AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

[JCar09]

 

I'm thinking of a list at 2000 points with nagash. There are rules of kingdoms with spells and so on, so I think it would work fine. There are also objects of kingdoms. The vampire in dragon with the ethereal object could go well, but the list would be left with very few units of endurance, only 20 grimghast, 2 of 60 wolves

[Lemon Knuckles]

I tried to read your post, but your profile picture kept making me laugh.

 

[MrRoff]

Quick question! 

 

Models that flee in the battleshock phase, can they be ressed? They weren't slayed, and almost all healing only return slain models 

Edited November 15, 2018 by MrRoff

[CaptainSoup]

8 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Quick question! 

 

Models that flee in the battleshock phase, can they be ressed? They weren't slayed, and almost all healing only return slain models 

When models flee from a failed bravery check, they are considered slain. This means that you can bring back those models since they are technically "slain." The same can be said for models that fail unit coherency or died during a deep strike (could not place them on the table).

[MrSpaceman]

On 11/7/2018 at 4:00 PM, JCar09 said:

 

I'm thinking of a list at 2000 points with nagash. There are rules of kingdoms with spells and so on, so I think it would work fine. There are also objects of kingdoms. The vampire in dragon with the ethereal object could go well, but the list would be left with very few units of endurance, only 20 grimghast, 2 of 60 wolves

I have had a similar line of thought when building the army and this is what I have come up with.

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Fading Vigour (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92
 

I love the idea of a 3+unrendable save that 're rolls 1s, give him a healing spell on top of his already stellar healing and the VLoZD is very difficult to kill.

One change to the army I have considered is dropping the spell portal for an extra CP, that way you can consistently 're roll saves of 1 (and hits I guess but the reapers often don't need that and the Vlozd only gets it for the lance attack) and have a back up CP to bring back a unit of wolves that might need to grab an objective somewhere.

It seems that when discussing how to beat death a lot of people mention range and I have noticed that our hereos quickly become the target. By only bringing 2 heroes that don't take wounds easily and have good healing you don't need to worry about that so much. All while the reapers move forward in a never ending swarm of sythes. Clever placements of the graves can keep this monstrous unit unalive¿ for the entire game as their footprint is so large that its easy to disguise your intentions with the graves.  The reapers also have much better movement than their boney counterparts. Their natural 're rolls vs larger units can also help Nagash from being bogged down by large hoards.

I have only been playing AoS for a few months so any feedback from the community would be greatly appreciated.

[CanHammer-darren]

There are usually 2 missions in any tournament that requires 3 wizards or heroes with artifacts. Having only two heroes makes those possible auto-losses or very difficult. Just keep that in mind

[Honk]

Played the arcane power scenario once against Khorne... 

Looked at each other, said: I win, now let’s make Khorne proud again...

[exliontamer]

Hello spooky scary skellingtons. I have a bunch of Death models/kits sitting around and I have wanted to start on an army for a while now, so I think I am finally going to get cracking towards a 2000 point force. I was thinking something like this as the "core" of my army:

Vampire Lord General on Steed
- Lord of Nagashizzar
- Ossific Diadem
- Amethystine Pinions
Neferata
- Overwhelming Dread
Wight King on Steed
Black Knights x 15

The idea here is to wrap the characters in Black Knights and buff the Knights up to 5 attacks each (2 base, 1 from WK trait, 1 from VL trait, 1 from LoN) on a turn where I can virtually guarantee their charge on something (base 6" with horn). This will hopefully wreck weaker units (BKs are dmg 2 on the charge), or tarpit stronger ones (with Neferata's aura and Overwhelming Dread giving their biggest threat -2 to hit). Neferata's Mist spell also basically turns them into Hexwraiths for the turn (Ethereal and fly).

So my questions are:

• Is 15 BKs too many? I know they are large-ish models and possibly won't all get to swing every time in combat, but I felt 15 would put them in the spot where they won't be wiped out in one combat either...
• Does this strat even make sense?
• What would be good to compliment or support this? I am thinking of adding Lady Olynder and a bunch of chainrasps. Olynder can add to the -1 to hit shenanigans, and is an overall good dmg/pts piece. Chainrasps would be my battleline and would stand on points/near graves in my territory to hold the fort.
• I have a VL on dragon...I hear those are good. But 440 points is a lot! Should I try to squeeze him in? Keep in mind I don't want to hit 2000 exactly as I would like a few extra CP to get my traits off when I need them.
• I am taking the VL on steed both for the modeling potential, but also for the extra attacks (why not?) since it will be taking Pinions anyway. I see people choose the wings over the steeds (and still take Pinions) a lot though...is that just to guarantee fly?

[Honk]

2 hours ago, exliontamer said:

So my questions are:

1. no, 15 BKs are a good max size imo

2. Kinda leans towards the deathmarch lists... max buffed charge unit should work, except for the times it doesn’t. It is tricky to really hit things, to reliably get the charge without getting stuck on terrain, speedbump units, whatever. A seasoned (garlic-lemon) general could charge deny and counter charge you into bone splinters...

3. Lady O doesn’t get any abilities, that’s kinda sad. If you’re set on -1 to hit spam try her out. Chainrasps in a LoN army are highly effective I heard, not playing any moaning bedsheets myself. Else I‘d recommend some 5 puppies to speedbump your enemies alpha and protect the flanks.

4. If you happen to have a VloZd, there is no harm in fieldtesting one, especially with realm rules.

5. A 6hp general in a high shooting meta doesn’t stand a change... loosing your general will severely hurt you

[Cursed]

23 hours ago, exliontamer said:

Hello spooky scary skellingtons. I have a bunch of Death models/kits sitting around and I have wanted to start on an army for a while now, so I think I am finally going to get cracking towards a 2000 point force. I was thinking something like this as the "core" of my army:

Vampire Lord General on Steed
- Lord of Nagashizzar
- Ossific Diadem
- Amethystine Pinions
Neferata
- Overwhelming Dread
Wight King on Steed
Black Knights x 15

The idea here is to wrap the characters in Black Knights and buff the Knights up to 5 attacks each (2 base, 1 from WK trait, 1 from VL trait, 1 from LoN) on a turn where I can virtually guarantee their charge on something (base 6" with horn). This will hopefully wreck weaker units (BKs are dmg 2 on the charge), or tarpit stronger ones (with Neferata's aura and Overwhelming Dread giving their biggest threat -2 to hit). Neferata's Mist spell also basically turns them into Hexwraiths for the turn (Ethereal and fly).

So my questions are:

• Is 15 BKs too many? I know they are large-ish models and possibly won't all get to swing every time in combat, but I felt 15 would put them in the spot where they won't be wiped out in one combat either...
• Does this strat even make sense?
• What would be good to compliment or support this? I am thinking of adding Lady Olynder and a bunch of chainrasps. Olynder can add to the -1 to hit shenanigans, and is an overall good dmg/pts piece. Chainrasps would be my battleline and would stand on points/near graves in my territory to hold the fort.
• I have a VL on dragon...I hear those are good. But 440 points is a lot! Should I try to squeeze him in? Keep in mind I don't want to hit 2000 exactly as I would like a few extra CP to get my traits off when I need them.
• I am taking the VL on steed both for the modeling potential, but also for the extra attacks (why not?) since it will be taking Pinions anyway. I see people choose the wings over the steeds (and still take Pinions) a lot though...is that just to guarantee fly?

15 Black knights are tanky and can do decent dmg on the charge but if your opponent manage to charge you, they will do nothing and just be anvil. You need more dmg potential so I would add 2 big blobs of grimghast or skeletons to help you get more wounds on the table and more dmg. Grimghast will surely get nerfed in the next general's handbook tho so I would wait before going all in with them. In the same vein a necromancer is a must for van hel's Dance Macabre. Attacking 2 times with your black knights, skeletons or grimghast can lead to absurd amount of attacks! skeletons can go up to 482 attacks in one fight phase if they don't lose anyone.

 

Lady Olynder is not a good choice in my opinion, she's really squishy and in a Legion list do not get any bonus from the alliegance and also no extra spell, so I would stay away from her except if you really like her model and want to merge in Nighthaunt someday.

 

As said by Honk, Dire wolves are amazing! fast, cheap and very resilient for their cost. In most games they are my mvp because they can cap objectives for cheap, protect my unit from charges, get res if you need it, charge a shooty unit to prevent it shooting your important heroes/units, etc. The possibilities are endless.   I always have minimum 2 units of 5 in every list I make. Chainrasp could be ok for an alternative and do the same job, but they cost sligtly more and are slower than the wolves.

 

Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon makes a good general because he can be really tanky with the 3+ unrendable save with the shyish artefact and he's fast to help you res unit by sprinting to a gravesite. He packs an ok punch but don't send him against the meanest thing the opponent has to offer because he still can be put down by heavy hitter units.

 

In certain matchups, Neferata is really strong (army with very few long range and units that mostly need to hit), giving -2 or -3 to hit to anyone at 15'' by stacking her command ability can shut down a whole army and assure you the victory! I've done it once against a slaves to darkness army and even tho he got the double turn against me, all his units had -2 to hit and he only managed to kill a few skeletons in 2 turns xD. But beware of long range gunline or MW spammer because she will crumble very fast!

 

Fly is very powerful in this game because movement is everything! And since the 2 vampire lord option have the same speed, you want the automatic fly always and you don't really want your vampire lord in melee, (he's really squishy!!!) the steed attacks are wasted and not that good in fact. So you are better with wings to keep him mobile. He will also have a smaller base so easier to hide him.

[exliontamer]

Thanks so much for the feedback, it will really help me make some informed choices!

[lare2]

RE: new Malign Sorcery FAQ, I might be a bit behind but...

Q: Some spells require you to pick a point on the battlefield within a certain distance of the caster, and then draw a line from that point back to the caster. Can this point be measured from an Umbral Spellportal, and if it can, is the line drawn back to the caster? A: Yes to both questions.

If I'm reading that right, this makes Orb pretty damn powerful! Not that it wasn't before mind...

Edited December 17, 2018 by lare2

[ThePie]

I was thinking of starting up a Skeleton focused army and i have a few questions..

 

Anyone here using mantic models, are they of ok quality?  They are ALOT cheaper then buying gw so i am leaning towards them, since they got models of most of the stuff i wanna use..

Will i be okay to use black knights instead of morghasts? I like both but im leaning more towards starting with the knights because i just think they are a bit cooler, but i dont know if i will lack means to deal with tough monsters/heroes with good saves.

And i was thinking of a 1000 pts starting list of something like this...

Wight King on Steed
- Lord of Nagashizzar
Necromancer
- Ossific Diadem
- Overwhelming Dread
Skeleton Warriors W/ Spears x 40
Grave Guard W/ Great Weapons x15
Black Knights x 10

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by ThePie

[Honk]

On 12/17/2018 at 11:48 PM, ThePie said:

Anyone here using mantic models, are they of ok quality?  They are ALOT cheaper then buying gw so i am leaning towards them, since they got models of most of the stuff i wanna use..

Tough question since you have to built and play and be ok with them. Spitting out a disgusting paint job kills every mini, awesome is always awesome...

please do remember, that official sides might/will take offense in your models, so if you plan playing at a tournament or a gw-store... might even get discussions at an independent store. 

My confrontation Black Knights are frowned upon, but not openly opposed, as are my square bases 😂

[Honk]

On 12/17/2018 at 5:24 PM, lare2 said:

this makes Orb pretty damn powerful!

I love the exclusiveness of the question and answer, without naming any spell personally 😂

I hope nobody gets any Soul Harvest Ideas with that... 

[CanHammer-darren]

On 12/17/2018 at 5:48 PM, ThePie said:

I was thinking of starting up a Skeleton focused army and i have a few questions..

 

Anyone here using mantic models, are they of ok quality?  They are ALOT cheaper then buying gw so i am leaning towards them, since they got models of most of the stuff i wanna use..

Will i be okay to use black knights instead of morghasts? I like both but im leaning more towards starting with the knights because i just think they are a bit cooler, but i dont know if i will lack means to deal with tough monsters/heroes with good saves.

And i was thinking of a 1000 pts starting list of something like this...

Wight King on Steed
- Lord of Nagashizzar
Necromancer
- Ossific Diadem
- Overwhelming Dread
Skeleton Warriors W/ Spears x 40
Grave Guard W/ Great Weapons x15
Black Knights x 10

 

 

Manticores skeletons come on little discs that slot into their square bases. So to base them on rounds you will have to buy the rounds then either painstakingly cut the base off and glue them on GW base, or just glue the whole disc on the gw base and hide it with basing

[Nevek]

gonna be trying this in a couple of weeks....thoughts>

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash

Leaders
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Vile Transference (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Grave-sand Timeglass
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour

Battleline
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Battalions
The First Cohort (160)

Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

 

[Honk]

10 hours ago, Nevek said:

thoughts>

It’s one of the go-to Nagash lists....

Your opponents will be prepared for this, best to be counter and double-recounter prepared 🤣👍

and of course best of luck 

 

[MrRoff]

Ok, so i have some questions:

1.   Morghast Harbingers/Archai = Yay, nay or meh ?
2.  Do you think "Endless Legion" and all out healing/ress is to strong? Just totaly crushed 3 matches yesterday, with the gravesites, Necromancer, vampire lord's, Legions Innumerable passive, "Master of Death command trait" and all other Deathly Invocation i would have, my unit with 30-40 chainrasps will never die, i just make a wall with them and attack over them with 2" attacks. A Beastclaw player did about 20+ damage against them, and after Deathless Minions 17 "died", big woop, my turn: d3 ress there, and a d3 ress there and take some more d3 ress from me oh and from him, don't forget the gravesites, and oh you're an 1 wound unit here take some more from Legions Innumerable, oh and did i say that i can reroll 1's when using Deathly Invocation?
   Oh no you "killed" my unit with 10 Grimghasts, wolololo: (Endless Legion) They're back just like that!
   Sorry to rant, but i couldn't stop feeling bad when i totaly crushed them yesterday, even i think that LoN is, well not broken but close to.
3. On the other hand, what are you gonna do against a Tzeench player that has +10 spells/turn and can summon in units for 10 faith points?!
   One of my friends owns a Lord of Change and some other wizards with an battalion gives them 1 more spell each! I'm really scared . . .

[Honk]

1. fluff yay, high competitive meh/nay

2. Dirty snowball necro dead...sad face panda. Big charge skimpy clad witches, poof goes the wall... cannon ball to the generals head, no more resummoning. If your opponent doesn’t know how to deal with your army and is not willing to adjust, he will suffer against any competent player. We have an ironjawz player at our local store who dominated till nobody wanted to play him anymore. I totally horde swamped his army with 110 ghouls and won the attrition war...

3. kill the mage first, maybe legion of night with lord on Dragon or harbringers... or turtle up on the objectives score till fourth round, er wiped, win on points... arkhan is pretty good at banning, but his/tzeentch summoning based on all successfully cast spells, so answering with lords of sacrament (all of us get +1 spell to cast) is a bit counterproductive...

[MrRoff]

5 hours ago, Honk said:

1. fluff yay, high competitive meh/nay

2. Dirty snowball necro dead...sad face panda. Big charge skimpy clad witches, poof goes the wall... cannon ball to the generals head, no more resummoning. If your opponent doesn’t know how to deal with your army and is not willing to adjust, he will suffer against any competent player. We have an ironjawz player at our local store who dominated till nobody wanted to play him anymore. I totally horde swamped his army with 110 ghouls and won the attrition war...

3. kill the mage first, maybe legion of night with lord on Dragon or harbringers... or turtle up on the objectives score till fourth round, er wiped, win on points... arkhan is pretty good at banning, but his/tzeentch summoning based on all successfully cast spells, so answering with lords of sacrament (all of us get +1 spell to cast) is a bit counterproductive...

Thanks for the tips! 

But what if he just turtle up his wizards behind / in a horde of 30 tzangoors, can't cast spells against him and we don't have range lol 

 

And to me morghast seems really strong, especially with GHoN giving them +1 attacks, and with 6hp each and 8 attacks +3+3-2 3d with their halberds seems really really strong, or is their something better for 220p in the meta? Just go full hoard with 40/40/ skeletons? 

[Honk]

2 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

But what if he just turtle up his wizards behind / in a horde of 30 tzangoors,

Bring Arkhan with Spell Portal and a soul harvest bomb... but tough list is a tough list. Also it is a point objective game, if you score more points, Nagash will resurrect your blasted remains in victory!!! (Nearly lost against Ironjawz in a battle for the pass, while wiping him turn 3.2)

the morghast look pretty strong, with strong high rend attacks, but in comparison with chainrasps or dire wolves... or against other elite fast heavy infantry like Bloodcrushers, gore-gruntas or even fulminators they are either way cheaper or have a way better damage output.

but used right (target priority, positioning, timing) they kill

[MrRoff]

Anyone know what happened with: Blade of the blood queen Battleforce?
It's not on GW's website anymore. Have they stop selling it?

[CaptainSoup]

41 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Anyone know what happened with: Blade of the blood queen Battleforce?
It's not on GW's website anymore. Have they stop selling it?

Battleforce boxes are exclusive for the year they were released. The Blood Queen Battleforce box was released in 2017 and were only around when the box was available to order. Once the orders were made and stock ran out they removed it from the store.

[MrRoff]

2 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

Battleforce boxes are exclusive for the year they were released. The Blood Queen Battleforce box was released in 2017 and were only around when the box was available to order. Once the orders were made and stock ran out they removed it from the store.

Hmm, i can swear that it was avaible for order just in october/november last i checked.
I even think that one of my mates bought it not long ago.

Are there comming other Battleforces for 2019 then? For death i mean.