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AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

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That's right.  Allegiance abilities like the Lore Spells are not available to allies.  

BUT.... Guardian of Souls CAN take an extra spell, and from either Lore to boot, since it is now LoN legal.  Makes no sense tbh, but is in keeping with RAW.

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5 hours ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

That's right.  Allegiance abilities like the Lore Spells are not available to allies.  

BUT.... Guardian of Souls CAN take an extra spell, and from either Lore to boot, since it is now LoN legal.  Makes no sense tbh, but is in keeping with RAW.

I firmly expect this to be errata'd away any day now.  I'm honestly surprised it wasn't addressed in the initial round of 2e faqs.

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No more Lords of Sacrament in Grand Host it seems:
 

Quote

 

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)?

A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

 

 

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4 hours ago, Sception said:

I firmly expect this to be errata'd away any day now.  I'm honestly surprised it wasn't addressed in the initial round of 2e faqs.

I've a feeling the faqs are created by lots of different people so not necessarily coordinated together to reveal things like this.  It would also explain why in the Designer Commentary (aka FAQ to normal folk) they're still talking about the 9" Death March and not the Errata'd 12" ;)

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1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

No more Lords of Sacrament in Grand Host it seems:
 

 

From Legions of Nagash FAQ: (Designers commentary)

Q: Can the warscroll battalions for specific Legions be taken outside of the Legion named on their warscrolls? A: The First Cohort can only be taken as part of the Grand Host of Nagash (because the other Legions cannot include Nagash). Any other battalions for specific Legions can be included as part of a different Legion as long as that Legion also includes the Mortarch that must lead it. For example, to include the Court of Nulahmia in a Legion of Sacrament army, the army would also have to include Arkhan the Black (because if the Legion of the Sacrament has any Mortarchs, one must be Arkhan).

 

The thing is, since these warscroll battallions are part of the LoN book, they all inherently have the keywords for all the sublegions. They are not allies.

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Just flicking through things in my head.  I'm currently planning to ally in a unit of Myrmourn Banshees (because the models are ace and it's extra unbind/endless protection).  I'm trying to work out if I'd be able to use my Gravesites to heal or my Endless Legions command ability?

I can actually argue this both ways... 

One - they wouldn't as those are Allegiance Abilities and allies cannot benefit from them.

Two - they would as allegiances don't "exist" once you start playing the game and as such you run the ability as written and Banshees fulfil the keyword requirement (Endless Legions has even been errata'd to remove the allegiance keyword).

Before I wing a question into the FAQ guys, I just thought I'd enquire to see if anyone here was aware of a paragraph somewhere that I've missed.

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I haven't got my hand on 2.0 book yet, do we get Free summoning like the other factions get?

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There is no „free“ summoning...

we can finally use our endless legion abilities (set up destroyed summonable unit within 9“ of a gravesite) for the cost of one command point.

flesh eater court finally get to use their command abilities ONCE per game ( well there you have free summoning)

other armies need to rack up some kind of points (nurgle corruption, seraphon spell thingies) with are then used to pay off some points for the models.

so yes, we have a usable summoning mechanic, if your overreaching Black knights/hexwraith got destroyed after an heroic charge, you can endless legion them.

Not broken but pretty useful...

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So reading through the generals handbook today, none of the new nighthaunt are under legions of Nagash, they are under nighthaunt instead.

does this mean the blurb in battle for glymmsforge about being able to take them in a LoN army is now no longer valid in matched play?

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10 minutes ago, Arentius said:

So reading through the generals handbook today, none of the new nighthaunt are under legions of Nagash, they are under nighthaunt instead.

does this mean the blurb in battle for glymmsforge about being able to take them in a LoN army is now no longer valid in matched play?

 They can be taken as allies:)

 

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49 minutes ago, Thostos said:

 They can be taken as allies:)

 

Which was my concern the battle for glymmsforge book says I can take them as my main force...luckily I spotted the errata! They added the warscrolls for the 4 legions in the Nagash battletome so all is well

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So the Warscroll Builder has been updated with the new Nighthaunt bits - so time to have a play at building a list :D

Quote

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Neferata Mortarch Of Blood (400)
- General
Vampire Lord (140)
- Artefact: Grave-sand Timeglass 
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80)
- Allies

Total: 1790 / 2000
Extra Command Points: TBC
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 131

I've not 100% firmed up the spells yet and may even move the Artefact onto my Guardian of Souls.  I do also need another 160ish points.

The 10 Skeletons & 10 Chainraps will be my 'objective holders', going for one of each as I think it'll look nicer on the tabletop.  Basic theme of the army is that I hopefully can bring back a decent number of models each turn, but I'm undecided on what to grab for the remaining points?

So thoughts an opinions?  Have I done anything glaringly silly?

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31 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

So thoughts an opinions?  Have I done anything glaringly silly?

As a new player I'm just curious, why Neferata?

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8 minutes ago, arka0415 said:

As a new player I'm just curious, why Neferata?

Couple of reason.  First and foremost I really like the model :D  The thought of her commanding her legions of undead is just one that's always stuck in my head - ultimately I'd also like a couple of her female vampire thralls included too.  Secondly, her -1 to hit bubble is really good at shutting down some troublesome units - in my case it's hordes of Blightkings that I often face from one friend - being able to stop that phenomenally powerful exploding 6 mechanic means that my skeletons last that little bit longer.

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Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash

Leaders
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
Necromancer (110)

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds

Battalions
The First Cohort (160)

Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

 

any thoughts?

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2 hours ago, choocheelo said:

any thoughts?

I get the appeal of the extra command point, between that and the cohort, you can use Nagash's command ability every turn, and still have two points left to resummon slain units.

That said, dropping the extra point gets you enough for a cairne wraith, which would allow you to take both the ossific diadem and the gravesand timeglass, and you'd still have one point spare for endless legions.  Do you really think the opponent is going to successfully carve through 40 skeletons twice over in the same game?

Otherwise, it looks more or less like what I'd imagine a typical first cohort list to look like in 2e, and should be right nasty against any opponent who can't put 30 wounds on nagash or kill 80 unbreakable skeletons within the first couple battle rounds, which is to say, against most anyone.

I don't recommend it for casual play.

Edited by Sception

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3 hours ago, choocheelo said:

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash

Leaders
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
Necromancer (110)

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds

Battalions
The First Cohort (160)

Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

 

any thoughts?

Exactly the list I’d like to run except for the part about painting 90 skeletons. Man I wish they sold them in boxes of 20. Buying 9 Boxes makes me feel. And now that I think about it, BUILDING and basing 90 skeletons sounds worse than painting them.

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1 hour ago, Sception said:

I get the appeal of the extra command point, between that and the cohort, you can use Nagash's command ability every turn, and still have two points left to resummon slain units.

That said, dropping the extra point gets you enough for a cairne wraith, which would allow you to take both the ossific diadem and the gravesand timeglass, and you'd still have one point spare for endless legions.  Do you really think the opponent is going to successfully carve through 40 skeletons twice over in the same game?

I like your thought here, but his list is 1990 as is.  The command point is from the batallion.

It brings up an interesting point, in that you do not "pay" for command points, so you should never be "spending" 50 points in your list for one.  You get them automatically for being short.  

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This is my own very similar list that I plan to use to start off with. It's tight. You really think the portals are worth it over having some Black Knights? I think Black Knights seem really good now because you can be a bit reckless with them, bring them back and they actually have the movement to get up the table again after being brought back.

Leaders
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Ossific Diadem 
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Vile Transference (Vampires)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds
5 x Black Knights (120)

Battalions
The First Cohort (160)

Endless Spells
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

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Looking at a First Cohort list, like a lot here, and I'm pretty torn. 

I've already included Umbral. I've 50 points left and I can't decide between an extra CP or a couple extra bits of Malign Sorcery. Those spells are just so ridiculously cheap! 

Just wondering what you guys think is generally better: the extra CP or extra spells?

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what's the rest of your list?  Do you have another caster, or is it just nagash?  What's your battleline like: msu, or one big skittle block, or two?  In general, I'd go for the extra command point in your situation, but depending on the rest of your list I could see it going either way.

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So, are morghast archai with swords completely useless in 2.0? 

For 60 less points varghesits have the same base attacks, but generate bonus attack for each model killed, and keeps generating over and over now in 2.0...

 

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archai are taken for the extra protection from mortal wounds, something they'll still have over vargheists, but is mostly only mechanically preferred in the first cohort formation, in which vargheists are not an option.

harbingers are taken for the extra charge distance, which they still have over vargheists and which still makes them a better speedy offensive hammer in many cases, particularly legion of night outflanking, though that isn't relevant here.

In legion of nagash, vargheists have 10 attacks for 160 points, and have a 1/6 chance of making additional attacks when they kill enemy models, compared to morghasts with swords, which are 220 points for 12 attacks (morghasts have +1 attack in legion of nagash).  To have the same number of attacks, vargheists have to kill an average of 12 models with their initial round of attacks, which is possible but unlikely.  But they do cost less to start.  They have the same number of wounds.  vargheists have a worse save, and don't have archai's extra protection from mortal wounds, but again are cheaper.  vargheists move faster, but don't have the extended charge range of harbingers.

In general, vargheists compare generally favorably to sword-armed morghasts, especially in legion of blood or sacrament armies, but that's not really the comparison you should be making, because morghasts in general should probably be taking the halberds regardless, and then the quality of the attacks generated start looking very different.  -2 rend is very hard to come by in a legion of nagash army, and the total damage output of 8 attacks at 3 damage is noticeably higher than that of 10 2 damage attacks even in cases where the extra rend isn't relevant.

In general, I would lean towards morghasts in LoN armies as a result.  Again, especially for the extra rend.  enemies where that extra rend isn't relevant can probably be poked to death with skittle spears anyway.  But vargheists are far from a bad unit.  and the comparison is no where near as lopsided as it is for, say, skeletons vs. grave guard.

 

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