: No. However, note that several Nighthaunt units can now be taken as part of a Legions of Nagash army, and you can use those battle traits for those units (see the Legions of Nagash errata).

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Thinking of building/using this list. Does this look good?

 

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)
- General
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare
Necromancer (130)

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
20 x Skeleton Warriors (160)
- Ancient Blades

Units
10 x Black Knights (240)
10 x Blood Knights (400)
3 x Vargheists (150)
3 x Vargheists (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Shards of Valagharr (40)
Extra Command Point (50)
Horrorghast (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135
 

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1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

Thinking of building/using this list. Does this look good?

 

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)
- General
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare
Necromancer (130)

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
20 x Skeleton Warriors (160)
- Ancient Blades

Units
10 x Black Knights (240)
10 x Blood Knights (400)
3 x Vargheists (150)
3 x Vargheists (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Shards of Valagharr (40)
Extra Command Point (50)
Horrorghast (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135
 

Looks nice but keep in mind that neferata will last as much as 1 round maybe 2 if you are not versus heavy shooting army.

In my opinion is always better the Vampire lord on zombie dragon with ethereal amulet, it ends up diying but at least it last way longer.

 

Also , skellies units if you are not going for 40 models , then i would personally swap them for 20 chainrasp, 20 skeleton are nothing and 20 chain will hold something else longer than the 20 skellies.

Edited by Zaerion

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If we have determined that allying in a Dolorous Guard Battalion would be match play legal, what do people think about adding that to a Court of Nulahmia list?

Solves an issue of Neferata being too easy to kill as a General, with 20 extra virtual wounds, and you've got 4 deathly invocations a turn to keep those Hexwraiths coming back over and over.

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Orb of Enchantment
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Bloodseeker Palanquin (300)
- Artefact: Oubliette Arcana
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
10 x Zombies (60)

Units
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies

Battalions
Court of Nulahmia (150)
The Dolorous Guard (120)
- Allies

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 92 

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Hey all, 

 

Recently participated in a quick 1 day (3 game) event where I took my Legion of Blood.  We played LVO rules and mission sets, as many of the players were using it as practice for LVO. I didn't go to LVO myself, but still went to this event. 

 

I managed to go 3-0, and got 25/25, 24/25, 25/25 possible points each match. EDIT: And come in first if that wasn't obvious enough. 

 

I used the same list as always:

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Aristocracy of Blood
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)

Units
10 x Blood Knights (400)
10 x Blood Knights (400)
5 x Blood Knights (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

 

I don't remember exactly the missions used every game, but I do remember the jist of what I played against and how the game went. 

 

Game 1 was against FEC with 1 GKoTG, 1 zombie dragon, 2 Terrorgheists, a foot Ghoul King, and an archregent. He took first turn and crashed his GKoTG into my chainrasp screen, along with a zombie dragon. He summoned 20 ghouls, and 6 vargheists behind me. Though he killed all my chainrasps, it was about all that happened. My turn I bring my chainrasp unit back with my Command Point. I charge his GKoTG and zombie dragon with my own dragon and a unit of 10 blood knights. My other 10 blood knights make a long charge and I get 5 into each Terrorgheist (they were right next to each other). My unit of 5 blood knights charge into the vargheists and my dogs charge the ghouls. Essentially everything is in combat. I go with my 10 blood knights into his GKoTG and they kill him. He attacks with his Zombie Dragon into mine, and does a couple wounds. I attack with my other 10 blood knights into his terrorgheists and manage to kill both. I then go with my dragon and kill his. Basically at the end of the turn the only things left on the board are his foot heroes. He conceeds bottom of turn 1. 

 

Game 2  was against Bonereapers with a leige, boneshaper, some other support hero, 2 mortek crawlers, 30 mortek guard, and two units of 10 deathriders. We played battle for the pass, so long table edges. Importantly we are playing in Ulgu, with the realm ability to teleport a unit from one table edge to another. He took first turn and shoots a couple chainrasp as that's all that is in range and moves the two deathrider units on the objectives. In my turn I get pinions double casted, so the dragon is going 24".  I teleport one unit of 10 blood knights 9" from his crawlers. The dragon charges one unit of deathriders, and chainrasps the other unit. The bloodknights make their charge into the crawler. The dragon wiffs and kills 1 single deathrider, and the chainrasps kill none. The bloodknights manage to kill the first crawler.  His turn sees him move his mortek guard and charge my 10 blood knights threatening his other crawler. He kills a few more chainrasp and puts some wounds on the dragon. His mortek guard only kill two blood knights. My turn I retreat my dragon and my blood knights in combat with his mortek guard. My unit of 5 blood knights charge the unit of deathriders in combat with my chainrasps and my other 10 man unit of blood knights charge the deathriders that my dragon retreated out of. Both units of deathriders and wiped out. I roll and get priority, meaning my dragon and bloodknights can charge into his heroes and I kill the other crawler. He conceeds top of turn 3. 

 

Game 3 was against FEC again, with two GKoTG, an archregent, crpyt ghast, 30 ghouls, 10 ghouls, 10 ghouls on starsrtike. This game was clearly a match of "get the charge and win", with the first turn not being relevant for scoring. Knowing that, he gives me first turn knowing I couldn't get things into charge range. I try to pinions my dragon hoping for a 9+*, but he unbinds it. I cast mystic shield on the chainrasp screen and end my turn. His turn he does mostly the same, shimmying units around and ends his turn. We haven't really moved at all. Turn 2 the first objectives come down, and I win the roll, but give him the turn. He tries to get my objective by summoning units, but doesn't succeed with his charges. He throws one GKoTG into one unit of 10 blood knights I had on my flank, but only manages to kill 2. I countercharge with the 5 man unit, with the 8 already there which is enough to kill the GKoTG. I kill all his summoned units with my dragon and other unit of 10 blood knights. I moved my chainrasps up and charge into basically his entire army because of the short distances between units. Which then pile in in such a way that pulls the screen off one side of his other GKoTG. I win priority, and get my unit of 10 blood knights into his GKoTG, my unit of 8 into the 30 man ghoul block , the unit of 5 into the archregent. The turn ends with everything he has dead top of turn 3. 

*I really enjoy getting pinions off and YOLOing the dragon into the biggest thing in the opponents army even if it's not the smartest play to make. 

 

In the end it was a great event. Blood Knights are absolutely bonkers on the charge. I find that while I'm playing the objective game, I know my army can kill things very well. I play objectives JUST enough to go down too badly in points for those first couple turns, but focus on killing everything I can. If I can do it fast enough, I can then retroactively go back and grab points if I need to. Though as shown in these games I didn't even need to do that. 

Edited by Ignatius "Nate" T
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On 2/8/2020 at 4:07 PM, Ignatius "Nate" T said:

Hey all, 

 

Recently participated in a quick 1 day (3 game) event where I took my Legion of Blood.  We played LVO rules and mission sets, as many of the players were using it as practice for LVO. I didn't go to LVO myself, but still went to this event. 

 

I managed to go 3-0, and got 25/25, 24/25, 25/25 possible points each match. EDIT: And come in first if that wasn't obvious enough. 

 

I used the same list as always:

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Aristocracy of Blood
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)

Units
10 x Blood Knights (400)
10 x Blood Knights (400)
5 x Blood Knights (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

 

I don't remember exactly the missions used every game, but I do remember the jist of what I played against and how the game went. 

 

Game 1 was against FEC with 1 GKoTG, 1 zombie dragon, 2 Terrorgheists, a foot Ghoul King, and an archregent. He took first turn and crashed his GKoTG into my chainrasp screen, along with a zombie dragon. He summoned 20 ghouls, and 6 vargheists behind me. Though he killed all my chainrasps, it was about all that happened. My turn I bring my chainrasp unit back with my Command Point. I charge his GKoTG and zombie dragon with my own dragon and a unit of 10 blood knights. My other 10 blood knights make a long charge and I get 5 into each Terrorgheist (they were right next to each other). My unit of 5 blood knights charge into the vargheists and my dogs charge the ghouls. Essentially everything is in combat. I go with my 10 blood knights into his GKoTG and they kill him. He attacks with his Zombie Dragon into mine, and does a couple wounds. I attack with my other 10 blood knights into his terrorgheists and manage to kill both. I then go with my dragon and kill his. Basically at the end of the turn the only things left on the board are his foot heroes. He conceeds bottom of turn 1. 

 

Game 2  was against Bonereapers with a leige, boneshaper, some other support hero, 2 mortek crawlers, 30 mortek guard, and two units of 10 deathriders. We played battle for the pass, so long table edges. Importantly we are playing in Ulgu, with the realm ability to teleport a unit from one table edge to another. He took first turn and shoots a couple chainrasp as that's all that is in range and moves the two deathrider units on the objectives. In my turn I get pinions double casted, so the dragon is going 24".  I teleport one unit of 10 blood knights 9" from his crawlers. The dragon charges one unit of deathriders, and chainrasps the other unit. The bloodknights make their charge into the crawler. The dragon wiffs and kills 1 single deathrider, and the chainrasps kill none. The bloodknights manage to kill the first crawler.  His turn sees him move his mortek guard and charge my 10 blood knights threatening his other crawler. He kills a few more chainrasp and puts some wounds on the dragon. His mortek guard only kill two blood knights. My turn I retreat my dragon and my blood knights in combat with his mortek guard. My unit of 5 blood knights charge the unit of deathriders in combat with my chainrasps and my other 10 man unit of blood knights charge the deathriders that my dragon retreated out of. Both units of deathriders and wiped out. I roll and get priority, meaning my dragon and bloodknights can charge into his heroes and I kill the other crawler. He conceeds top of turn 3. 

 

Game 3 was against FEC again, with two GKoTG, an archregent, crpyt ghast, 30 ghouls, 10 ghouls, 10 ghouls on starsrtike. This game was clearly a match of "get the charge and win", with the first turn not being relevant for scoring. Knowing that, he gives me first turn knowing I couldn't get things into charge range. I try to pinions my dragon hoping for a 9+*, but he unbinds it. I cast mystic shield on the chainrasp screen and end my turn. His turn he does mostly the same, shimmying units around and ends his turn. We haven't really moved at all. Turn 2 the first objectives come down, and I win the roll, but give him the turn. He tries to get my objective by summoning units, but doesn't succeed with his charges. He throws one GKoTG into one unit of 10 blood knights I had on my flank, but only manages to kill 2. I countercharge with the 5 man unit, with the 8 already there which is enough to kill the GKoTG. I kill all his summoned units with my dragon and other unit of 10 blood knights. I moved my chainrasps up and charge into basically his entire army because of the short distances between units. Which then pile in in such a way that pulls the screen off one side of his other GKoTG. I win priority, and get my unit of 10 blood knights into his GKoTG, my unit of 8 into the 30 man ghoul block , the unit of 5 into the archregent. The turn ends with everything he has dead top of turn 3. 

*I really enjoy getting pinions off and YOLOing the dragon into the biggest thing in the opponents army even if it's not the smartest play to make. 

 

In the end it was a great event. Blood Knights are absolutely bonkers on the charge. I find that while I'm playing the objective game, I know my army can kill things very well. I play objectives JUST enough to go down too badly in points for those first couple turns, but focus on killing everything I can. If I can do it fast enough, I can then retroactively go back and grab points if I need to. Though as shown in these games I didn't even need to do that. 

Thanks for the comments of your games , i really love blood knights but the price and the old model keeps me away from them , would like to see your list against a heavy shooting army like KO or something like that.

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Don’t know if this has been asked, but if Neferata casts dark mist on a unit of skeletons, do they get a 5+ save with their shields even if attacked by something with tens?

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On 2/7/2020 at 8:53 PM, Pazour said:

If we have determined that allying in a Dolorous Guard Battalion would be match play legal, what do people think about adding that to a Court of Nulahmia list?

Solves an issue of Neferata being too easy to kill as a General, with 20 extra virtual wounds, and you've got 4 deathly invocations a turn to keep those Hexwraiths coming back over and over.

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Orb of Enchantment
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Bloodseeker Palanquin (300)
- Artefact: Oubliette Arcana
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
10 x Zombies (60)

Units
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies

Battalions
Court of Nulahmia (150)
The Dolorous Guard (120)
- Allies

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 92 

Thought about that but decided to scrap this idea. It is nice that neferata lasts longer but you lose so much punch. This way oponent will just go for the dragon and you lose damage. And neferata loses efectivnes later just because you run out of command points. 

Also the dact that enemy focus Neferata means that dragons are safe for 1 round. With your modification they would focus that one dragon since it is easier to kill then neferata and then you lose to objectives.

There is a big diference between 4 and 5 drops.

I think better idea would be to play standard court but exchanging bloodseeker + court for hexwraiths, guard and 10 extra chainrasp (10,10,20)

 

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1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

Don’t know if this has been asked, but if Neferata casts dark mist on a unit of skeletons, do they get a 5+ save with their shields even if attacked by something with tens?

They will just have 6+, even if oponent has no rend. 

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1 minute ago, ZLee Syn said:

They will just have 6+, even if oponent has no rend. 

I thought if it doesn't have rend, they get +1 to their save. (ie. 5+).

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Just now, Mark Williams said:

I thought if it doesn't have rend, they get +1 to their save. (ie. 5+).

Yea, but unlike zombie dragon and his shield, you get +1 and no 5+ save. And ethereal efects dont allow any modifications. Even positive.

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1 minute ago, ZLee Syn said:

Yea, but unlike zombie dragon and his shield, you get +1 and no 5+ save. And ethereal efects dont allow any modifications. Even positive.

The spell doesn't convey the Ethereal keyword though, it just says "ignore rend".

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1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

The spell doesn't convey the Ethereal keyword though, it just says "ignore rend".

No, the spell says "ignore modifiers". Just like ethereal amulet or nighthaunt ability.

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2 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

No, the spell says "ignore modifiers". Just like ethereal amulet or nighthaunt ability.

Then in this case rend modifier becomes "-" so the skellos gets +1 save due to the shields.

 

edit: It says 'you must ignore modifiers (positive or negative) when making save rolls for the unit.

In this case: I don't know. Shield would be a positive modifier I guess, so it's gonna be 6+?

Edited by BoneHeart

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9 minutes ago, BoneHeart said:

Then in this case rend modifier becomes "-" so the skellos gets +1 save due to the shields.

No. Rend characteristic stays the same. This ability let you ignore rend efect (modification of 1) but atacks still have rend charasteristic. Shield gives +1 if rend charasteristic is "-". 

And even if enemy has no rend, you have only 6+ save because that +1 to save is a modification. And you have to ignore those.

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On 2/11/2020 at 9:15 AM, ZLee Syn said:

If we have determined that allying in a Dolorous Guard Battalion would be match play legal, what do people think about adding that to a Court of Nulahmia list?

I've been toying with this idea (i.e. adding the Dolorous Guard Battalion to a LoB list) since I got that White Dwarf issue in my letterbox. It is definitely legal, albeit - annoingly enough - Azyr refuses to acknowledge the existence of the new Nighthaunt battalions. Warscroll builder does the trick (switching the Alliance  [LoB-Nighthaunt-LoB] mid-way, which is still sub-optimal, but hey...).

The idea of having a nigh unkillable Neferata is attractive - but not as attractive as to make a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon your general. We are talking 14 wounds to start with, D6 wound back once per game via the Chalice of Blood, 1 wound back every combat phase he kills anything, Vile Transference on top, 20 wounds worth of Hexwraiths (no, I don't think it's worth taking more than 2 units of 5, this is a rather costly endavour points-wise already...) which you can heal via Deathly Invocation (that's on the VLoZD Warscroll, so it does apply even when dealing with allies such as the HexW in the Dolorous Guard!) and Vile Transference as well, and a 6+ shrug to top it off. I still have to try it out (I splashed some cash to get myself 10 Dreadblade Harrows and 10 Grimghast Reapers to convert into HexW, as I hate the models... I'm almost done with them, though!), but seriously... ah, and I am not done yet. Take Aura of Dark Majesty as Command Trait (-1 to hit in combat) and the Gryph-feather charm (-1 to hit flat), and there you have it: unadulterated cheese (finally!) to rock our beloved LoB!

And - with the battallion we get an extra command point and an extra artefact... what's filthier than a VLoZD with the GFCharm? Why, TWO VLoZDs with the GFCharm, obviously.  Add some Blood Knights into the mix and you have a list that not only kills eveyrthing it touches, but it also has a majestic staying power. It can take on the new Tzeench, folks - that's how arrogant I feel at the moment. 

I recently came third at a (small) tournament (with a narrative twist - not a phenomenal achievement, but hey...) with a list including Neferata, Vhordrai and a VLoZD: I do believe that with the addition of the Dolorous Guard, LoB has now the potential to threathen the top tables... come on folks: for Our Beautiful Queen... FORWARD!

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4 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

I've been toying with this idea (i.e. adding the Dolorous Guard Battalion to a LoB list) since I got that White Dwarf issue in my letterbox. It is definitely legal, albeit - annoingly enough - Azyr refuses to acknowledge the existence of the new Nighthaunt battalions. Warscroll builder does the trick (switching the Alliance  [LoB-Nighthaunt-LoB] mid-way, which is still sub-optimal, but hey...).

The idea of having a nigh unkillable Neferata is attractive - but not as attractive as to make a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon your general. We are talking 14 wounds to start with, D6 wound back once per game via the Chalice of Blood, 1 wound back every combat phase he kills anything, Vile Transference on top, 20 wounds worth of Hexwraiths (no, I don't think it's worth taking more than 2 units of 5, this is a rather costly endavour points-wise already...) which you can heal via Deathly Invocation (that's on the VLoZD Warscroll, so it does apply even when dealing with allies such as the HexW in the Dolorous Guard!) and Vile Transference as well, and a 6+ shrug to top it off. I still have to try it out (I splashed some cash to get myself 10 Dreadblade Harrows and 10 Grimghast Reapers to convert into HexW, as I hate the models... I'm almost done with them, though!), but seriously... ah, and I am not done yet. Take Aura of Dark Majesty as Command Trait (-1 to hit in combat) and the Gryph-feather charm (-1 to hit flat), and there you have it: unadulterated cheese (finally!) to rock our beloved LoB!

And - with the battallion we get an extra command point and an extra artefact... what's filthier than a VLoZD with the GFCharm? Why, TWO VLoZDs with the GFCharm, obviously.  Add some Blood Knights into the mix and you have a list that not only kills eveyrthing it touches, but it also has a majestic staying power. It can take on the new Tzeench, folks - that's how arrogant I feel at the moment. 

I recently came third at a (small) tournament (with a narrative twist - not a phenomenal achievement, but hey...) with a list including Neferata, Vhordrai and a VLoZD: I do believe that with the addition of the Dolorous Guard, LoB has now the potential to threathen the top tables... come on folks: for Our Beautiful Queen... FORWARD!

you cannot have 2 gryph feather charms and hexwraiths wouldnt get 6+ negation. And I feel like this batalion is better for something that is normaly squishy like neferata/mannfred. 
Also I now play court of nulahmia list and out of the 3 games today I lost most of my models to mortal wounds and shooting. For most shooting ethereal amulet is better and for mortals gryph feather charm doesnt help.

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8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

you cannot have 2 gryph feather charms

Of course I can.

8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

hexwraiths wouldnt get 6+ negation

Sure, but the VLoZD would - and you can still get them back via Detahly Invocation.

8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

For most shooting ethereal amulet is better

There are quite a few threads about this... the Amulet is definitely better against high rend attacks, but the Charm is positively better against volume of attacks. Shooting tends to be more about the latter than the former, I'd say. Running to VLoZDs with two Amulets is also a strong build, though.

8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

for mortals gryph feather charm doesnt help.

Nor does the Amulet. 

But the Dolorus Guard does help against both shooting and mortals, passing wound and/or mortal wounds on the HeW on 2+. Squishy things will still be blown away by, say, a Tzeench double turn within 18" of their casters or a MW-heavy Cities build.

Edited by Thamalys

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30 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

you cannot have 2 gryph feather charms

I do apologise, @ZLee Syn, I might stand corrected on this one... not that clear to me. I have always assumed that the two identical artefacts on two different (non-named) Heroes would have been perfectly ok, as I've seen this happening in more than one tournament... even looking through the LVO 2020 lists I found one with a double artefact (see below)... however, digging in the core rules I found that "an army may not include duplicates of the same artefact of power" (page 242). On the other hand, both Azyr and Warscroll Builder are ok with duplicated artefacts (I know, I know, they're not meant to be flawless). Now I am mightily confused... any thoughts?

LVO_FEC_2020.png

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30 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

Of course I can.

Sure, but the VLoZD would - and you can still get them back via Detahly Invocation.

There are quite a few threads about this... the Amulet is definitely better against high rend attacks, but the Charm is positively better against volume of attacks. Shooting tends to be more about the latter than the former, I'd say. Running to VLoZDs with two Amulets is also a strong build, though.

Nor does the Amulet. 

But the Dolorus Guard does help against both shooting and mortals, passing wound and/or mortal wounds on the HeW on 2+. Squishy things will still be blown away by, say, a Tzeench double turn within 18" of their casters or a MW-heavy Cities build.

check core rules page 17 for artefacts of power.
From my experiance most shooting I encounter have rend (KO and skaven are only armies with heavier shooting I meet) but that is obviously local meta dependant. Also amulet works better for me because I can combine it with enemy hiting on 6s. 
Also at that poijnt you are paying 740+ points for basicaly one mode. With this pricetag it has to win you the game. If your dragon cost 800 points becasue it is unkillable then your oponent will just ignere it and win. There is literaly no reason to try to kill it at that point. On the other hand neferata cannot be just ignored because she cann support others even if enemy ignores her

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9 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

I do apologise, @ZLee Syn, I might stand corrected on this one... not that clear to me. I have always assumed that the two identical artefacts on two different (non-named) Heroes would have been perfectly ok, as I've seen this happening in more than one tournament... even looking through the LVO 2020 lists I found one with a double artefact (see below)... however, digging in the core rules I found that "an army may not include duplicates of the same artefact of power" (page 242). On the other hand, both Azyr and Warscroll Builder are ok with duplicated artefacts (I know, I know, they're not meant to be flawless). Now I am mightily confused... any thoughts?

LVO_FEC_2020.png

That happens. I wasnt sure either when you wrote It and went to check that into rules too. Simple answer Is that this list is against the rules. I thought that flesh eathers had 2 piles of artefact and one of them was in both (so it could have been argued to be 2 diferent artefacts) but it is not this one.
That beeing said I have seen many wrong builds on big tournaments. Mostly lady O. as ally in legion of x List happend many times. 

With these things, always go by the rules and FAQs. Builders and apps are sometimes wrong. In case builder and rules say something diferently riles are the one to go with. 

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8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

Also amulet works better for me because I can combine it with enemy hiting on 6s. 

You mean via Neferata's CA? Sometimes you need 4 CPs to get those pesky elite units to hit you on 6s...

8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

If your dragon cost 800 points becasue it is unkillable then your oponent will just ignere it and win.

VLoZD and Hexwraiths move 14" and 12", respectively... your opponent can try to ignore them, but they can either (1.) sit on a objective for 5 turns straight (Places of Arcane Power, Knife to the Heart, Duality of Death, Relocation Orb... with a beast like that in play...) and/or (2.) move forward and kill most things in one go (a LoB VLoZD with his own CA switched on can take on a lot of things...)

8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

On the other hand neferata cannot be just ignored because she cann support others even if enemy ignores her

Don't get me wrong, I almost always try to squeeze Neferata into my LoB lists, but she can't stay around for long... and you're right, the Dolorous Guard can fix that. However, I still think she might go down with not too much effort even with the Guard to support her, and her CA, while sometimes utterly hilarious, costs you a ton of CPs, goes down in range when bracketed and most importantly of all implies that you have to have two substantial chunks of your list within 15" to take full advantage of that. My LoB lists are very much elite-like (which poses a problem in terms of bodies, but that's a story for another day...), and I just can't afford to have my VLoZD or my Bloodknights close enough to Neferata when I am facing armies with lot of potential for board control (and there are quite a few of these around). Finally, no command trait to be leveraged with Nef in... very sad, given how strong they are.

6 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

That beeing said I have seen many wrong builds on big tournaments.

True that... alright, here're two possible Dolorous Guard builds, one with Nef and a VLoZD, the other one with two VLoZDs... food for thoughts!

LoB.png

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43 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

You mean via Neferata's CA? Sometimes you need 4 CPs to get those pesky elite units to hit you on 6s...

VLoZD and Hexwraiths move 14" and 12", respectively... your opponent can try to ignore them, but they can either (1.) sit on a objective for 5 turns straight (Places of Arcane Power, Knife to the Heart, Duality of Death, Relocation Orb... with a beast like that in play...) and/or (2.) move forward and kill most things in one go (a LoB VLoZD with his own CA switched on can take on a lot of things...)

Don't get me wrong, I almost always try to squeeze Neferata into my LoB lists, but she can't stay around for long... and you're right, the Dolorous Guard can fix that. However, I still think she might go down with not too much effort even with the Guard to support her, and her CA, while sometimes utterly hilarious, costs you a ton of CPs, goes down in range when bracketed and most importantly of all implies that you have to have two substantial chunks of your list within 15" to take full advantage of that. My LoB lists are very much elite-like (which poses a problem in terms of bodies, but that's a story for another day...), and I just can't afford to have my VLoZD or my Bloodknights close enough to Neferata when I am facing armies with lot of potential for board control (and there are quite a few of these around). Finally, no command trait to be leveraged with Nef in... very sad, given how strong they are.

True that... alright, here're two possible Dolorous Guard builds, one with Nef and a VLoZD, the other one with two VLoZDs... food for thoughts!

LoB.png

Out of the last 9 games I played there were 4 decided by the fact that one player ignored/didnt ignore tough character.

First: legion of blood against khorne.  Just deployed to oposite side and won on points while 3 of his bloodthristers did nothing untlil he couldnt win
Second: nurgle std. Killed all his marauders so he cannot beat me on models near objectives. His 2 warmamoths killed like 30 ghosts for first 3 turns and then I just fed him dragons because I needed just one more turn.
Third: stormcast eternals with stardrake (2+ save, reroll of 1 and scales for mortals). Kept him debuffed and locked into meaningless combat for whole game while I killed everything else he had.
fourth: KO. Basicaly a lost game. In his second turn I had half of my army. He could have won If he ported his ship onto point. With that he would won even if my last dragon and palanquin killed everything else in his army . He decided to stay and destroyed palanquin + wounded the dragon.  In my turn I charged the ironclad and lowered it so It couldnt fly high anymore. my 2 units of ghosts took hold of objectives while he was pointlesly trying to kill the dragon with 3+ ethereal + rerolls of 1. Even if he had killed it he wouldnt be able to get to points qwuick enough without flay high and with my ghosts blockig him

My guard lob list would look like this:
Neferata (Overwhelming dread)
Dragon (ethereal, transference)
Dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions)
20 chainrasp
10 chainrasp
10 chainrasp
5 hexwraiths
5 hexwraiths
guard
extra CP

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