AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[Tzeentchmike]

4 minutes ago, Enoby said:

What would you suggest instead of the small keeper? A big chunk of daemonettes, maybe? Hellstriders and something else (maybe three fiends)?

All depends what you want to do 

Helstriders and herald on exalted chariot is one option. Fiends are good . Another 30 daemonettes would be good. Lots of options I just don't rate the keeper at the moment. He's fine to summon if you need one though 

[Tzeentchmike]

5 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

Yes I forgot that the seekers were not battleline, another point against them when they are already poor. I dont like the battalion, but in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. We have no battalions so if you want to get a 2nd artifact and fewer drops, at least it is cheap. My lists I am actually running do not include this as I think losing seekers is an unnacceptable loss. When our book comes, problem solved with battalions.

I wouldn't call seekers poor they have specific uses not front line killing machines. The ability to bubble wrap your army in them to stop alpha strikes is something I think I will miss in the list I posted above. I don't mind the drip count at the moment as we have enough quick threats to make people take the first turn. I know from experience if I get that turn 1-2 Double turn it's pretty much all over.

[Rock Lobster]

2 hours ago, Tzeentchmike said:

I wouldn't call seekers poor they have specific uses not front line killing machines. The ability to bubble wrap your army in them to stop alpha strikes is something I think I will miss in the list I posted above. I don't mind the drip count at the moment as we have enough quick threats to make people take the first turn. I know from experience if I get that turn 1-2 Double turn it's pretty much all over.

Don’t you think though that the bubble wrap role can be better filled by hellstriders for cheaper, occupying battle line and With a little more resilience if hit with their -1. If you have fiends, you can even keep good fighting units within 3 inches to pile in with the added protection of the -1 like fiends to blunt a turn 1 rush and backfire it on the opponent.

[Tzeentchmike]

16 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

Don’t you think though that the bubble wrap role can be better filled by hellstriders for cheaper, occupying battle line and With a little more resilience if hit with their -1. If you have fiends, you can even keep good fighting units within 3 inches to pile in with the added protection of the -1 like fiends to blunt a turn 1 rush and backfire it on the opponent.

Helstriders as we good for this role as well but are even weaker in combat than the seekers are. The seekers can be used in many different ways depending on the army you are facing whilst helstriders are normally babysitting important units. Generally you have to be careful with staying within 3 of the bubble wrap storm cast and deepkin can hurt hose units before you can strike now. I like seekers I think they are an underrated unit so many potential uses for them.

[Carnith]

I give seekers credit for making it to nearly wherever they want, just that they lack the punch to hurt things, perhaps with getting reroll 1's with the icon, they might have a better shot. But if I need a support unit, I tend to take hellstriders. They stick around daemonettes or a keeper for defense and then if i'm solid my in positions and i know they won't be hurting in a fight, they run off for objectives or just stand near enemies and go "LOOK AT THE SHINEY BANNER"

[Enoby]

Is it just me, or do seekers seem ironically worse in the seekers host. Sure, they're super fast, but they will nearly always have to charge so you can't always position them where you want them to be.

[LordRogalDorn]

an 18in move is pretty sweet for repositioning the unit to help grab objectives late in the game and provide banner support to units that may need it more for the second wave. You can also do some fun tricks with them to limit the ability of your opponent to move for the first turn because of that extra move distance. 

[Rock Lobster]

15 hours ago, Enoby said:

Is it just me, or do seekers seem ironically worse in the seekers host. Sure, they're super fast, but they will nearly always have to charge so you can't always position them where you want them to be.

Indeed! Seekers is the best host in my oppinion, but it makes seekers the unit super risky, you can't even run to stop them charging away out of position and getting slaughtered. Hellstriders are again better as if you want them to run off and sit on an objective you can run them and they will stay put rather than doing the charge of the light brigade routine.

[Waiyuren]

So how do the hosts look now?

Seekers host seems pretty good once you mitigate the downside; Daemonettes and Seekers (which are the bulk of what I own. 😅)

Pretenders seems to favour a hero hammer or hero anvil style of play and it's the host I've been running, but I haven't played enough yet to know which I prefer.

Does the Invaders host do anything anymore? No one ever mentions it post AoS2... I wonder if this will pick up again with a battletome release, provided GW gives us heroes with command abilities; Khorne & Nurgle have 6ish each, but Tzeentch only has 2...

Fyi, a single unit of Seekers have been the shock-upset MVPs in several of my games now, to the point where I'm considering running 5 more to see what happens... 

[Rock Lobster]

32 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:

So how do the hosts look now?

Seekers host seems pretty good once you mitigate the downside; Daemonettes and Seekers (which are the bulk of what I own. 😅)

Pretenders seems to favour a hero hammer or hero anvil style of play and it's the host I've been running, but I haven't played enough yet to know which I prefer.

Does the Invaders host do anything anymore? No one ever mentions it post AoS2... I wonder if this will pick up again with a battletome release, provided GW gives us heroes with command abilities; Khorne & Nurgle have 6ish each, but Tzeentch only has 2...

Fyi, a single unit of Seekers have been the shock-upset MVPs in several of my games now, to the point where I'm considering running 5 more to see what happens... 

Invaders is very pointless now. If they changed it to spend a command point and each of your 3 generals can use their command ability it would have some potential interesting value in lists (a bit like archaon), as it is now it does nothing and comes with a glaring downside. Pretenders have been comparatively nerfed by changes to warscrolls which allow the numerous units that would get reroll 1s to get that innately, but you still benefit from 2 command traits so it is not terrible. The big winner is seekers, which continues to provide the extra movement, but has also been blessed with another fast moving and hard hitting unit in the fiends to take advantage of the substantial +2 to move and charge.

Glad to hear seekers (the unit) is doing well for you. I would strongly recommend those are kept to a pretenders list rather than seekers though, as with the seekers ability there is no way to stop them charging to their deaths.

[Enoby]

Just managed to sneak a peak at a box opening, and the Infernal Enrapturess is only 6 depravity points to summon! 

[Tzeentchmike]

24 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Just managed to sneak a peak at a box opening, and the Infernal Enrapturess is only 6 depravity points to summon! 

That makes him a lot more tempting to include in a summoning pool 

[azdimy]

32 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Just managed to sneak a peak at a box opening, and the Infernal Enrapturess is only 6 depravity points to summon! 

Get ready for an faq in 2 weeks !

[Rock Lobster]

27 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Just managed to sneak a peak at a box opening, and the Infernal Enrapturess is only 6 depravity points to summon! 

Are you sure? That must be a mistake, typically units are circa 1 depravity point per 10 points, slight discount for keeper and exalted keeper and big discount for 20 daemonettes. She is 120 so I expected 12.

Funny thing with that depravity cost is you can have 6 of them as you characters then:

Turn 1: generate 6 depravity points in your hero phase and immediately summon a 7th in your movement phase. Shoot with all 7 in your shooting phase, likely netting another 5-6 depravity points

Turn 2: Genrate 7 depravity points in your hero phase and combine with those earned with shooting last shooting phase to summon an 8th and 9th, let fly with those 9 in your shooting phase.

Turn 3: rinse and repeat... the Enrapturess hyperloop is born

The funny thing is that even when your opponent kills them, outside of mortal wounds you can quickly replenish these girls. If an opponent kills 3 enrapturesses, that gives you enough points to summon 2 more. That army could be comically frustrating.

 

[Rock Lobster]

1 minute ago, azdimy said:

Get ready for an faq in 2 weeks !

I agree, dont buy 6+ enrapturesses on this basis. She will be minimum 10 points to summon.

[Poryague]

14 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

I agree, dont buy 6+ enrapturesses on this basis. She will be minimum 10 points to summon.

Make that 12 they like the fluffy god number theme.

[Poryague]

They need to do something about the base herald it is under whelming. They could make it cheaper or give it something new on its warscroll. Especially if they decide to keep the hag queen at 60 points.

[Waiyuren]

I wonder... I was looking at the summoning list just recently and thinking it looked a bit weird. 

Some units seem close to a 10/1 ratio, but others are way off like the seeker chariot (12dp). It seems more likely that they've decided to make everything a multiple of 6 and then made arbitrary groupings without giving much thought to the actual in-game strength of each unit (the exalted seeker chariot is also 12dp...).

Maybe they've had a rethink, and realised that's not ideal? 😒

edit; base heralds need to be wizards!

Edited December 19, 2018 by Waiyuren

[Rock Lobster]

1 minute ago, Poryague said:

Make that 12 they like the fluffy god number theme.

Although lets be fair, the Enrapturess Hyper loop would be highly entertaining but not very strong. First turn there are 7 of them. If you are lucky enough to go up against something like a Maw Krusha 7 x 2+ / 3+ / Rend-3 DD3 could net you 6-8 wounds turn 1. Fun for summoning, a little underwhelming for 7 characters going nuts.

[Rock Lobster]

2 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:

I wonder... I was looking at the summoning list just recently and thinking it looked a bit weird. 

Some units seem close to a 10/1 ratio, but others are way off like the seeker chariot (12dp). It seems more likely that they've decided to make everything a multiple of 6 and then made arbitrary groupings without giving much thought to the actual in-game strength of each unit (the exalted seeker chariot is also 12dp...).

Maybe they've had a rethink, and realised that's not ideal? 😒

edit; base heralds need to be wizards!

I think if the base herald were also a wizard that would give some utility, although at 60 points and a goblin shaman being 80 she would need to be at least 80 points for that to be fair.

The other option would be to give them an ability that allows them at least to supplement a unit without wasting an activation like some of the Khorne heralds have. I.e. if you activate and attack with the herald, then you can attack with another of your units within 6" as well.

[Waiyuren]

80pts would be fair, or a priest like the hags? Although I'm not a fan of prayers.

I've been experimenting with summoning heralds; they only need to do 2 wounds then die to pay for themselves and get resummoned. If all non-chariot heralds end up being 5 wounds and 6dp, that could be one heck of a toolbox.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Waiyuren
Grammar

[Rock Lobster]

36 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:

80pts would be fair, or a priest like the hags? Although I'm not a fan of prayers.

I've been experimenting with summoning heralds; they only need to do 2 wounds then die to pay for themselves and get resummoned. If all non-chariot heralds end up being 5 wounds and 6dp, that could be one heck of a toolbox.

Indeed, that is what I had heralds on seekers in to do. Useful for popping cheaply onto gravesites or objective or sending a wave in to earn back their own depravity as a distraction. I think the enrapturess does the job better now though with shooting. If you have the super fast exalted keeper (or 2 in my case_ you could do worse than going in and earning a bunch of depravity points turn 1, then maybe summoning 3 of these turn 2 that can immediately shoot and earn more. Chances are that turn 3 you can gain 3 depravity from the ones that are there, add them to any further damage from your lord and their shooting and summon a couple more. Rinse and repeat.

[Enoby]

I am 99% sure I am correct in remembering that the IE was 6 depravity points to summon. This means that there's nearly no reason not to summon her over a normal herald, especially as she still gets her shooting and rerolling casting aura. That said, I'm unsure as to whether she'll stay at 6 dp for a long time - she seems too cheap at that level. 

[kenshin620]

5 hours ago, Poryague said:

They need to do something about the base herald it is under whelming. They could make it cheaper or give it something new on its warscroll.

I think it may become a wizard? Seems weird the heralds all (except khorne) used to be wizards in WFB, but slaanesh heralds lost that ability vs the other 2.

 

Then again Daemon Princes used to be wizards but now only tzeentch ones can do that.

[Carnith]

Remember that fiends are also 12 DP but probably should be around 18. They are good on the table, but are great for a later game summon to just mess up some casters or monsters.