Praecautus Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, Dan.Ford said: Agreed I hope GW remembers that our priest prayers are on 4's not 3's like other armies. Exactly, only good in gore pilgrims - which is where most people see them and then get a biased view. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Praecautus said: Exactly, only good in gore pilgrims - which is where most people see them and then get a biased view. Yeah, a 50/50 chance to get off an ability is no good and with only a 16" range to kill an enemy for a +1 to buff on the next turn, I wouldn't field one without getting the rerolls from Gore Pilgrims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.Ford Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 ok so think the Battalions need a look individual because I feel not one is too low . Units points are Balanced well. Bloodletters at 120/320 is correct. So let use that as a guide. But the stand out units for drops are SkullCannons 120 ( So at 150 would you want a Skull cannon or 10 bloodletters at 120.) BloodWarriors 90/480 (100/520) Korghos khul 150 (180) Valkia the Bloody 100 (140) Bloodcrushers 120 (150 , still may take the bloodletters instead) khorgorath 80 (90) Mortal keyword required. karanak Hero keyword required Mighty Skullcrushers 130(140, and daemon keyword required) Might lord of khorne ( Daemon keyword required ) Skarrac blood born 300-350 (OMG LOL 500) Exalted greater daemon of khorne with his 4+ save . 450 (580) New Khorne Dragon at 750 not 1200 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I hope GW understands that everyone plays gorepilgrims not becsuse it's that good but rather because other BoK are poor. Don't increase points on the batallion or slaughterpriests. Decrease the others. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Increasing priests after they increased gore pilgrims would be a big hit. Of course if Blood warriors saw a drop it might balance out. 5 for 90 feels right for them as they can only take the one special weapon per 10, as compared to liberators who can take 1 per 5 and are 100 points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumblefish Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 They've shown that they think raising prices of 'popular' units will make people use other units. That's definitely not the case, especially when armies are only consistently functional with those units. Obviously they aren't asking for feedback on fixing BoKs issues in general so the scope here is limited. Gore Pilgrims is so absurdly necessary that I don't think a points adjustment can really fix things. If Slaughterpriests were just more reliable, or had a different way to get more reliable then it wouldn't be so important. (disclaimer: you can absolutely have fun without Gore Pilgrims, especially if you're playing other marginal armies.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Having 8” is range for Hero’s is almost useless when using as bubble for multiple units. For exsmple - Murderhosr 220 pts- can only take *1* hero, and hero only effect units within 8 inches. *If* I were to take 8 units for 2d round plus use of Warscroll- again only units within 8 inches of the 1 hero get moves after 1st turn. Almost impossible to keep everyone with 8 especially with MSU bloodletters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Kharneth said: I've heard mention of WoK Bloodthirster being the best in general and at being the general. I've also heard that Gore Pilgrims are very powerful and I'm wondering if they're used together or are independently useful. Is Gore Pilgrims used in daemon or mixed armies (I assumed they were mostly mortal armies). Are WoK Bloodthirsters useful for mortal armies? If so, how? I like the +2 to unbind, but with 2 slaughterpriests, a bloodsecrator, and the brazen rune I wonder if a +2 to unbind is really all that important. Below is an example of the WoK Thirster in a Gore Pilgrims list. Basically, the Thirster uses his command and the extra command points to catapult himself and an amped-up Letterbomb or two straight into the enemy's face in Turn 1. It's a one-trick army, vulnerable to screens and counterpunches, but can be absolutely devastating under the right circumstances. +2 to unbind is super useful, especially against Death armies, which are prevalent these days, or ANY army with overwhelming magic superiority. Ditto Brazen Rune obviously. The WoK Thirster does nothing directly for Mortals, but he and his attendant Letterbombs work well in a Mortals "support framework" if you get what I mean. Allegiance: KhorneMortal Realm: HyshWrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)- General- Trait: Immense Power - Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Bloodsecrator (140)- Artefact: The Brazen Rune Slaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzySlaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzySlaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzyBloodstoker (80)30 x Bloodletters (320)30 x Bloodletters (320)10 x Blood Warriors (200)- Goreaxe & Gorefist- 1x Goreglaives10 x Bloodreavers (70)- Meatripper AxesGore Pilgrims (200)Total: 1950 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 132 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 58 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said: Increasing priests after they increased gore pilgrims would be a big hit. Of course if Blood warriors saw a drop it might balance out. 5 for 90 feels right for them as they can only take the one special weapon per 10, as compared to liberators who can take 1 per 5 and are 100 points. I think it's a conscious design feature. Blood Warriors are 1 in 10 because they can be amped-up far more than Liberators can. You need to consider the broader context IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Roark said: I think it's a conscious design feature. Blood Warriors are 1 in 10 because they can be amped-up far more than Liberators can. You need to consider the broader context IMHO. 10 buffed up blood warriors don't hit as hard as 5 unbuffed skull reapers. No rend and 1 damage will only do so much, even if all their hits and wounds go through. And there are actually quite a few buffs available to liberators including spells that buff melee, lanterns to buff saves, lord celestant hit buff, extra attack from Vandus Hammerhand in a Hammers of Sigmar army, etc. Granted you wouldn't waste all of your buffs on liberators if there was a more powerful candidate however the exact same applies to blood warriors and so I think in the broader context they are a very fair comparison. Edited November 14, 2018 by Agent of Chaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said: 10 buffed up blood warriors don't hit as hard as 5 unbuffed skull reapers. No rend and 1 damage will only do so much, even if all their hits and wounds go through. And there are actually quite a few buffs available to liberators including spells that buff melee, lanterns to buff saves, lord celestant hit buff, extra attack from Vandus Hammerhand in a Hammers of Sigmar army, etc. Granted you wouldn't waste all of your buffs on liberators if there was a more powerful candidate however the exact same applies to blood warriors. Totally agree RE Skullreapers etc. I was talking purely about the Libs comparison RE unit superweapon availability, which people often like to make. Back in the dawn of AoS when both units were designed, I suspect Blood Warriors were jipped on superweapon availability because they could easily be amped up to 4-5 attacks each due to what else was available in the army. Libs couldn't/can't achieve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 At the end of the day I'm happy for blood warriors to stay at the current points, as long as they don't touch priests! I mean, if a priest is worth more than 100 points, a Daughters of Kaine Hag Queen who gives reroll wounds and no battleshock WITHOUT NEEDING TO ROLL!!! has got to be worth 200+ (currently 60...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I'll wager those Hags go up to ~120... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Double or nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I feel like changing slaughterpriests to 3+ to pray and changing gore pilgrims to reroll 1s on prayers would work fix a lot of issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 When something gives a unit +1 to hit or to wound does this negate the ability to reroll 1s? For example, Blood Warriors with Goreaxes blessed with Killing Frenzy. When they roll a 1 can they reroll it or does it count as a 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, Kharneth said: When something gives a unit +1 to hit or to wound does this negate the ability to reroll 1s? For example, Blood Warriors with Goreaxes blessed with Killing Frenzy. When they roll a 1 can they reroll it or does it count as a 2? Pretty sure rerolls of 1 mean Natural (aka physical) Rolls of 1. Otherwise there would be reports of people being able to reroll 2's due to -1 modifiers and I'm pretty sure that does not exist. 17 hours ago, Roark said: I think it's a conscious design feature. Blood Warriors are 1 in 10 because they can be amped-up far more than Liberators can. You need to consider the broader context IMHO. To be fair they designed the box back at the literal start of AoS, and the game meta has changed quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, kenshin620 said: Pretty sure rerolls of 1 mean Natural (aka physical) Rolls of 1. Otherwise there would be reports of people being able to reroll 2's due to -1 modifiers and I'm pretty sure that does not exist. To be fair they designed the box back at the literal start of AoS, and the game meta has changed quite a bit. Do 1s always fail, still? If a Juggerlord with Ghyrstrike uses its command ability to get +1 to wound stacked with the +1 from the weapon will he automatically wound all hits or will he still roll? I'm trying to figure out which 2 artefacts and which command trait to take, and on who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, Kharneth said: Do 1s always fail, still? If a Juggerlord with Ghyrstrike uses its command ability to get +1 to wound stacked with the +1 from the weapon will he automatically wound all hits or will he still roll? I'm trying to figure out which 2 artefacts and which command trait to take, and on who. In the main rules (available on the app for free) it states natural 1 is always fail and natural 6 always succeeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Is there any way to give a Juggerlord reroll to hit? Sorry, dumb question haha. So I might've mislead myself. I believed that if I used the Juggerlord's +1 to wound on the charge command ability on my Skullreapers they would be unable to roll 1s to wound and therefore be unable to harm themselves. But this isn't true? What I should be looking for is rerolling 1s to wound? A question about Gore Pilgrims and the Bloodsecrator, how exactly does the portal work and how do people use it? If I open it, can I move on the following turns and keep it open? Do people usually open the portal on their first turn and then follow the army on the following turn? Or do you run forward and open it on turn 2 in the center of the board and remain stationary for the game? Edited November 15, 2018 by Kharneth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Kharneth said: When something gives a unit +1 to hit or to wound does this negate the ability to reroll 1s? For example, Blood Warriors with Goreaxes blessed with Killing Frenzy. When they roll a 1 can they reroll it or does it count as a 2? Rerolls happen before modifiers. If you have a rule that allows you to reroll ones: If you roll a 1 you reroll it. Now you apply the modifier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksteve Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 4 hours ago, Kharneth said: Is there any way to give a Juggerlord reroll to hit? Sorry, dumb question haha. So I might've mislead myself. I believed that if I used the Juggerlord's +1 to wound on the charge command ability on my Skullreapers they would be unable to roll 1s to wound and therefore be unable to harm themselves. But this isn't true? What I should be looking for is rerolling 1s to wound? A question about Gore Pilgrims and the Bloodsecrator, how exactly does the portal work and how do people use it? If I open it, can I move on the following turns and keep it open? Do people usually open the portal on their first turn and then follow the army on the following turn? Or do you run forward and open it on turn 2 in the center of the board and remain stationary for the game? To your first point die rolls follow the following steps: 1) Roll dice 2) Check results and apply rerolls 3) Check for any abilities that specify natural numbers 4) Apply modifiers. 5) Check remaining abilities (Such as skull reapers) 6) Keep in mind that natural 1s always miss regardless of modifiers To your second point: The portal only lasts until your next hero phase, so you have to reopen the portal every round you want it active which then prevents movement. Generally if the enemy will cause you to leave your 36" range in gore pligrims run foreward turn 1, else open and sit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I have a question, sry because i don't remember it. Natural 1s are failures, or natural 1s are considered as failures and 1s after modifiers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Darksteve said: To your first point die rolls follow the following steps: 1) Roll dice 2) Check results and apply rerolls 3) Check for any abilities that specify natural numbers 4) Apply modifiers. 5) Check remaining abilities (Such as skull reapers) 6) Keep in mind that natural 1s always miss regardless of modifiers So, if Skullreapers are benefitting from +1 to wound they cannot inflict mortal wounds on themselves? Their natural 1s will fail but not count as 1s? I understand that adding modifiers to 6+ abilities has an effect, but the Skullreaper ability says they take a mortal wound on the roll of a 1 to wound but does not specify natural or not. Edited November 15, 2018 by Kharneth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Keldaur said: I have a question, sry because i don't remember it. Natural 1s are failures, or natural 1s are considered as failures and 1s after modifiers? Natural 1s always fail and anything that becomes a 1 after modifiers (such as a 2 with a -1) will also fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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