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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

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It is nice that I can make a slake fray that follows my couple keepers as they spread their influence in my narrative. I’m working at converting enlightened. Even though they can’t go in a depraved drove, they fit a snake theme I want. 

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2 minutes ago, carnith said:

I’m working at converting enlightened. Even though they can’t go in a depraved drove, they fit a snake theme I want. 

I'm sad that Hellstriders lost their -1 to hit banner because just once I wanted to play Enlightened with a -1 to hit aura. 

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20 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

This is 100% true, I primarily play BoC but have been itching to shift them to a god specific allegiance and HoS is a godsend (no pun intended). I also think people are overlooking the value of Chaos Knights in HoS. 

Just for a question:
What do you see is the value of Chaos Knights in HoS? Is it the 6's generating more hits thing? 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

What do you see is the value of Chaos Knights in HoS? Is it the 6's generating more hits thing? 

Nah, I don't care so much for their offense. What I like about them is they can perform two roles really admirably, first they're a very effective character screen, 10 can fully encircle a keeper in such a way as to prevent evocators, morsarr guard, or long reach attacks from hitting the keeper. That's a 30 wound 4+/5++ (against MWs) unit, they can really take a punch which I think the army lacks the ability to do otherwise. And second they're great at mauling screens and helping to create lanes for your characters to play in. TL;DR - they're a big foot print durable unit with reasonable combat output. 

Edited by SwampHeart

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I don’t see chaos knights being huge. They don’t roll enough dice and even with we had mortals that could double pile in, produce more attacks due to the old rule not being h modified, and getting +1 to hit. Granted it’s less command points but they can’t double pile in and you need a mortal caster instead of a cheaper hero. 

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I think the greater daemons are less worried about gav  bomb since you can dump them to the end of combat, removing a good amount of the threat and with a possible double pile in, you can remove most of the threat early.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, carnith said:

I think the greater daemons are less worried about gav  bomb since you can dump them to the end of combat, removing a good amount of the threat and with a possible double pile in, you can remove most of the threat early.

Competent SCE players aren't going to tag the greater demon, they're going to either charge just out of Locus range and then pile in to zap range or start using double threat zaps to make up for the fact that the locus can only target one unit. 

And again you're looking at Knights as an offensive choice, we don't need that, we have plenty of choice for hitters. What HoS lacks, entirely, is anything that can take a punch or do any kind of grinding. Knights bring that to the table with enough speed to ensure we get the lanes of access we want. I've already played a game where using knights to circle off my Keeper kept her safe from melee alpha strikes (because you can only stop one of the GKoTGs from biting you before you swing) long enough for her to take better positioning and swing me the game. 

Edited by SwampHeart

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Posted (edited)

Double post

Edited by carnith

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Posted (edited)

well locus is 6”. So if they wanna charge and possibly zap us they would be in locus range anyways

 

edit: the main point though was the keeper requires less of a screen since it can mess with activations. Yes it isn’t perfect and yes there are counters.

Edited by carnith

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17 minutes ago, carnith said:

the main point though was the keeper requires less of a screen since it can mess with activations. Yes it isn’t perfect and yes there are counters.

It can only mess with 1 activation, I've already seen players working out the best set of units to double charge a keeper with so that no matter what happens they're getting in major damage on the keeper. Players are going to rapidly adapt to the strength of our Locus, which unlike FEC, allows for savvy counter play and so we need to identify that counter play and eliminate it as an option. 

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I've found sticking two keepers close to one another a very viable option, or even a keeper and an epitome (horrible fascination can be a lifesaver).    

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4 minutes ago, Enoby said:

even a keeper and an epitome (horrible fascination can be a lifesaver). 

This I run sometimes, I favor pretenders over invanders so more than 1 keeper doesn't make much sense for my list set ups. 

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13 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

It can only mess with 1 activation, I've already seen players working out the best set of units to double charge a keeper with so that no matter what happens they're getting in major damage on the keeper. Players are going to rapidly adapt to the strength of our Locus, which unlike FEC, allows for savvy counter play and so we need to identify that counter play and eliminate it as an option. 

This is why I think Pretenders is bad (like really bad). Too easy to counterplay 1 keeper.
3 keepers operating in a posse though...

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

This is why I think Pretenders is bad (like really bad). Too easy to counterplay 1 keeper.

Not easy to counter play 1 keeper when you understand how to do it and game plan against it. Invader keepers are far too swingy for me, and you can't have any of the keepers bar one as one of your 3 generals if you want to keep your Locus web up. If you listen to the most recent Facehammer Bryan Carmichael says a lot of the same stuff I've been talking about (and says it better than I can). 

Edited by SwampHeart

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1 minute ago, SwampHeart said:

Not easy to counter play 1 keeper when you understand how to do it and game plan against it. Invader keepers are far too swingy for me, and you can't have any of the keepers bar one as one of your 3 generals if you want to keep your Locus web up. 

Right, so just make that one your general.
I find the swingy-ness more easily mitigated in Invaders than in Pretenders actually. The battalion actually giving you CP, plus the Rod of Misrule relic, means you have enough CP to make each keeper swing twice if necessary (not always necessary mind, in my experience).
A swinging twice Invaders keeper >>> a Pretenders keeper with sliverslash and some other nonsense, because both times can go before the enemy, you can target a second unit, etc. 3 swinging-first double-attacking Keepers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 pretenders keeper.

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Nothing is stopping a second keeper going in a pretenders list. Just seems that when ever pretenders is mentioned only a single keeper of secrets is mentioned. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

A swinging twice Invaders keeper >>> a Pretenders keeper with sliverslash and some other nonsense, because both times can go before the enemy, you can target a second unit, etc.

Edit - NM this has turned into my dad can beat up your dad. Both are viable choices that reflect play style and meta choices. If shooting ever becomes truly prevalent I'll probably swap to Invanders/ a multi KoS build but until then I prefer a single pretenders with a more diverse offering of support characters. 

Edited by SwampHeart

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6 minutes ago, carnith said:

Nothing is stopping a second keeper going in a pretenders list. Just seems that when ever pretenders is mentioned only a single keeper of secrets is mentioned. 

The value of an extra keeper plummets dramatically as your number of CP drops, and the Pretenders have the fewest CP of them all, with invaders having the most. 

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10 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

Edit - NM this has turned into my dad can beat up your dad. Both are viable choices that reflect play style and meta choices. If shooting ever becomes truly prevalent I'll probably swap to Invanders/ a multi KoS build but until then I prefer a single pretenders with a more diverse offering of support characters. 

The answer to shooting is Probably ethereal amulet to ignore rend. Then add cogs for reroll failed  saves. Then see what each host has to offer in other ways to deal with shooting. Maybe some movement shenanigans to chase them down shove that missle weapon were the sun dont shine.

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2 minutes ago, Poryague said:

The answer to shooting is Probably ethereal amulet to ignore rend. Then add cogs for reroll failed  saves. Then see what each host has to offer in other ways to deal with shooting. Maybe some movement shenanigans to chase them down shove that missle weapon were the sun dont shine.

Fortunately I don't think shooting will ever become an actual problem thanks to IDK. Its been the theoretical boogeyman that's going to correct the meta for almost a year now and still hasn't shown up outside a few niche applications. 

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Just now, SwampHeart said:

Fortunately I don't think shooting will ever become an actual problem thanks to IDK. Its been the theoretical boogeyman that's going to correct the meta for almost a year now and still hasn't shown up outside a few niche applications. 

It seems to only show up in some metas and the one that I hear shot around most is shoot cast. The problem is that type of army can swing depending on what battle plan and if they have to play IDK. It seems to be a 3W 2L or 4W 1L army. Oh and people who play insane horde armies can be problem for them. Feels more like a rock paer scissor thing. Maybe gate keeper army to take ****** on certain types of play is more accurate. There are people who like doing that though.

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I think seekers, now that they're better, could be one of our best units against shooting as they'll get stuck in combat quickly (not effective against shootcast, unless you take first turn and set out your army in such a way that they can't set up anywhere useful). Most shooting isn't that long range, besides canons which are unreliable to hit, so they often can't position themselves in a way where they'll be defended by chaff but also able to get in range. Wanderers are a dream for seekers as they just get blended by anything with a hint of rend. 

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I'm thinking about Hedonites army. I have few questions: I'm not super fan of daemonettes but I can't avoid them ;-)  But I really like the chariots. I don't like the mounted daemonettes but I super like cavalry and fast units to grab obkectives or harrass the ennemy lines.

- is SC! interesting? how many?

- Keeper is a nice mini but I see most of list have 2?

- what is the best build of charriot?

- endless spells, decors and co... : are they "must have", "meh", "useless"?

- I like the daemon prince but does he fit well in a KoS army? 

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@GeneralZero a few thoughts:

1) Seeker Chariots are Battleline in a god-seekers army (one of 3 themed armies that your Slaanesh army can be formed of). So you can leave out deamonettes totally and go for an almost pure chariot force. 

2) The army is very much weighted toward its leaders because they generated depravity points which in turn lets the army summon. So leaders like Keepers are popular because they are a tough powerhouse. Depravity is basically generated when leaders take wounds and do not die and when they deal out wounds to enemies that don't die. So ideally all those powerful keepers want to be charging in toward monstrous creatures and enemy leaders - multiwound models. At the same time keepers are wizards so have a good role there too. 

3) There's no best build of chariot as such. Seekers can come as battleline and are built around the idea of charging, pulling away and charging again for their bonus; hellflayers are a bit tougher are more "get stuck in and stay in combat"; exalted are a mix of the two, though of course cost the most. All three variations can also pay more in points and come with a herald atop, which basically gives them a wizard, a few more base attacks and the ability to cast a spell that lets them reroll hits of 1 on a designated target. 

4) The terrain is a good solid investment as it helps you generate depravity points, pairs well with the Infernal since she's about the only ranged unit in the game so she can hang back abit with it and remain useful. Endless spells are fun and might also be important because without them the army has nothing below 100 points in cost. 

5) The new demon prince is a beast in combat! 

6) Wrath and Rapture and the Start Collecting box are both good purchases. Wrath and Rapture gives you access to cheap infernals and fiends, whilst the start collecting gives you cheap access to pretty much the whole troop segment of the army barring fiends. You get deamonetts, cavalry and two seeker kits (which can be built as seekers, hellflayres or both combined to an exalted chariot). 

That said if you're avoiding deamonettes and seekers then you might well find that you don't want many SC boxed sets as many of the models you don't want. Instead you might find it cheaper to get just seeker chariots on their own. That said I would recommend a few SC boxes at the very least. Having options is good and seekers and deamonettes have their place in the army. 

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This is the list I have been toying with:

Godseekers

Keeper of Secrets - 360 - General - Thermal Rider Cloak, Speed Chaser, Progeny of Damnation

Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot - 220pts - Hysterical Frenzy, Enrapturing Circlet

Epitome - 200pts - Born of Damnation 

Infernal Enrapturess - 140pts - Cameo of the Dark Prince

30x Daemonettes - 300pts

30x Daemonettes - 300pts

10x Daemonttes - 110pts

Revelers Battalion - 180pts

Sybarites Battalion - 120pts

Cogs - 60pts

Total: 1990pts

 

- The concept is that since I have +3 to charge, I can summon and charge immediately super often. 

- Generates a decent amount of DP and plenty of self-healing allows for even more. :)

- Thermal-Rider cloak is critical vs Sylvaneth, against other armies if I don't need the mobility I will just use the terrain piece to convert it to re-rolls.

- Double Battalion makes it a 2 drop army.

 

Thoughts?

 

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