AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[SwampHeart]

14 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I think this book looks really good for mixing stuff (with them specifically calling out Chaos Slaanesh) so I'm hoping the  spell lores and artefacts are more available than the other gods.

Just an initial thought but Bestigors in a Godseeker host could be pretty nasty and fast. 30 Bestigors getting 3 hits per natural 6 is already rock solid and then add in their unreal movement ability - M6" + 3" (Great Bray Shaman), Run 7" (CP + Banner), then charge 2D6 + 2 (Banner + Godseekers) with a 4" pile in.

[Overread]

Giving Chaos Mortal Sorcerers their own spell lore is a good idea and a neat feature for an army that can draft in such mages from the StD force. 

[Carnith]

The idea of slaanesh beastmen getting benefits is huge and has tangible benefits to running large squads of depraved drove to get those benefits. 

[kahadin]

I'm worried demonettes lost their 2 hits on a 5+ in horses. That will be a huge nerf. It is now an allegiance ability, that is weaker, so I'm not sure it will stay on the warscroll as is.

[Grimrock]

1 minute ago, kahadin said:

I'm worried demonettes lost their 2 hits on a 5+ in horses. That will be a huge nerf. It is now an allegiance ability, that is weaker, so I'm not sure it will stay on the warscroll as is.

Almost 100% guaranteed they'll  lose it, but why would that be the nerf? It works out to the same number of hits in a slaanesh army, it only neuters them as allies. Also, I'd assume all of the daemons will lose their locus as well. Same as the khorne daemons did.

[kahadin]

I haven't done the math, but It looks worse on paper. Maybe it is mathematically identical to get three hits on a six, rather than 2 on 5+. I'll take a look.

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, kahadin said:

I'm worried demonettes lost their 2 hits on a 5+ in horses. That will be a huge nerf. It is now an allegiance ability, that is weaker, so I'm not sure it will stay on the warscroll as is.

It's not actually much weaker at all, I don't think.  So, if they're in units of 10 it's the exact same. If they're in units of 20+ it's very similar; so, mathmatically speaking, a 5 or 6 is double the chance of just a 6, but the 6 gives double the benefit. So if you roll two dice, and one's a 5 and one's a 6, then in old rules you'd get 4 hits (2 hits with 2 extras), and in the new rules you'd get 4 hits (2 hits with 2 extra). The only difference is when rerolling 1s triggering extra attacks.  

[Carnith]

As pointed out on 4chan, what if you use that whip to use  a heroes weapon against someone. What if it’s variable? Like the eidolon wave cloak. Is that 2d6 mortals?

[Poryague]

12 minutes ago, kahadin said:

I haven't done the math, but It looks worse on paper. Maybe it is mathematically identical to get three hits on a six, rather than 2 on 5+. I'll take a look.

4+ to hit with 60 attacks 5+ extra attack

30 base +20 extra

Extra hit(60×.33)

50 hits

New 6 count as 3 hits

30 base + 20 extra

This because its 3 hits

((60×.16)×2)

50 hits

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Poryague
Fixed math

[kahadin]

I guess the reality is we neen to look at units with a higher volume/density of attacks per points. Warriors? Marauders? I'm not sure, but I think there are units out there that would like to be demonettes.

I also bet the lord on foot's ca changed. It just granted this to a mortal unit. Maybe it will be good.

[exliontamer]

5 minutes ago, carnith said:

As pointed out on 4chan, what if you use that whip to use  a heroes weapon against someone. What if it’s variable? Like the eidolon wave cloak. Is that 2d6 mortals?

I mean I would say yes. It says equal to the attacks characteristic. To determine that characteristic for some weapons you must roll.

This artefect is crazy strong...free mortal wounds that don't require a roll and lots of mind games for your opponents punishing their bad positioning. I like it. Very Slaanesh.

Edited April 22, 2019 by exliontamer

[Grimrock]

9 minutes ago, Poryague said:

4+ to hit with 60 attacks 5+ extra attack

30 base +20 extra

Extra hit(60×.33)

50 hits

New 6 count as 3 hits

30 base + 28 extra

This because its 3 hits

((60×.16)×2)

58 hits

I think you're losing some accuracy by using 0.16, and even then I have no clue where 28 comes from.... You added an extra 10 somehwere. 1/6 attacks generates 2 additional hits. With 60 attacks you get 10 6's on average, so 20 extra hits. That's a total of 50, which is the exact same as before.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Grimrock

[kahadin]

I'm not sure our math checks out. It seems to be worse just rolling dice. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by kahadin

[Unit1126PLL]

Don't forget that while it might be a nerf to Daemonettes, it's a buff to damn near everything else. An EKOS with "Strongest Alone" gets re-rolls to hit, and something like 11 attacks. A high chance for a couple 6's there, and duplicating such powerful attacks is pretty terrifying. A single extra attack with her greatsword could be 3 more damage.

[kahadin]

I agree, this opens the door to other units. 

I think no matter what since we are dealing with one die face instead of two for large units it will be less consistent, however It may add value to other units. I think we need to see if any other units could benefit from this ability more than demonettes. 

edit: I think this rule benefits bad to hit good wound weapons. I'm going to look for some. I'm eyeballing flail marauders and great weapon warriors

Edited April 22, 2019 by kahadin

[ChaosUndivided]

I wonder why they went with keyword "Chaos Slaanesh" what could possibly be Slaanesh but not Chaos?

[Carnith]

Think of adding beastmen with depraved drove. They would get all benefits and it’ll be crazy

[Unit1126PLL]

2 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

I wonder why they went with keyword "Chaos Slaanesh" what could possibly be Slaanesh but not Chaos?

I am gonna laugh if there is a rule to steal other units from other GAs instead of getting our own mortals.

Temptation Unlike Any Other: Slaanesh's whispered temptations tug harder on a mortal soul than any other, offering the mortal its greatest desires at the very low cost of their allegiance. Any unit from any other Allegiance may gain the Slaanesh keyword and join this Allegiance; however, it retains its original faction keyword, representing its continued loyalty even as Slaanesh naturally feeds its desires...
Of course, this means it does not benefit from Chaos Slaanesh abilities, given that it has not fully embraced the hedonistic lifestyle of Slaaneh's true followers.

 

Yet.

[Benkei]

You got a rule like that with ye Olde Cult of Pleasure if my memory still works

[kahadin]

I'm pretty sure someone already mentioned bestigors, but they would be pretty sweet.

as far as stealing unitS, it would be mad cool, but hard to balance... Too hard. Still a fun idea though. 

[ChaosUndivided]

@Unit1126PLL that could definitely be what the terrain piece or endless spells do.

[Hebroseph]

2 hours ago, exliontamer said:

Man...so much here to wade through. And everything looks baseline "good." Special mention of the Whip of Subversion which gives the opponent the unenviable choice of breaking up that one unit and the hero they need for support or just handing you like 4 free mortal wounds average (I can't think of many heroes who don't have at least a 4 attack weapon on their profile). Or even better, since both its ability and Locus of Diversion happen at the "end of combat"...and based on that in-depth article they published several weeks ago that means that on your turn you get to choose the order things happen at the "end of combat"...so if they have two heroes next to each other you can Locus one of the heroes (the most dangerous one) and likely have the other hero kill it with mortal wounds before it can attack.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/

Well the whip requires the enemy hero to be within 1" of a friendly unit, which seems very easy to play around. 

[Poryague]

59 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I think you're losing some accuracy by using 0.16, and even then I have no clue where 28 comes from.... You added an extra 10 somehwere. 1/6 attacks generates 2 additional hits. With 60 attacks you get 10 6's on average, so 20 extra hits. That's a total of 50, which is the exact same as before.

I accidently x3 instead of 2 and fixe but math wise it works out damn close to the same. So functionally everything in the army gets the demonette extra attack mechanic. The .16 sure i can go 6 for ever but theres no point if anything it slightly underestimates it. You could go .166 which is higher and in large enough roll would average out more.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Poryague

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, Hebroseph said:

Well the whip requires the enemy hero to be within 1" of a friendly unit, which seems very easy to play around. 

It's the end of the combat phase, so often the enemy won't have the chance to reposition. Let's say the average number of attacks on a hero is 4 - 4 mortal wounds is a lot to do automatically. You only need to be in 6" to trigger, so it's easy to use it on a fast cheap hero that can sneak around to use it. 

[ChaosUndivided]

7 minutes ago, Enoby said:

It's the end of the combat phase, so often the enemy won't have the chance to reposition. Let's say the average number of attacks on a hero is 4 - 4 mortal wounds is a lot to do automatically. You only need to be in 6" to trigger, so it's easy to use it on a fast cheap hero that can sneak around to use it. 

Yeah this going to be something smart opponent will do their best to play around and you will be trying to reposition yourself to catch them when they thought it was safe. Like a game of cat and mouse.