AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

What’s this an abbreviation of? 

The geminids of Ulgh-Hysh (probably butchered the spelling); an endless spell. 

[Drib]

1 minute ago, Enoby said:

The geminids of Ulgh-Hysh (probably butchered the spelling); an endless spell. 

*Geminids of Uhl-Gysh ?

[Kramer]

Just now, Enoby said:

The geminids of Ulgh-Hysh (probably butchered the spelling); an endless spell. 

Thank you very much ? saw the name a couple of times but just couldn’t figure it out ?

[Elazar The Glorified]

@Ekekrantz: what made you pick Invaders? I feel like I'm missing a rules interaction to make this a decent choice over the others 

[Agent of Chaos]

Yes why Invaders? None of those heroes need to be the general in order to use their command ability. All they need is a command point.  Seems like a pointless host as the rules currently stand.

[ekekrantz]

Oversight from me actually already made a couple of changes, removed all marauders and 1  warrior unit and added somras hellstriders and a lord of slanesh. Also bought a ton of demons since i averaged 20 point turn 1:) probably for summoning chariots.

[cascadingmilk]

Hi all

I’m a fan of mortals over demons, has anyone had any success like this?

The list I’m planning is below, does anyone have any thoughts/amendments? I have no difficulty getting hold of any mortal chaos model/unit if required:

Heroes

Chaos Lord of Slaanesh on foot

Chaos Lord of Slaanesh on demonic mount

Chaos sorcerer Lord (of Slaanesh on steed)

Herald of Slaanesh (on steed)

Sayl (ally)

Battleline

30 warriors of chaos with halberds and shield

5 hellstriders

5 warriors with hand weapon and shield

Behemoths

Chaos warshrine

Others

Gorebeast Chariot

10 knights with glaives

Endless Spell

Balewind Vortex

1950/2000

Basic Premise is to cast (on either warriors or knights) reroll 1 to hit/wound/save from wizard, reroll charge and battleshock immune from shrine, 6s = extra attack from foot Lord, and pile in twice from the mounted Lord. Sayl then picks the unit up and teleports then wherever needed. 

I was thinking seekers for the +1/2 to move and charge, means the knights would need a rerollable 6 (7 on the warriors). For artefacts I’m thinking the -3 rend in the mounted lord, or the 6s do d6 mortals vs hero on the foot lord who gets +1 to hit heroes. I have the Slaanesh start collecting box for any summoning I can do.

is this a terrible idea? ?

 

 

[PensivePanther]

1 hour ago, cascadingmilk said:

Hi all

I’m a fan of mortals over demons, has anyone had any success like this?

The list I’m planning is below, does anyone have any thoughts/amendments? I have no difficulty getting hold of any mortal chaos model/unit if required:

Heroes

Chaos Lord of Slaanesh on foot

Chaos Lord of Slaanesh on demonic mount

Chaos sorcerer Lord (of Slaanesh on steed)

Herald of Slaanesh (on steed)

Sayl (ally)

Battleline

30 warriors of chaos with halberds and shield

5 hellstriders

5 warriors with hand weapon and shield

Behemoths

Chaos warshrine

Others

Gorebeast Chariot

10 knights with glaives

Endless Spell

Balewind Vortex

1950/2000

Basic Premise is to cast (on either warriors or knights) reroll 1 to hit/wound/save from wizard, reroll charge and battleshock immune from shrine, 6s = extra attack from foot Lord, and pile in twice from the mounted Lord. Sayl then picks the unit up and teleports then wherever needed. 

I was thinking seekers for the +1/2 to move and charge, means the knights would need a rerollable 6 (7 on the warriors). For artefacts I’m thinking the -3 rend in the mounted lord, or the 6s do d6 mortals vs hero on the foot lord who gets +1 to hit heroes. I have the Slaanesh start collecting box for any summoning I can do.

is this a terrible idea? ?

 

 

I've been spending some time thinking about ways to utilizing marauders. If you drop those 5 warriors with hand weapons/shields and cut your unit of 30 down to 25 you could buy yourself 40 marauders with shields. If positioned near that warshrine you potentially have 40, 5+/6+++ wounds that are immune to battleshock. It would take a colossal effort to shift that blob. 

Just something to consider for your mortal dreams! Its just a shame that the official marauder models aren't the best.

Edited July 17, 2018 by PensivePanther

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Seems like a lot of Slaanesh lists are counting on Cogs. A 7+ with no obvious way to help the cast to me seems like a bad plan. Especially in a game that's often decided on turn 1.

Any slaaneshi way of helping out the caster ?

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Seems like a lot of Slaanesh lists are counting on Cogs. A 7+ with no obvious way to help the cast to me seems like a bad plan. Especially in a game that's often decided on turn 1.

Any slaaneshi way of helping out the caster ?

Unless there's a realm artefact I missed, the only way to get a +1 to cast is by using supremely vain (and that's pretty unreliable).   

[Carnith]

Getting the +1 isn't too hard. You need first turn, which is the real tricky part with no battalions, but your keeper of secrets is by a squad of daemonettes, with hellstriders nearby. This will give you more than enough bodies for a +1 to cast. You can also hope there's arcane terrain on the board, but less reliable. 

I'm still unsure of cogs. It's nice, but not something the army needs, Further debuffing the enemies with horribly undercosted geminids seems better as you can try to snipe out a hero or two if the dice like you enough. 

[Tzeentchmike]

19 minutes ago, carnith said:

Getting the +1 isn't too hard. You need first turn, which is the real tricky part with no battalions, but your keeper of secrets is by a squad of daemonettes, with hellstriders nearby. This will give you more than enough bodies for a +1 to cast. You can also hope there's arcane terrain on the board, but less reliable. 

I'm still unsure of cogs. It's nice, but not something the army needs, Further debuffing the enemies with horribly undercosted geminids seems better as you can try to snipe out a hero or two if the dice like you enough. 

I'm with carnith on this we already have the seeker host which is a good free alternative to cogs. I would rather my opponent has it so he has to seriously consider how much he wants my guys to have +3/+4 move and charge 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Tzeentchmike

[Cyanid32600]

1 hour ago, Tzeentchmike said:

I'm with carnith on this we already have the seeker host which is a good free alternative to cogs. I would rather my opponent has it so he has to seriously consider how much he wants my guys to have +3/+4 move and charge 

 

Fully agree i think the Soul Snare Shackles are a better alternative, rather than buffing your move you restrict them which i think combined with the Geminids could cause alot of trouble for the opponent

[Popisdead]

On 7/11/2018 at 4:44 PM, carnith said:

Always strike first would be amazing. 

I was told MoS used to be ASF in editions previous to 6th (when I started) and in 40k they have a similar mechanic so I don't feel it is too outlandish.

[HuyMix]

Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to Slaanesh (even playing against Slaanesh, can't say I've honestly seen an army IRL). 

I want to build an army but I thought the Seeker's host was pretty good. Kind of a speed kills thing. However, I don't see a lot of love for this Host (unless I'm looking in the wrong place). 

What are everyone's view on Seekers? is it because you don't like the ability to be forced to charge? or just pretenders are just flat out better? 

My thought on why I like it is because I'm not forced to move within 12" so I can control who I end my move or if I want to get close I can just "run" and be within 12" and therefore not charge. If I wanted to charge then it's no big deal either because I don't think the Host restricts who you can charge. 

Thanks. 

[Tzeentchmike]

1 hour ago, HuyMix said:

Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to Slaanesh (even playing against Slaanesh, can't say I've honestly seen an army IRL). 

I want to build an army but I thought the Seeker's host was pretty good. Kind of a speed kills thing. However, I don't see a lot of love for this Host (unless I'm looking in the wrong place). 

What are everyone's view on Seekers? is it because you don't like the ability to be forced to charge? or just pretenders are just flat out better? 

My thought on why I like it is because I'm not forced to move within 12" so I can control who I end my move or if I want to get close I can just "run" and be within 12" and therefore not charge. If I wanted to charge then it's no big deal either because I don't think the Host restricts who you can charge. 

Thanks. 

I have been running seekers since I started doing slaanesh and cancer myself changing. The ability to possibly charge 1st turn plays a lot of tricks on people as it pressurises them to take the first turn. My list is a couple pages back but am doing ok with them at the moment, even managed 2 games on the stream at heat 2.

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, HuyMix said:

Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to Slaanesh (even playing against Slaanesh, can't say I've honestly seen an army IRL). 

I want to build an army but I thought the Seeker's host was pretty good. Kind of a speed kills thing. However, I don't see a lot of love for this Host (unless I'm looking in the wrong place). 

What are everyone's view on Seekers? is it because you don't like the ability to be forced to charge? or just pretenders are just flat out better? 

My thought on why I like it is because I'm not forced to move within 12" so I can control who I end my move or if I want to get close I can just "run" and be within 12" and therefore not charge. If I wanted to charge then it's no big deal either because I don't think the Host restricts who you can charge. 

Thanks. 

I've found Seekers pretty strong - their negative can be negated by running most units, and the ability to get a first turn charge can be game changing. Perhaps more importantly, they can get to objectives more quickly than any other army in the game. Like Slaanesh as a whole, they can take a bit of getting use to. 

[Bazakahuna]

Sorry if this has been asked before, especially as I'm pretty sure of the answer, but I ought to check.

The battle trait for Pretenders reads:

"Pretenders: The general of a Pretenders host has two different command traits rather than only one. If you randomly generate the traits, roll again if the second result is the same as the first. In addition, you can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for melee and missile weapons used by friendly Pretenders units that have ten or more models when they are selected to shoot or fight"

With Archaon (or indeed any character General), would they be able to select a command trait on top of their pre-assigned one? I am assuming no, but thought I'd ask to clarify this.

 

[AaronWilson]

I would say no, as named characters aren't eligible to select Command Traits. 

[Bazakahuna]

1 minute ago, AaronWIlson said:

I would say no, as named characters aren't eligible to select Command Traits. 

That was what I felt, thanks for confirmation.

[PensivePanther]

15 hours ago, HuyMix said:

Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to Slaanesh (even playing against Slaanesh, can't say I've honestly seen an army IRL). 

I want to build an army but I thought the Seeker's host was pretty good. Kind of a speed kills thing. However, I don't see a lot of love for this Host (unless I'm looking in the wrong place). 

What are everyone's view on Seekers? is it because you don't like the ability to be forced to charge? or just pretenders are just flat out better? 

My thought on why I like it is because I'm not forced to move within 12" so I can control who I end my move or if I want to get close I can just "run" and be within 12" and therefore not charge. If I wanted to charge then it's no big deal either because I don't think the Host restricts who you can charge. 

Thanks. 

I'll throw my two cents in as well. I too was skeptical about Seekers. I chose them for no other reason than I liked their fluff piece the best.

Played my first game of AoS2 slaanesh the other day as seekers and I crushed it. I'd say daemonettes and seekers of slaanesh are going to be your problem units, as even if you advance them they can still charge. With the daemonettes I just tried to stack my odds in getting the charge off first (which I've found essential in AoS). I deployed them a little farther back than I usually would and relied on their high movement and a token speed bump unit to setup the charge. As for seekers of slaanesh, I had good success rocketing them into flank units I could overpower, then spring boarding them deep into soft targets in the back-line on the following turn.

I very much enjoyed the depravity system. In the past I was always hesitant to throw my heroes into the fray for fear of losing them. Now its like some mental block has been lifted. I just started throwing them recklessly into the enemy and it worked out pretty good this time. It was a thousand point game and I pretty comfortably hit 18 depravity points.

If anyone was curious I used a Keeper of Secrets, Herald on Seeker Chariot, The Masque, 30 Daemonettes, 10 Daemonettes, 5 Seekers, and the Malevolent Maelstrom. My opponent played undead using a Wight King, Tomb Banshee, Necromancer, 2x5 Grave Guards, 40 Zombies, Corpse Cart, 3 Vargheists, and...Suffocating Gravetide?    

[Carnith]

my thought is that pretenders is good when you have large squads of daemonettes present. you need as much use of the reroll 1's as possible.  Also your choice of commander is huge as you get 2 command traits which can make the keeper of secrets or a lord on daemonic mount much more survivable. Cause let's face it, a keeper with a -2 to hit in combat with hellstrider support, or a -3 for the lord on mount with hellstriders is huge and giving something like +1 to hit for models nearby or a 6" pile in so that the keeper runs and charges (granted as long as you are within 6" of the enemy) are some huge boon that that our leaders need. 

When it comes to Seeker host, it screams to me that it requires units to be fast on a base movement. while +1 to move and charge is good, i feel somewhat squandered. Perhaps if you still wanted to run a large group of daemonettes (60-90) then using cogs to help them get essentially a 9+d6 move is what you need. Seekers get stupidly fast with seeker host as they go to a base 16" move with a 4d6+2 threat range thanks to run and charge. I would include the +1 to run and charge due to a hero nearby, but they aren't likely to keep the +1 to charge since most heroes cannot keep up with them to activate the locus during that time, also you need to keep the keeper relatively safe due to it's fragility.  Other heroes that would work well here are Daemon princes with wings as they get a 14" base movement and if you do cast cogs, getting them to a 16" move with a +4 to charge means only needing a 4 on dice to reach most front line chaff. Chariots are also good here since you want them to be chaff killers, hit the front line, do as many mw as possible, and knock as many off with battleshock.

My disuse of seekers is that my list uses 60 daemonettes in 2 big squads. They usually blend the ****** out of whatever I want and are really an anvil once I use a hero nearby for reroll 6's (speaking of which, I wish the daemonette locus changed to unmodified 6's cause any +hit technically makes it harder to use and wouldn't it technically make hellstriders useless? I've been playing it as just unmodified 6's as it's terrible otherwise) and a -1 to hit from hellstriders keepers my girls in the fight for longer. While this anvil tries to hold the enemy in place, the keeper comes in to clean house. All of this combined makes me want to use pretenders as my hellstriders are support and my keeper doesn't outpace my army. I have thought of a seeker list that uses a lot of Daemon princes and an EGDoS (btw, FW didn't put leader on it, but it's only in the leader section on warscroll builder) for a turn 1 charge. that even if it all dies, still gets a lot of depravity. Also used in the list is cogs (helps with the turn 1 charge) are 3 hellstriders for battleline and seekers to get the entire army in my enemies lines. Any depravity will be summoning daemonettes to the board to hold objectives. 

[Tzeentchmike]

1 hour ago, carnith said:

my thought is that pretenders is good when you have large squads of daemonettes present. you need as much use of the reroll 1's as possible.  Also your choice of commander is huge as you get 2 command traits which can make the keeper of secrets or a lord on daemonic mount much more survivable. Cause let's face it, a keeper with a -2 to hit in combat with hellstrider support, or a -3 for the lord on mount with hellstriders is huge and giving something like +1 to hit for models nearby or a 6" pile in so that the keeper runs and charges (granted as long as you are within 6" of the enemy) are some huge boon that that our leaders need. 

When it comes to Seeker host, it screams to me that it requires units to be fast on a base movement. while +1 to move and charge is good, i feel somewhat squandered. Perhaps if you still wanted to run a large group of daemonettes (60-90) then using cogs to help them get essentially a 9+d6 move is what you need. Seekers get stupidly fast with seeker host as they go to a base 16" move with a 4d6+2 threat range thanks to run and charge. I would include the +1 to run and charge due to a hero nearby, but they aren't likely to keep the +1 to charge since most heroes cannot keep up with them to activate the locus during that time, also you need to keep the keeper relatively safe due to it's fragility.  Other heroes that would work well here are Daemon princes with wings as they get a 14" base movement and if you do cast cogs, getting them to a 16" move with a +4 to charge means only needing a 4 on dice to reach most front line chaff. Chariots are also good here since you want them to be chaff killers, hit the front line, do as many mw as possible, and knock as many off with battleshock.

My disuse of seekers is that my list uses 60 daemonettes in 2 big squads. They usually blend the ****** out of whatever I want and are really an anvil once I use a hero nearby for reroll 6's (speaking of which, I wish the daemonette locus changed to unmodified 6's cause any +hit technically makes it harder to use and wouldn't it technically make hellstriders useless? I've been playing it as just unmodified 6's as it's terrible otherwise) and a -1 to hit from hellstriders keepers my girls in the fight for longer. While this anvil tries to hold the enemy in place, the keeper comes in to clean house. All of this combined makes me want to use pretenders as my hellstriders are support and my keeper doesn't outpace my army. I have thought of a seeker list that uses a lot of Daemon princes and an EGDoS (btw, FW didn't put leader on it, but it's only in the leader section on warscroll builder) for a turn 1 charge. that even if it all dies, still gets a lot of depravity. Also used in the list is cogs (helps with the turn 1 charge) are 3 hellstriders for battleline and seekers to get the entire army in my enemies lines. Any depravity will be summoning daemonettes to the board to hold objectives. 

That’s interesting as I’m the other way I struggle to see the impact of pretenders  over the seekers. The 2 command traits are very useful especially when the exalted becomes a leader again but it’s a bit of of all your eggs in one basket and if your opponent can take that model out quickly you lose all your benefit.  the reroll 1s will normally only be affecting the daemonettes are any other infantry you have so while good it only effects a few units.

the seekers however are an army wide buff which just improves your ability to get around the battlefield and in an objective game like AoS that is what wins games. Also summoning is effected by this as well so when you deploy 9inches away from enemy units you are already getting a +1/2 to the charge (+3 for seekers if the hero is also close) , this just allows you to get models where you need them straight away and on fairly good odds.

 I ve yet to run cogs as I don’t necessarily think we need to be +4 movement but my opponents have a couple times and it really makes them think if they want to make my units even quicker. +3/4 to charge from summoned units is really good 

[Enoby]

4 hours ago, carnith said:

which, I wish the daemonette locus changed to unmodified 6's cause any +hit technically makes it harder to use and wouldn't it technically make hellstriders useless? I've been playing it as just unmodified 6's as it's terrible otherwise) and a -1 to hit from hellstriders keepers my girls in the fight for longe

Rerolls happen before modifiers, so the + of the 6+ is meaingless - the reroll happens even with the -1 from Hellstriders there was an FAQ about this a while ago (though not specifically daemonettes)

This was the most relevant FAQ I could find, though I'm sure there was a more specific one. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Enoby

[Carnith]

3 hours ago, Tzeentchmike said:

That’s interesting as I’m the other way I struggle to see the impact of pretenders  over the seekers. The 2 command traits are very useful especially when the exalted becomes a leader again but it’s a bit of of all your eggs in one basket and if your opponent can take that model out quickly you lose all your benefit.  the reroll 1s will normally only be affecting the daemonettes are any other infantry you have so while good it only effects a few units.

the seekers however are an army wide buff which just improves your ability to get around the battlefield and in an objective game like AoS that is what wins games. Also summoning is effected by this as well so when you deploy 9inches away from enemy units you are already getting a +1/2 to the charge (+3 for seekers if the hero is also close) , this just allows you to get models where you need them straight away and on fairly good odds.

 I ve yet to run cogs as I don’t necessarily think we need to be +4 movement but my opponents have a couple times and it really makes them think if they want to make my units even quicker. +3/4 to charge from summoned units is really good 

I guess its based on what we want out of our armies. My list's main punch is the 60 daemonettes and the keeper. I have 2 heralds on exalted chariots and a sorcerer lord on manticore, so for me, the speed is not really a requirement. My hellstriders aren't combat focused and just are for support. I also bring 2 jabberslythes for dying on monsters I don't think I can reasonably kill.