AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

[BoneHeart]

Hello!

I have rebased my old VC army and got into AoS not too long ago, with around 5-6 matches under my belt so far. 

I am still getting used to AoS and LoN  - or at least GHoN which I play most of the time. We are playing 1000 pts now and we will start a slow-grow campaign starting from 750 pts soon as my friends are still building their armies.

To be honest, I did not have many successes so far, with draw being the best I could do. I have played against Ironjawz, Gloomspite Gitz and will be playing against OBR (petrifex) soon. The thing is, I get conflicting advices about list building when it comes to LoN: bring max units vs bring minimum units, bring a lot of heroes vs don't bring a lot of heroes, focus on magic vs don't focus on magic and I can't really decide what should I be focusing on. 

Ironjawz just wipe me off the table with last time 15 'ardboys hand of gorked next to my 30 man GG and did exactly 30 unsaved damage to them.

My two main questions are: How do you usually deploy and how do you survive against alpha strike armies such as ironjawz? Also, what unit numbers should I be bringing as whatever the number, the orks just destroy them in the hero phase before I get the chance to strike at all, not to mention if said orks get double turn.

I am playing with lots of summonables and no ghosts at all excepts for hexwraiths.

Everyone says LoN is a solid army but I feel I am missing some very basic things here - like list building, deployment, screening etc. I also feel that my heroes (vamp+necro usually) not doing enough for their points as magic I simply cannot roll or it just got unbound by the enemy OR if none, there is no range.

Solid advice would be most welcome Thank you

 

 

[WinnerDave]

Hi Boneheart,

Not been playing GHoN all that long myself, but FWIW...

I think we're using an relatively older battletome (FEB 2018 I believe) which thanks to the most recent GHB has seen a few points increases mostly due to a fairly powerful Nagash list that was popular at tournaments.  At 1000ish point games those increases are going to hurt a lot, I think you're playing AoS on hard mode, which should ease when you hit the 2000pt level and you can start using some big boys (Nagash, VLoZD, Mortarchs, etc).

Couple of questions for you

1) What was your list against Ironjawz?

2) Did you remember to attempt to unbind Hand of Gork?  (I got caught out by this once, thinking it was an ability not a spell)

3) Did you re-summon your GG using Endless Legions? (Opponents always weep salty tears when you re-summon a unit that they just killed)

4) What artefact are you using? (So far I've always used the Ossific diadem, again opponents tend to go red faced when you roll your death saves, then pick the fails up and roll again to make some OD saves...beautiful)

5) Sounds like you were unlucky to lose all those Grave Guard have you taken shields or the Dbl handed blades.

6) Don't worry about your losses, what's the future got in store 880 pts for Nagash?  VLoZD?

[BoneHeart]

Hi,

 

1. We actually played from 1500, my list was something like:

 VL - General - Lord of nagashizzar, spirit gale, flying

Necromancer - Overwhelming dread

30 x GG - 2 handed weapons

30 x skeletons 

5 x dire wolves

5 x dire wolves

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon - hw/shield / ethereal amulet, vile transference

+1 extra command point

He was running Ironsunz

1 x megaboss 

2 x warchanters

1 x weirdnob

15 x ardboys

5 x ardboys

5 x brutes (or 4? minmum squad)

6 x gore gruntas

some batallion

2) Yes, I just did not roll enough to unbind.

3) GG was the last unit to die, so I conceded then

4) Used the ethereal amulet on the VLOZD but I am using either balefire lantern or ossific diadem

5) I was taking 2 handed weapons because there is no point taking shields since all of the orks have -1 rend against which the shields does not provide bonus save.

 

[Dongilles]

So the new FAQ is out and are surprising

Nagash is still at 850 points and not 880 as stated in the Bonereapers book

Futhermore as per Designers commentary Nagash and Arkhan still know the spells from other wizards. Does this mean both will use the LoN warscroll instead of the Bonereapers warscroll?

 

[ACBelMutie]

10 hours ago, Dongilles said:

So the new FAQ is out and are surprising

Nagash is still at 850 points and not 880 as stated in the Bonereapers book

Futhermore as per Designers commentary Nagash and Arkhan still know the spells from other wizards. Does this mean both will use the LoN warscroll instead of the Bonereapers warscroll?

 

It has been corrected today.

On the other hand. I'm a bit stuck trying to play competitive with my Legion of Nagash army. I can't beat Flesh Eaters or Slaanesh with the lists I make and I need some advises from other people who play LoN.

I tried Neferata, but it didn't work very well, so my last list was this:

Grand Host of Nagash:

• 1x Vampire Lord in Zombie Dragon - General - Ethereal Amulet
• 2x Necromancers
• 1x Guardiand of Souls
• 1x30 Grimghast Reapers
• 1x40 Chainrasps Horde
• 1x40 Skeleton Warriors
• 1x5 Dire Wolves
• Geminids Uhl-Gysh
• 1 Command Point

I chose GHoN because if anyone get at 3" from my General, they would have -1 to hit at 4+. I tried the same list in Legion of Blood with Walking Dead for mortal wounds and the extra attacks, but I need my General alive to resurrect units. And this is the reason I don't play Arkhan as General in Legion of Sacrament, because it's very easy to kill him in 1 turn and I wouldn't be able to resurrect units.

I can´t play Legion of Grief at this moment because I don't have the necesary models. My question is, what should you play? Nagash maybe?

Greetings

 

[Nightseer2012]

So... Arkhan, Nagash and Morghasts get increased points, they lose the extra spells, lose Morghasts as battleline with Nagash, and First Cohort doesn’t change even though one of it’s rules is outdated?  
 

At least Morghasts can be healed now, but First Cohort was already too expensive.

[Zanzou]

I just found out about Nagash/Arkhan's warscroll being broken in Legions of Nagash due to the Ossiarch change.  So nagash gets to know all of the lore in bonerepears, so they delete all of the wizard spells he knows from his warscroll benefit, even tho the bonereaper lore doesn't translate to legions of nagash??

2 hours ago, Nightseer2012 said:

So... Arkhan, Nagash and Morghasts get increased points, they lose the extra spells, lose Morghasts as battleline with Nagash, and First Cohort doesn’t change even though one of it’s rules is outdated?  

14 hours ago, Dongilles said:

Futhermore as per Designers commentary Nagash and Arkhan still know the spells from other wizards. Does this mean both will use the LoN warscroll instead of the Bonereapers warscroll?

 

What this means is that GW is INSULTINGLY lazy and incompetent. The errata still says MARCH in the title.  Are they even trying??? Do you really think any of these bonereaper-caused-nerfs were intentional to LEGIONS OF NAGASH, or just a bi-product where they didn't give a **** to update anything other than the latest releases properly?  Is any kind of versioning control whatsoever an entirely foreign concept to them?

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Zanzou

[Death1942]

4 hours ago, Zanzou said:

I just found out about Nagash/Arkhan's warscroll being broken in Legions of Nagash due to the Ossiarch change.  So nagash gets to know all of the lore in bonerepears, so they delete all of the wizard spells he knows from his warscroll benefit, even tho the bonereaper lore doesn't translate to legions of nagash??

What this means is that GW is INSULTINGLY lazy and incompetent. The errata still says MARCH in the title.  Are they even trying??? Do you really think any of these bonereaper-caused-nerfs were intentional to LEGIONS OF NAGASH, or just a bi-product where they didn't give a **** to update anything other than the latest releases properly?  Is any kind of versioning control whatsoever an entirely foreign concept to them?

 

We all know that they wanted to sell their new army and also shift some Nagash models so they made him usable in that army and not useable elsewhere.  They will "fix" this issue probably in late 2020 when they have sold enough bonereapers and are looking to refresh legions and sell more undead models.  They do this all the time.

[Dongilles]

The FAQ has been FAQed.

Nagash and Arkhan have had their points increased to match the Bonereaper points. But still the FAQ in regards to knowing spells from other wizards remain so its still unclear if the original warscroll can be used for Nagash and Arkhan.

Especially because the FAQ states that Cairn Wraith, Tomb Banshee, Hexwraith and Spirit hosts warscrolls are no longer used and have been replaced but nothing is said about the warscroll of Nagash and Arkhan.

[BoneHeart]

56 minutes ago, Dongilles said:

The FAQ has been FAQed.

Nagash and Arkhan have had their points increased to match the Bonereaper points. But still the FAQ in regards to knowing spells from other wizards remain so its still unclear if the original warscroll can be used for Nagash and Arkhan.

Especially because the FAQ states that Cairn Wraith, Tomb Banshee, Hexwraith and Spirit hosts warscrolls are no longer used and have been replaced but nothing is said about the warscroll of Nagash and Arkhan.

I think we are still to get a december dated proper errata and/or designer's commentary, they just rushed the publishing due to the leaks.

For Nagash and Arkhan - you have to use their current warscrolls from the app or gw website. This means Arkhan can heal morghasts but not himself in LoN

Removing Morghasts as battleline when nagash is a general is strange - this is a contradiction with the allegiance ability so prob needs a proper FAQ

[Honk]

Had a Nagash Field Day against some slaves to Darkness today...

 

those guys had more special rules than normal ones 😅 and my zombie charge ended in desaster. The knights were kinda meh, the Chosen and the Warriors were quite sturdy with a bunch of save rerolls and good mw saves with the shrine.

880 in a Legion List is ridiculous and I didn’t bring enough additional punch with me. Maybe stupid bedsheet reapers or grave guards, but even with all the arcane bolts he could throw (with corpse cart and engine for extra lolz +5), a Dragonlord or vamp with coven throne would have been sooo much better...

sad thing to see big daddy N getting pushed out of his own legion like that 😭 I will still field him and Gdubs be damnmed

Edited January 6, 2020 by Honk

[WinnerDave]

Nice one, how many zombies?

[Honk]

5 hours ago, WinnerDave said:

Nice one, how many zombies?

Using my ghouls... but of course 60. with Nagash and the corpse cart hitting 2+ reroll 1s and wounding on 3+. But even with van hels they were barely able to scratch his lines of 4+ rerolling dudes. Don’t want to accuse my beloved opponent of things, but as I said, he was buffing left and right with all type of abilities, probably CAs and battalion and whatnot, tricky to keep track  how did who what to which unit...

I used a mortis engine, maybe to defensively, vamp lord might have been better, or grimghast/grave guards.

 I‘m just playing too casually, focus firing arcane bolts, better positioning, split wolf units 2x10-> 4x5 as charge blocks might have saved the day. But getting back those 880 points in LoN is probably too tricky for me

Edited January 7, 2020 by Honk

[WinnerDave]

Have you seen Tony Moore's list that he used to win the Mancunian Carnage?

Saddens me that i'd probably have to add Ghosties to make a competitive list.  I've always liked the idea of Skeleton hordes, but I'm struggling to get any wins.  My opponents tend to be quite adept at staying outside of Nagatling gun range.

[Honk]

3 hours ago, WinnerDave said:

i'd probably have to add Ghosties to make a competitive list

I guess nothing brings the same speed AND punch AND resilience compared to stupid bedsheets 🙄

he did skill pinions for extra speed, I guess that’s a thing to get him into performance mode. But with all due respect to my mighty overlord, a bunch of stupid chaos babarians took 4hp off him in a summon&charge move. Good thing he castes transference with a 10 🤗 

a lot of things can go wrong with half your army in one model... stupid thing skillz and tactical acumen 

[Death1942]

I personally don't like the ghosts but I am running 2 in my army atm.  A big block of spirit hosts for the mortal wounds and a block of 20 chainrasps to sit on objectives and be a pain to remove.  Would love to go all skelly army (have black knights and 40 skeleton warriors) but you definitely need the utility of nighthaunt stuff to get by in the meta.

[Bademeister]

I hope there will be soon a new faq or even a reworked battletome for LoN.

Reworked Legion Abilities, maybe some new battalions, Endless Spells and/or Terrain. LoN was the first Battletome which got some of the most new things listed above but not in its final form like in the Ossiarch Bonereaper Battletome.

[Piikalo1]

If you endless legions and cant fit the whole unit outside 9 of an enemy are you prohibited from making the summon all together or do you slay whatever doesnt fit?

[KK9T]

2 hours ago, Piikalo1 said:

If you endless legions and cant fit the whole unit outside 9 of an enemy are you prohibited from making the summon all together or do you slay whatever doesnt fit?

I believe it's the first one. You can't put the unit down.

[BoneHeart]

On 1/19/2020 at 6:46 PM, KK9T said:

I believe it's the first one. You can't put the unit down.

Hmm that's interesting, I have though that with any kind of summoning - you can place the models but you have to destroy which don't fit. I know its specifically mentioned in the unquiet dead ability but not with the Endless legions one.

 

[WinnerDave]

If you scroll back 1 page, you'll see I asked this question and the response was that you can place the models that fit and destroy the rest.  From the core rules

On 10/30/2019 at 10:55 AM, Platypus said:

From the Core Rules, page 1: "Sometimes there will not be enough room to set up all of the models from a unit. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been slain."

So you set up as many as you can fit.

 

[BoneHeart]

 

 

Yes, that was it, thank you

[Piikalo1]

Is it possible to take allies and a battalion for those allies? Im assuming it would all have to be included in the 400pts? Thinking dolorous guard to protect the general

[Zaerion]

10 hours ago, Piikalo1 said:

Is it possible to take allies and a battalion for those allies? Im assuming it would all have to be included in the 400pts? Thinking dolorous guard to protect the general

ehy! i am asking for the same here:

i think that is completely legal since the whole battalion plus 2 units of hexwraiths are 400 so you could protect any general in LON as long as you accomplish the minimum number of allied units ratio ( each every 4 units 1 can be allied and hero count as units)

I honestly dont get why we never saw this in any tournament but i checked everything and few people too and it seems 100% legal.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Zaerion

[Chikrit]

Wouldn’t those battallions be available only if you go with Nighthaunt allegiance?