MrRoff Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 And you can't use spells outside your alliance right? Got a guy who says that you can use battalions from other alliances and spells fron other alliances your army currently isnt in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 4 hours ago, MrRoff said: And you can't use spells outside your alliance right? A necromancer is not able to choose from the lore of dead while being part of a Soulblight or GA:Death army... 4 hours ago, MrRoff said: Got a guy who says that you can I was all rooting for the Castellans battalion in Soulblight or deathmarch in Legion of Sacrament, but after reading the rules, it doesn’t work for them, since they are bound to Legion of Blood and GA:Death alliance. FAQ only loosened it for within the legions (f.e. Castellans within Legion of Blood) I don’t know what type of battalions he wants to use where and how, let him show you the specific rules that allows him to cross use an alliance specific battalion and he can do it... but if the battalion has a specific alliance and his army has not, he has to ally them in, which probably doesn’t fit the 20% point limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRoff Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Honk said: A necromancer is not able to choose from the lore of dead while being part of a Soulblight or GA:Death army... I was all rooting for the Castellans battalion in Soulblight or deathmarch in Legion of Sacrament, but after reading the rules, it doesn’t work for them, since they are bound to Legion of Blood and GA:Death alliance. FAQ only loosened it for within the legions (f.e. Castellans within Legion of Blood) I don’t know what type of battalions he wants to use where and how, let him show you the specific rules that allows him to cross use an alliance specific battalion and he can do it... but if the battalion has a specific alliance and his army has not, he has to ally them in, which probably doesn’t fit the 20% point limit. An example here: In one of his armies he want to be Grand alliance destruction, but still take battalions and spells from bonesplitterz alliance. Would that work? Another example for me: If i play LoN, can i take battalions/spells from nighthaunts alliance or vice versa ? Edited January 29, 2019 by MrRoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSoup Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 8 hours ago, MrRoff said: And you can't use spells outside your alliance right? Got a guy who says that you can use battalions from other alliances and spells fron other alliances your army currently isnt in... From what I understand if your units in question are in an alligance, you cannot just cast other spells from other alligances. Now, I think if the units in question are in an allied battalion then that battalion can use things from their own alligance, but they cannot help cast spells and abilities from a separate battalion in the army. At least, that my take on it anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 6 hours ago, MrRoff said: If i play LoN, can i take battalions/spells from nighthaunts alliance or vice versa ? No... like @CaptainSoup said, you can’t just choose/cast spells across alliances (other greenskinz might count for bodies). with battalions it is a bit tricky, but to my knowledge they all have a respective alliance above their name, stating in what army they belong. You can’t play Deathmarch within a Legion of Nagash army... sounds stupid, but RAW. same counts for specific abilities outside their specific alliances: your ghoulking is not delusional as ally; your necromancer / vampire / arkhan doesn’t get extra spells from the lord of death; nighthaunt unit doesn’t get extra attacks on a 10+ charge... and so on. 6 hours ago, MrRoff said: In one of his armies he want to be Grand alliance destruction, but still take battalions and spells from bonesplitterz alliance. Would that work? We‘re not playing 40k... not if it isn’t faq‘ed his army does not have the bonesplitterz alliance, so it doesn’t get the benefits of that alliance. A necromancer in a FEC army doesn’t bring gravesites... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRoff Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Thanks guys! We have a new guy playing with us that insists that he can do that, like picking battalions from bonesplitterz when he's playing Grand Alliance destruction, aswell as bonesplitterz spells, just so he can use some units that isn't bonesplitterz like ironjaw's and still get stuff from bonesplitterz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 3 hours ago, MrRoff said: just so he can use some units that isn't bonesplitterz like ironjaw's and still get stuff from bonesplitterz. nice cherry picking... like all your vampires get to pick a bloodline, since they are soulblight, then bring some gravesites to your nighthaunts and Flesh eater court troops and everybody chooses some extra spells. it might be high-fantasy, but it´s not christmas or jule. Since he is is new, try to give him the benefit of doubt ;-D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 3 hours ago, MrRoff said: just so he can use some units that isn't bonesplitterz like ironjaw's and still get stuff from bonesplitterz. nice cherry picking... like all your vampires get to pick a bloodline, since they are soulblight, then bring some gravesites to your nighthaunts and Flesh eater court troops and everybody chooses some extra spells. it might be high-fantasy, but it´s not christmas or jule. Since he is is new, try to give him the benefit of doubt ;-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craze Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Hi fellow Deathlords, I have just looked through the CanCon lists and it became - once more - clear, that the go to lists for Death include around 50 Grimghast Reapers. Now I would like to know your opinion on what would be the next best lists in case Grimghasts get the nerfbat, which is - in my opinion - a really safe bet. Will it be Grave Guard heavy lists, or will we see something totally different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, Craze said: will we see something totally different? Depends on what the bat is batting... .40cal skellis with 2x10 dogs is still fast and sticks around like gum under your shoe. somebody (?Josh?) went all out on puppies 10/10/30... and was successful ianobs deathmarch was mostly blackknights... saw an awesome vampire idea yesterday, getting blood knights to work. cheap imba for dummies is kinda ruining a fun game. I hated sylvaneth sharpshooting my heroes, I dreaded the Ironjawz alpha back in the days, got a 3x6 skyfire treatment once... open discussions on how to deal with them best (ianob had a nice podcast on our weak spots) and , maudlin, brooding and calling for nerfs just isn’t really the way 🤷🏿♀️ if the reapers get nerfed, you just have to get creative, alternatives are out there... and maybe need to up your game a bit 🥳 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craze Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Please don't get me wrong, I did not try to cry about nerfs that have not yet happened. I myself am having 0 Reapers and am not yet really competitive. But as I plan on getting deeper into competitive play in 2019, I just wanted to start a discussion about potential alternatives for competitive Death play. You already pointed out some quite interesting ways in which Death could work after a potential nerf...Thanks for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Honk said: saw an awesome vampire idea yesterday, getting blood knights to work. Care to share? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Mutter said: Care to share? If I can find it in here... Allegiance: Legion of BloodMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersVampire Lord (140)- General- Mount: Flying Horror- Trait: Aristocracy of Blood - Artefact: Ignax's Scales - Lore of the Vampires: Vile TransferenceWight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)- Mount: SteedNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadBattleline10 x Dire Wolves (120)10 x Dire Wolves (120)10 x Dire Wolves (120)Units5 x Blood Knights (240)5 x Blood Knights (240)5 x Blood Knights (240)15 x Black Knights (360)BehemothsMortis Engine (180)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 162 stolen from @warhammernerd in the SB/LoB threat. interesting with only the small vampire, also blackknights and all the wolves... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Ah, yes, stumbled upon that after I'd asked the question and wondered whether you were referring to that list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 6:37 AM, Honk said: with battalions it is a bit tricky, but to my knowledge they all have a respective alliance above their name, stating in what army they belong. You can’t play Deathmarch within a Legion of Nagash army... sounds stupid, but RAW. I can't speak for all this orky talk but... from the most recent designer commentary. Q: Can the warscroll battalions for specific Legions be taken outside of the Legion named on their warscrolls? A: The First Cohort can only be taken as part of the Grand Host of Nagash (because the other Legions cannot include Nagash). Any other battalions for specific Legions can be included as part of a different Legion as long as that Legion also includes the Mortarch that must lead it. For example, to include the Court of Nulahmia in a Legion of Sacrament army, the army would also have to include Arkhan the Black (because if the Legion of the Sacrament has any Mortarchs, one must be Arkhan). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, lare2 said: for specific Legions be taken outside of the Legion One of the key stupidities, to be blunt, because it only specifies the legion battalions and their use in other legion armies... „deathmarch“ and the „Castellans of the Crimson Keep“ battalions are for armies with the Death alliance, so to my (not really profound or interested) knowledge you cannot take them in a Soulblight or legion army, but need to play GA:Death. it sounds stupid, it is stupid, but that’s how I would interpret the alliance requirements for those battalions. I hope that somebody says: look here stupid pg.xyz in book ?!, you always have „death“ alliance when playing SB or LoN, please quit spreading stupidity... but nobody has done so yet. Might be some core rule to army alliances I‘m not looking at. if all models have GA keyword your army has that alliance, Legion of X is just „on top“... then the same would apply to some „GA:Destruction“ battalion, from the bonesplitterz book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Honk said: One of the key stupidities, to be blunt, because it only specifies the legion battalions and their use in other legion armies... „deathmarch“ and the „Castellans of the Crimson Keep“ battalions are for armies with the Death alliance, so to my (not really profound or interested) knowledge you cannot take them in a Soulblight or legion army, but need to play GA:Death. Ha ha! That's stupidly hilarious! RAW, that's bang on. Doubt that's what they intended mind! Daft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 IF Grimghasts got nerfed how would you want to change them? Their role is...strange. If their points go up, they become useless as they bump into other units of similar cost or knock out those units of similar cost. Their points wont go down. They wont change the warscroll cuz that would just ****** off everyone. I think the real issue is that Nighthaunt itself is ****** compared to GHoN. Their spells/items/allegiance in general is sub-par. The only thing I can think of from a balancing point of view is swap Grimghasts to the allies spot. Give points reductions to other Nighthaunt units and shift around other Nighthaunt units from allies to useable in the Legions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 22 hours ago, Honk said: stolen from @warhammernerd in the SB/LoB threat. interesting with only the small vampire, also blackknights and all the wolves... Yeah it's actually helluva fun list, and hits like a steam train. It's all about keeping the vamp lord (preferably flying horror for lower profile) alive long enough to summon back the black knights at least once. I suspect if someone really wanted to they could find ways to nuke him, but as 5 wound heroes goes he's pretty tanky. 3+ in cover, with a 6++ minion save and d6 wound heal once per game. Undecided on whether its best to give him ignax for protection against spell mortals (he should be out of sight from MW shooting attacks for at least turn 1), ethereal to make him a bit more survivable after turn 1 or... as I did recently, give him the enchanted orb. Fly him up behind blood knights, either sat directly behind mortis engine (basically flying terrain) or within a wolf bubble. If your opponent forgets he has this item (likely will do as a result of staring down barrel of 15 blood knights), and flys a big beastly hero in the look on their face when you reveal it is golden. Or use him in tandem with blood knights to assassinate a big hero. If he dies next turn it doesn't matter. It's all about delivering the blood knights. Wolves are absolutely golden in this list. If I was to change anything, it might be to drop the black knights down to 10 and throw in a bat swarm (to add further protection to lord) plus an endless such as cogs. My thinking behind reducing the BK unit size, is that ideally you want them to bomb in with buff from VL and WK and if poss Vanhels and do a ton of damage (10 are rolling 40 dice, 3's and 3's 2 damage, plus 40 horses... TWICE), and then die. Then you can summon them back next turn. At 15, its quite likely they wont die in a turn and this creates the problem of VL being in right place a turn later for summoning. So, it's not the easiest list to use, and its hardly a power list. But the look on peoples faces when you drop 157 wounds with move 10" to 12" is great. So many bodies and great board control. Just keep you VL protected! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 You also get rinsed on certain scenarios where you have to hold objectives with heroes. Owch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Gonna give this version a run next week. Allegiance: Legion of BloodMortal Realm: ShyishVampire Lord (140)- General- Mount: Flying Horror- Trait: Aristocracy of Blood - Artefact: Ethereal Amulet - Lore of the Vampires: Vile TransferenceNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadTomb Banshee (80)Tomb Banshee (80)10 x Dire Wolves (120)10 x Dire Wolves (120)5 x Dire Wolves (60)10 x Black Knights (240)5 x Blood Knights (240)5 x Blood Knights (240)5 x Blood Knights (240)2 x Bat Swarms (80)Mortis Engine (180)Emerald Lifeswarm (60)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 155 Reckon the black knights will still be pretty hitty with 10, lost 5 wolves which is fine, dropped WK too... which might be too much. BUT in exchange, running a bat swarm for -1 shooting (keep VL alive), life swarm (cos blood knights are a pain to heal, and this is the only way you can bring whole models back admittedly on a 5+) and bringing two banshees. I've not really made use of these in AoS2, but with LoB, blood knights and overwhelming dread your looking at -3 to -4 bravery without much hassle. These little sisters make a nice body guard for the ethereal VL. Also figured having a couple of extra characters for holding objectives isn't a bad idea. Wish me luck! Edited January 31, 2019 by warhammernerd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Bob Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) @warhammernerd you might want to consider posting that list over here. Edited January 31, 2019 by Evil Bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 11 hours ago, warhammernerd said: dropped WK too... which might be too much. Thing is, the Blackknights mighty charge needs 2CP (Vl and Wk command) maybe a third for rerolling... then (in your original idea) another one for resummoning. So that line of attack might be tricky without extra CP. using the Blackknights charge to soften up or bind units which you don’t want to tackle with your Bloodknights, don‘t need a WK for that. 11 hours ago, Evil Bob said: you might want to consider posting that list over here. And that’s totally true too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRoff Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Deleted Edited February 2, 2019 by MrRoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRoff Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Once again, im here with more questions. Locus of Shyish If you make an unmodified casting roll of 9+ for a Death Wizard that is attempting to cast a spell from the Lore of the Deathmages or the Lore of the Vampires, and it is not unbound, then after resolving the effects of that spell you may immediately resolve them for a second time. Does this mean that for example Overwhelming Dread would be cast twice and they'll get -2 to hit rolls and -2 to bravery? How will "Soulpike" work? Will they have to roll dice equal to dubble the charge roll when they charge and take mortal wound on a +5. Which spells from the Lore of the Dead/Vampire's stack? Also, is there any rule if you have less points than your opponent you'll get to start with an extra command point? Edited February 2, 2019 by MrRoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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