AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[Carnith]

Legal to use, though dunno how good it actually is. My main concern if you want the enrapturess shooting, yet she needs to run to keep up with the army that moves significantly faster than her. You want the +1 attack on the fiends, but they move 12" to her 6".

Also it uses pretenders, now one of less useful abilities since everything in the battalion that could get up to 10+ models reroll 1's for the most part. Fiends need a hero nearby, but taking another hero like a herald of slaanesh on mount, will be able to activate their locus.

[kahadin]

Take it for the artifact and command point. The extra attack might come up some time.

[Carnith]

Would come down to personal choice. There is more benefit to seekers than pretenders and I personally do not value seekers of slaanesh highly so to me, it’s 240 points for that command point and artifact. 

[Poryague]

40 minutes ago, carnith said:

Would come down to personal choice. There is more benefit to seekers than pretenders and I personally do not value seekers of slaanesh highly so to me, it’s 240 points for that command point and artifact. 

Also lowers your drops potentially giving the option to decide turn order. 

[Unit1126PLL]

The extra attack helps Daemonettes. I would say if you can keep a block of 20 or 30 wholly within 9" (by advancing) that's worth it to forgo her shooting. 

With 20 daemonettes (assuming  you can pile in well) that's netting you 20 extra attacks, which on average will actually be something like 17-18 hits thanks to the "5+ gets an extra hit after re-rolling 1s" rule. There's a good chance your 20 extra attacks could become even more than 20 extra hits with just a slightly above-average roll.

This means the battalion isn't useless, because even if it's just the Daemonette squad benefitting you've already earned 120 pts imo, between that, the Command Point (usually 50 pts) and the extra Artefact.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Unit1126PLL

[Mayple]

Quick technical question; would chaos warriors of slaanesh be battleline for a host of Slaanesh army?

Follow-up; would a beasts of chaos slaanesh battalion make their general allegiance battleline (i.e: battleline for everyone in a chaos army) units battleline for a host of slaanesh army?

Edited April 16, 2019 by Mayple

[Rock Lobster]

I love battalions, and on paper this one is a steal for just 70 points more than your 50 point command point you would buy anyway you get less drops, an artifact and plus 1 attack on a unit if close to the enraptures. I think I would take it for sure if it didn't force pretenders.

The downsides currently are:

• Going pretenders rather than seekers you lose the massively useful (and critical in my view) movement for essentially a little more utility on your warlord with the extra command trait is more eggs in that basket on a character who is squishy. Worth it if you have a very good plan for that 2nd artifact and can change the way you play - of course the battalion and everything makes it more likely your 2nd item bearer will again be a smaller more squishy character.
• The plus 1 attack is very hard to gain unless A) your enraturess runs around and doesn't shoot, B) you slow your units down. At any rate getting extra attacks is not a problem as you just spend 1cp with your exalted keeper to give those daemonettes 4 attacks and there is rarely need for more than that. Plus, she is a squishy character - a quick snipe and the battalion doesn't help.
• You pay a tax beyond the battalion to get it. The enraptures is a better summon than base unit in reality. You would rather put those points elsewhere and summon her. Also seekers I do not rate, they hit like wet noodles, dont buff any other units and dont fill your battle line. Points are already tight and you start 340 (290 if you ignore the command point) in the hole between the seekers, the battalion and the enraptures which could be put in more efficient places.

I played a 1 day tournament called day of blood in Ontario couple of weeks ago and won undefeated (played multiple skaven and deepkin) with the following list:

Seekers host

Exalted Keeper - Aetherquartz broach, 6" pile in trait

Exalted Keeper

30 daemonettes

6 fiends

5 hellstriders

5 hellstriders

Geminids

5 command points

This was a weird list based on available models with a bucket of command points and the aetherquartz broach to regenerate them. In reality I only needed one of the 2 - a big pool of command points or a smaller pool with the broach.

The big pool though allowed me to first turn often run daemonettes and main keeper 6" to get close to the enemy (and keeper to pile in later) allowing the daemonettes to keep pace with the faster moving elements. I was able to make both keepers, daemonettes and fiends double attack and would typically gut the opposing army in a single turn, or at least decimate anything touched. I would even screen with my daemonettes and let the opponent hit me only to reveal the horror of my screen being -1 to hit (or -2 with the geminids) and then the rest of the army piles in and attacks twice.

Key to the list was management of the hellstriders -1 hit aura and stacking with the geminids. Always keep general out of combat to pile in later and for second squishy exalted keeper fight first so the incentive isn't there to hit her. The fiends can easily tank any combat, the dameonettes too with the reroll 6's to hit them stacked with -1 to hit debuffs. At one point 40 clanrats with additional attacks and buffs attacked the daemonettes but had -2 to hit with the geminids and reroll hit rolls of 6 and with a bucket of dice did very few casualties and were minced in response.

I dont think this is the list I would settle on as it needs bodies, but it was certainly fun and a nasty shock. I think the command point pool is very important given how powerful the command trait is for slaanesh and also how powerful the run CP is on the daemonettes. Spending a CP with seekers to make daemonettes move 13" and then charge at +1 to their charge means opponents 20" away might think themselves safe but are more than likely being hit that turn which is a big threat range.

[Unit1126PLL]

38 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

I love battalions, and on paper this one is a steal for just 70 points more than your 50 point command point you would buy anyway you get less drops, an artifact and plus 1 attack on a unit if close to the enraptures. I think I would take it for sure if it didn't force pretenders.

The downsides currently are:

• Going pretenders rather than seekers you lose the massively useful (and critical in my view) movement for essentially a little more utility on your warlord with the extra command trait is more eggs in that basket on a character who is squishy. Worth it if you have a very good plan for that 2nd artifact and can change the way you play - of course the battalion and everything makes it more likely your 2nd item bearer will again be a smaller more squishy character.
• The plus 1 attack is very hard to gain unless A) your enraturess runs around and doesn't shoot, B) you slow your units down. At any rate getting extra attacks is not a problem as you just spend 1cp with your exalted keeper to give those daemonettes 4 attacks and there is rarely need for more than that. Plus, she is a squishy character - a quick snipe and the battalion doesn't help.
• You pay a tax beyond the battalion to get it. The enraptures is a better summon than base unit in reality. You would rather put those points elsewhere and summon her. Also seekers I do not rate, they hit like wet noodles, dont buff any other units and dont fill your battle line. Points are already tight and you start 340 (290 if you ignore the command point) in the hole between the seekers, the battalion and the enraptures which could be put in more efficient places.

I played a 1 day tournament called day of blood in Ontario couple of weeks ago and won undefeated (played multiple skaven and deepkin) with the following list:

Seekers host

Exalted Keeper - Aetherquartz broach, 6" pile in trait

Exalted Keeper

30 daemonettes

6 fiends

5 hellstriders

5 hellstriders

Geminids

5 command points

This was a weird list based on available models with a bucket of command points and the aetherquartz broach to regenerate them. In reality I only needed one of the 2 - a big pool of command points or a smaller pool with the broach.

The big pool though allowed me to first turn often run daemonettes and main keeper 6" to get close to the enemy (and keeper to pile in later) allowing the daemonettes to keep pace with the faster moving elements. I was able to make both keepers, daemonettes and fiends double attack and would typically gut the opposing army in a single turn, or at least decimate anything touched. I would even screen with my daemonettes and let the opponent hit me only to reveal the horror of my screen being -1 to hit (or -2 with the geminids) and then the rest of the army piles in and attacks twice.

Key to the list was management of the hellstriders -1 hit aura and stacking with the geminids. Always keep general out of combat to pile in later and for second squishy exalted keeper fight first so the incentive isn't there to hit her. The fiends can easily tank any combat, the dameonettes too with the reroll 6's to hit them stacked with -1 to hit debuffs. At one point 40 clanrats with additional attacks and buffs attacked the daemonettes but had -2 to hit with the geminids and reroll hit rolls of 6 and with a bucket of dice did very few casualties and were minced in response.

I dont think this is the list I would settle on as it needs bodies, but it was certainly fun and a nasty shock. I think the command point pool is very important given how powerful the command trait is for slaanesh and also how powerful the run CP is on the daemonettes. Spending a CP with seekers to make daemonettes move 13" and then charge at +1 to their charge means opponents 20" away might think themselves safe but are more than likely being hit that turn which is a big threat range.

And then both your exalted keepers get killed by roughly equal points in cannons, and you are down 250 points for 5 CP that you can't use, with an endless spell and no wizard, and no heroes to use the depravity you just gained.

We must play in different metas if your two keepers lasted past the enemy's turn. I've had keepers jumped on by loonbosses on mangler squigs coming out from Terrain and rolling 18s on their 3d6 move. I think it's just two unreliable to have only two squishy heroes when our allegiance abilities depend so much on heroes - and then doubling down on needing those heroes by bringing an Endless Spell and a billion command points that only those heroes can use....

[Poryague]

3 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

And then both your exalted keepers get killed by roughly equal points in cannons, and you are down 250 points for 5 CP that you can't use, with an endless spell and no wizard, and no heroes to use the depravity you just gained.

We must play in different metas if your two keepers lasted past the enemy's turn. I've had keepers jumped on by loonbosses on mangler squigs coming out from Terrain and rolling 18s on their 3d6 move. I think it's just two unreliable to have only two squishy heroes when our allegiance abilities depend so much on heroes - and then doubling down on needing those heroes by bringing an Endless Spell and a billion command points that only those heroes can use....

The same argument can be made for flesh eaters and they still destroy everything in the meta across the world. 

The loon boss example is dumb luck for the 18in move. This happens nothing you can do if someone gets crazy rolls.

[Unit1126PLL]

3 minutes ago, Poryague said:

The same argument can be made for flesh eaters and they still destroy everything in the meta across the world. 

The loon boss example is dumb luck for the 18in move. This happens nothing you can do if someone gets crazy rolls.

FEC heroes are less squishy than ours, and are more maneuverable with fly, and there are other Behemoths about to attract cannonballs.

And your second bit is rather my point - put a 60 pt herald in your list, and now you can use the 28 depravity you earned from your dead keepers (assuming they did no damage at all). That is exactly an example of "something I can do" to mitigate crazy rolls. This depravity could bring in a wizard for your spells, with a command ability that is worth using (even if it isn't as good as EKOS).

Edited April 16, 2019 by Unit1126PLL

[Rock Lobster]

1 hour ago, Unit1126PLL said:

And then both your exalted keepers get killed by roughly equal points in cannons, and you are down 250 points for 5 CP that you can't use, with an endless spell and no wizard, and no heroes to use the depravity you just gained.

We must play in different metas if your two keepers lasted past the enemy's turn. I've had keepers jumped on by loonbosses on mangler squigs coming out from Terrain and rolling 18s on their 3d6 move. I think it's just two unreliable to have only two squishy heroes when our allegiance abilities depend so much on heroes - and then doubling down on needing those heroes by bringing an Endless Spell and a billion command points that only those heroes can use....

I agree with the assessment in general, and was constrained by the models available to me, that said, victories are often how you play the strengths of the lists and capitalize on your opponents mistakes.

As mentioned I won the tournament with this list and played 2 skaven opponents, 1 with 3 warp lightning cannons. I kept 27.5" to stay out of range turn 1 and he made a mistake with his screens assuming that he was too far for me to get him. 1 keeper ran full 6" (using 1 of the plentiful command points) and hence used 6" pile in to hit the side of a unit of clan rats and rolled around the 1 model with the 2nd pile in to kill 1 warp lightning cannon. The other keeper surprised them with a 10" charge (using another of my plentiful command points for the reroll) that again allowed a 2nd rolling pile-in to take off the 2nd warp lightning cannon, the 3rd took 8 wounds off a keeper before it too died.

The geminids put -1 to hit on the verminlord and large numbers of clanrats which combined with the hellstriders kept me survivable. It was a full tabling on table 1 final game of an opponent who had tabled his previous opponents and by the end I had used a total of 9 command points in 3 turns.

The key to the success of the list was the seekers ability and the command points, it allowed me to sit out of range of the biggest threats to my army if needed and surge forward and strike in 1 turn if needed from an insane range, missing either of those components my strategy would not have worked. In this case it paid off bringing the trophy home.

 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

2 hours ago, Rock Lobster said:

I agree with the assessment in general, and was constrained by the models available to me, that said, victories are often how you play the strengths of the lists and capitalize on your opponents mistakes.

As mentioned I won the tournament with this list and played 2 skaven opponents, 1 with 3 warp lightning cannons. I kept 27.5" to stay out of range turn 1 and he made a mistake with his screens assuming that he was too far for me to get him. 1 keeper ran full 6" (using 1 of the plentiful command points) and hence used 6" pile in to hit the side of a unit of clan rats and rolled around the 1 model with the 2nd pile in to kill 1 warp lightning cannon. The other keeper surprised them with a 10" charge (using another of my plentiful command points for the reroll) that again allowed a 2nd rolling pile-in to take off the 2nd warp lightning cannon, the 3rd took 8 wounds off a keeper before it too died.

The geminids put -1 to hit on the verminlord and large numbers of clanrats which combined with the hellstriders kept me survivable. It was a full tabling on table 1 final game of an opponent who had tabled his previous opponents and by the end I had used a total of 9 command points in 3 turns.

The key to the success of the list was the seekers ability and the command points, it allowed me to sit out of range of the biggest threats to my army if needed and surge forward and strike in 1 turn if needed from an insane range, missing either of those components my strategy would not have worked. In this case it paid off bringing the trophy home.

 

How far away were the cannons placed to the initial units you charged? 

Sounds like pretty poor play that they placed the cannon so close to the screen knowing you had 2 pile in capabilities. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by NurglesFirstChosen

[Mayple]

5 hours ago, Mayple said:

Quick technical question; would chaos warriors of slaanesh be battleline for a host of Slaanesh army?

Follow-up; would a beasts of chaos slaanesh battalion make their general allegiance battleline (i.e: battleline for everyone in a chaos army) units battleline for a host of slaanesh army?

I'll just shamelessly bump this

[Unit1126PLL]

40 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

How far away were the cannons placed to the initial units you charged? 

Sounds like pretty poor play that they placed the cannon so close to the screen knowing you had 2 pile in capabilities. 

The pile in is 6" (both for activation and for movement) for the EKOS, so quite big given her base size and 2" reach. 2 pile ins could get you 12" if you're smart

Edited April 16, 2019 by Unit1126PLL

[NurglesFirstChosen]

31 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

The pile in is 6" (both for activation and for movement) for the EKOS, so quite big given her base size and 2" reach. 2 pile ins could get you 12" if you're smart

The command ability only activates from 3’’. 

Plus you need to end a pile in as close to the closest enemy unit. So if a unit is within 3’’ that then allows the command ability to activate, but you’d still need to end the move as close to or closer to the closest enemy unit.

This means that unless you’re in combat with an enemy on a massive base that the 6’’ pile in trait is almost redundant in the 2nd pile in. You can make use of the extra inches for the command ability but it’s situational. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by NurglesFirstChosen

[NurglesFirstChosen]

26 minutes ago, Mayple said:

I'll just shamelessly bump this

Marked chaos warriors are battleline for the respective chaos gods army. 

Not 100% on the second question, because I have no experience with using the beasts of chaos god-specific battalions. 

[Carnith]

gors and ungors are battleline when taken with a mark for their gods. So a depraved drove with a bunch of ungors will be fine. 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

@Mayple about chaos warriors btw. In my opinion, if you’re intending on using warriors as a hammer, you’d be better off with daemonettes. But if you’re intending on using them as a tank, then it could be an idea allying in 30 plaguebearers instead. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by NurglesFirstChosen

[Mayple]

9 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

@Mayple about chaos warriors btw. In my opinion, if you’re intending on using warriors as a hammer, you’d be better off with daemonettes. But if you’re intending on using them as a tank, then it could be an idea allying in 30 plaguebearers instead. 

At the moment I'm just looking at some minimum battleline units to go with my slowly growing Slaanesh army. Holding off on going heavily into anything non-heroic until I know whether there will be mortal followers or such included in the upcoming release

Slaanesh can ally in plaguebearers? So Nurgle is on their ally list? Does that mean that Plague monks, by extension, are also available? If so, that would open a lot of interesting avenues. 

Thanks for the insight, regardless

[NurglesFirstChosen]

3 minutes ago, Mayple said:

At the moment I'm just looking at some minimum battleline units to go with my slowly growing Slaanesh army. Holding off on going heavily into anything non-heroic until I know whether there will be mortal followers or such included in the upcoming release

Slaanesh can ally in plaguebearers? So Nurgle is on their ally list? Does that mean that Plague monks, by extension, are also available? If so, that would open a lot of interesting avenues. 

Thanks for the insight, regardless

I’m pretty sure they are yeah haha although I’m doubting myself now. I know that nurgle can take slaanesh allies so I guess I’m making an assumption. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by NurglesFirstChosen

[Mayple]

31 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

I’m pretty sure they are yeah haha although I’m doubting myself now. I know that nurgle can take slaanesh allies so I guess I’m making an assumption. 

Looked into it. Seems to be the case, at least for the time being I didn't know that. Very useful information! 

[LordRogalDorn]

3 hours ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

The command ability only activates from 3’’. 

Plus you need to end a pile in as close to the closest enemy unit. So if a unit is within 3’’ that then allows the command ability to activate, but you’d still need to end the move as close to or closer to the closest enemy unit.

One correction to this. You only need to end at least as close to the closest enemy model when piling in, not as close as possible. 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

6 hours ago, LordRogalDorn said:

One correction to this. You only need to end at least as close to the closest enemy model when piling in, not as close as possible. 

No correction needed - I stated you need to end as close to or closer  

Edited April 17, 2019 by NurglesFirstChosen

[Satyrical Sophist]

Q: Can Brass Despoilers, Phantasmagoria of Fate, Pestilent Throng and Depraved Drove be used as part of a Chaos army that owes allegiance to a Chaos God? For example, can I take a Brass Despoilers battalion as part of a Khorne army? A: Yes

‘Units from this battalion gain the Slaanesh keyword. In addition, this warscroll battalion is part of the Slaanesh faction and the Beasts of Chaos faction.’

 

My understanding is that ungors and goes with Slaanesh marks are battleline. Bestigors/Bullgor are not, since they specify that they require a Beastlord/Great Bray Shaman/Doombull as general in a BoC army.

If you have a look on the warscroll builder for Khorne they have updated it to include "Centigors of Khorne" etc. For some reason Slaanesh hadn't had that updated yet.

I quite want to try the Doombull. A pair of them have similar damage output to a keeper for slightly lower points and they have 8 wounds each, so it doesn't take much for them to get the depravity point equivalent back.

[Rock Lobster]

16 hours ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

How far away were the cannons placed to the initial units you charged? 

Sounds like pretty poor play that they placed the cannon so close to the screen knowing you had 2 pile in capabilities. 

It was not slick play from the skaven in that battle - in screening not range, overconfidence from cruising to victory in other games I believe and the matchup being so in his favor he didn't take the time think about every possibility. It was the end of the day and we were all tired, he knew that all of my units could fight twice but I dont think he realized the impact of the 2nd pile-in which I have found incredibly useful when planned for.

The keeper with the 6" pile in he had no idea to stop since with a 2in range I didn't need to make contact with his unit, pile in 6" skirting past the far side clanrat and jabbing them from 2in away as a pass and another 3" thereafter (making sure to be just slightly closer to the nearest model) and 2" range again. His WLC was not close, but moving 22" and then 6" pile and 3" pile and 2" range gave me the 33" range i needed to hit the sucker - the lesson he learnt isn't range management but not compromising on screening even at crazy distance just in case.

With the 2nd keeper again I got 10" charge +2" for seekers which gave me 16" plus 12" plus 3" pile plus 3" pile for 34" which was not at all what he was expecting. In both cases the WLC felt they were safe and would be in range next turn with enough screen to stop me, but I had enough clever movement to get around the screen.

I have no doubt that if he just played conservative and put his WLC even further back rather than getting greedy and formed a continuous line of fur the game would be nasty.