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RuneBrush

AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

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9 minutes ago, Honk said:

His what?!? We are talking about Nagash, THE GREAT NECROMANCER?! 😅

You could use CAs on him from the vamp, vhordrai, dragonlord, mannfred or the coven throne.

but it’s costly CP wise and points in heros...

I would have a screen of dogs before him, the you can use his reach. He can dish out, but his magic suffers most and that’s why you field him.

Just do the quick&dirty math 

16hp -> 18,6 deathless -> 28 3+ saves -> 56 4+ wounds -> 112 4+  hits... 112 attacks from skellis/ghouls will do him in one go, he is not worth his 800 points (Arkhan as option) when you’re in 3. bracket (<10hp) that’s -7hp -> 8,2 deathless -> 12 3+ saves -> 24 4+ to wound -> 48 4+ to hit... 

just 48 attacks from grunts, like 10 reavers near a banner, 20 ghï»żouls, etc.

yes, CA says reroll save of 1; regeneration through vile transference, soul harvest and soul steal is possible, good screening minimizes attacks, but something like durthu and a bit of bad luck and he is back on his throne in shyish contemplating revenge

So my thinking was yes, his magic is incredible - but if you have him dealing damage in combat as well, surely he becomes even more valuable? 

The great necromancer is also a literal god of death with a nasty sword and staff to WHAP! unsuspecting fools with.

The sword, staff and spirit host attacks deal a lot of damage in one turn due to good rolls and high rend/ damage.

Obviously he is vulnerable to some charges, but as a unique build it could be a fun way to run him?

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4 hours ago, Charlo said:

butï»ż as a unique build it could be a fun way to run him?ï»ż

Sure... Nagash the brawler

his attacks are tricky to rely on, due to low amounts the statistics don’t really stick.

nagash with morghast and mannfreds CA in a superelite list, funny... and wolves can be screening 1“ for the morghast and Nagash to punch from 2. line. Positioning is tricky of course. Pile in denial is possible too, but also relies on spot on model placement 

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Is the Horrorghast Endless Spell from Forbidden Power significantly larger than Nagash's head? I dislike the original model but would be tempted to kitbash the Horrorghast head onto the usual body. 

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Goodbye Grims, hello GG. I hope morghast come down in points too. Those poor guys need help

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55 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Goodbye Grims, hello GG.

Garbage by the time AoS 2.0 dropped and made stinkier with every warscroll revision other armies get with power creep.  Warscroll needs some overhaul love.  Battletomb:LoN is once again without a decent sized elite unit.  Mission accomplished GW.

55 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I hope morghast come down in points too. Those poor guys need help

Amen.

Although I do like the challenge.  They need effort and luck.

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1 hour ago, Evil Bob said:

Garbage by the time AoS 2.0 dropped and made stinkier with every warscroll revision other armies get with power creep.  Warscroll needs some overhaul love.  Battletomb:LoN is once again without a decent sized elite unit.  Mission accomplished GW.

Yeah they really broke the entire Death faction with grims. Made everything else obsolete. My hope is that points drop to GG combined with the minimum unit size of 10 will make them usable again 

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what are people expecting graveguard to be?

Id like to see around 12pts each. mv4 is a killer.

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The problem of infantry: they are super slow. I love GG but I prefer fast units.

My fav unit could have been the morghast. The mini is superb. But they actually a bit weak in this system. Nevermind, I almost put some in all my list just because of love hahahha 😍

I love also my cavalry but it is really harder to put them in a list. I have 20 of them (switchable with NH guys).

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Posted (edited)

GG going down to 140 points for 10, and 360 for max size, so not a big drop unless you are running 30 of them (which I do luckily). So with those 60 points reduction we can take the Soulseeker endless spell and try a turn one charge on the enemy, which might be awesome (I don't know if someone has got success doing so).

Other than that, Morghasts drop to 200, but substantial increases for magic tough: Necromancer goes up to 130, Arkhan goes up to 340 while Neferata and Manfred are 380 now, and our Lord Nagash also increasing to 850...

Edited by ogmaadn

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The buff to GG has actually nerfed my main list. Combined with the necro rise I now need to find 80 points. Hey ho, onwards and upwards!

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The new GG price is the same as the old Grim price so easy to slot them in for me. And slightly cheaper Morghast is welcome too. Super increased magic though is bad...at least they didnt touch my fav unit, the VLoZD

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7 hours ago, ogmaadn said:

Nagash also increasing to 850

What??? super Nagy has been nerfed???? Pfff, we'll less of him on the tables: 850 is almost half the 2k army...Maybe the drop of morghast compensate (a bit) of the up of Nagash.

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12 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Yeah they really broke the entire Death faction with grims. Made everything else obsolete. My hope is that points drop to GG combined with the minimum unit size of 10 will make them usable again 

Everything else was already outdated as of AoS 2.0.  Grimghast Reapers compared to the newest warscroll revisions aren’t anything special.  I viewed GR as the fix because GW would not update the warscrolls or point values of the original Battletomb:LoN elite choices.  Trying to force people to use other bad options is a terrible idea.

The General’s Handbook 2019 is not going to fix Grave Guard.  Nothing short of an AoS 2.0 grade warscroll has a chance.  New shiner enemy warscrolls will wipe the floor with them at any point total.  A number of the old AoS warscrolls did it as well.  Grave Guard would have to cost the same as regular skeletons before being considered a dangerous speed bump at ten models.  I might consider trying to make them work at 100 using the new endless spells.  

Frankly odds are any point drop on GG is going to be a bandaid on a severed limb.  Someone please get the GeeDub Devs a clue because they sure won’t listen to reason.

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Most Spellcasters have been raised across the armies, seems GW want to tone down magic a touch. A shame though...

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7 minutes ago, Charlo said:

Most Spellcasters have been raised across the armies, seems GW want to tone down magic a touch. A shame though...

That’s very interesting considering the current trend with prayers and special warscroll traits that can’t be dispelled.

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Morghast coming down is great, iirc haven’t the mortarchs just gone back to their 2017ghb points? 

Was actually hoping vhordrai and normal vlozd would come down in points, oh well 😔 

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its a little conservative. but i like the direction they headed with the non-summonable.

I think blooddragons are priced competitively.

Morghast should come down to 75-80. Especially compared to stormfiends and korgs. To be honest, i prefer them at 120-150pts, but buffed since currently it would probably overlap with too many other legion units.

Vargheists and blood dragons have too much overlapping similarities. I dont see the point of them with blood dragons at 200pts. They need to be redone to serve another purpose.

Blood dragons, Morghast, Vargheist. All move 10ish toughish and hit hardish. They all overlap.

Morghasts should be more expensive and better respectively.

Keep blood knights as is

Vargheist maybe faster move, and less resilient. or go other way and drop move to slow but crazy stronk melee.

That way all 3 units would be different options rather than a derivative of each other

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8 minutes ago, soots said:

its a little conservative. but i like the direction they headed with the non-summonable.

I think blooddragons are priced competitively.

Morghast should come down to 75-80. Especially compared to stormfiends and korgs. To be honest, i prefer them at 120-150pts, but buffed since curï»żrently it would probably overlap with too many other legion units.ï»ż

Vargheï»żists and blood dragons have too much overlapping similarities. I dont see the point of them with blood dragons at 200pts. They need to be redone to serve another purpose.ï»żï»ż

Blood dragons, Morghastï»ż, Vargheist. All move 10ish toughish and hit hardish. They all overlap.

Morghasts sï»żhould be more expensive and better respectively.

Keep blood knights as iï»żs

Vargheist maybe faster move, and less resilieï»żnt. or go other way and drop move to slowÂ ï»żbut crazy stronk melee.

That way all 3 units wouldï»ż be different options rather than a derivative of eacï»żh other

yes but this won't happen anytime soon as GW will not change the LoN book nore the warscrolls. Unfortunately.

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I could see trying to run grave guard as battle line at the new points.  Especially in meeting engagements.  Skittles lose a lot when you can only take them in units of 20 max, making grave guard look a bit better by comparison.  Probably not something I'd bother with outside of grand host, and still doesn't compare well if you look outside of the faction.  Yeah, grave guard can be stacked up quite a bit offensively, but so can most anything, and the guard still crumble at even the slightest breeze.  Eh.

Otherwise, I'm... ~mostly~ content with these changes.  I would have greatly preferred wight kings coming down in points instead of necromancers going up.  +20 for necromancers and +20 for shackles together hit my current lists pretty hard.

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Since the new GG is the exact same as the old Grims its pretty much a direct swap. Im going to play around with 2 units in order to take advantage of them being battleline for GHoN. Morghast coming down by 20 will help cover the ne Necromancer cost. Im glad they didnt touch the VL or VLoZD

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1 hour ago, Sception said:

Yeah, grave guard can be stacked up quite a bit offensivelyï»ż, but so can most anything, and the guard still crumbleï»ż at even the slightest breeze.  Eh.

To be fair though almost all death units just crumble. Thats why you play the long game and bring them back over and over

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True, true.  While I'm not convinced these poont changes were enough to make grave guard or morghasts grest on their own, they are enough that I'm personally looking forward to trying them out.
 

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20 hours ago, Sception said:

I could see trying to run grave guard as battle line at the new points.  Especially in meeting engagements.  Skittles lose a lot when you can only take them in units of 20 max, making grave guard look a bit better by comparison.  

Oh no.. Are skeletons being brought down to a max unit size of 20? I love the big horde look too.

About Graveyard too I'm definitely looking forward to trying them. I only have 10 with sword and board so far just for a fancy Wight King retinue but could be fun painting up some with great weapons too at some point if they are more useful. Or more sword and board of course.

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16 minutes ago, Vitch_EGS said:

Oh no.. Are skeletons being brought down to a max unit size of 20? I love the big horde look too.

Only in meeting engagements, a new matched play format for 1000 point games played on smaller tables with some additional restrictions:  https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/11/the-generals-handbook-2019-meeting-engagementsgw-homepage-post-2/

it actually sounds like a neat little format.

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Few deathrattle hordes age for now then.

Yeah that should be a fun style of play. Few games I have had with age of sigmar has always been splitting my death into two 1000pt lists to try and teach and tempt friends to get into it (no luck ofc). Games are just so quick at that level too.

Anyone have experience with Graveguard so far before the points drop? How do the two versions normally pan out?

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