AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

[Cblackaus]

Thoughts on ways  to beat the generic Slaneesh lists with Death (any version)?  They seem to be able to simply rush, quickly build DPs and swamp objectives. Any inspiration / experience / ideas  out there? 

[Charlo]

I'm hilariously considering using Nagash and 10 Direwolves as my 1000pts of a doubles event in the future. I'll be with FEC (though a fluffy knight based list I think).

Do you think it can work? What 3 spells are the best to choose for Nagash? My idea is the 3 debuff ones, so that any major threats are struck with:

-1 to hit, wound, bravery, attack, damage and only roll one D6 for charge distances.

It would be purely for fun and an "if I can" kinda thing (and also to hand of dust as many big targets as possible!)

Any tips to help make it work? 😁💀

[Death1942]

If you take the 3 debuff spells then how are you ever going to deal damage?  I think the idea is fine but you want 1 or 2 decent offensive spells to help take out enemy units as the wolves aren't going to do much on their own.

[Saxon]

Played a 1500pt game against Blades of Khorne on the weekend and it was a tight loss (16-14) with the 5th round dice roll deciding the game as the major objective was the one held by skarbrand. We both went 30pts over (friendly game). I ran the following. 

Played the following:

Arkhan the Black (340)

VLOZD - Sword, Ethereal Amulet, Amaranthine Orb (440)

Nercomancer (Vile Transference) (130)

Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)

40 Skeletons (Spears and Shields) (280)

10 Skeletons (Spears and Sheilds) (80)

5 Direwolves (70)

5 Direwolves (70)

The Khorne army was bloodletter spam (3 x 20), mighty lord of khorne on  juggernaught with Skar, Skarbrand and a Bloodsecrator. 

Played 3 objectives, 2 minor and one major chosen with a dice roll at the start of each turn.

Managed to hold the major objective for 3 turns but couldn't get my slow boys to the other ones. Curse of years sucked again and did nothing and i couldn't get arkhan away from skarbrand (forgot to move him once which was game changing).

The VLOZD is the real hammer in these games, he wiped 2 units of 20 bloodletters and killed he mighty lord on juggernaught. I feel like i should drop Arkhan against magic weak armies as he's an expensive piece that's only good for casting. On average, i get about 6 wounds off him a game with spells and spend the rest of the game trying to hide him with his average save and wound count. I think trying to run the VLOZD with morghasts to murder everything would work much better for me. 

[lare2]

10 hours ago, Charlo said:

Any tips to help make it work?

Reckon you'll be alright on the offensive. Nagash is a beast on the attack and no doubt you'll have FEC supporting. Your puppies should be just for objectives really. 

You're putting all your eggs into one basket mind - you'll want to get Naggy into combat as he'll be your big hitter but then you run the risk of losing him. 

[Charlo]

59 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Reckon you'll be alright on the offensive. Nagash is a beast on the attack and no doubt you'll have FEC supporting. Your puppies should be just for objectives really. 

You're putting all your eggs into one basket mind - you'll want to get Naggy into combat as he'll be your big hitter but then you run the risk of losing him. 

Yeah that's the plan! It's purely for fun and to make my army easy to transport  plus will be utter banter on the tabletop i'm sure.

10 hours ago, Death1942 said:

If you take the 3 debuff spells then how are you ever going to deal damage?  I think the idea is fine but you want 1 or 2 decent offensive spells to help take out enemy units as the wolves aren't going to do much on their own.

Good shout... What mix of spells would you reccomend?

[lare2]

1 hour ago, Charlo said:

Yeah that's the plan! It's purely for fun and to make my army easy to transport  plus will be utter banter on the tabletop i'm sure.

Naggy is great fun. You'll have a ball mate 👍

[Death1942]

10 hours ago, Charlo said:

Good shout... What mix of spells would you reccomend?

Anything that can dish out mortal wounds really.  1000 point games can be really rough when someone takes a beefy hero (just like you are) so having the ability to do say d6 mortal wounds to a vampire lord on zombie dragon is going to make your life a lot easier.

[Mr Spadge]

On 7/15/2019 at 2:05 AM, Charlo said:

I'm hilariously considering using Nagash and 10 Direwolves as my 1000pts of a doubles event in the future. I'll be with FEC (though a fluffy knight based list I think).

Do you think it can work? What 3 spells are the best to choose for Nagash? My idea is the 3 debuff ones, so that any major threats are struck with:

-1 to hit, wound, bravery, attack, damage and only roll one D6 for charge distances.

It would be purely for fun and an "if I can" kinda thing (and also to hand of dust as many big targets as possible!)

Any tips to help make it work? 😁💀

 

I took him to a doubles last year with 2x5 wolves 😉

 

Hes good fun, i went with overwhelming dread, vile transferrence and amaranthine orb... but my partner was also using death so we had spare wizards to bring the other spells we wanted...

As long as you are careful with him, and dont let bloodthirsters get 12" charges over your screens turn 1 😅 you can keep an eye on the malign sorcery spells/etc and overwhelm people pretty quick 😎

Edited July 16, 2019 by Mr Spadge

[Charlo]

Nice one! Any particular other tips or tricks for him?

My partner will be bringing FEC with Knights it looks like, so plenty of wounds and hard hitters. We will be outnumbered, but never outgunned 😎

[Mr Spadge]

49 minutes ago, Charlo said:

Nice one! Any particular other tips or tricks for him?

My partner will be bringing FEC with Knights it looks like, so plenty of wounds and hard hitters. We will be outnumbered, but never outgunned 😎

I'd say, much as it's a bit of a pain.... grab either a notepad (or type this up if you have a printer) - have a handout ready for EVERY spell you can cast that has a lasting effect - including the malign sorcery ones. When you have 8 effects from the big man plus other buffs from elsewhere it's easy to forget them.

Remember nagash is a pretty solid beatstick against elite characters/units but without some major buffs he struggles against hordes and his damage output, plus his spellcasting, suffers greatly when he starts taking wounds (make sure you bring a method or 2 of healing him!)

 

Make use of the 2" and 3" range of his weapons - position him 3" behind a screen and he'll get pulled into combat if the screen is charged - attacking over his screens when he piles in.

 

Other than that, just work out what buffs/debuffs you can apply from him and those around him and work out what works best for winning the scenario 😉

[Honk]

On 7/16/2019 at 7:28 AM, Mr Spadge said:

Hes good fun, i went with overwhelming dread, vile transferrence and amaranthine orb... 

Have fond memories of Nagash railgunning the orb through orcish lines...

i personally think dread/transference are almost mandatory, but maybe fading vigor would give more value.

For the orb you’ll need to be within 12“ of the enemy and then blast through your own lines, leaving you exposed.

vigor has 18“ range and the reduction of the charge move to 1d6“ makes even a 3“ charge a 1/3 failure with -1 attack is always nice.

[Mr Spadge]

The umbral spell portal is custom made for getting the orb where you want it

It's easy to screen out the hand of duSt,  not so easy for the orb

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Mr Spadge said:

The umbral spell portal

Great idea, but not within the 1k points (anymore) 😅👍

[Mr Spadge]

In my haste i forgot we werent looking at 2k 😅

But your partner can always bring the portal so still valid 😛

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Mr Spadge said:

But your partner can always bring the portal so still valid

That is so presumptuous and condescending towards your partner in general and FEC specificly, one might think you’re roleplaying Nagash

🤣👍

[Mr Spadge]

All souls belong to nagash, it is up to you as the player to make sure it happens by any and all means necessary  😅

 

But I'd always look at what spells/endless spells your opponent can bring.... I don't have my FeC book to hand, can nagash cast their endless spells? If your partner is bringing flesh eaters you could potentially use nagash to ensure the chalice goes down every turn 😉

[AHexInScarletRed]

27 minutes ago, Mr Spadge said:

All souls belong to nagash, it is up to you as the player to make sure it happens by any and all means necessary  😅

 

But I'd always look at what spells/endless spells your opponent can bring.... I don't have my FeC book to hand, can nagash cast their endless spells? If your partner is bringing flesh eaters you could potentially use nagash to ensure the chalice goes down every turn 😉

He can, yes! 

[Icefighter]

Hey! Any suggestions for a 1k~ list? Preferably lots of skeleton warriors involved but maybe there are other ways to go? I have the "start collecting box" and a pack of skeleton warriors atm

Also a very newbie question, why do you use cp's to summon for example skeletons at the start of the match instead of just fielding them? Maybe i havent understood the summoning/ressurection thingy..

Edited August 1, 2019 by Icefighter

[Sneedlewoods]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 7:22 PM, Icefighter said:

Hey! Any suggestions for a 1k~ list? Preferably lots of skeleton warriors involved but maybe there are other ways to go? I have the "start collecting box" and a pack of skeleton warriors atm

Also a very newbie question, why do you use cp's to summon for example skeletons at the start of the match instead of just fielding them? Maybe i havent understood the summoning/ressurection thingy..

Well, you don't have to spend a CP to summon a "summonable" unit which was set up in the grave at the start of the game. You'll only have to spend a CP to ressurect a destroyed "summonable" unit. One is a Battle Trait, the other on a Command Ability. :-)

The Unquiet Dead

After territories have been determined, but before any units have been set up, you may pick up to 2 points in your territory and up to 2 Points anywhere on the battlefield to be Gravesites. You may wish to place suitable markers on these points.

Instead of setting up a Summonable unit on the battlefield, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up in the grave. You can do this with as many units as you wish.

At the end of your Movement Phase, for each friendly Death Hero within 9" of a Gravesite, you may pick a single friendly unit in the grave and set it up wholly within 9" of the Gravesite and more than 9" from any enemy models. Any model that is unable to be set up in this way is slain. If a unit is still in the grave at the end of the battle, it is considered to be slain.

 

Endless Legions

You can use this Command Ability at the end of your Movement Phase. If you do so, pick a Gravesite that is within

9" of your General, and then pick a friendly Summonable unit that has been destroyed. Set up that unit wholly within 9" of that Gravesite

and more than 9" from any enemy Units.

[Icefighter]

@Sneedlewoods cool thanks! Any idea how i could build the 1k army? Maybe there is another legion that is right for me? Any cool way i could use the big guy in the start collecting skeleton horde pack? I really dont want to play with nagash.

I have heard that neferata+vamp lord work well with skeletons, but dont you need a necromancer to bring back slain skeleton warriors?

Also, why/when would you want to start with units "in the grave" instead of just fielding them?

Edited August 3, 2019 by Icefighter

[ZLee Syn]

On 8/2/2019 at 12:45 PM, Icefighter said:

@Sneedlewoods cool thanks! Any idea how i could build the 1k army? Maybe there is another legion that is right for me? Any cool way i could use the big guy in the start collecting skeleton horde pack? I really dont want to play with nagash.

I have heard that neferata+vamp lord work well with skeletons, but dont you need a necromancer to bring back slain skeleton warriors?

Also, why/when would you want to start with units "in the grave" instead of just fielding them?

If I would suggest a list it would be something like this

Manfred

Necro

20 skeletons

2x5 dire wolfs

5 black knights

Either night with claw on necromancer

Or grandhost with necromancer general, lord of nagashizar and that artefact with 6+ negations for your units. Mannfred because he is most killy out of the 3. Neferata is more defensive but your other units dont provide as much punch for that to be worth it. Arkhan is great but then you have almost none damage in close combat. If you have a vampire already then you can exchange necro for vamp. 

Nef and vamp heal even better then necro but necro buffs and debuffs are so strong that it is definitely a good investment.

There are 2 reasons to start with units in the grave. Skeletons have move 4 but you can use your fast hero (like vampire with 10) to move then chose grave in 9, then pull skeletons near that point. 28 move instead of 4. That way your infantry can get to combat at the same time as your fast hard hiting units. This helps you secure position and protect your more valuable units.

Second is to hide cheap unit and then move with hero, and pull them at a point im the end to score points. Range is move of hero + 18 (distance to grave and from grave) + 6 (area to secure point) so almost everywhrte. Just remember to setup graves well

Edited August 5, 2019 by ZLee Syn

[Icefighter]

@ZLee Syn just to clarify, you mean to play that list as grand host of nagash and not grand alliance death right? Also, can i use more skellies instead of dogs? x) thanks for the answer!

[ZLee Syn]

1 hour ago, Icefighter said:

@ZLee Syn just to clarify, you mean to play that list as grand host of nagash and not grand alliance death right? Also, can i use more skellies instead of dogs? x) thanks for the answer!

Yes, either grandhost of nagash or legion of night. You can use more skeletons for sure. I created this list the way I would build it with start collecting box. Wolfs were chosen because you get 10 in one box (so more points for money), they are mobile which is always good and theyare diferent unit so you can  try another thing. If you had 10 more skeletons i would run 30 skeletons and 5 dogs. If you had 40 skeletons then go with 30 and 10 but it is not the best option. Its always better to combine stuff.  

I havent wrote it there but you get 1 bonus command point in that list.

[Icefighter]

So if i go with your list i end up with 930, if i add 10 skeletons i get 1010. Is it better to go with 930 because of 1 command point instead of a unit with 30 skeletons instead of 20?