AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[Grimrock]

Actually I'm legitimately curious why the discussion is being dominated by pretenders and invaders. With the way the army being so focused on summoning I think Godseekers are the strongest host by far. Sure your general does a little less damage, but the depravity points from charges are the easiest and most consistent of the three (some scenarios have large no man's lands which will hose invaders, and as soon as you lose the pretender general you won't be getting anything). Most importantly the +1 to charge off the summon combined with a banner and possibly cogs makes it pretty easy to summon and charge right away. 

I get wanting a better artifact or trait, but I'd rather have something that helps my whole army and takes the core mechanic as far as it can go.

[Poryague]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Yes but you will nearly always have at least 1cp, and a pretenders KoS with Sliverslash strikes much harder when striking twice than an invaders KoS when striking twice. 

Kos in invaders can be more survivable and it can synergies better with troops. Has access to more command points and then can use his command ability more frequently on more units and in both combat rounds. Thus allowing as a whole to deal more damage then just it. That's not saying pretenders is bad. Its a squishy beat stick you have to survive long enough to heal and try to get into the right units. I think it may be getting to excited over damge and missing other options in pretenders.

[Poryague]

Just now, Grimrock said:

Actually I'm legitimately curious why the discussion is being dominated by pretenders and invaders. With the way the army being so focused on summoning I think Godseekers are the strongest host by far. Sure your general does a little less damage, but the depravity points from charges are the easiest and most consistent of the three (some scenarios have large no man's lands which will hose invaders, and as soon as you lose the pretender general you won't be getting anything). Most importantly the +1 to charge off the summon combined with a banner and possibly cogs makes it pretty easy to summon and charge right away. 

I get wanting a better artifact or trait, but I'd rather have something that helps my whole army and takes the core mechanic as far as it can go.

There is play there with the right set up for some damage, speed, and summoning. The potential mobility to just get in and out of combat to snag objectives is high and you can probably out maneuver most armies.

[Carnith]

So in a 3 keeper invaders army do you take the battalion and max heroes? Cause what I see is you are left with little points to work with. 

[Kasper]

I've watched a couple of battle reps now and they only have 1 banner bearer on their Nettes of 10+. I'm not used to having units with multiple choices, but we agree that in a unit of 10 you can include both a Banner Bearer and Icon Bearer, right? Just seems weird they haven't included both.

[SwampHeart]

5 minutes ago, Kasper said:

but we agree that in a unit of 10 you can include both a Banner Bearer and Icon Bearer, right?

100%, that is how its written on the warscroll. 

[Elazar The Glorified]

6 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I've watched a couple of battle reps now and they only have 1 banner bearer on their Nettes of 10+. I'm not used to having units with multiple choices, but we agree that in a unit of 10 you can include both a Banner Bearer and Icon Bearer, right? Just seems weird they haven't included both.

Yes

Or two of one and 0 of the other but unsure why you'd do that. Is one banner or icon per 5 models so a unit of 30 can have 3 banners and 3 icons etc

Edited May 3, 2019 by Elazar The Glorified

[azmodan]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

Actually I'm legitimately curious why the discussion is being dominated by pretenders and invaders. With the way the army being so focused on summoning I think Godseekers are the strongest host by far. Sure your general does a little less damage, but the depravity points from charges are the easiest and most consistent of the three (some scenarios have large no man's lands which will hose invaders, and as soon as you lose the pretender general you won't be getting anything). Most importantly the +1 to charge off the summon combined with a banner and possibly cogs makes it pretty easy to summon and charge right away. 

I get wanting a better artifact or trait, but I'd rather have something that helps my whole army and takes the core mechanic as far as it can go.

Iam thinking about god seekers for the reasons you mentioned. DP generation seem more powerfull compare to others. 

+1 to charge after summon looks really  interesting

But pretenders KoS is so much powerfull.  4 attacks on claws. 8 if fighting twice. Reroll 1 on daemonettes if you get Alpha strike.

Small chariots as battleline dont strike me as something good.

Maybe if I test few more games I change my mind

[Rentar]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

Actually I'm legitimately curious why the discussion is being dominated by pretenders and invaders. With the way the army being so focused on summoning I think Godseekers are the strongest host by far. Sure your general does a little less damage, but the depravity points from charges are the easiest and most consistent of the three (some scenarios have large no man's lands which will hose invaders, and as soon as you lose the pretender general you won't be getting anything). Most importantly the +1 to charge off the summon combined with a banner and possibly cogs makes it pretty easy to summon and charge right away. 

 I get wanting a better artifact or trait, but I'd rather have something that helps my whole army and takes the core mechanic as far as it can go.

Also something to note is that most people have a lot of Daemonettes and Seekers and possibly also Infernal Enrapturesses (those that were playing Slaanesh even before the announcement, mostly), and... Few have that many chariots. To run a decent Godseekers army, you'd need at least 8 kits (each SC box counts as 2), maybe even up to 12. The most worthwhile hero chariot is the Exalted, and you want normal non-hero Seeker Chariots for your battleline and the only non-hero unit that can retreat/charge, so a minimum of 3 plus as many heroes as you can muster. You also want Cogs for the charge, an Epitome to almost guarantee that the Cogs go off (83% vs 58% is no small jump), an Enrapturess to sit on the Fane, and a Keeper so you can actually use your CPs to maximum effectiveness... Also POSSIBLY a Seeker Cavalcade so even if you retreat and your charge fails, you can pile in and continue attacking (though I wouldn't recommend it).

So, in short, you want at the very minimum:

1 KoS (360)
1 Enrapturess (140)
1 Contorted Epitome (200)

1 Seeker Chariot (120)
1 Seeker Chariot (120)
1 Seeker Chariot (120)

1 Chronomantic Cogs (60)

For a minimum of 1120.

If you pick up a Seeker Cavalcade, that's an additional 320 minimum, but let's put that to one side.

add 3 Bladebringers on Exalted Chariots for 660 and another Seeker Chariot, pushing it to 1900...

That's 10 kits, which include no Daemonettes and no Seekers, which leaves a huge number of people's models on the side.

I don't think it's so much a case of people thinking Godseekers are bad, but more a case that... people... don't... have enough chariots.

[Unit1126PLL]

1 hour ago, carnith said:

So in a 3 keeper invaders army do you take the battalion and max heroes? Cause what I see is you are left with little points to work with. 

3 KOS 1080
Epitome - 1280
Herald - 1400
Battalion 1520
2x 10 Damonettes 1740
1x 5 Hellstriders 1840

160 left for whatever - endless spells, mortal Chaos Sorcerer in the Hero battalion, whatever. 82% chance of generating a CP from the BN, put the rod of misrule on the Mirror for another 82% chance of generating another CP, start with 1 from the BN, get 1 per turn. So  a good chance of generating 3 per turn - enough to fuel the keepers for every turn. If you replace 1 of the 10 daemonettes with 1 more Hellstrider, you can get ANOTHER cp from the Hellstrider battalion.
 

[SwampHeart]

22 minutes ago, Rentar said:

To run a decent Godseekers army, you'd need at least 8 kits (each SC box counts as 2), maybe even up to 12. The most worthwhile hero chariot is the Exalted, and you want normal non-hero Seeker Chariots for your battleline and the only non-hero unit that can retreat/charge, so a minimum of 3 plus as many heroes as you can muster.

I don't think you have to have that many chariots for godseekers to be a solid army. They're very good but with things like the retreat and charge general, summons, etc., you can still reliably generate DP over the course of a game. 

[Grimrock]

Yeah I don't think you'll need a lot of chariots in a Godseeker host. They're nice to keep the charges rolling, but if you're killing your charge targets and summoning new units I don't think making charges will be an issue. The list I'm looking at has a unit of 30 daemonettes and 2 hellstriders for battleline and then 6 heroes in the sybarite battalion and some endless spells. Honestly I'm not sure how it'll do, but it should generate depravity points like crazy.

[CeleFAZE]

What are the thoughts on daemon princes at the moment? Are they points-per-wound efficient enough for decent depravity generation, given that we cannot summon them? Does the lack of the HEDONITE keyword hamstring them too much? Do we see them as a possible fail-safe for a whiff on an important locus attempt?

Also, do we think marauder horsemen have potential in a godseekers list for something other than chariots that can retreat and charge in the same turn to maximize passive depravity gain?

[Poryague]

4 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

What are the thoughts on daemon princes at the moment? Are they points-per-wound efficient enough for decent depravity generation, given that we cannot summon them? Does the lack of the HEDONITE keyword hamstring them too much? Do we see them as a possible fail-safe for a whiff on an important locus attempt?

Also, do we think marauder horsemen have potential in a godseekers list for something other than chariots that can retreat and charge in the same turn to maximize passive depravity gain?

Daemon princes not being summonable, not casting, no haedonite keyword are probably there biggest issues at the moment. The ability to jump the queue if something goes wrong is good. They do come with fly and 12in move that part is good. It's hard to say if they are worth the points.

[spenson]

I'm considering playing a chaos sorcerer lord on steed in my army with 1 KoS + Shalaxi. It gives a few nice buffs but it's a shame that it can't be included in the hero batallion.

Or maybe in pretenders to give rerolling hit, wound and save rolls of 1 to the big KoS (and a free mystic shield to another character)?

[SwampHeart]

49 minutes ago, spenson said:

It gives a few nice buffs but it's a shame that it can't be included in the hero batallion.

It absolutely can be. It says Chaos Slaanesh Heroes. 

[Belmail]

Do we have any lists of accurate updated points values for post tome release? I wanna get a practice game in tomorrow early before I can get my book but I need point values. 

[azmodan]

5 hours ago, Belmail said:

Do we have any lists of accurate updated points values for post tome release? I wanna get a practice game in tomorrow early before I can get my book but I need point values. 

You will find all the points in this thread.  Search few pages back

[Thor]

Hello all, I am new to slaanesh and totally on-board the hype train ! reading through the forum posts I've decided to put together a list, I am missing most of the models ( only have 2x halves of wrath and rapture and money is tight) so if you could provide feedback on the list that would be great 

pretenders

1 KoS ( general ) cmd traits : reroll failed hits if alone and +1 dmg  vs monster, sliverslash  on claws 360

1 KoS, termalrider cloak  360

2 internal enrapturess 280

1 bladebringer on ballplayer  160

30x daemonettes 300

30x daemonettes 300

10x daemonettes 110

hero syberite battalion thing

trying to play the value game here. with perhaps the strongest monster  killer in the game. 

list should be 4 drops.

don't know about their  spells. maybe hysterical frenzy  and I'm not find of the endless spells

list is fairly straightforward

 

[Overread]

I think its time we got a Hedonites of Chaos 2.0 thread

 

 

Who's going to start it?! 

[Enoby]

8 minutes ago, Overread said:

I think its time we got a Hedonites of Chaos 2.0 thread

 

 

Who's going to start it?! 

I think we can probably stick to this thread; it's long, but the discussion is still valuable - I think a lot will be lost if we move to a new thread

[Overread]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I think we can probably stick to this thread; it's long, but the discussion is still valuable - I think a lot will be lost if we move to a new thread

Most of the other armies updated to a new thread when the new tome came out. Mostly because the first 80 or so pages of this thread are all "old tome" stuff and would be confusing to a newbie. 

[Carnith]

Would be interesting yet a newbie to read through 93 pages just to get here seems odd and unrealistic. But who knows. Maybe someone would. 

[azmodan]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

Hello all, I am new to slaanesh and totally on-board the hype train ! reading through the forum posts I've decided to put together a list, I am missing most of the models ( only have 2x halves of wrath and rapture and money is tight) so if you could provide feedback on the list that would be great 

pretenders

1 KoS ( general ) cmd traits : reroll failed hits if alone and +1 dmg  vs monster, sliverslash  on claws 360

1 KoS, termalrider cloak  360

2 internal enrapturess 280

1 bladebringer on ballplayer  160

30x daemonettes 300

30x daemonettes 300

10x daemonettes 110

hero syberite battalion thing

trying to play the value game here. with perhaps the strongest monster  killer in the game. 

list should be 4 drops.

don't know about their  spells. maybe hysterical frenzy  and I'm not find of the endless spells

list is fairly straightforward

 

Just from saving money perspective.

Maybe covert seekers for hellstriders as 3rd battle line.

As for bladebringer you will have half of chariot bits left. So maybe consider exalted version wich is really solid game wise. Just check how many possibilites you have from that box

with left overs from chariot and seekers you can convert two exalted chariots.

Endless spells are not so good. Consudering money is the problem.

Histerical frenzy looks really great

Good luck with your army.

as for second enrapruress  I would sell it

you still have fiends. I suggest keeping them becouse vs enemies with more then 3W in groups of 5+ they are golden. Just do some math on fiends vs blightknights. 

[Thor]

thx a Lot from  The feedback ! i Also thought The second enrapturess is a little iffy.  i am considering converting into a lute or a guitar for the greater demon.