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AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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12 hours ago, LordRogalDorn said:

One correction to this. You only need to end at least as close to the closest enemy model when piling in, not as close as possible. 

And that is particularly important with the 6" pile in trait. You dont need to connect, just skirt around an enemy and jab from just under 2" away and move past them if you need to get too something more tasty.

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1 minute ago, Rock Lobster said:

It was not slick play from the skaven in that battle - in screening not range, overconfidence from cruising to victory in other games I believe and the matchup being so in his favor he didn't take the time think about every possibility. It was the end of the day and we were all tired, he knew that all of my units could fight twice but I dont think he realized the impact of the 2nd pile-in which I have found incredibly useful when planned for.

The keeper with the 6" pile in he had no idea to stop since with a 2in range I didn't need to make contact with his unit, pile in 6" skirting past the far side clanrat and jabbing them from 2in away as a pass and another 3" thereafter (making sure to be just slightly closer to the nearest model) and 2" range again. His WLC was not close, but moving 22" and then 6" pile and 3" pile and 2" range gave me the 33" range i needed to hit the sucker - the lesson he learnt isn't range management but not compromising on screening even at crazy distance just in case.

With the 2nd keeper again I got 10" charge +2" for seekers which gave me 16" plus 12" plus 3" pile plus 3" pile for 34" which was not at all what he was expecting. In both cases the WLC felt they were safe and would be in range next turn with enough screen to stop me, but I had enough clever movement to get around the screen.

I have no doubt that if he just played conservative and put his WLC even further back rather than getting greedy and formed a continuous line of fur the game would be nasty.

Sounds good and well done.

I must say however that you might not be so lucky with your opponent or dice rolls in future.

Still though, at the moment you gotta take wins against the dirty rats when you can 👍🏻

I did suspect that you’d piled in 6’’ with your second pile in which was why I mentioned it. I apologise for my skepticism.  

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1 minute ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

Sounds good and well done.

I must say however that you might not be so lucky with your opponent or dice rolls in future.

Still though, at the moment you gotta take wins against the dirty rats when you can 👍🏻

I did suspect that you’d piled in 6’’ with your second pile in which was why I mentioned it. I apologise for my skepticism.  

A 2nd 6" pile in would be so broken and delicious. If that were the case I would definitely take the flying fire cloak to give them the +4 move and fly... and probably a chaos wizard for daemonic power. Screening would be so difficult against such a monster that can simply roll past a unit and hop over the top.

I think the only way I could win that matchup was him making a mistake or wonky dice, in a perfect play scenario for boh players I dont this there is any current slaanesh list that would beat that list - it is too lopsided until we get some tricksy spells and battalions to work with. As it was the only lucky roll I needed was the charge on the 2nd keeper since the first did it all without dice, and the 2nd wasn't an insane move since an 8 could have worked with the right kills on the first attack, a nine would have been fine and rolled a 10. Plus I could use the reroll without consequence since worst case I couldn't fail a charge into the nearest unit thanks to seekers plus 2 charge. Overall dice were pretty balanced. But for sure - 8 wounds from 1 cannon in 1 turn. I am sure 2 hits his turn would have been unpleasant.

From memory he had

3 x WLC

3 x warp fire throwers

Some kind of verminlord with a 26" immune to battle shock bubble ability

Grey seer

Engineer

Warlord rat for the death frenzy

The endless spell that prevents running and flying and damages everything within 6" (pain in the ass)

40 clanrats

40 clanrats

20 clanrats

The WLC and warp fire throwers are horrible for us whether we go characters or mass damonettes - and its all mortals so no depravity.

Skaven are a really horrible at the moment, we need some deepstrike type shenanigans perhaps in the book with something.

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1 minute ago, Rock Lobster said:

A 2nd 6" pile in would be so broken and delicious.

Well you can do 2 6in pile in. You have to use the regular keeper of secrets command ability and make sure what you hit dies so you can bounce somewhere else. I have used it to tag 2 heroes or to kill support hero then swing into the unit it was supporting.

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1 minute ago, Poryague said:

Well you can do 2 6in pile in. You have to use the regular keeper of secrets command ability and make sure what you hit dies so you can bounce somewhere else. I have used it to tag 2 heroes or to kill support hero then swing into the unit it was supporting.

Yes that could be situationally good. I would be very concerned though about trying to slip past and then before my next activation 2 models pile in and trap the keeper in place. The immediate double attack is nice for that. Nothing stopping have both types of keeper though for options.

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1 minute ago, Rock Lobster said:

Yes that could be situationally good. I would be very concerned though about trying to slip past and then before my next activation 2 models pile in and trap the keeper in place. The immediate double attack is nice for that. Nothing stopping have both types of keeper though for options.

As an example I was able to tag a slaughter priest kill it then shoot off another 6in and tag another hero and kill it as well.  It seems to do better as a hero assassin giving you way more reach then the opponent expected. The immediate double activation is deffinently better for targets that need more damage.

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1 minute ago, Poryague said:

As an example I was able to tag a slaughter priest kill it then shoot off another 6in and tag another hero and kill it as well.  It seems to do better as a hero assassin giving you way more reach then the opponent expected. The immediate double activation is deffinently better for targets that need more damage.

That might be the option to go with for a small keeper, they are pretty good with the claws still, a rend -3 blade on them or the one that gives +1 hit and wound and they can assassinate a couple of small characters a turn moving around with that little base.

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4 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

That might be the option to go with for a small keeper, they are pretty good with the claws still, a rend -3 blade on them or the one that gives +1 hit and wound and they can assassinate a couple of small characters a turn moving around with that little base.

With most armies buffs moving to the wholly within sometimes a couple heroes end up closer together to trigger buffs. This can open the option to kill multiple heroes. With the new model coming soon the base is getting a lot bigger and new rules this could change.

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4 minutes ago, Poryague said:

With most armies buffs moving to the wholly within sometimes a couple heroes end up closer together to trigger buffs. This can open the option to kill multiple heroes. With the new model coming soon the base is getting a lot bigger and new rules this could change.

I hope they keep the exalted keepers mandatory kills your expensive character on a roll of 6 roll. It is funny just to horrify your opponent with the possibility.

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1 minute ago, Rock Lobster said:

I hope they keep the exalted keepers mandatory kills your expensive character on a roll of 6 roll. It is funny just to horrify your opponent with the possibility.

Exalted keeper probably gonna stay the same. the small kos dark temptation ability will change. I wonder if they will do it similar to the exalted keeper or go a different direction.

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For lore reasons, my Exalted Keeper (Czumneth Ereshkigal, the Architect of Misery) is always accompanied by at least one regular Keeper (her Handmaidens: Anchyche of the Song Sublime, Ophidia Vypress of the Dance Dulcet, Lissara of the Voice Vivacious, or Helecaraxë of the Indulgence Innocuous), and then the regular keeper brings her Coterie (≥20 Daemonettes).

A typical 2000 point army is my Exalted Keeper, 3 Keepers of Secrets, and 60 Daemonettes in 3 units of 20, then flavor to taste with the last 180 pts. That's a lore-based army, of course. And will probably changed when the Hedonites book drops.

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A bit of tangent to the current discussion, but I decided to have a bit of fun with maths. A unit of 20 fully buffed daemonettes (Choir of Torments, exalted keeper's command ability, and daemonic power) does an average of 45 damage to a 4+ save.  While quite unlikely (getting 20 in isn't that hard, but daemonic power can be a hard cast with the amount of dispelling and the enrapturess needs to keep up), I wonder how you'd even be able to roll the amount of dice required. 

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1 hour ago, Enoby said:

A bit of tangent to the current discussion, but I decided to have a bit of fun with maths. A unit of 20 fully buffed daemonettes (Choir of Torments, exalted keeper's command ability, and daemonic power) does an average of 45 damage to a 4+ save.  While quite unlikely (getting 20 in isn't that hard, but daemonic power can be a hard cast with the amount of dispelling and the enrapturess needs to keep up), I wonder how you'd even be able to roll the amount of dice required. 

Daemonettes are great battle line. Worth pointing out that even with none of the other buffs which are tricky to pull off, with just 1 CP they average about 27 wounds on their own against 4+ which is plenty nice. Its easy to get lots in combat I find owing to the base size. The extra punch of the other buffs is only probably required against super tough to crack targets. It is hard to break through sequitors, you can kill close to half of the 20, but the ones left who hit you back are all the ones with the nasty weapons so that is where the +1 attack would be great.

Best targets for damonic power I think are the exalted keeper, particularly if you have the +1 to hit and wound on the claws (wounding with 13-14 of your 14 attacks is amazing, and with the sword wounding on 2s and rerolling 1s), or a big unit of fiends making the stingers much more reliable and essentially making it so they dont have to stand near a character for their locus - I dont think it adds nearly as much value to the damonettes.

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Knowing that the new Tome isn't out yet so points and stats might well change, but past on teh currently available information what do people think of the following list:

Spoiler

Leaders:
Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot - 160
Herald of Slaanesh - 60
Infernal Enrapturess - 120
Infernal Enrapturess - 120
The Masque 80


Units:
30 Deamonettes - 270
1 Seeker Chariot - 80
1 Seeker Chariot - 80
10 Seekers - 240
10 Seekers - 240
3 Fiends - 180
3 Fiends - 180

Total 1810 - room for an endless spell or two

I can't see a benefit to having a larger unit of seekers save that it gives them more survivability; being a fast unit with a 1 inch attack makes me think 20 in a block might have difficulty all getting in range. Whilst two units of 10 can split up and hit multiple targets. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, Overread said:

Knowing that the new Tome isn't out yet so points and stats might well change, but past on teh currently available information what do people think of the following list:

  Hide contents

Leaders:
Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot - 160
Herald of Slaanesh - 60
Infernal Enrapturess - 120
Infernal Enrapturess - 120
The Masque 80


Units:
30 Deamonettes - 270
1 Seeker Chariot - 80
1 Seeker Chariot - 80
10 Seekers - 240
10 Seekers - 240
3 Fiends - 180
3 Fiends - 180

Total 1810 - room for an endless spell or two

I can't see a benefit to having a larger unit of seekers save that it gives them more survivability; being a fast unit with a 1 inch attack makes me think 20 in a block might have difficulty all getting in range. Whilst two units of 10 can split up and hit multiple targets. 
 

 No greater daemon in the list will hurt, you have no caster, so no point in taking endless spells. I don't think you need that many seekers, honestly drop them down to a 5 man as they only need to capture an objective. Put the fiends in a squad of 6 to make them survivable. Get hellstriders of slaanesh. They are seekers but mortals on top and they debuff enemies. 

 

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@carnith my thanks, I'll admit I made that mostly based on potential models owned from a purchase or two and didn't go through the stats for each model much. It actually surprised me when you said no mage, and yeah you're right there's not a single mage in Slaanesh save for the greater demon! That really is a surprise as whilst Slaanesh is no Tzeentch to be magic crazed I always felt there was more than one mage for the whole army. Hoping that we might see a change there and either the addition of a wizard or the expansion of spells for a unit or two otherwise that's a very steep cost to get just one wizard into the army on a Keeper. 

 

The hellstriders is a good suggestion, though I'll admit they are not a model that I favour the design of. Granted both the seekers and the hellstriders suffer somewhat (along with the lord on mound) of being a bit "big" looking for their mounts (esp when compared to the art). Though I also put it down to the fact that they all share the very similar "just straddling" pose which looks rather crude - not like the old, say, seekers in metal. Hellstriders was one I was hoping GW might have revised with a new model release wave, so I might have to think about conversions or perhaps that the real model might grow on me better than the photos I've seen of them. 

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@Overread

you can ally in Slave Mages which are always good. The on foot/horse sorcerer's spell is out of this world with reroll 1's on everything. The manticore is just a block of wounds which can grant you more depravity, but can't generate it well as the manticore sucks at attack and the wizard itself sucks at attacking and magic doesn't generate depravity. 

And I can agree that aesthetically they aren't what I wanted, but I'm fine with them regardless. They are too good rules wise to pass up. 

Also, if it's what you can get, its waht you can get. Most lists run a brick or 2 of fiends as they are hard to remove, a bunch of daemonettes, and the exalted keeper as it's pretty good.

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Aye, though allied mages only have a limited spell pool of what is on their warscroll card plus any realm spells if those rules are being used. Granted at the moment that's a pretty moot point since without a tome Slaanesh hasn't got any spells to cast anyway so even their own mage is similarly limited. It's more something (access to faction wizards) that I hope might change once the Tome is released and the army gets its own spell lore(s). 

 

For me the exalted keeper is on the to-get-one-day list though after a warpfire dragon (rules aside its still a model I really want to get)

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22 minutes ago, Overread said:

Aye, though allied mages only have a limited spell pool of what is on their warscroll card plus any realm spells if those rules are being used. Granted at the moment that's a pretty moot point since without a tome Slaanesh hasn't got any spells to cast anyway so even their own mage is similarly limited. It's more something (access to faction wizards) that I hope might change once the Tome is released and the army gets its own spell lore(s). 

 

For me the exalted keeper is on the to-get-one-day list though after a warpfire dragon (rules aside its still a model I really want to get)

Not that it matters but you aren't allying in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord on foot or Manticore. If they have a mark of slaanesh they are Slaanesh and not allies.

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46 minutes ago, carnith said:

And I can agree that aesthetically they aren't what I wanted, but I'm fine with them regardless. They are too good rules wise to pass up.

While a Manticore stand in may be hard, nearly any evil wizard model can be a chaos sorcerer

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5 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

The level of teasing here of "soon" is bit excessive 😄. Hopfully Sunday will be the announcment of the preorder and we can start seeing some secrets of the new tome revealed.

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