AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

[123lac]

Recently picked up the Start Collecting Skeleton Horde. Any tips on where to go from here? I've assembled Arkhan so I'd like to structure a good 1k list first based on the legion of sacrament.

[CaptainSoup]

On 1/12/2019 at 12:42 PM, CaptainSoup said:

Whoops! Read my previous comments on the last page.

 

1 hour ago, 123lac said:

Recently picked up the Start Collecting Skeleton Horde. Any tips on where to go from here? I've assembled Arkhan so I'd like to structure a good 1k list first based on the legion of sacrament.

I would suggest reading through this thread and the subsequent Legion of Sacrament thread for more info on how you could start your army. As you're reading, remember to take what people suggest for a 2000 point army and simply boil it down to a 1000 point army and you're good to go!

Edited January 14, 2019 by CaptainSoup

[Honk]

1 hour ago, 123lac said:

Any tips on where to go from here?

for a decent army, you´ll need 1-2 necromancers, maybe a small vamplord and more skellis to get the unit up to 40.

After that I would recommend playing at the 1k level to get a hang of rules, synergies, playstyles in the different scenarios and such things.

Everybody asks what to buy and what lists to build, but if it is not your style and mindset, you will struggle to perform and pull off the tricks.

The Legions book is so great for us (with all little set backs), because it kinda is a GA:Death book and there is a huge variety of lists and playstyles possible.

ianob performed with a Black Knight lists, which is very fast and does deadly alpha strikes. but I would totally ****** up such a playstyle, because it relies heavily on top level positioning of the units, screening and enemy unit movement prediction. If you´re not up to the task, your mighty Black knight charge gets stuck in the woods, tangled up in chaff, while the rest of your army gets kicked into the mud.

there are bravery debuff lists out there, using the legion of blood, death banner and morghast together with the overwhelming dread spell to get a -4/-5 debuff on a unit. then mortis engine and banshee or terrorgheist scream and the unit melts. the resulting battleshock sees the remains fleeing (in theory).

Legion of sacrament spell fireworks (since you have arkhan) with the spell portal nasty combos are possible, like the soul harvest bomb, right into the support heroes of your enemy.

just rummage through the forum and you´ll find a bunch of lists, if they are something to consider can only be answered by you, knowing, if you´re able to f.e. position 15 knights correctly, to buff them into god-mode and get them into a high value enemy unit. or if you like slowly walking 2x40 skellis up the board and afterwards position 30 chainrasps round whatever (not even talking about building and painting ;-D )...

 

Summary: play at 1k level, try for horde, elite, fast playtyles (proxy models if needed) and go from there. if you buy 20 bloodknights for 320$ they better bring you joy

[Mutter]

5 hours ago, Honk said:

ianob performed with a Black Knight lists, which is very fast and does deadly alpha strikes. but I would totally ****** up such a playstyle, because it relies heavily on top level positioning of the units, screening and enemy unit movement prediction. If you´re not up to the task, your mighty Black knight charge gets stuck in the woods, tangled up in chaff, while the rest of your army gets kicked into the mud.

That's why I like two big blobs of black knights. If one gets bogged down, the second one can then come in to the rescue.

And even when not charging, they take some effort to get removed due to being the usual 'Death 30' wounds ...

[Honk]

6 hours ago, Mutter said:

And even when not charging, they take some effort to get removed due to being the usual 'Death 30' wounds ...

Same goes for wolves, those cute little puppies are the most hated units in my army 😅👍

 

[Nevar]

Hey folks, questions all around for the LoN players in here.

I have been a Nighthaunt player since AoS1.0, and I have been stoked about the new Nighthaunt and all that.  I specifically love the Nighthaunt models.

However... it seems to me Nighthaunt as a faction are more in the 'Gambler's Army' realm than I really like.  They have a lot of good abilities and units and synergies and the like... but their battle traits like Wave of Terror, is one of those things you cannot plan on.  It is icing on my cake when it works, but by no means something I can expect at any time.

My question is, how successful can I be using basically only Nighthaunt models in a LoN army?  Which Legion is best for that?  I would want to keep everything ghostly, but a single necromancer with Ethereal Amulet, or a Vampire or the like would be fine since I can get them Ethereal via artifact and make them 'Ghost Necromancers' and such.   An Ethereal VLoD would be fun also.

I just find the 'strategy' of grave marker placement, and keeping the general alive and near one to respawn units and managing the CPs much more engaging.  In Nighthaunt I basically bank CPs for the first turn or so, then use them for charge rerolls and the occasional +attack buffs on the Knight of Shrouds.

It seems from an outside perspective... that I could essentially maintain the full Nighthaunt unit synergies with the units added to LoN with Soul Wars, while also bringing in a unit of Bladegeists, or a special character from time to time, etc.  The Nightmare Lantern for instance gives +1 to wound for all Nighthaunt units, and if I am using all Nighthaunt units in my LoN I lose none of the synergy from that buff.  Likewise I can still use the spell to spirit lure more units back, PLUS all the grave site healing.  It just seems like I could do a much better steady, strategic, attrition, type play style in LoN as opposed to NH, even when still using all bedsheets.

What do you all think?

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Nevar said:

Hey folks, questions all around for the LoN players in here.

I have been a Nighthaunt player since AoS1.0, and I have been stoked about the new Nighthaunt and all that.  I specifically love the Nighthaunt models.

However... it seems to me Nighthaunt as a faction are more in the 'Gambler's Army' realm than I really like.  They have a lot of good abilities and units and synergies and the like... but their battle traits like Wave of Terror, is one of those things you cannot plan on.  It is icing on my cake when it works, but by no means something I can expect at any time.

My question is, how successful can I be using basically only Nighthaunt models in a LoN army?  Which Legion is best for that?  I would want to keep everything ghostly, but a single necromancer with Ethereal Amulet, or a Vampire or the like would be fine since I can get them Ethereal via artifact and make them 'Ghost Necromancers' and such.   An Ethereal VLoD would be fun also.

I just find the 'strategy' of grave marker placement, and keeping the general alive and near one to respawn units and managing the CPs much more engaging.  In Nighthaunt I basically bank CPs for the first turn or so, then use them for charge rerolls and the occasional +attack buffs on the Knight of Shrouds.

It seems from an outside perspective... that I could essentially maintain the full Nighthaunt unit synergies with the units added to LoN with Soul Wars, while also bringing in a unit of Bladegeists, or a special character from time to time, etc.  The Nightmare Lantern for instance gives +1 to wound for all Nighthaunt units, and if I am using all Nighthaunt units in my LoN I lose none of the synergy from that buff.  Likewise I can still use the spell to spirit lure more units back, PLUS all the grave site healing.  It just seems like I could do a much better steady, strategic, attrition, type play style in LoN as opposed to NH, even when still using all bedsheets.

What do you all think?

Just remember if you want to play Legions of Nagash Nighthaunt Units do not count as battleline so you will have to run some skellies or puppies or similar. 

[Nevar]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

Just remember if you want to play Legions of Nagash Nighthaunt Units do not count as battleline so you will have to run some skellies or puppies or similar. 

Chainrasps are still battleline.

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, Nevar said:

Chainrasps are still battleline.

Sorry you are correct. It's stalkers that aren't. 

[Sception]

Nighthaunt units, at least those that the legions share, are arguably better in a legions of nagash army, due to the legions' superior recursion mechanics, spellcasting, and character support.  But you lose out on a lot of those benefits if you're playing a ghosts-only army, and allowing yourself only a single non-nighthaunt hero with the amulet.

You can make it work, grimghasts in particular are nasty with gravesite recursion, but i do think a pure nighthaunt army works better with the actual nighthaunt allegiance.    Though even then, one or two non-ethereal allied vampires or necromancers are still recommended.

[MrRoff]

Hello again!

Another question as always:

Legion of blood command trait:
Swift Strikes: Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ in the combat phase for your general, you can make one additional hit roll for the same weapon against the same target.

What if an attack with your commander have frightfull touch? (Each time youmake a hit roll of +6 for ***, that attack inflicts X mortal wound instead of the normal damage. Do not make a wound or save roll.

Would all 6+ on that attack inflict mortal wounds and then i get another dice to roll and hit again? And that could inflict another mortal wound on a 6+? (And would i get another hit on that hit after hit on a 6+?)

Becauce giving for example the Coven Throne which has 25 attacks total, and 12 with frightful touch this command trait sounds kinda good.
Or giving her: Walking Death: If you roll a 6+ to Hit with one of your general's melee weapons, you deal mortal wounds equal to the weapon's Damage.

That together with an artifact that would give one of your attacks mortal wounds on +6, since it would stack from diffrent sources as far as i've been told on here.
 

Edited January 16, 2019 by MrRoff

[CaptainSoup]

11 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Hello again!

Another question as always:

Legion of blood command trait:
Swift Strikes: Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ in the combat phase for your general, you can make one additional hit roll for the same weapon against the same target.

What if an attack with your commander have frightfull touch? (Each time youmake a hit roll of +6 for ***, that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound instead of the normal damage. Do not make a wound or save roll.

Would all 6+ on that attack inflict mortal wounds and then i get another dice to roll and hit again? And that could inflict another mortal wound on a 6+?

Becauce giving for example the Coven Throne which has 25 attacks total, and 12 with frightful touch this command trait sounds kinda good.
Or giving her: Walking Death: If you roll a 6+ to Hit with one of your general's melee weapons, you deal mortal wounds equal to the weapon's Damage.

That together with an artifact that would give one of your attacks mortal wounds on +6, since it would stack from diffrent sources as far as i've been told on here.
 

It seems like the effects can stack with one another. You roll your first set of dice, get a 6 so you deal a MW and roll an additional dice. This is mainly because they are one, different abilites entirely and two, the first 6 roll you make first is still a hit you just deal MW instead of wounding. If that second roll is also a six then you get to deal another MW then that's it.

This is my thought process on it anyway.

[MrRoff]

4 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

It seems like the effects can stack with one another. You roll your first set of dice, get a 6 so you deal a MW and roll an additional dice. This is mainly because they are one, different abilites entirely and two, the first 6 roll you make first is still a hit you just deal MW instead of wounding. If that second roll is also a six then you get to deal another MW then that's it.

This is my thought process on it anyway.

What if with"Swift strikes" i roll a 6+ and get another dice, and that one is a 6+ also, do i get another die to roll? Could i (with luck) roll forever?
Since the trait only specifies that, Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ in the combat phase for your general, you can make one additional hit roll for the same weapon against the same target.
That hit after hit roll is still a hit roll with the same weapon in the combat face.

Edited January 16, 2019 by MrRoff

[CaptainSoup]

9 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

What if with"Swift strikes" i roll a 6+ and get another dice, and that one is a 6+ also, do i get another die to roll? Could i (with luck) roll forever?
Since the trait only specifies that, Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ in the combat phase for your general, you can make one additional hit roll for the same weapon against the same target.
That hit after hit roll is still a hit roll with the same weapon in the combat face.

That would break one of the Rules of One. A roll that was generated from an ability cannot generate another roll.

[Honk]

29 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

break one of the Rules of One

Like CaptainSoup said, you cannot get extra attacks from extra attacks.

I don’t have the rules on me right now, but you have to watch out for „all melee attacks“ and „(one) melee attacks“ wording in the rules, while mixing artifacts and generals abilities.

Are all weapon profiles are effected or only one?!

And as a FEC player, watch out for extra effects, that might get canceled. If you do mortal wounds on a 6+ to hit (not extra MWs), the normal sequence gets canceled and effects that trigger on 6+ to wound can’t be achieved by those hits... (terrorgheist gaping maw)

 

So, while rummaging through all the artifacts of all the realms in combination with spells/effects/abilities/commands the great faq reading and translation comparing needs to be done.

Had interesting discussions about spell portal soul harvest bombs with Arkhans command ability and you want to have the rules and faqs figured out firmly, maybe even printed out for the opponent calling out BS, before the yelling begins...

[tea_wild_owl]

2 hours ago, MrRoff said:

Hello again!

Another question as always:

Legion of blood command trait:
Swift Strikes: Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ in the combat phase for your general, you can make one additional hit roll for the same weapon against the same target.

What if an attack with your commander have frightfull touch? (Each time youmake a hit roll of +6 for ***, that attack inflicts X mortal wound instead of the normal damage. Do not make a wound or save roll.

Would all 6+ on that attack inflict mortal wounds and then i get another dice to roll and hit again? And that could inflict another mortal wound on a 6+? (And would i get another hit on that hit after hit on a 6+?)

Becauce giving for example the Coven Throne which has 25 attacks total, and 12 with frightful touch this command trait sounds kinda good.
Or giving her: Walking Death: If you roll a 6+ to Hit with one of your general's melee weapons, you deal mortal wounds equal to the weapon's Damage.

That together with an artifact that would give one of your attacks mortal wounds on +6, since it would stack from diffrent sources as far as i've been told on here.
 

you have to take care that some effects like the weapon artefacts for a hero only counts for his weapon, and not for its mount. so in your example for a coven throne, the artefacts would only be available for her melee weapons and not for the handmaidens and spectral hosts weapons (they count as mount as per latest faq)

[TalesOfSigmar]

Wondering whether I could get some thoughts on this list;

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Nagash Supreme Lord of the Undead (800)
- General
- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Vile Transference (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 

Edited January 21, 2019 by TalesOfSigmar

[CaptainSoup]

6 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

Wondering whether I could get some thoughts on this list;

An interesting list. The Guardian of Souls works on paper, though I wonder how much better a Vampire Lord would be. You're wasting a spell slot that could be used for other things like access to an additional spell from the blood spell book. The spell you do have you can have for free though at a D3 instead of D6. Also, and this is very biased on my part, but I dont think Reapers do work as well as people say, at least when it comes to pure damage output. They make up for it in movement and being ethereal though. 

So yeah its not bad in my opinion or at least its different. I just wonder about overall damage output potential and the effectiveness of the Guardian. It would be cool to hear how your matches go!

[TalesOfSigmar]

13 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

An interesting list. The Guardian of Souls works on paper, though I wonder how much better a Vampire Lord would be. You're wasting a spell slot that could be used for other things like access to an additional spell from the blood spell book. The spell you do have you can have for free though at a D3 instead of D6. Also, and this is very biased on my part, but I dont think Reapers do work as well as people say, at least when it comes to pure damage output. They make up for it in movement and being ethereal though. 

So yeah its not bad in my opinion or at least its different. I just wonder about overall damage output potential and the effectiveness of the Guardian. It would be cool to hear how your matches go!

Cheers for the advice, I did toy between the Vampire Lord and the Guardian however the Guardian of Souls is the Birthday Store exclusive one (the spell lets a Nighthaunt unit move 6" in the Hero Phase) meaning the Reapers are moving 14".

Also any enemy units within 9" of him can only charge on a 1D6" which can hopefully hinder some units.

The reapers for me are fast, multiple attacks and have rend, something I feel alot of the death units lack without having to spend alot of points (Morghasts etc). 4+ unrendable and the fact I can get them to pile in twice I'm hoping they can do the damage while also capturing objectives with their numbers.

Might have my first game on Thursday against Skaven so will see how I do then.

Edited January 21, 2019 by TalesOfSigmar

[Honk]

9 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

thoughts on this list;

If the skaven player knows what he’s up against...

poison wind mortars and jezzails and byebye nagash at 30“. ...

 

but it best of luck, if you can get on the objectives you should be able to weather the storm.

[lare2]

This might be old news but I've just noticed how neat our tab is on the GW website these days. Only selections now are LoN, NH, and FEC. Reckon we can read anything into this? Bye bye Deadwalkers as a faction, for example. 

[Honk]

36 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Bye bye Deadwalkers as a faction, for example

I guess it is almost long due, since there never has been , to my knowledge, a Deathwalker alliance something, same as the deathmages. They have the Keyword as the morghast have their reanimant and nothing really relates to that.

good they tidied up a bit...

[lare2]

Like many, i imagine, I really wasn't a fan of the breakup of the factions so any moves to reintegrate them is only a good thing in my eyes. Hoping this implies we're one step closer to full reintegration (which is pretty much how LoN works now to be honest). 

[MrRoff]

Ok, a quick weird question.

 

Can you take battalions from another alliance you are not in. 

For example: if I play Grand Alliance Death, can I pick battalions from the nighthaunt battle tomb and so on? 

 

[Honk]

43 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

I play Grand Alliance Death, can I pick battalions from the nighthaunt battle tomb and so on? 

I think you can play all battalions in the GA:Death, but it depends if a specific alliance is predetermined.

For Example the Castellans of the Crimson Keep are RAW not able to be taken into a Soulblight Army, since the battalion is specifically for the legion of blood... stupid, but RAW,

they loosen it for between the legions (court of nulahmia in a Legion of Night army) but it stays tricky...