AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[Carnith]

i mean, all did their job. Fiends and exalted keeper slow grinded against 20 sequitors and 10 protectors. Fiends being -1 hit and wound with hellstriders there made them stick around a lot longer. Fiends should only show up in 6's or more. Enrapturess... maybe one starts on the board, but no more I think. 

[Enoby]

I have a game against Blades of Khorne soon (1500 points). Realm artefacts are not allowed, and I know very little of their list (besides that it mixes mortals and daemons).  How does this sound for a list? 

Keeper of Secrets 
 - breathtaker
 - devotee of torment 
Infernal Enrapturess 

Daemonettes ×30
Daemonettes ×30
Hellstriders ×5
Hellstriders ×5

Fiends ×6

[Carnith]

Just now, Enoby said:

I have a game against Blades of Khorne soon (1500 points). Realm artefacts are not allowed, and I know very little of their list (besides that it mixes mortals and daemons).  How does this sound for a list? 

Keeper of Secrets 
 - breathtaker
 - devotee of torment 
Infernal Enrapturess 

Daemonettes ×30
Daemonettes ×30
Hellstriders ×5
Hellstriders ×5

Fiends ×6

Looking good. You should be faster than them and dictate when you wanna start battle.  You will hit harder than him, so i'm expecting battle in your favor. If you don't want breathtaker, the icon is still good cause you can pop it on the turn you charge, you'll get a lot of units hitting on 2's and 3's

[Tzeentchmike]

So masters this weekend and this is the list I will be taking.

exalted with dimensional blade and invigorated by pain 

Herald on exalted seeker chariot

chaos Sorceror Lord on manticore

chaos Sorceror lord

2x 30 daemonettes 

2x 5 helstriders

10 seekers

for 1940 pts.

i have been experimenting with a unit of 6 fiends  and the masque which replaced the seekers and the chariot but the list just didn’t feel balanced enough and losing the command point was tough to take. Don’t get me wrong 6 fiends are a really good unit but they  just don’t quite fit into the list in a way I like. Plus I’ve played 100+ games with this list and haven’t changed it in AoS 2.

Also payed at the painting masters and managed to go 4-1 there which was a good warm up and a cracking event which is something to aim for next year as well.

so let’s see just had good the slaanesh are in an ultra competitive environment.

[Enoby]

9 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

*snip*

Good luck

Is there any particular winning strategy you use in competitive games? Looking at some of your match pictures, screening with seekers seems to be common, but I'm wondering about other tricks you tend to pull during gameplay. 

[Tzeentchmike]

2 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Good luck

Is there any particular winning strategy you use in competitive games? Looking at some of your match pictures, screening with seekers seems to be common, but I'm wondering about other tricks you tend to pull during gameplay. 

Charging seekers around in lines to make people pile in ways they don't want to is very useful. Also piling around an exalted to protect it from being charged is also possible. 

Seekers aren't a brilliant combat threat but decent enough. It's their manoevability to make people react to them which is a huge plus. As you noticed they are also good chaff which protects nearly the whole army if needed against alpha strike list.

[Enoby]

8 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Charging seekers around in lines to make people pile in ways they don't want to is very useful. Also piling around an exalted to protect it from being charged is also possible. 

Seekers aren't a brilliant combat threat but decent enough. It's their manoevability to make people react to them which is a huge plus. As you noticed they are also good chaff which protects nearly the whole army if needed against alpha strike list.

Ooh, nice point about disrupting piling in - that's not something you often see in casual games. 

Do you try for an alpha strike, or do you prefer to position until your opponent is in a compromisable position? 

How would you feel about 90 daemonettes (not sure what to exchange for them, but more just generally)? I have found 60 really good but I don't know if 90 is, well, excessive. I think they're our best unit (or at least tied best), but they are relatively slow.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Enoby

[Carnith]

bad placement in my SCE game is what really helped me. I had charged on both sides and the sequitors were clearly split, forcing some guys to stay still and not pile in. People forget that rule a lot.

[Benkei]

Kinda boring to see Slaanesh as a kind of DoK lite, just spamming Daemonettes for teh win. Let's hope we get a battletome toning them down a little and giving us alternatives. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Benkei

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, Benkei said:

Kinda boring to see Slaanesh as a kind of DoK lite, just spamming Daemonettes for teh win. Let's hope we get a battletome toning them down a little and giving us alternatives. 

I think daemonettes are fine as they are power wise (while killy as hell, they do die in droves and are kind of slow compared to the rest of our army), but they could move up into witch aelve territory with a book if there were spells/battilions to buff them (god help other factions if we get anything close to witch brew or mindrazor). But yeah, I would like to see more variety as well - it's not that our stuff is bad, in fact we actually have a very good selection, it's more that our stuff has to compete against daemonettes. I don't want to see a daemonette nerf, but rather have advantages (maybe in the form of battilions or specific command abilities) for using our other stuff, and no specific advantages for using daemonettes.  For examples off the top of my head, maybe a command ability that gave seekers the fly rule, or one that made the minimum damage of the fiend's tail d3 rather than 1, or run and charge to units with 10"+ move. I'm just spitballing ideas here, but I don't think daemonettes need the nerf (yet) as they're not too strong, but rather our other stuff needs a clearer niche and a way to excel at that niche. 

[Popisdead]

16 hours ago, Benkei said:

Kinda boring to see Slaanesh as a kind of DoK lite, just spamming Daemonettes for teh win. Let's hope we get a battletome toning them down a little and giving us alternatives. 

<insert hipster glasses> well Daemonettes did that DoK thing first.  

This thread has come down to the top players of the army basically doing well with what works best.  Don't worry, when the Battle Tome drops the thread will gain a good 50 followers and be active every 3 minutes 😉

I agree on alternatives though granted it would be outside tournament-focuses match play gaming to do that now, with say the BoC battalion, etc.

[Waiyuren]

23 hours ago, Benkei said:

Kinda boring to see Slaanesh as a kind of DoK lite, just spamming Daemonettes for teh win. Let's hope we get a battletome toning them down a little and giving us alternatives. 

I haven't seen a lot of armies that win by not spamming their best option, unless we're talking casual games?

Besides, while daemonettes are now good they'll still only put out half as many attacks as a fully buffed witch elf unit. The difference is that witch elves need buff heroes to get that obnoxious, whereas daemonettes get there alone. Granted, they have better resilience with a hero close by, but that's not where their killing power comes from.

Bloodletters were the same as witch elves, and sequitors are spammed for the same reason. Basically pick any army that is doing well right now and you'll see one workhorse being spammed to secure those wins, be it a unit or allegiance ability, etc. That doesn't mean that's the direction Slaanesh is going though; just with the wrath & rapture box the army was given an alternative to hellstrider spam, seeker spam, chariot spam, or daemonette spam in the form of magic denial and fiend spam. 🤣

[Enoby]

 

3 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:

chariot spam

Now that you mention it, has this ever been done to any form of success? Maybe chariots don't like me, but mind have never performed.  

[Tzeentchmike]

23 hours ago, Enoby said:

I think daemonettes are fine as they are power wise (while killy as hell, they do die in droves and are kind of slow compared to the rest of our army), but they could move up into witch aelve territory with a book if there were spells/battilions to buff them (god help other factions if we get anything close to witch brew or mindrazor). But yeah, I would like to see more variety as well - it's not that our stuff is bad, in fact we actually have a very good selection, it's more that our stuff has to compete against daemonettes. I don't want to see a daemonette nerf, but rather have advantages (maybe in the form of battilions or specific command abilities) for using our other stuff, and no specific advantages for using daemonettes.  For examples off the top of my head, maybe a command ability that gave seekers the fly rule, or one that made the minimum damage of the fiend's tail d3 rather than 1, or run and charge to units with 10"+ move. I'm just spitballing ideas here, but I don't think daemonettes need the nerf (yet) as they're not too strong, but rather our other stuff needs a clearer niche and a way to excel at that niche. 

Weirdly enough I think daemonettes are better than witch elves especially in their new format. I rate them as one of the best battleline units due to the sheer damage out put they can put out.

[Waiyuren]

8 minutes ago, Enoby said:

 

Now that you mention it, has this ever been done to any form of success? Maybe chariots don't like me, but mind have never performed.  

One of the other members posted a  Seeker chariot list about 20 pages back, did well with it I think?

Chariots are such a weird unit... I can't think of an edition where they were actually really good, except with the occasional corner case like the exalted seeker, or the Tzeentch ones currently.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Waiyuren

[Enoby]

4 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Weirdly enough I think daemonettes are better than witch elves especially in their new format. I rate them as one of the best battleline units due to the sheer damage out put they can put out.

Currently I agree, in that compared side by side daemonettes are better than witch aelves, but I think we lag behind by quite a bit when the witch aelves get their buffs.  If daemonettes get access to huge buffs like witch brew then I don't think there will be much competition in the 'best battleline' rankings. That said, there are very few buffs in Slaanesh - even pile in and attack twice doesn't modify a unit's stats, it just lets them use their stats two times. I feel most of our abilities will be debuff based.

Would you say spamming (as in 90+) daemonettes is a good tactic, or do you think they reach peak efficiency at 60 in a 2k list?  

[exliontamer]

18 hours ago, Waiyuren said:

One of the other members posted a  Seeker chariot list about 20 pages back, did well with it I think?

Chariots are such a weird unit... I can't think of an edition where they were actually really good, except with the occasional corner case like the exalted seeker, or the Tzeentch ones currently.

I can see value in chariots for filling out the BL requirements if you are trying to max out points with pricey stuff like KoS, Exalted KoS, Fiends, etc...since one 80pt chariot is likely more useful in many situations (and some battleplans) than one 100pt 10-man daemonette squad...I mean I would never consider running them less than 20 but that's just me.

[Waiyuren]

@exliontamer yeah absolutely, although you'd need to take the exalted seeker? as your general to unlock, so 320 minimum at 1k. Efficiency-wise it might be better to take Hellstriders at that point, so I think if you were putting chariots in, you'd probably be going all in...

I wonder what an army of nothing but exalted, hellflayer, and seeker chariots would play like... I feel like they'd just get stuck in terrain. 😓

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, Waiyuren said:

I wonder what an army of nothing but exalted, hellflayer, and seeker chariots would play like... I feel like they'd just get stuck in terrain. 😓

Judging my my experience transporting them, they'd get stuck in the case before they got stuck in the terrain 😛

[Enoby]

I'm taking part in a team tournament at some point. We each take 1000 points that must be playable (thus we need enough battleline per list). My ally's list is:

60 grots with spears
20 grots (didn't mention weapon)
5 spore fanatics
Mangler (didn't say if it was the hero)
Fungoid cave shaman
 

He's looking for fast support, and I'm debating over these two lists (both seekers):

1 Exalted Keeper of Secrets  

6 fiends 

2 units of 5 hellstriders 

OR 

1 Keeper of Secrets 

1 Infernal Enrapturess

6 fiends 

2 units of hellstriders 

 

I am trying not to use daemonettes, kind of for the opponents' sanity - we would take hours to move everything - and also because I don't want to over rely on them. The first list has the advantage of a very strong command ability and a much more powerful hero, but it is also worse for depravity as, as soon as it dies I cannot summon. The second list hits less hard, but is much more stable with depravity points.

The general idea is that the grots get onto the points, I use one of my hellstriders combined with the netters to put the opponents on -2 to hit. The rest of my army and the mangler then strike where the opponent has left undefended.

[Enoby]

I had a game against 1000pts of deepkin the other day. They were running 40 Namarti thralls (2 units of 20), 10 Namarti reavers, 2 Ishaaran Soulrenders, and Lotann. I was running an Exalted Keeper of Secrets,  6 fiends, and 2 units of 5 hellstriders. 

I gave them first turn, they moved forward (18 inches away from me). I moved forwards with my entire army. I charged the fiends in, and stood back to pile in with the EKoS. The hellstriders were each assigned to a group of thralls. The fiends were selected to pile in and attack first, and they had the EKoS's command ability on them so they did that twice. They wiped out 20 thralls. They were in two units, and so 14 thralls got in (we thought they had a 2" reach), and killed one fiend (-2 to hit and -1 to wound crippled them). The EKoS piled into them, got lucky with its claws and killed all 20 of them in one go. They got second turn, killed another fiend with their reavers, tried (but failed) to grow brain barnacles on the EKoS. On my second turn, the fiends closed in and killed the reavers, and the EKoS killed all but Lotann. The opponent conceded after that. 

I underestimated how good fiends would be against a horde of one wound models, but was pleasantly surprised. The list didn't have much in the way of objective controll (hellstriders chased them once the main threats were dealt with), but it hit like a train.

[Unit1126PLL]

Hello everyone!

I'm a Slaanesh player (though narrative-oriented and less competitively). I still like to see my lists do well, of course. Just played in a narrative event in the NOVA area called Prime Dominion.

Anyways, I had a thought today about Depravity Points. The current FAQ for the General's Handbook was published on 17/12/2018, making it older than Wrath and Rapture if I recall correctly. If we are supposed to use the most recent rules for our armies, does that mean the Depravity Points mechanic as printed in Wrath and Rapture (which does not include the wording WRT Mortal Wounds not counting) take precedence over the FAQ?

I'm a bit confused, as it seems like Wrath and Rapture would be an excellent time to restate that Mortal Wounds do not generate depravity, but if I recall correctly it did not...

[Kramer]

Can I introduce you to my new Slaanesh daemon prince 😍 (slight conversion needed but dang!)

[Carnith]

49 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

Hello everyone!

I'm a Slaanesh player (though narrative-oriented and less competitively). I still like to see my lists do well, of course. Just played in a narrative event in the NOVA area called Prime Dominion.

Anyways, I had a thought today about Depravity Points. The current FAQ for the General's Handbook was published on 17/12/2018, making it older than Wrath and Rapture if I recall correctly. If we are supposed to use the most recent rules for our armies, does that mean the Depravity Points mechanic as printed in Wrath and Rapture (which does not include the wording WRT Mortal Wounds not counting) take precedence over the FAQ?

I'm a bit confused, as it seems like Wrath and Rapture would be an excellent time to restate that Mortal Wounds do not generate depravity, but if I recall correctly it did not...

so that FAQ you are talking about i believe is Designer Commentary, which means they are discussing their intent of the rule. Now I think they messed up that intent with release order of a lot of books. Sigmar 2.0 clearly defined mortal wounds as wounds for all rules purposes... but then gutted the entire thing out because they had released a book that would have been for sigmar 1.0 (malign sorceries) that has unclear language in the new edition, so they gutted and had to errata a lot of their new language to fit old things, or try to bring things up to a new level. All in all, it wasn't pretty.

[Unit1126PLL]

7 minutes ago, carnith said:

so that FAQ you are talking about i believe is Designer Commentary, which means they are discussing their intent of the rule. Now I think they messed up that intent with release order of a lot of books. Sigmar 2.0 clearly defined mortal wounds as wounds for all rules purposes... but then gutted the entire thing out because they had released a book that would have been for sigmar 1.0 (malign sorceries) that has unclear language in the new edition, so they gutted and had to errata a lot of their new language to fit old things, or try to bring things up to a new level. All in all, it wasn't pretty.

Sure, but I think the argument is that intent can change, and if they release a subsequently-published thingy that doesn't have the change they wanted laid out, does that obviate the older intent from a previously published thingy?

I don't know. I haven't been counting mortal wounds, but it's curious.