AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[Rock Lobster]

On 9/20/2018 at 7:37 AM, Siemano said:

Well I wouldn't be using a roster like that on friendly games but this is strictly competitive for tournaments. Just so I'm sure. Realm spells from aqushy lets say can only be used in the realm of aqushy right? And artefacts all through tournaments (that ofc allow them).

On another note to those two command abilities. Now let's say, I'm fighting someone, kill him off, and I am further then 3" from my next target. Do i lose the exalted keepers command?

If i can (after my opponent attacks somewhere) pile in from the small keepers ability and then my enemy is still alive, can the exalteds command work.

To the first question, yes you lose the 2nd attack, the ability specifically requires you to be within 3” of an enemy to trigger. So even though you could normally pile in 3” and use the 2” range to reach further, in this case you simply could not do the 2nd round of attacks.

And to the 2nd question, yes even if you are in base to base with an enemy and your pile in would be 0” you can be selected to attack again with the Keepers ability.

one great use of the double command ability is the ability to blow through a screening unit and hit the meat behind it. You can unload 2 round of attacks to clear the screen, then pile in 6” using the keeper ability to kill something actually important.

[Tzeentchmike]

On 9/19/2018 at 5:02 PM, Rock Lobster said:

Pretty clear to me rules-wise - it requires some reading but there is only 1 possible accurate interpretation:

Exalted: After this unit has fought in the combat phase for the first time, if it is within 3" of an enemy unit it can immediately make a pile in move and attack with all weapons a 2nd time.

Keeper: In you next combat phase, this unit can be selected to pile in and attack twice, instead of once.

The key word here is 'selected'. This shows the Exalted ability can pile in and attack again after its first attack only, the unit is not selected again as part of the alternating sequence of activating units in the combat phase - i.e. in a 1 on 1 fight you attack twice before your opponent strikes.

The keepers ability does not allow you to immediately attack again, it allows you to select the unit to pile in and attack again that combat phase, doing so twice instead of once. Note that this means if you were in combat 1 on one with the keeper ability you would strike, they would strike you back and you could then strike again.

If you have the Exalted and Keeper abilities and you go first in that 1 on 1 fight, you attack, then per the exalted ability you can pile in and attack again without the normal selection process for activating in combat. Then your opponent strikes you. Then per the keeper ability you may select the unit for a 2nd time and unleash your 3rd set of attacks against them.

This can mean a lot of attacks from say an exalted keeper with an artifact and using her own command ability plus the keepers. Thing to watch out for though is if you have the 6" pile-in ability, the exalted command ability specifically states 'only if you are within 3" ' so you lose the extra 3". You can however pile in 6" when selected again with the keeper ability.

 

 

Still not sure on this as you are right you can be selected a third time but you can only attack twice, so no third round of attacks. It similar to the doppelgänger cloak as with this you still have to select the unit to pile in but then it cannot attack so the activation is wasted. Selecting of units and attacking with them are different.

[Tzeentchmike]

In other news just came back from the facehammer gt and had probably the hardest draw I’ve ever had at a tourney . Played legion of sacrament first with a zombie dragon with the doppelgänger cloak and a good alpha strike potential. Than ko with 24 balloons and 90 arkanaughts. Then Dok temple nest with 65 snakes. 4th game was freepeoples with 60 handgunners, 40 swordsmen 40 halberdiers and the griffon with ethereal amulet. Lastly dreadwood with alairielle and durthru. Managed 2 majors against the dok and ko and a minor loss against the free people, but literally lost all the important prioty rolls all tourney. Luckily the slaanesh in the chaos alligience is the killiest there is and managed to rack up 8940 kps which got me the best in alligience trophy and a painting nomination to help with the soft scores so only managed 39th out of 84 ish people. 

 

Nice to see chalmers with with the all chariot list doing well as well.

[TalesOfSigmar]

Was great meeting you @Tzeentchmike and was great chatting all things Slaanesh, your army is beautiful!

 

Chariot list was great fun to play all weekend, finished with 2 Major Wins (Both against new Stormcast), 1 Minor Win,  and 2 Major Losses. Could've got a Major Win in my last game which would've had me finishing about 17th but I failed a 9" re-rolling charge on my Daemonettes and couldn't get the objective. Annoying as I'd made my 9" charge with all my units basically every game I summoned! But hey these things happened. Meant I finished 44th out of 88.

Off to the Howling in two weeks time with the same list, this time though we're not limited to what we can summon so should be able to bring back the Keeper of Secrets if needed. I have considered getting and painting an Exalted for the weekend to summon but not sure I've got the time/money to build and paint one in a fortnight.

Archaon and Varanguard were fun to use too, cannot wait to see what bonuses/buffs Archaon can get when we finally get a new book out.

Have been looking at more stupid lists for Slaanesh. If I dropped one seeker chariot, Varangaurd and Archaon I could run this....

Allegiance: Slaanesh

Leaders
Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)
- Dimensional Blade
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Herald Of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot (160)
- General
Herald Of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot (100)

Battleline
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)

Units
1 x Exalted Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (140)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92

[Johann]

8 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

Was great meeting you @Tzeentchmike and was great chatting all things Slaanesh, your army is beautiful!

 

Chariot list was great fun to play all weekend, finished with 2 Major Wins (Both against new Stormcast), 1 Minor Win,  and 2 Major Losses. Could've got a Major Win in my last game which would've had me finishing about 17th but I failed a 9" re-rolling charge on my Daemonettes and couldn't get the objective. Annoying as I'd made my 9" charge with all my units basically every game I summoned! But hey these things happened. Meant I finished 44th out of 88.

Off to the Howling in two weeks time with the same list, this time though we're not limited to what we can summon so should be able to bring back the Keeper of Secrets if needed. I have considered getting and painting an Exalted for the weekend to summon but not sure I've got the time/money to build and paint one in a fortnight.

Archaon and Varanguard were fun to use too, cannot wait to see what bonuses/buffs Archaon can get when we finally get a new book out.

Have been looking at more stupid lists for Slaanesh. If I dropped one seeker chariot, Varangaurd and Archaon I could run this....

Allegiance: Slaanesh

Leaders
Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)
- Dimensional Blade
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Herald Of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot (160)
- General
Herald Of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot (100)

Battleline
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)

Units
1 x Exalted Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (140)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92

So many keepers ?

please try it out for us ?

but you should leave a unit for 1-2 spare CPs, so you have more opportunities to double attack. 

[Enoby]

8 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

Allegiance: Slaanesh

Leaders
Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)
- Dimensional Blade
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Herald Of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot (160)
- General
Herald Of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot (100)

Battleline
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)

Units
1 x Exalted Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (140)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92

I reckon, with depravity points being generated like no one's business from this list, it could work. Your main weakness would be lack of objective control, but summoning helps alleviate that. 

 

This is the one time I've found a slight use for Invaders when list building - it would let you get the battle line seeker chariots and still be able to take command traits on the exalted keeper - devotee of torment is priceless. Probably still not worth it, but it's worth a mention.

[Tzeentchmike]

11 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

Was great meeting you @Tzeentchmike and was great chatting all things Slaanesh, your army is beautiful!

 

Chariot list was great fun to play all weekend, finished with 2 Major Wins (Both against new Stormcast), 1 Minor Win,  and 2 Major Losses. Could've got a Major Win in my last game which would've had me finishing about 17th but I failed a 9" re-rolling charge on my Daemonettes and couldn't get the objective. Annoying as I'd made my 9" charge with all my units basically every game I summoned! But hey these things happened. Meant I finished 44th out of 88.

Off to the Howling in two weeks time with the same list, this time though we're not limited to what we can summon so should be able to bring back the Keeper of Secrets if needed. I have considered getting and painting an Exalted for the weekend to summon but not sure I've got the time/money to build and paint one in a fortnight.

Archaon and Varanguard were fun to use too, cannot wait to see what bonuses/buffs Archaon can get when we finally get a new book out.

Have been looking at more stupid lists for Slaanesh. If I dropped one seeker chariot, Varangaurd and Archaon I could run this....

Allegiance: Slaanesh

Leaders
Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)
- Dimensional Blade
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Herald Of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot (160)
- General
Herald Of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot (100)

Battleline
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)
1 x Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (80)

Units
1 x Exalted Seeker Chariots Of Slaanesh (140)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92

Was good to meet you too and thanks it’s nice to see the army get appreciated. Yours looked awesome on the tabletop with all the chariots running around. Would like to see how that list gets on are you still running seeker host 

[Enoby]

Does anyone have the BoC book? If so, how much have the brayherds allegiance abilities changed from the GHB? If it's a lot, do you reckon we'll see the same level of change?

[kenshin620]

20 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Does anyone have the BoC book? If so, how much have the brayherds allegiance abilities changed from the GHB? If it's a lot, do you reckon we'll see the same level of change?

Ambushing was technically nerfed since you need one unit to be on the field per ambushing unit (though given the larger size of the army selction it's not too big of a deal I think).

Herdstone completely changed into a unique piece of terrain rather than a fancy piece of "is 4 generic terrains in one".

Most General Traits and Magic Items stayed the same, some were buffed, some were replaced. And then Bray Shamans gained a proper Magic Lore.

Of course thats just Brayherds. Then you have Warherds and Thunderscorns who gain their own General Traits and Magic Items, plus Dragon Ogor Shaggoths became a wizard with a 3 spell lore.

And not to mention the 3 Mini Sub Factions they have.

 

 

I'd reckon though to see the full picture, you'll have to look at Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle.

So the Slaanesh update will have Mortal/Specific Slaanesh Mortal/Daemon Traits, Items,  and Magic.

I think (for better or for worse) the 3 Slaanesh groups will fall in line with everyone else in 2.0 and have 1 army wide ability, 1 command ability, 1 specific trait, and 1 specific item. This clashes though with the current Pretenders and Invaders since those allow Command Trait shenanigans. Unless they make those have exceptions (like for Pretenders, you general MUST take 1 particular trait but may take a second trait).

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Ambushing was technically nerfed since you need one unit to be on the field per ambushing unit (though given the larger size of the army selction it's not too big of a deal I think).

Herdstone completely changed into a unique piece of terrain rather than a fancy piece of "is 4 generic terrains in one".

Most General Traits and Magic Items stayed the same, some were buffed, some were replaced. And then Bray Shamans gained a proper Magic Lore.

Of course thats just Brayherds. Then you have Warherds and Thunderscorns who gain their own General Traits and Magic Items, plus Dragon Ogor Shaggoths became a wizard with a 3 spell lore.

And not to mention the 3 Mini Sub Factions they have.

 

 

I'd reckon though to see the full picture, you'll have to look at Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle.

So the Slaanesh update will have Mortal/Specific Slaanesh Mortal/Daemon Traits, Items,  and Magic.

I think (for better or for worse) the 3 Slaanesh groups will fall in line with everyone else in 2.0 and have 1 army wide ability, 1 command ability, 1 specific trait, and 1 specific item. This clashes though with the current Pretenders and Invaders since those allow Command Trait shenanigans. Unless they make those have exceptions (like for Pretenders, you general MUST take 1 particular trait but may take a second trait).

Thanks for the info. I kind of think the different hosts will work a bit like Skyports in Kharadron or Cults in Daughters of Khaine. So we get our normal ability (whatever that is) and then get specific abilities associated with the chosen hosts.

 

Good to hear that some traits stayed the same - really hoping they keep devotee of torment!  

[kenshin620]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Thanks for the info. I kind of think the different hosts will work a bit like Skyports in Kharadron or Cults in Daughters of Khaine. So we get our normal ability (whatever that is) and then get specific abilities associated with the chosen hosts.

 

While that would allow for more flexibility, unfortunately so far in 2.0 we haven't seen the old 1.0 style subfactions.

Granted we only have a sample size of 2 (well 3 if you count Tamurkhan's Horde), but I think GW is really telling us "if you are going into a subfaction, you're going to have to go all in".

Granted though so far BoC players are much more positive about their subfactions, more useful and novel abilities, coupled with magic items that you actually don't mind taking (well Desolate Shard could do absolutely nothing, or it could wreck face against MSUs hugging terrain.)

SCE suffer from generic Command Traits being more useful, army wide buffs being marginal, many battalions that aren't worth taking (thus locking you out of magic items), and of course all the silly special characters can only be really useful in a Hammers of Sigmar army.  So thats why theres a lot of justified grumbling about stormhosts.

 

Now I could be very much wrong, as I said theres only 2 out of 3 Battletomes with this so far. But GW seems to like setting trends in 2.0.

[Enoby]

4 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

While that would allow for more flexibility, unfortunately so far in 2.0 we haven't seen the old 1.0 style subfactions.

Don't the Stormcast Stormhosts work like subfactions? I've not read the book so I may be totally wrong, but I thought that was something they gained. From what you've said, they lock you into certain choices in exchange for extra abilities, but I think that's what the Hosts may end up working like. 

 

E.g. "if you choose the Seekers host, you get a +2" bonus to move, run, and charge. However, your general must have the Quicksilver Swiftness command trait" 

[kenshin620]

Yea all the subfactions give you bonuses on top of your normal Allegiance abilities. It's just that the old subfactions don't force an item or trait all the time (some do, some only for a particular item or a particular trait)

So whereas DoK are almost always running a Temple, many SCE players don't bother.

[Enoby]

Just now, kenshin620 said:

Yea all the subfactions give you bonuses on top of your normal Allegiance abilities. It's just that the old subfactions don't force an item or trait all the time (some do, some only for a particular item or a particular trait)

So whereas DoK are almost always running a Temple, many SCE players don't bother.

Ah thanks, that makes sense. That said, I remember that someone said all of the 2018 battletomes (including DoK) were written for AoS (hence the different spine and the lack of rules in the back), so maybe there's still hope for taking Hosts without restriction. It is a big part of their allegiance ability, after all. 

[kenshin620]

I'm sure slaanesh hosts would be better handled because I assume theres still only going to be 3 of them (unless a 4th or even 5th host show up, but doubtful).

SCE have a....whole host of problems regarding their stormhosts (puns!). It was the first time GW did both a forced item and a forced trait.....and they had to do this with EIGHT Stormhosts.

So thats 8 unique traits (on top of the already existing 6, including one that is a MW save and one that is an aura armor save boost). 8 unique items...when theres already 30 magic items, armor, weapons, standards, scrolls, staves, and lanterns. 8 unique army wide effects and 8 unique command abilities.

Thats a lot of extra rules they had to write, on top of all the normal rules for SCE without repeating (at least I'm pretty sure everything is unique). So it's no surprise a number of the stormhosts seem a bit half baked, and it is really hard for some people to not run their SCE general with Shielded by Faith or Staunch Defender.

 

As I mention BoC players seem a lot happier with their subfactions which seem far more focused as they also like Slaanesh have 3. I think as time goes on with 2.0, GW will hammer out the subfaction thing better.

[Enoby]

Yeah, I feel it's very much a work in progress. GW get feedback, they work on that feedback, and hopefully improve. It's a good way to do it, as it means battletomes continue to get better and better (but not necessarily stronger and stronger). 

 

I am a bit wary of being optimistic for the Slaanesh battletome - not that I think it'll be bad (no battletome so far has made an army worse, afaik) - as getting myself too excited for it is bound to end in disappointment. The one thing I am worried about (and this is hopefully unfounded) is that we'll get niche abilities that only work in very specific scenarios, a bit like our BoC battalion. I know GW don't have the best track record with Slaanesh, but like discussed, GW are listening to feedback more regularly now.

A bit off topic, but now you've mentioned the amount of stuff Stormcast has, they seem a bit of a mess. Far too bloated (Sigmar should call himself the God of Excess), and I can imagine overwhelming to new players. I wonder if they'll try simplify things next battletome, or if they'll do a true branching off like generic Space Marines Codex vs the Blood Angels Codex. While I would rather they were put to rest for a while, that realistically isn't going to happen and so the problem needs to be addressed.

[Trav]

Have another doubles tournament in two weeks with my mates brass stampede list with 3 korgoraths. I loved my seeker knights last time so doubling them to a unit of 10 and adding a lord  daemonic mount to help make the knights hit even better.

one question- sorcerer lord for daemonic power on double piling in knights or a daemon prince??

 

lord of slaanesh on mount

allure of slaanesh, relic blade

 

lord on daemonic mount

 

sorcerer lord or daemon prince

 

10 knights

glaives

 

5 hellstriders

5 warriors

 

extra command point

1000 points

 

Obviously all about the buffed knights smashing in. Played a game last week with my list and they easily accounted for archaon. 

Just need to decide between the buffs of the sorcerer or the killing power of a daemon prince. Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[Carnith]

Alright fellas, the jabberslythes have been removed from my list. They have been put to pasture in hopes they can see better times in the future. Now the issue is I have a 380 point gap in my list. 

So currently my list has been

Keeper

Sorc on Manticore

2x herald on chariots

2x30 daemonettes

3x5 hellstriders

This leaves me at 1620. I used to have 1 less hellstrider squad but had 2 jabberslythes and a gaunt summoner and balewind. Prior to ghb this year, this was a 2k list. I've added a hellstrider squad for more coverage but have all of these points left over. What can I add? for fun casual games, I've been putting chosen in for fun since I painted up 20 and have added the masque in at times. 

I thought about added the chimera in since it just has so many attacks, or do I just add 2 daemon princes but then im left with 60 points which I guess I can take cogs or some other endless spell, but I typically don't have a hero who can stay back and manipulate the cogs as my sorc moves up to keep up  his free mystic shield and either cast another shield or try to damage with his spell, and we know the keeper of secrets is all about getting into combat asap.

[Enoby]

15 minutes ago, carnith said:

Alright fellas, the jabberslythes have been removed from my list. They have been put to pasture in hopes they can see better times in the future. Now the issue is I have a 380 point gap in my list. 

So currently my list has been

Keeper

Sorc on Manticore

2x herald on chariots

2x30 daemonettes

3x5 hellstriders

This leaves me at 1620. I used to have 1 less hellstrider squad but had 2 jabberslythes and a gaunt summoner and balewind. Prior to ghb this year, this was a 2k list. I've added a hellstrider squad for more coverage but have all of these points left over. What can I add? for fun casual games, I've been putting chosen in for fun since I painted up 20 and have added the masque in at times. 

I thought about added the chimera in since it just has so many attacks, or do I just add 2 daemon princes but then im left with 60 points which I guess I can take cogs or some other endless spell, but I typically don't have a hero who can stay back and manipulate the cogs as my sorc moves up to keep up  his free mystic shield and either cast another shield or try to damage with his spell, and we know the keeper of secrets is all about getting into combat asap.

What about a second keeper of secrets? They're very killy and tend to make their points back. I'd also suggest the Masque, as her half movement can win you a game. I think she has the highest depravity point generation per point, as well (don't expect much from her, but she's worth it).

[Carnith]

Well at movement 10 she is likely to get rerolls of hits and wounds, and she's fairly durable at 5 wounds, 4+ save and she can make an opponent auto miss an attack. 

 

Also, I don't own a second keeper of secrets. Mine was a conversion that I don't currently own the bits to make a second one, though I could eventually work towards that goal due to my keeper conversion makes for a good daemon prince.

[Enoby]

Looks like we're getting something soon! Seem to be fiends. Hope they come with a rules update.

[PensivePanther]

48 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Looks like we're getting something soon! Seem to be fiends. Hope they come with a rules update.

My body is ready.

[cooleyo]

In 40k, fiends are excellent as-is.

[Enoby]

4 minutes ago, cooleyo said:

In 40k, fiends are excellent as-is.

Yup, just a shame that they're not very interesting in AoS. They don't have a niche.

[michu]

Maybe it will change. Updated models often mean updated rules.