Rock Lobster Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I think seekers would be correctly costed the same as 10 daemonettes. As it is, at 20% more with much less hitting power and not benefiting from a large unit discount, they are a poor cousin to daemonettes and fiends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said: I think seekers would be correctly costed the same as 10 daemonettes. As it is, at 20% more with much less hitting power and not benefiting from a large unit discount, they are a poor cousin to daemonettes and fiends. I agree that they could do with a points reduction, and perhaps battline under some circumstance (maybe Seekers Host). I think GW overvalued their speed and didn't realise how little damage they tend to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poryague Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Enoby said: Yeah, I agree. While I don't think they're amazing must have units by any means, they're not bad. I've found them best as use of them is against high powered shooting; someone has a canon? Kill the crew. Irondrakes? They'll be waisting their shots. Jezzails? They may just run. Almost no chance they'll stay within 12" of the herald, though. No hero stays in range for their locus I cant see them staying in range of the harp. Unless the harp needs support and you run them to her aid from whatever they were doing. Thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Enoby said: Yeah, a +1 to wound (or even just a aura of rerolling 1s to wound) would be great. Maybe another herald will do that (after all, they did have two new Nurgle heralds). Do you reckon we're going to be a magic light army when we get our book. The Infernal Enrapturess looked like a wizard and was in a box that could have benefited from something for Karanak to dispell, but yet we still don't have anything besides the Keeper. That said, the IE reroll successful casts seems very useful as we normally suffer from spells. What do people think of the battalion? Worth using? That’s why I never leave home without a chaos sorcerer lord 160 pts is a lot but he really helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Poryague said: No hero stays in range for their locus I cant see them staying in range of the harp. Unless the harp needs support and you run them to her aid from whatever they were doing. Thats about it. Have to have a herald on a steed. That'll keep up with them. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Just now, Tasman said: Have to have a herald on a steed. That'll keep up with them. Right? Unfortunately, probably not. I don't know if daemonettes get heavier the more important they are, but the herald on steed only has a move of 12". Even when running her, she'll have an average of 16", which isn't enough to keep up with the average 21" movement (+any charges they may make). By the by, but if you use the command ability to roll a 6 to run on the seekers, are both dice changed to a 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Enoby said: Unfortunately, probably not. I don't know if daemonettes get heavier the more important they are, but the herald on steed only has a move of 12". Even when running her, she'll have an average of 16", which isn't enough to keep up with the average 21" movement (+any charges they may make). By the by, but if you use the command ability to roll a 6 to run on the seekers, are both dice changed to a 6? Good question, but I'm going out on a limb here and say that only one of two can be a 6........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karragon Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 50 minutes ago, Tasman said: Good question, but I'm going out on a limb here and say that only one of two can be a 6........ RAW I'd say it just makes the total a 6: Quote If you do so, the run roll is treated as being a 6. It doesn't mention a die or the dice at all 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Its a shame with the seekers, nothing faster in the game, but they just hit like wet noodles and die like flies. Their speed is a great asset but also a big liability as you are right, nothing that could support them can keep up with them. The idea of them is super fun though, with seekers host and cogs their average move and charge is 36", average. That is insane. I dont know how you balance a unit like that as if you make them at all killy then there is an invisible line you can easily cross where you remove a lot of fun from the game for players by guaranteeing the get blended turn 1 almost anywhere on the table. Even if they lined up everyone on the back of the board, your minimum base size is circa an inch which puts you 35" away from these guys on the 12" line. There would be no where to hide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poryague Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said: Its a shame with the seekers, nothing faster in the game, but they just hit like wet noodles and die like flies. Their speed is a great asset but also a big liability as you are right, nothing that could support them can keep up with them. The idea of them is super fun though, with seekers host and cogs their average move and charge is 36", average. That is insane. I dont know how you balance a unit like that as if you make them at all killy then there is an invisible line you can easily cross where you remove a lot of fun from the game for players by guaranteeing the get blended turn 1 almost anywhere on the table. Even if they lined up everyone on the back of the board, your minimum base size is circa an inch which puts you 35" away from these guys on the 12" line. There would be no where to hide. The average is 37" in that scenario because you can easily start next to hero for the +1" to run but not the charge because your gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Poryague said: The average is 37" in that scenario because you can easily start next to hero for the +1" to run but not the charge because your gone. Haha, running over 37" inches just to tickle them and do little else seems very slaaneshi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poryague Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Just now, Rock Lobster said: Haha, running over 37" inches just to tickle them and do little else seems very slaaneshi... Well it depends as they are kinda killy you can launch them with keeper of secrets double pile in and attack on them. This could change further once we get a battltome. So they can be wonderful Assassin's depending on what your fighting and if your opponent messes up the screen. That could potentially delete something annoying on the back line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I think the idea is that your seekers can run off and catch anyone. Need an objective? Seekers can get there. Need something to tie up some crappy archers? Seekers can do that. The problem is that they are just a blah roadblock. Fiends will do better at holding up elite infantry and murdering some not-excessive boys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 What rule could comfortably turn seekers into a good unit? I'm thinking being better on a charge, maybe (extra attack on 5 or 6 on charge)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poryague Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Enoby said: What rule could comfortably turn seekers into a good unit? I'm thinking being better on a charge, maybe (extra attack on 5 or 6 on charge)? Could be a better hero bonus they really dont need the additional movement. Maybe some reroll 1 to wound. Spells or prayers could give a bonus to rend. Maybe somthing to boost damage in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poryague Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) in the belloflostsouls unboxing when he was flipping through pages if you play it slow motion you can make out the points. 120 seekers 100/270 daemonettes 120 infernal enrapturess 180 fiends 120 battalion hopefully will have a proper review of this soon and the app updates soon. Edited December 15, 2018 by Poryague 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 So I decided to see what 4chan's TG board was saying about the new Slaanesh stuff in the sigmar board. Some guy was super mad about daemonettes losing the 6+ for additional hits because he used what he called "the only way to play slaanesh" with using the icon to boost daemonettes. I mean, really the biggest nerf to Slaanesh was daemonettes now having to be wholly within 9" of a daemon hero to make enemies reroll 6's. But not losing out on extra hits because of a debuff, and pretty much natively always having reroll 1's in the squad regardless of squad size from Pretenders, we are still doing well. If those points from above are true, then I made a list. Allegiance: ChaosHerald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)Chaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)2 x Hellflayers Of Slaanesh (160)2 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (200)- War Flail5 x Seekers Of Slaanesh (120)5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spearArcanite Cult (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 145 The 2 hellflayers and 2 gorebeasts are the fiends of Slaanesh and the 2 heralds are the Infernal Enrapturess. Allegiance: ChaosHerald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Chaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)Keeper Of Secrets (260)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)2 x Hellflayers Of Slaanesh (160)2 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (200)- War Flail5 x Seekers Of Slaanesh (120)5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spearArcanite Cult (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 155 This list has a downgraded keeper, but adds in a second enrapturess and a basic herald. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poryague Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, carnith said: So I decided to see what 4chan's TG board was saying about the new Slaanesh stuff in the sigmar board. Some guy was super mad about daemonettes losing the 6+ for additional hits because he used what he called "the only way to play slaanesh" with using the icon to boost daemonettes. I mean, really the biggest nerf to Slaanesh was daemonettes now having to be wholly within 9" of a daemon hero to make enemies reroll 6's. But not losing out on extra hits because of a debuff, and pretty much natively always having reroll 1's in the squad regardless of squad size from Pretenders, we are still doing well. If those points from above are true, then I made a list. Allegiance: ChaosHerald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)Chaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)2 x Hellflayers Of Slaanesh (160)2 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (200)- War Flail5 x Seekers Of Slaanesh (120)5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spearArcanite Cult (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 145 The 2 hellflayers and 2 gorebeasts are the fiends of Slaanesh and the 2 heralds are the Infernal Enrapturess. Allegiance: ChaosHerald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Chaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)Keeper Of Secrets (260)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)2 x Hellflayers Of Slaanesh (160)2 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (200)- War Flail5 x Seekers Of Slaanesh (120)5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spearArcanite Cult (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 155 This list has a downgraded keeper, but adds in a second enrapturess and a basic herald. the change is a buff the banner only worked for 1 turn anyways chance for a successful hit and wound under old system horde bonuses 5+ extra attack is 33.3% (not counting rerolls) chance for a successful hit and wound under new system horde bonuses 5 and 6 count as 2 hits is 41.6% (not counting rerolls) % of attacks to successfully wound after taking save into consideration this assuming the target is susceptible to rend. (not counting rerolls) old system 6=33.3% 5=27.7% 4=22.2% 3=16.6% new system 6=41.6% 5=34.6% 4=27.7% 3=20.8% the daemonettes have better damage output and are simpler to roll for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 The enraptures is very good value at 120 points. Makes a legitimate choice between an exalted daemon and three of these and 60 points spare for the same points. 180 for the fiends puts them in line with ironjawz brutes that seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogypies Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Slightly off the new stuff, but i'm looking for a little feedback on a list, i'm trying to keep a nice balance of demon/mortal and just made my "Elegant Elephant" which i'm desperate to put in a list Allegiance: Slaanesh- Host: PretendersMortal Realm: GhurChaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)Lord Of Slaanesh On Daemonic Mount (140)Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)- General- Trait: Allure of Slaanesh - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm - Slaanesh Allegiance Option: Devotee of Torment (Second Command Trait)The Masque Of Slaanesh (80)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spear5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spearChaos War Mammoth (320)Total: 1980 / 2000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Moogypies said: Slightly off the new stuff, but i'm looking for a little feedback on a list, i'm trying to keep a nice balance of demon/mortal and just made my "Elegant Elephant" which i'm desperate to put in a list Allegiance: Slaanesh- Host: PretendersMortal Realm: GhurChaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)Lord Of Slaanesh On Daemonic Mount (140)Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)- General- Trait: Allure of Slaanesh - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm - Slaanesh Allegiance Option: Devotee of Torment (Second Command Trait)The Masque Of Slaanesh (80)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spear5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spearChaos War Mammoth (320)Total: 1980 / 2000 Looks good to me. That said, I'm not sure how much the chaos lord on manticore will do. Do you have a plan for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Moogypies said: Slightly off the new stuff, but i'm looking for a little feedback on a list, i'm trying to keep a nice balance of demon/mortal and just made my "Elegant Elephant" which i'm desperate to put in a list Allegiance: Slaanesh- Host: PretendersMortal Realm: GhurChaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)Lord Of Slaanesh On Daemonic Mount (140)Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (440)- General- Trait: Allure of Slaanesh - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm - Slaanesh Allegiance Option: Devotee of Torment (Second Command Trait)The Masque Of Slaanesh (80)Herald Of Slaanesh (60)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)30 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (270)5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spear5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)- Claw spearChaos War Mammoth (320)Total: 1980 / 2000 That is brilliant 😂 No real feedback on the list. I like the big blobs of daemonettes. I really like the hero selection. And absolutely love the elegant elephant 🐘 😂 only thing your are missing that I always include is the sorcerer lord. I think he is fantastic value for the the re-rolls one spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Azur updated with Slannesh & Khorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogypies Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Enoby said: Looks good to me. That said, I'm not sure how much the chaos lord on manticore will do. Do you have a plan for him? Mainly there for that once in a lifetime chance of the 12 to cast 12 6's and then 12d3 😛 But seriously, mainly the quick moving deny and ability to throw the shield out there and a decent depravity/cost ratio. Quote That is brilliant 😂 No real feedback on the list. I like the big blobs of daemonettes. I really like the hero selection. And absolutely love the elegant elephant 🐘 😂 only thing your are missing that I always include is the sorcerer lord. I think he is fantastic value for the the re-rolls one spell. What would you consider removing for the foot sorcerer (I'd assume it'd just be dropping the manticore option)? I went out on a whim buying me that LOTR Mamuk, just need to fancy up the Howdah and just..have to put him on the table 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 40 minutes ago, Moogypies said: What would you consider removing for the foot sorcerer (I'd assume it'd just be dropping the manticore option)? I went out on a whim buying me that LOTR Mamuk, just need to fancy up the Howdah and just..have to put him on the table Haha no I like the manticores it’s good value in the list. Movement, depravity, pretty cheap for what it does. But without a spell lore the option are a bit to limited. I think drop the herald and masque. But to be fair I would drop the herald for a command point most of the games and havent played the masque yet so can’t really judge that descision. Easiest move might be drop the herald and 5 hellstrisers. That leaves the lord on snake and masque as hero’s with the daemon keyword to back up your daemonettes. You could just drop the lord on snake but the double pile in on the elegant elephant is too good to pass up I imagine 😂 all in all it’s down to personal preference and playtesting I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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