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AoS 2 - Legion of Blood Discussion


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15 minutes ago, Piikalo1 said:

Is walking Death not enough of a dmg boost to warrant a take? In my meta Im thinking of this as the trait because things need to die or I tend to get blown out like stonehorns and the like. Whats peoples take on this trait? Is it not as potent as I’m thinking?

I assume on a VLoZD? Is a decent trait, however: A. with 4(5) attacks only for the lance(sword), 6+ are quite rare and; B. what truly makes a VLoZD a killy Hero is his own CA. As such, I’d say is usually best to take Aura of Immortal Majesty (-1 to hit in combat) to boost his survivability, and rely on his CA to delete most things instead. Having said that, in the double VLoZD list I posted yesterday I have an artefact to spare... if you pick, say, the Amberglaive (+1 to hit, +1” range to a melee weapon) and pair it with Walking Death you’re now dealing mortal wounds on 5+ to hit. Sweet. Add in the CA (re-roll all failed hits) and suddenly this trait is worth taking, I’d say. 

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15 hours ago, Piikalo1 said:

Is walking Death not enough of a dmg boost to warrant a take? In my meta Im thinking of this as the trait because things need to die or I tend to get blown out like stonehorns and the like. Whats peoples take on this trait? Is it not as potent as I’m thinking?

Also if you have problems with stonehorns you can always use orb of enchantment

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Hi all,

I have a 1500 point small tourney coming up soon and wanted to try a LoB list for the first time I usually go LoN, LoNight or Nighthaunt .... now before anyone mentions, yes i know there's no Blood Knights here, but that's simply because i don't have any models..... yet!  I'm about to sell off another 40k army to fund more AoS and will be looking to buy something to use as Blood Knights (not paying the stupid prices GW wants for them! so looking at the good old Chaos Knights conversion)

So I wanted to run this list as LoB mainly for the +1 attack to vamps and the command trait, the -1 Bravery is just some nice icing.  If anyone can suggest a better legion to use or tweaks to this list i'm all ears.

Leaders

General - VLoZD, Aura of Dark Majesty, Etherel Amulet, Amethystine Pinions

Mannfred Mortarch of Night - Vile Transference

Battleline

30 x Chainrasp Horde (couldn't fit in 40 Skeletons so opted for 30 Chainrasp's instead)

5 x Dire Wolves

5x Dire Wolves

Other

20 x Grimghast Reapers

Endless Spells

Suffocating Gravetide (I had 20 pts spare!)

 

So basic tactics are VLoZD and Manfred tag team to smash into the enemy line/HQ's, Chainrasps to tar pit, Reapers to go after troublesome units, and wolves to go for objectives or act as screen if needed.

The spell is simply there as the list came to 1480 and can use it once the Vamp's are in range to cause havoc in a back line.

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15 minutes ago, Rabidweasel said:

Doh! Sorry completely forgot you can't take Mannfred in LoB! Back to the drawing board!

You can drop wolfs and separate chainrasps to exchange mannfred dor vhordrei. Or maybe 10 rasps for second zombie dragon? Dont know which models you own 

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Sadly don't have any other zombie dragon models yet.  I have nightmare/winged Vamp models, some necromancers, Foot Wright King and a Coven throne (well nagash as well.... but can't really use him!)

Thinking of taking a Vamp on Nightmare to buff the VLoZD with the +1 attack command ability so he'll get +2 with that and LoB Bonus.  Then i'm torn between a third vamp to babysit the battleline, which i'll probably drop the chainrasps in favour of 40 spear skeletons. Or a Necro.

That leaves me with 20points spare, or 40 if i drop the gravetide.  Or 30(50) points spare if i go necro.

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On 2/16/2020 at 7:21 PM, Thamalys said:

I assume on a VLoZD? Is a decent trait, however: A. with 4(5) attacks only for the lance(sword), 6+ are quite rare and; B. what truly makes a VLoZD a killy Hero is his own CA. As such, I’d say is usually best to take Aura of Immortal Majesty (-1 to hit in combat) to boost his survivability, and rely on his CA to delete most things instead. Having said that, in the double VLoZD list I posted yesterday I have an artefact to spare... if you pick, say, the Amberglaive (+1 to hit, +1” range to a melee weapon) and pair it with Walking Death you’re now dealing mortal wounds on 5+ to hit. Sweet. Add in the CA (re-roll all failed hits) and suddenly this trait is worth taking, I’d say. 

Excuse a newcomer, but what is CA? Command Ability is Endless Legions, I assume that is not what you meant.

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9 hours ago, Rabidweasel said:

Sadly don't have any other zombie dragon models yet.  I have nightmare/winged Vamp models, some necromancers, Foot Wright King and a Coven throne (well nagash as well.... but can't really use him!)

Thinking of taking a Vamp on Nightmare to buff the VLoZD with the +1 attack command ability so he'll get +2 with that and LoB Bonus.  Then i'm torn between a third vamp to babysit the battleline, which i'll probably drop the chainrasps in favour of 40 spear skeletons. Or a Necro.

That leaves me with 20points spare, or 40 if i drop the gravetide.  Or 30(50) points spare if i go necro.

+1 attack CAs work at their best on big units - my favourite example being big blobs of Grimghast Reapers in LoN. The VLoZD, un-buffed, struggles with the fact that both of the Dragon’s melee profiles hit on 4+. Adding +1 attack is way less efficient than using the VLoZD own CA. In fact, on a VLoZD in LoB, full health (with sword, but similar arguments apply for the lance), against a 4+ save:

- No buffs: 7.56 damage

- +1 Attack on each melee weapon, dragon included (VL CA): 9 damage

- Re-rolling all hits, (VLoZD CA): 10.96 damage

- Both CAs...  13.06 - juicy, but do you really have 2 CPs to invest?

As it stands, with one VLoZD only and no Blood Knights, heading toward LoS is probably a better way forward if compared to LoB? Just a thought...

Edited by Thamalys
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13 minutes ago, N.I.B. said:

Excuse a newcomer, but what is CA? Command Ability is Endless Legions, I assume that is not what you meant.

That’s what I meant indeed. Endless Legions is an additional CA that is granted to any Legions of Nagash General. Many Heroes have their own CAs, and unless specified otherwise CAs from the Allegiance (such as Endless Legions) and CAs from the Warscrolls are not mutually exclusive.

For instance: a Vanpire Lord as a General of a Legion of Blood army will get to use both Endless Legions as well as his own CA from his Warscroll (Blood Feast). You can use them both in the same round/turn, and even more than once - if you’re lucky enough to have enough CPs, of course 😜

Makes sense?

 

Edited by Thamalys
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On 2/20/2020 at 4:19 AM, Rabidweasel said:

... looking to buy something to use as Blood Knights (not paying the stupid prices GW wants for them! so looking at the good old Chaos Knights conversion)

Chaos Knights with the Vampire shield/banner upgrades look really good. Maybe throw in a few after market vampire heads to taste. Ive seen the Black Knight mounts used for the Blood Knighs horses, with the Maurader bodies and Vampire upgrades too. That is a bit closer to the price of the Blood Knights though. I have a set of Metal Blood Knights and honestly the models are all kinds of garbage. Customization is way better.

Edited by Sactownbri
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Hello guys. Yesterday and tomorow I attended Prague Open. It was basicaly my first big tournament. I started playing little bit more then a year ago but I wasnt playing that much and had a break for three months from september to december last year. In december I jumped back to playing and started practising my new list. I managed to play 15 games before the tournament so I wasnt completely new to this list but still I wasnt expecting anything big. My goal was to not be in lower half. With the introduction done, here is my list

Neferata (overwhelming dread)
Vampire lord on zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference)
Vampire lord on zombie dragon (orb of enchantment. pinions)
Bloodseeker (amarathine orb)
3*10 chainrasps
shards of varsomething 
extra CP
court of nulahmia
and my hidden agendas were slay, retake, conserve, antient heirloom and dominate

First game was against Nurgle. Very interesting list with glottkin. 30 plaguebearers, plague furnace and 40 monks + some blightkings and flies. The battleplan was battle for the pass. I chose dominate for this one. I started and move to points, Popped neferatas ability 2 times and let him play. He charged my ghosts on one side with blightkings and plaguemonks and other side was charged by plaguebearers. With 125 atacks he only killed 7 ghosts adn I killed most of the plaguebearers.  In my turn I finished plaguebearers and damaged blightkings. He managed to sneak up 2 flies and hero on fly to neferata and damaged her to 2 health. And my orb dragon lost 12 wounds. Here I made a mistake and instead of finishing the flies with neferata and bloodseeker while losing neferata, I decided to retrearback to the point. My orb dragon retreated to his point in the back and second dragon killed his only model there. In his turn his flies killed neferata and bloodseeker (I forgot that neferata has +4 move so I moved her not as far as i could have) and monks finished one of my ghosts. sadly there was one plaguemonk left in range on his objective so even If I destroey those blightkings I wouldnt have taken it so I just hold it. I thought he would need plaguemonks to destroy last ghosts on my objective so I can take that next turn but he moved them back to secure that point and flies rolled pretty well and took over my point. At that moment I couldnt win on points so I took damaged dragon to the edge to deny him kill points and  slay (if he had it which he did).  Overall very fun game and fun army to play against. Maybe it would have been better if I had more space to use move advantage (wide instead of long table) but I lost it to myself. 

What I learned: if you are winning on points. Its sometimes a good idea to sacrifice more valuable units just so enemy his less units to get objectives back.   

Second game was against KO and it was duality of death. This is one of the better battleplans for this army in my opinion because everything can score there.  He had Ironclad, 2 gunhaulers, 10 thunderers, endrinmaster with suit, 20 arcanauts (in one unit), navigator (or khemist, not sure) and endringers (6 I think). Again, dominate would have been perfect but I alread used that and rest of them were rly bad here. I chosed slay since there was slight chance I could maybe kill a small hero somewhere and rest of them were very unlikely. He deployed to the left and I deployed ghosts to grave, ethereal dragon to the left and rest to right. I started and moved to objectives and pull out all the ghostson right. Ho moved and shoot at my ethereal dragon but only did 3 wounds thanks for rerolls saves of 1 from comand ability and 6+ negation terain near the point. I rolled my spells and I did get ethereal and +10 move on my other dragon. I thought that charing to the other side of the table would help my other dragon since he wouldnt be able to shoot him with everything but only with half of the army.  This was very big mistake since I underestimated his damage (and most importantly mortal wounds) output. My dragon did nothing and he got few wounds back. He used and artefact that gives mortal wounds until he rolls a 1 so he did like 7 and with all the shooting he killed both dragons. after that I moved my ghosts further away to block his fly high. He destroyed 8 ghosts and did like 3 damage in total to bloodseeker and neferata. Then he got a doubleturn and killed neferata with shooting and then finished bloodseeker exactly with the last wound in close combat. Since I did move all ghosts away i didnt have any one near the point (i should have thought of that) so I lost the objective. Then I reclaimed it with ghosts and got a double turn so I tied on points and he finished the ghosts. Tied on points but 1910 to 0 on killpoints so only a minor loss.  Again, I lost it to myself (for sure). Would have won If I stayed with other dragon on my point and stick to the plan I had. Maybe I shouldnt have rolled for the +5 move because that rly baited me :D. Also I should have extend one ghost unit to the point to have even more units there. 

What I learned: sometimes it is best to stay still and let the enemy shoot at you instead of doing charges when you can. 

Third game was against ogors. And if last battleplan was one of the best for me, this one was I think the worst one. Blood and glory. He had 2 stonehorns. 12 gluttons, butcher and alot of cats in ambush with hunter. Chosed retake since I thought he would get one objecitve at some point or I would get to one of his eventualy.  I let him start but he moved only a little bit. I moved slightly forvard while keeping 2 ghosts to defend points against ambush as best as I could. He moved alittle bit. I popped neferatas ability 3 times and charged with all behemonts. Killed all gluttons and some sabers. Didnt roll a doubleturn so He walked to the points with stonehorns, brong cats from ambush, killed the ghosts units and got both my points. At least I get more killpoints Then last game :D. I guess I needed to be more agresive since I couldnt have stop him from getting one objective with sabre ambush. But still it was an uphill battle I think

What I learned: on blood and golry, I need to bring the fight to the enemy and pray instead of waiting for right moment

My 4th game was at table 24 out of 27 so at least It couldnt get much worse :D. My enemy should have been another KO player but when I came Judge told me that they had to switch me up with someone else. It was quite a rollercoster since I was happy that I can maybe go fight with something, then i discover that my enemy plays tzeentch. And then I discover that it is pink horror spam tzeentch instead of usual flamers. 30 pink horrors, kairos, 20 blue horrors, 20 brimstones, gaunt and blue scribes I think. Battleplan was focal points. I chosed Antient heirloom. This oponent wasnt very experianced so I got quite a big point lead early since he was very defeinsive. Game was decided in turn 3 but we played turn 4 since we had some time left just for fun (and kill points :D ). I think I did more then 160 damage that game but in the end he still have 150+ wounds on the table and alot of summon points for next one. My oponent was very fun and it was very fun game. After the game he told me that this is his first tournament so he isnt quite good at scoring points. I noticed that too, that here players were much more focusing on points then killing stuff. A perfect win since enemy didnt manage to get his agenda while I had still one dragon alive. Both of us have 520 kill points I think.

What I learned: If enemy is unkillable, try to force him where you want him to be. 

My last game was was against sylvaneth and battleplan was gift from heavens. Enemy had 2 spirits of durthu, antient treeman, archrevent, 6 kurnoths with scythes, 6 kurnoths with bows and 3 units of 5 revenants. I let him start, he did almost nothing. I play, and move alittle bit up. I lost the roll of and he give me a doubleturn. objective fall on right side (our aries are mostly left-middle but I have ghosts on the right). I moved my orb dragon with ethereal from neferata and kill 5 revenants.His objective fall on right, He shoots at him and do 3 wounds. Then he get a doubleturn and do 10 wounds to neferata and charge my dragon with both durthus and 6 kurnots. I use orb on one (finaly I use it :D )but it doesnt matter since he kils me just with kurnoths (+1 to atacks and they go 2 times). I learned from first game and so I charged one durthu with neferata, 10 chainrasps and bloodseeker while I charge second durthu with ethereal dragon. Neferata whiffs alot (thinking about it i forget rerolls from batalion here, first time I could have used that :D ) and he splits his atacks but doesnt do any damage thanks to  shards and other -1 to hit stacking. And I finish it with bloodseeker while the other one is on one health. I get a double turn, finish spirit with magic, then charge kurnoths with dragon and bloodseeker. 1 is left. He charge bloodseeker with revenants and I kill them. His shooting failed to kill neferata but archrevenant charge her and finaly kills her. At this point he conceeds becasue he cannot get my objective and he cannot get more bodies to his objective to hold it. I did manage to finish my last hidden agends (conserve) but I couldnt stop his since that was sacrifice. Fun game with many twists and turns. Also his army was beautifuů. I am not that great painter but that was form me the best looking army of the tournament, especialy the concept was extremly interesting (they were sylvaneth in winter under snow). Shold have played little bit more agresively on my second round or little bit more defensively on my 3rd but I forgot that he can give me doubleturn since that is usualy not done but in this situation it was 100 percent correct play.

What I learned: remember that sometimes giving away doubleturn is a good idea.

With the last 2 wins + the fact that I was doing quite well on denying and getting agendas I managed to get to 27th place out of 53 players which finished (which is exactly the half so great :D )

 
I dont know if I was unlucky or meta shifted but there arent that many scary expensive heroes where orb is that valuable (there were, just I missed them. Need to check lists to see how many percent of lists had them) so I will consider replacement. I started practising this list before neferata went down in points and thats why I have shards there. They were ok (used them in 3 games). With the experiances from the tournament I will drop shards and play 20 chainrasps + 2x10 zombies. Extra bodies will help alot and I didnt need extra move on at least 1 chainrasp unit whole tournament since I ether pulled them from the grave or I just left them guarding points.  Also I will change amarathine orb on bloidseeker to spirit gale (3 dices, if any are double -1 to hit)

Thanks to everyone who read this this far :D 

Edited by ZLee Syn
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1 hour ago, ZLee Syn said:

Can you provide vording of that ability? I dont know what you are exactly refering too.

Quote

 

Orb of Enchantment: To glance into the swirling
depths of this crystal orb is to become hypnotised by
alluring visions and half-glimpsed futures.

Once per battle, at the start of the combat phase, you
can pick an enemy HERO within 3" of the bearer. In
that combat phase, that enemy hero may not pile in,
attack or use abilities.

 

 

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Sounds like the tyrants of blood batallion from the khorne army where bloodthirsters get to attack in sequence.

It gets past things like locus of diversion, but I don't think it would get past the orb (though, I'm not sure)

Edited by Kaime
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On 2/27/2020 at 2:31 PM, Kaime said:

Sounds like the tyrants of blood batallion from the khorne army where bloodthirsters get to attack in sequence.

It gets past things like locus of diversion, but I don't think it would get past the orb (though, I'm not sure)

Then you cannot atack with the one targeted by the orb. I know that there is an artefact that says you atack first. If it says that you atack at the start of combat phase, then if it is the khorne player turn he atacks with it (and rest of the bloodthristers) before you can activate the orb. 

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4 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

Then you cannot atack with the one targeted by the orb. I know that there is an artefact that says you atack first. If it says that you atack at the start of combat phase, then if it is the khorne player turn he atacks with it (and rest of the bloodthristers) before you can activate the orb. 

Are you sure about this? And thank's for the description of your tournament. I only don't undertand your battle vs ogor mawtribes. As a player of both teams, i suggest you to use the chainrasps as screen and wait her charges. If he had charged your screens with the frostlord or gluttons, you would be kill these with a dragons charge (the dragon with the orb vs one frostlord is mandatory) and the debuff of Neferata is excellent.

 

For other band, anyone knows when we will have mount traits and better battalions for our vampires? And solve our problem with always use Neferata as general. I think that we need the orb+etheral in dragons + aura of dark majesty (or the excellent Soulblight trait Mist Form). 

Edited by Sartxac
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4 hours ago, Sartxac said:

Are you sure about this? And thank's for the description of your tournament. I only don't undertand your battle vs ogor mawtribes. As a player of both teams, i suggest you to use the chainrasps as screen and wait her charges. If he had charged your screens with the frostlord or gluttons, you would be kill these with a dragons charge (the dragon with the orb vs one frostlord is mandatory) and the debuff of Neferata is excellent.

 

For other band, anyone knows when we will have mount traits and better battalions for our vampires? And solve our problem with always use Neferata as general. I think that we need the orb+etheral in dragons + aura of dark majesty (or the excellent Soulblight trait Mist Form). 

I am not sure because I dont know the exact wording. But If you have multiple triggers at the same time (such as start of the combat phase), then first the active player do his in any order and then the reactive player his in any order. If that artefact says at the start of combat phase then it is ath the same time as the orb and so active player deals with that first. On the other hand if that just say, "before first unit is selected to fight, this model can fight" (or omething like that) than orb can stop that since it is not happening at the same time but the atack is later then the orb trigger.
And for the ogre game. I could have played it better. But unlike other 2 games it took me a long time to find out a strategy that might have worked. Maybe I would have come with it there if I wasnt so tired (I finished painting my army 4 hours before the tournament :D  ), if I wasnt suprised by my GF comming to watch (that was lovely :D ) or if I was more serious about the game and not just joking with my oponent (he was amazing and very fun). Also this was actualy my first time playing this battleplan ever (dont know how did it happen) so I wasnt going there with solid plan. The problem was the ambush. I was trying to both protect the points from ambush and from frontal engage and that is not possible with the amount of models I had. And I should have known that. What I should have done was to defend only one point. That way I could make sure that the ambush and fromtal engage wouldnt get him to the point even with the 3 pile in after charge (that lost me one point, h e charged sabers and stonehorn to ghosts, stonehorn killed them but wasnt near the point. But then sabers could pile in since they charged so they got there). After 3rd turn ambush would be no problem And I could get one stonehorn with orb, then take over one of his with my high move and win on killpoints since he would be basicaly half army down at that point. My inexperianced showd here and thats why I lost. With the sudden death this scenario has, it requires very diferent aproach and I didnt play it that way. Next time I will know

 

Edit: the loss against ogres was diferent then those against nurgle and KO. There one bad move lost me the game. But against ogres there wasnt a single mistake that lost me the game. The whole strategy was wrong.

Edited by ZLee Syn
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Hi all,

Managed to source some chaos knight i'll be converting into Blood Knights.  Was wondering what people's thoughts are on this list? My concern is the lack of battleline which could cause me issues, and i know i'm going to be facing some Tzeentch armies this time round so not looking forward to the shooting!  1500 points is tricky to get hard hitting things into a list!

Leaders

VLoZD - General - Ethereal Amulet - Aura of Dark Magistracy - Pinions

VL - Flying Horror - Vile Transference 

Battleline

20 x Chainrasps

5 x Dire Wolves

5x Dire Wolves

Other

10 x Blood Knights

5 x Blood Knights

This is 1480/1500 So with the spare 20 i was going to throw in a Suffocating Gravetide.

Possible tweaks are take the VL on a nightmare to run better with the knights, but wanted them to be able to get VT off on the VLoZD so being able to jump over possible LoS blocking terrain is useful.

I could drop 5 Blood Knights and take 40 Chainrasps or Skeletons, that leaves me with an odd 100 points so not sure what i could squeeze in with that?

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