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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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40 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

Just please no "shrines" or "worshipping", the whole prayer to Khorne concept is already so shoehorned. Make it a pile of freshly severed heads with a planted banner, something practical, and move away from the religious tendencies.  Pretty please GW :)

I agree it shouldn’t be an ornate shrine, because Khorne has no use for edifices that aren’t made of bone! However, I’ve always liked the religious theme in Khorne and wish they’d push it more—emphasize that the Bloodbound are fanatics, and murder is their Mass. They should dial it up with bloody vestments, miters made of bone and skin, giant chalices of blood!

 

is that so much to ask? 😀

Edited by Zamik
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1 hour ago, Zamik said:

I agree it shouldn’t be an ornate shrine, because Khorne has no use for edifices that aren’t made of bone! However, I’ve always liked the religious theme in Khorne and wish they’d push it more—emphasize that the Bloodbound are fanatics, and murder is their Mass. They should dial it up with bloody vestments, miters made of bone and skin, giant chalices of blood!

 

is that so much to ask? 😀

To each their own I guess, but for me the ornamental parts have always been more Slaanesh, whereas Khorne warriors are more practical/functional/simple-minded/atheistic (trying to find the right word) in their approach. Basically, using body parts for trophy racks - yes, for decorations - no.

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3 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

To each their own I guess, but for me the ornamental parts have always been more Slaanesh, whereas Khorne warriors are more practical/functional/simple-minded/atheistic (trying to find the right word) in their approach. Basically, using body parts for trophy racks - yes, for decorations - no.

But what could be more ornamental than a whole THRONE OF SKULLS?

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5 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Just please no "shrines" or "worshipping", the whole prayer to Khorne concept is already so shoehorned. Make it a pile of freshly severed heads with a planted banner, something practical, and move away from the religious tendencies.  Pretty please GW :)

I'm no religious fan so I get it, but at the end of the day Khorne is a "god", so prayers and worshiping do seem kind of appropriate. Even a pile of severed heads or skulls is essentially an "offering" which has religious connotations any way you look at it. 

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32 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

I'm no religious fan so I get it, but at the end of the day Khorne is a "god", so prayers and worshiping do seem kind of appropriate. Even a pile of severed heads or skulls is essentially an "offering" which has religious connotations any way you look at it. 

I suppose, yea. I mean something like this is totally Khorne-y for example!

"Khorne, I never prayed to you befoooar" :D

 

Edited by Bjornas
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6 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Just please no "shrines" or "worshipping", the whole prayer to Khorne concept is already so shoehorned. Make it a pile of freshly severed heads with a planted banner, something practical, and move away from the religious tendencies.  Pretty please GW :)

No.

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So with the rise of the Alpha big scary monsters what's people's opinions on this?

The batallion ignores Rend 1,  and also targets all models within 3" of a unit from the formation (Wrathmongers and Blood Warriors) and on a 6 they attack their own unit or themselves. Wrathmongers to make people start hitting themselves when they kill the Wrathmongers.

I can just imagine 4 FEC Dragons hitting themselves to death......

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (140)
Skullgrinder (80)
Skarr Bloodwrath (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)

Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
Bloodforged (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 157

 
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3 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

So with the rise of the Alpha big scary monsters what's people's opinions on this?

The batallion ignores Rend 1,  and also targets all models within 3" of a unit from the formation (Wrathmongers and Blood Warriors) and on a 6 they attack their own unit or themselves. Wrathmongers to make people start hitting themselves when they kill the Wrathmongers.

I can just imagine 4 FEC Dragons hitting themselves to death......


 

My only issue is giving Zombie Dragons an extra maw chomp on me (-2 Rend and D6 damage), plus the range of the maw attack is 3", and the Wrathmonger's Bloodfury only affects models within 2". It'll take clever positioning.

I still kind of prefer Skullreapers' Murderous to the Last ability, which can deal back a mortal wound or even d3 mw on a 6.

Whoops--I missed that the battalion does a 3" "Bloodfury" in the Hero Phase. Okay, I can see that making a curtain of Blood Warriors really scary: they can make your units attack themselves, they can deal mortal wounds with successful saves (gorefists), and pile-in on death.

Edited by Zamik
Missed the Battalion ability.
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Khorne also being the god of the industry, and lot of khorne armies having fortress and other forts, if they had a scenery, maybe they could have something like a tower or an armory or something like that.

My main question is : what are they going to do with the skullreapers ? Right now, their main advantage and difference with the bloodletters was that their mortal wounds were IN ADDITION to their attacks (instead of being instead of the normal damages of the attack), making it better, but with the risk of injuring yourself on a 1 to wound, making it more risky.

If they do mortal wounds on a 6 unmodified, they will be worse than the bloodletters, who do the mortal wounds on addition to their normal damages, but don't require to wound, and without the risk of injuring yourself.

If they just slap "6 unmodified" on the skullreapers, they will need a really good point reduction...

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I just dont get Skull Reapers. Elite Khorne infantry whose daemon blades hit on 4+ with no rend and a chance to mortal wound themselves? The rerolls and all that are awesome however until they get there they are a bit meh as far as elite units go. 

I would like to see them pulled in line with other elite troops, hit on 3+ with daemonblades, have -1 rend and mortal wounds on unmodified 6s to hit without the risk of self harm. There needs to be a reason for ppl to consider Gore-Slick blades so maybe those grant an extra attack and -1 rend. You could keep the reroll 1's for either option however this becomes redundant as soon as stage one of Trial of Skulls activates so wouldnt mind if this was left out. They could go back up to 180 points for 5 with those changes if need be. 

This is probably too far down the wish list path however something needs to be done with them as they will no doubt be on unmodified 6's to do mortals. 

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6 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

I just dont get Skull Reapers. Elite Khorne infantry whose daemon blades hit on 4+ with no rend and a chance to mortal wound themselves? The rerolls and all that are awesome however until they get there they are a bit meh as far as elite units go. 

I would like to see them pulled in line with other elite troops, hit on 3+ with daemonblades, have -1 rend and mortal wounds on unmodified 6s to hit without the risk of self harm. There needs to be a reason for ppl to consider Gore-Slick blades so maybe those grant an extra attack and -1 rend. You could keep the reroll 1's for either option however this becomes redundant as soon as stage one of Trial of Skulls activates so wouldnt mind if this was left out. They could go back up to 180 points for 5 with those changes if need be. 

This is probably too far down the wish list path however something needs to be done with them as they will no doubt be on unmodified 6's to do mortals. 

they are still today one of the most terrifying unit on the board. They just need to be buffed quite a lot during the first combat phase, after that, the rerolls kick in and they slaughter absolutely everything in their path without any exterior help. They snowball ridiculously well. Having both saturation AND mortal wound make them very cool.

I play 3x5 in my gore pilgrim list (with 3 +1 to hit from the slaughterpriest and a +1 to wound from the Lord of khorne on juggernaut) and 16 attacks 3+/2+/-/1  plus 3 attacks 3+/2+/-1/2 and 2 attacks 2+/3+/-1/D3 doing in average 6/7 mortal wounds is far from bad. Then when they reroll everything (which WILL happen, they won't have any difficulty to kill 5/8 minis in the first round of battle barring cataclysmic rolls), they throw so many mortal wounds and saturation of attacks that even evocators look bad in comparison. 

Edited by ledha
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No doubt with all those buffs active they are wrecking balls, even before the rerolls activate,  however just about any unit in the game is going to hit hard with +3 to hit and +1 to wound. Throw in a Bloodstoker for rerolling 1's to wound to prevent the self harming mortal wounds. Problem is the +3 to hit is dependent on dice rolls and the +1 to wound needs a CP.

My point being ELITE units should be competent on their own merits and not need 460-540 points worth of heroes to get them there.  

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1 hour ago, Agent of Chaos said:

No doubt with all those buffs active they are wrecking balls, even before the rerolls activate,  however just about any unit in the game is going to hit hard with +3 to hit and +1 to wound. Throw in a Bloodstoker for rerolling 1's to wound to prevent the self harming mortal wounds. Problem is the +3 to hit is dependent on dice rolls and the +1 to wound needs a CP.

My point being ELITE units should be competent on their own merits and not need 460-540 points worth of heroes to get them there.  

It was just with a +1 to hit and +1 to wound (on the charge). The CP affect several units at once and a prayer on 4+ reroll is fairly sure (75% chance of going off). And the slaughterpriests have two prayers, so they do more than just buffing the units. It's not THAT big of an investment for buffing 3 units. As for the bloodsecrator, he buff the whole army, so i don't really count him as an investment for making the skullreapers better.

I tend to not take the bloodstocker (even if i know he is skullreaper's best friend) because it's a 6th hero who buff only one unit, and at this point, i prefer to have more guys on the table.

Edited by ledha
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Im not knocking priests, they are one of our best units when taken in Gore Pilgrims and I take them often. But a dice roll is still a dice roll so not 100% reliable.

Same with the Lord on Juggernaut. Its one of the best command abilities out there but comannd points are a finite resource so there will be times when you are not able to guarantee the buff. 

Buffs are nice to have, but elite units (those with a 170 points for 5 price tag) need to be a bit more reliable without buffs in my opinion. Its a fluff related issue as well. Elite warriors representing the god of war who hit on 4+ with no rend... Its just not right. I know ppl love their Skullreapers and Im not taking them away from anybody, just pointing out why I think they need improving from a rules and fluff perspective. 

As for the Bloodstoker, I rarely leave home without him. No doubt hero slots are precious and its always a tough call who to take and who to leave out. But in a game where movement and objective capturing is key, the guaranteed movement buff he provides (no roll or CP needed) can be game defining. Especially when coupled with a wraith of khorne bloodthirster's command ability. He is also a hero who flies under the opponent's radar which is great for scenario's where you need heroes for objectives. 

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The thing is AoS is a simple game, that relies on buffs aswell. What I like about this edition more than ever is that the buffs arn't ****** Wizard or Priest releated anymore, where in AoS1 it mostly was. As in AoS2 Command Trait buffs have really stepped up their game in functionality, thus non Wizard or Priest heroes have really improved their use.

@Agent of Chaos I actually think this can be considered fluffy too. They are blessed by the gods, therefore support characters will often focus on them. Fluffwise they should be the center of attention for more armies. By comparison most Battleline units are considered chaff and are also used this way in game... So I don't really agree that elite units should be even better, they are allready really good. Wether or not Rend/Mortal wounds 'feels right' is really besides the point in AoS. As there are many small Infantry units who have it and even more Behemoth units who don't. Long story short, Rend/Mortal Wounds doesn't really have to make sence, and it didn't since AoS' inception.

In terms of Khorne and religion/avatars
I really think it's a very interesting concept to talk about, I do fully agree that WFB Khorne was way less focused on this aspect, however Khorne Priests being mentioned in Warhammer Fantasy lore, for Khorne, dates as far back as the 6th edition book. Long story short, it has been implemented in the new WFB wave, pretty much since inception for Khorne. What was lost there completely however was the forging aspect. 

Basically since the End Times book and offcourse the start of Age of Sigmar we saw that Khorne's lore changed again, logically also because Age of Sigmar isn't Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I personally like that we have more focus on the non-combatant also, also really think the best move Games Workshop made for Khorne is to show that it isn't all 'steel wall and armourclad'. Because of this, there is more visual design room and reason to include Priests. I like it. Also because Age of Sigmar is more epic, even has mentioned Khorne entering the battle at places himself, where in Warhammer Fantasy Battles this was never done. At least not in 6th, 7th, 8th etc. Before that we can see it being mentioned here and there, because before that WFB was also more mythical/epic as AoS is now.

For the new Blades of Khorne book
I'd love to see a more fleshed out Forges of Khorne aspect in Age of Sigmar. We have several units being mentioned as being forged in the realm of Khorne. So apperantly Bloodletters do more as just kill ;) Likewise we also see a Skullgrinder with anvil, my hope is that this aspect will be fleshed out a little more for the new book. By large because it adds another layer to the Khorne we know and harkens back to the Khorne we knew.

image.png.2b4a5e4ff537d08f1f7a6ee0e73d11de.png

Lastly as others have mentioned, Khorne initially was mentioned as the god of slaughter, massacres and basically forger of war and destruction. I'd like to see this more and more appear in Age of Sigmar. My own vision of Khorne in Age of Sigmar is; Blood, Skulls, Slaughter and War Forging. I think these aspects is what Khorne should be about and initially was about at the start of WFB/40K aswell.

What I absolutely do not want to see, nor do I expect, is blood challices, other attributes of blood worship or even blood magic. All these aspects belong to Khaine and largely have done so since Khaine's first mentioning.
For Age of Sigmar I think it's also very important to keep Khorne and Khaine different. In Warhammer Fantasy that border was less clear, by large also because the first Witch Elves had Khorne symbols on their art. In this newer game however those ties don't need to be kept at all. 

 

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor witch elves khorne symbol

Cheers,

Edited by Killax
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So... it's that time of the year in which it's time to get some miniatures. Now... I own a whole bunch of Khorne Daemons, including a Bloodthirster and a few mortals. The Bloodthirster is absolutely my favorite chaos model and therefore I want to make an army around them, including some of the new miniatures, like Karanak and Flesh hounds. So what's better than make a list revolving around a Council of Blood! and perhaps a Blood Hunt. Now as for Artefacts and folowup unit choices, i'm not sure.

Allegiance: Khorne
Realm: Ghur


Leaders
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (260)
- General
- Trait: Slaughterborn
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (260)
- Artefact: Amberglaive
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- Artefact: Anraheirs's Claw
Karanak (160)
Bloodsecrator (140)

Battlelines
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
10 x Blood Warriors (200)

Battalions
Council of Blood (150)
Blood Hunt (180)


Total: 1970/ 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Extra CP: 2
Wounds: 87

Explanation: 
So first of all the idea was to run a Council of Blood with a Blood Hunt. For that, you have the Bloodthirsters, Karanak and the 3 units of Flesh Hounds. I included a Bloodsecrator to amplify the whole list even more with extra attacks and to force the opponent to re-roll casting rolls if they are succesful in his aura. On top of that with the Flesh Hounds and bunch of Daemon heroes, we have 3 unbinds with re-rolls, Karanaks punishing unbind, and the unbind with the +2 modifier from the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster. I feel what is needed after this is bodies to put on objectives, this is where I kinda can't pick. Do I include 10 more Flesh Hounds, to keep the army on 3 drops and have an initial +1 unbind on 2 units? Do I play Blood Warriors, to play the defensive game and go up to 4 drops? Also in terms of artefacts i'm not sure. Obviously the majority of the damage will come from the bloodthirsters. The Flesh Hounds can try and deal with some chaff, with the high mobility and good engage that they have, they can reliably have the jump on some screen units. I believe Blood Warriors are the defensive choice for objectives, it just sucks they aren't daemons, because they will only synergize with the bloodsecrator, which might be fine, but I would like some feedback on it. As for artefacts, I'm trying to amplify the combat potential of the list as much as possible, especially of the Bloodthirsters.  Now I know about Ghyrstrike, being good for the Insensate Rage Thirster, but this is not about just 1 thirster it's about trying to amplify 3 of them. I ended up picking the Unfettered Fury as the general, since they  don't have a way to re-roll their hit rolls. Therefore I gave him slaughterborn trait, to make him re-roll his failed hits. On top of that gave him the Crimson Crown to amplify the army around him generating more attacks on 6's to hit. This goes well together with the bloodsecrator aura. The Insensate Rage has re-rolls to hit of 1 on the charge, but I felt he needed something more to help with the lack of a missile weapon. So I gave him the Amberglaive to give him that 1" extra range, to reach some units in hard to hit places, and to get a +1 on his to hit, which is very much needed to make his Great Axe swing way more reliably. The Wrath of Khorne has Re-roll hit rolls vs Heroes and Monsters and I thought to try and specialize him for just that, with the extra attacks and possible extra attack generations and re-rolls vs these Heroes and Monsters, we could fish for hits of 6 and add 2 to his damage with Anraheir's Claw.  With the extra CP I'll probably use it in combo with the Wrath of Khorne's CA, to make the run roll a 6" for the target unit. Please give me your feedback. Thank you.

Edited by That Guy
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1 hour ago, Belakor said:

Hello guys I'm pretty new to AoS and I'm going to play  a batlle now. How do the Summon bloodletters spell work? Can you just summon a unit of Bloodletters every single turn?  Thanks!

All summoning spells have been removed.

 

On the topic of Khorne Worship, I do want more emphasis on the Skullgrinder. I think he kind of...exists currently? But he's so cool (actually the opposite, fire!) swinging a giant flaming anvil!

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2 hours ago, Belakor said:

Hello guys I'm pretty new to AoS and I'm going to play  a batlle now. How do the Summon bloodletters spell work? Can you just summon a unit of Bloodletters every single turn?  Thanks!

 

You can summon Bloodletters for Blood Tithe Points. You receive a Blood Tithe Point for wach unit that ist killed. For further Info, check the general's handbook.

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3 hours ago, Salyx said:

 

You can summon Bloodletters for Blood Tithe Points. You receive a Blood Tithe Point for wach unit that ist killed. For further Info, check the general's handbook.

@Belakor You can also find all the summoning details for free in the blades of khorne erata, in case you don't own the generals handbook.

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7 hours ago, Belakor said:

Hello guys I'm pretty new to AoS and I'm going to play  a batlle now. How do the Summon bloodletters spell work? Can you just summon a unit of Bloodletters every single turn?  Thanks!

One big thing to keep in mind: you need a hero on the field to summon them. You can’t just get wiped out then, SURPRISE! BLOODLETTERS!

Also, for 8 blood tithe points you can summon in the hero phase, otherwise it’s end of the movement phase if you’re using the regular summoning table in the errata.

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18 hours ago, Zamik said:

One big thing to keep in mind: you need a hero on the field to summon them. You can’t just get wiped out then, SURPRISE! BLOODLETTERS!

Also, for 8 blood tithe points you can summon in the hero phase, otherwise it’s end of the movement phase if you’re using the regular summoning table in the errata.

Notice : you can't move with the summoned unit in the movement phase of this turn, even if the summoning was during hero phase.

And for 8 blood tithe you don't need a hero in 12", you can summon anywhere that is more than 9" from an enemy.

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On the topic of summoning, are there any special rules regarding command groups (musician, banner champ) in newly summoned units? I'm assembling my first unit of Bloodletters and wonder if I should bother with the command parts. The trumpet would be nice I guess but I'm not sure I can be bothered with the banner.

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56 minutes ago, Beulettor said:

Notice : you can't move with the summoned unit in the movement phase of this turn, even if the summoning was during hero phase.

And for 8 blood tithe you don't need a hero in 12", you can summon anywhere that is more than 9" from an enemy.

I swear, summoning sure is complicated for having only two rules! 😄

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