Sception Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Great weapons are generally better. Too many units going around with rend these days, can't actually count on the shields doing anything. It's not a huge difference, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitch_EGS Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Ah right cheers. I will keep the 10 for a simple honour guard on display then and pick up 20 great weapons to start off even. It will be a nice visual difference too from all the other spears and swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I've got 20 each of greatswords and shields, but I put spare shields on the backs of the greatsword models and spare greatswords (carefully removing the hands from the handles) on the backs of the shield models, so if I want to run 30 of just one or the other I can kind of fudge it by sticking 10 of one in the back ranks of the other. Worked better in the rank and file days of oldhammer fantasy, but I haven't had any complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 As long as the majority of the unit looks like the claimed unit, you're ok in most games 😉 (even in tournaments I think...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitch_EGS Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Yeah I should be ok. I'm lucky if I can get a game with my bro never mind anyone else. So gonna grab two boxes in the near future because I can't be letting the nighthaunt side of things outweigh the deathrattle! Them and a couple of skeleton war machine crews should fix that balance easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Sception said: True, true. While I'm not convinced these poont changes were enough to make grave guard or morghasts grest on their own, they are enough that I'm personally looking forward to trying them out. Yeah ill probaby only use them in GHoN lists as the other Legions wont have a use or benefit as much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) even with the cost increase GrimG are far superior than GG , twice the movement, more range, way better save, for 20 points more is a no brainer. GG are battle in GHoN so threres that. morghast point deacrease is interesting though Edited June 19, 2019 by Rod 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Rod said: GG are far superior than GG Solid argument there ;-D Sometimes I get a bit tired of Gdubs rules and ghb policy. Last year brought major changes in the rules, this year it’s points... this some windows re-enactment?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soots Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Rod said: even with the cost increase GrimG are far superior than GG , twice the movement, more range, way better save, for 20 points more is a no brainer. GG are battle in GHoN so threres that. morghast point deacrease is interesting though Graveguard = smaller bases. Battleline in LoN. Compulsory in deathmarch. Better at killing elites/monsters since Reapers need the 5+ models for reroll hit and raw 4+ doesnt cut it for hammer units. Can be buffed to 5 attacks each I think graveguard are still expensive, i think they should be 12 pts, especially since they are given dwarven movement. But its a step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, soots said: Graveguard = smaller bases. Battleline in LoN. Compulsory in deathmarch. Better at killing elites/monsters since Reapers need the 5+ models for reroll hit and raw 4+ doesnt cut it for hammer units. Can be buffed to 5 attacks each I think graveguard are still expensive, i think they should be 12 pts, especially since they are given dwarven movement. But its a step in the right direction. yeah, grimG can be buffed in several ways also, for me is the staying factor and movement that turns the scale. 4+ ethereal is too powerful, graveG have almost nonexistent saves. but i agree , if GraveG were 120points ill pick them over grimG for the same slot Edited June 20, 2019 by Rod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 graveG are so much more fluffy than reapers. And I'm in super love of the morghast minis. An army full of skellies is such a beauty. I just miss the (long) range units (like skel archers or skel balista/catapult), the chariots and something like a giant skeleton (I love tall but not large monsters on the table: giants, keeper of secret, etc...) . All in terme of visual effect because our magic is the missile launcher, the chariots role is kinda the same of the morghast and the giant, welll need the skelly giant hahahaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, GeneralZero said: graveG are so much more fluffy than reapers. And I'm in super love of the morghast minis. An army full of skellies is such a beauty. The truth and nothing but the truth... bedsheets might be the competitive choice, but I‘m not that kinda player... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogmaadn Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) You guys say that GG should be pick basically on GHoN because they are battleline, but you are forgetting that when playing Deathmarch you are also meeting the battleline requirements (since you are forced to include 3 skeleton units), so you can just field a unit of 30 GG with the Legion of Sacrament for the extra 3'', and using the Soulkeeper endless spell for the GG. All that leads to an extra 7'' movement as well as a potential turn 1 charge with both the 30 GG and 10-15 BK with the Wight King. I know this is de GHoN topic, but I'm actually starting to feel that playing Deathmarch under LoS seems the most competitive list for Death, at least for the point cost. Edited June 20, 2019 by ogmaadn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitch_EGS Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 That's sounds pretty interesting and I'm sure the speed would catch alot of people out. I wonder how the artifact that turns the king into a caster too might change things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, ogmaadn said: I know this is de GHoN topic, but I'm actually starting to feel that playing Deathmarch under LoS seems the most competitive list for Death, at least for the point cost. That's how I roll these days. Never win tournies or anything with it but I do alright (last one I won 3 out of 5). Probably do a lot better with a general who knows how to play the game - ha ha! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus65 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 19 hours ago, GeneralZero said: graveG are so much more fluffy than reapers. And I'm in super love of the morghast minis. An army full of skellies is such a beauty. I just miss the (long) range units (like skel archers or skel balista/catapult), the chariots and something like a giant skeleton (I love tall but not large monsters on the table: giants, keeper of secret, etc...) . All in terme of visual effect because our magic is the missile launcher, the chariots role is kinda the same of the morghast and the giant, welll need the skelly giant hahahaha This is the army I dream of! And with the news about grave guard I was considering something like this: - one 40 skeletons blobs with spears and two 10 skeletons units with swords (I guess no points for a second 40 skeletons unit..) - 30 grave guards with two hand weapon - one giant skeleton (the Reaper Miniatures Bones one, just ordered): mercenary giant? - black knights deathmarch battalion - some necromancers, and of course a wight king. As big hero, I was considering a converted skelly/vampire lord on zombie dragon (maybe a converted Arkhan the Black, or the old GW metal necromancer on horse) - plus, if there are points, every endless spell useful for moving faster the army on the table . What do you think of the list, my undead friends? And what legion? Host of Nagash, for grave guards battleline, or legion of sacrament for magic and extra move? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Bob Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Ferrus65 said: Snip What do you think of the list, my undead friends? And what legion? Host of Nagash, for grave guards battleline, or legion of sacrament for magic and extra move? A deathrattle heavy force has the most advantages in the old Grand Host be it regen, extra attacks, battleline. Your list has a strong narrative bent to it. At the height of WFBs when Wights (on foot or mounted) were great, I loved big formations. In a good gaming group that enjoys company and the hobby you’ll have a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Thoughts on Black Knights? very cheap, high mobility .... i have a couple of hexwraith/black knight kits, dont know which to assemble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 They were kinda baddish, but they're a fair bit better since they got an extra attack in the legions book. Still kind of fragile, but they hit reasonably ok on the charge, especially with a few buffs on. Tack on +1 attack from a vamp lord's or wight king's CA and another +1 for lord of nagashizaar and suddenly they've putting out a rather respectable 8 attacks each. Respectable against hordes of chaff at least - good armor saves still present serious problems for them, and any amount of rend in return cuts them down like they were skeletons. I've heard of people having some tournament success with big units (15+) supported by a mounted wight king in a deathmarch. A fair number of wounds, extra fast with the formation bonus, they have an easy time getting that bravery debuff banner in range if you're running t-gheists or the like to take advantage of it, tolerable offense out of the box, stack buffs pretty well, and the same battalion wight king who buffs their speed can also carry a couple attack buffs. I personally view them as usable but not exactly great. I generally saw them as better than hexwraiths, but that was before the recent hexwraith points drop which may or may not tip the balance between the two units a bit. Hexwraiths don't have the banner or musician, but between rend and frightful touch they have much better attacks, with fly they have better movement, and with a 4+ ethereal they have much better durability as well. No good formations for them, not in the legions, anyway, but if you're not running deathmarch you might be better off with the wraiths these days. I'd reccomend putting just the horses together and play testing a couple rounds for comparison purposes before making a final decision on which unit you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sception said: They were kinda baddish, but they're a fair bit better since they got an extra attack in the legions book. Still kind of fragile, but they hit reasonably ok on the charge, especially with a few buffs on. Tack on +1 attack from a vamp lord's or wight king's CA and another +1 for lord of nagashizaar and suddenly they've putting out a rather respectable 8 attacks each. Respectable against hordes of chaff at least - good armor saves still present serious problems for them, and any amount of rend in return cuts them down like they were skeletons. I've heard of people having some tournament success with big units (15+) supported by a mounted wight king in a deathmarch. A fair number of wounds, extra fast with the formation bonus, they have an easy time getting that bravery debuff banner in range if you're running t-gheists or the like to take advantage of it, tolerable offense out of the box, stack buffs pretty well, and the same battalion wight king who buffs their speed can also carry a couple attack buffs. I personally view them as usable but not exactly great. I generally saw them as better than hexwraiths, but that was before the recent hexwraith points drop which may or may not tip the balance between the two units a bit. Hexwraiths don't have the banner or musician, but between rend and frightful touch they have much better attacks, with fly they have better movement, and with a 4+ ethereal they have much better durability as well. No good formations for them, not in the legions, anyway, but if you're not running deathmarch you might be better off with the wraiths these days. I'd reccomend putting just the horses together and play testing a couple rounds for comparison purposes before making a final decision on which unit you want. Dude that was like the best answer ever, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 No problem. All that said, to take my commentary with a grain of salt. My competitive experience in AoS is limited, and my tournament experience in 2e is so far non existent. Definitely test out both units a couple times before committing to see how they work for you against your common opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 What are everyone's thoughts on meeting engagement lists for Grand Host? a briefish summary of meeting engagements (working from memory, so some of this might not be right, check the ghb19 for exact rules): Spoiler Meeting engagements are a new format for pitched battle games at 1000 points, with extra rules designed for shorter games on smaller tables. Armies are split into three groups - spearhead, main body, and rearguard, each of which must include at least one unit. Spearhead can have up to one leader, up to one battleline, up to two other units, but no behemoths or artillery. Main body has 1-2 leaders, 1-2 battleline, 0-1 behemoths, any number of other units, but no artillery. rearguard has 0-1 leaders, 0-2 battleline, 0-1 behemoths, 0-2 artillery, 0-2 other units. All units in the spearhead are limited to minimum unit size, all units except for battleline in the main body are limited to minimum unit size - battleline can be up to twice the minimum size, any unit in the rearguard can be up to twice minimum unit size. Additionally, you can only take a maximum of two units taken from any given warscroll unless you're taking those units as part of a detachment that requires more. Finally, you can only have up to one allied unit, up to one endless spell, and can buy up to one additional command point. Allied units don't count for minimums, but do count for maximums. deployment is up to 3" from your board edge. Batches deploy in different orders depending on the mission. in most, the spearhead gets deployed normally before the game, main body is deployed at the end of your first turn, and rearguard is deployed at the end of your second turn. However, mission depending, sometimes spearhead comes on second or third, main body is sometimes first (but never last) and rearguard is sometimes second (but never first). Units can arrive via reserve rules, but not before they would be able to deploy normally, so if you have a unit of 20 grave guard in your rearguard, and the rearguard is normally deployed at the end of your second turn in the mission you're playing, then you can deploy them via gravesite in your third movement phase, but not before that. missions vary in number of objectives and board edges/territories, but most follow the same pattern for victory points - at the end of each battle round the player that caused the most unsaved wounds gets 2 victory points and the player who controls the most objectives gets 3. games last 4 rounds, minor victory for more points than your opponent, major victory for 5 more points. Ok, so right off the bat, I think the Legions in general and grand host in particular start off on poor footing. In general we like to play the hoard game, and that's just not available to us here. None of our units can be taken above 20 wounds in a unit. Basic skeletons will never get their third attack, and will lose the second after a single casualty. We're also priced out of effective us of most of our detachments. The next issue is that our units tend to be relatively fragile, relying on recursion to stay in the game - which can be quite effective in normal pitched battle games, but in meeting engagements you're going to end up feeding your opponent victory points on wounds-caused. Objectives are worth more in meeting engagement missions, but since taking objectives from your opponent can be quite tricky, a lot of games are likely to come down to wounds caused. Finally, a number of our staple units have seen points increases - in particular grimghasts, necromancers, and dire wolves - making small point lists tricky for us even before contending with all the other restrictions. On the other hand... We have seen small points drops for Morghasts and Grave Guard - and an increase to minimum unit size for the latter, which is a good thing in meeting engagements - more elite units not dependent on numbers for their offence. These decreases probably aren't enough to make these units /good/ in my opinion, but they are a bit better, and they're units that the Grand Host in particular gets extra benefits with. We also have gravesite deployment. It doesn't get units on the table early, but it can save your later units a turn of running up the field to try to get into position. Blood Knights, probably the legions' most elite unit, have also seen a hefty points drop, but while they're potentially a strong option, they're also probably better used by legion of blood or soulblight. And while the restrictions are difficult for us, they also hit some of our most difficult opponents. In most meeting engagements you won't have to deal with warp lightning cannons in the first two turns, and won't have to deal with more than two cannons, jezzails, or warpfire throwers each. Here are some of the meeting engagement lists I've been tooling around with - keeping in mind that my competitive experience is limited so there's likely a lot of room for improvement take one: you can't be sure when any given group will arrive on the table, so make each one self-sufficient Spoiler Spearhead, fast - can make an early run for objectives, reasonably offensive threats in orb & CA buffed black knights Vampire Lord (140) - Mount: Nightmare - Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb 5 x Dire Wolves (70) 5 x Black Knights (120) Main Body - as hard hitting as we can get out of a block of 20 battleline , taking advantage of bl GG in grand host Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120) - General: Lord of Nagashizzar - Artefact: Ossific Diadem 20 x Grave Guard (280) - Great Wight Blades Rearguard - late game casting support, using spell range to tip scales- necro to cast, cart for buff, zombies to pass wounds to Necromancer (130) - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread 10 x Zombies (60) 1 x Corpse Cart (80) Total: 1000 / 1000 Extra Command Points: 0 Wounds: 71 have some other ideas (gg spam, morghast spam, etc), will post later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Rod said: Thoughts on Black Knights? very cheap, high mobility .... i have a couple of hexwraith/black knight kits, dont know which to assemble. IMO Black Knights are your chaff clearance. Anything that comes in large numbers with no rend. 3+/3+/-/2 on the charge is quite nice and with the buffs outlined from Sception you'll mulch anything with a low save by the dozen. Hexwraiths however scream anti-elite. Rend, Ethereal and Mortal Wounds to boot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenoszenn Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Hi I was looking at starting a legions of nagash army and would like to field nagash. But I don’t know the meta or what is even good in age of sigmar so any help would be amazing. Looking for 2k points. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Xenoszenn said: But I don’t know the meta or what is even good in age of sigmar so any help would be amazing Hey there, welcome to the bright side of trustworthyness, chivalry and honor (we do have cookies, gluten-free and vegan if needed... ) the new ghb19 stirred things up a bit, but something like Grand Host Nagash (850) Necromancer (130) 2x5 wolves (140) 30 graveguards (360) add up to 1480pts and gives you a solid base to deviate left or right for other things... it all depends on how competitive you want to roll, your personal preference on the moaning bedsheets and your meta. Nagash done right is pretty powerful, Nagash noobed up is pretty embarrassing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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