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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion


Gaz Taylor
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without trawling back through pages, is the brass stampede worth taking.  By that I mean the old juggers with more juggers and a side order of juggers rather than the batalion that is no more - how does it fare in third?

its only... 

well..

Juggarnauts anonymous isn't holding any meetings at the moment and..

image.jpeg.7d58fb295e51c8d08f725cbe2a4d8f24.jpeg

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On 10/11/2021 at 6:28 AM, frenk_castle said:

Ulf Rot (Red Wolf my custom Mighty Lord of Khorne) with his flesh hound Kharga. Just got these sent by my commission painter.

Ulf_Rot_and_Kharga_001.jpg

Ulf_Rot_and_Kharga_002.jpg

Shame on that painter for not filling the gap on the hound!

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On 10/11/2021 at 8:49 AM, Kaleb Daark said:

without trawling back through pages, is the brass stampede worth taking.  By that I mean the old juggers with more juggers and a side order of juggers rather than the batalion that is no more - how does it fare in third?

its only... 

well..

Juggarnauts anonymous isn't holding any meetings at the moment and..

image.jpeg.7d58fb295e51c8d08f725cbe2a4d8f24.jpeg

I haven't tried them yet but based on pure theory I don't think they're going to be too great. In 2nd you could go for 6 crusher units to maximize your mortal wounds, but in 3rd you'll suffer from serious coherency issues once you go over 5 models. Combined with all of their weapons being 1" (seriously, why are bloodglaives not 2"?) you're generally going to want to run 3 man units, and at that size you're never really going to do a ton of damage. They're excellent tanks when you give them a +1 to their save, but you can only do that on 2 units (3 if you have a wizard and you can cast mystic shield), so all the extra units will 'only' have a 3+. 

On the other hand they do count as 2 models each for objectives and you could run just a bunch of 3 man units to snag objectives and be obnoxious to remove. Maybe 6 units backed up by Skarbrand and a wrath of khorne bloodthirster in reapers of vengeance could work? Or if you went with 5 units where one is 6 skullcrushers you could fit most of the list into a battle regiment. If you do give them a shot let us know how it goes, I'd love to have an excuse to pick up a few more boxes of them haha.

Edited by Grimrock
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The worst part about juggers is the fact that their base size is too large to proxy them as varanguard. 

But in all seriousness, they are pretty beefy, but you really won't kill anything. It may be fun to just take a bunch and run them onto objectives turn one and sit there, I could that maybe working in tandem with a daemon prince, and +1 save prayer. 

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Is there much of a consensus on the best way to run Archaon in a khorne list?

I’m looking to take this list to a tournament in about a month and I’d like to work out if it’s going to go okay or terribly.

 

Subfaction: Reapers of Vengeance
Grand Strategies: Beast Master
 

Archaon
Bloodstoker 
Bloodreavers w meatripper axes
Bloodreavers w meatripper axes

Khorgoraths 
Skullreapers 
Magore’s Fiends 
Riptooth 

Core Battalion for extra artifact
Bloodsecrator (General) Command Traits: Mage Eater
Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny

Slaughterpriest w Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest w Skullshard Mantle & Curse
Bloodreavers w knives
Hexgorger Skulls 

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3 hours ago, BVTeapot said:

Is there much of a consensus on the best way to run Archaon in a khorne list?

I’m looking to take this list to a tournament in about a month and I’d like to work out if it’s going to go okay or terribly.

 

Subfaction: Reapers of Vengeance
Grand Strategies: Beast Master
 

Archaon
Bloodstoker 
Bloodreavers w meatripper axes
Bloodreavers w meatripper axes

Khorgoraths 
Skullreapers 
Magore’s Fiends 
Riptooth 

Core Battalion for extra artifact
Bloodsecrator (General) Command Traits: Mage Eater
Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny

Slaughterpriest w Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest w Skullshard Mantle & Curse
Bloodreavers w knives
Hexgorger Skulls 

With Archaon it seems you may be better served with heal over curse but I'm also not an Archaon expert.

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16 minutes ago, The Red King said:

With Archaon it seems you may be better served with heal over curse but I'm also not an Archaon expert.

My thinking is that between his innate heal and heroic recovery he should be healing 2d3 a round, and curse should give a bit more offensive output with the reavers 

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On 10/18/2021 at 3:28 AM, BVTeapot said:

Is there much of a consensus on the best way to run Archaon in a khorne list?

I don't have any experience running Archaon, but I have some suggestions on how you can optimize your list otherwise.

The main problem I see here is staying power and objective control. 30 bloodreavers will not last very long at all, and once those are gone you have very few bodies to put on objectives. Magore's fiends are basically useless so I would axe them and slap in some more bloodreavers or maybe some doggos. I don't think a single Khorgorath is going to be of that much use, so I would axe it as well and slap in some more bloodreavers or doggos. With Magore's fiends and the khorgorath gone, you'll have 225 points to play with which I would fill with some combination of doggos or bloodreavers.

A second option, just a suggestion I'll throw out here as I think it's up to you, is to axe the Hex Gorger skulls and your second slaughterpriest (With the 3.0 rules you really only need 1 slaughterpriest if you're not taking a judgement) this gives you an additional 170 points to fill out how you want. Whether or not you take out the Hex Gorger skulls depends on how magic heavy you expect your meta to be, Hexgorger skulls make Lumineth very sad, but they're practically useless against Fyreslayers or KO, so it's really up to you. With all those spare points (i.e. without the skulls, magore's, khorgorath and slaughterpriest) I'd add 1 unit of skullreapers, 10 bloodreavers and some doggos for some bodies to get on objectives (doggos and 'reavers) and a little more punch to complement Archaon and force your opponent to split his attacks between multiple threats so he can't just target archaon and nuke him off the board.

Anyway, that's all my input, best of luck at your tournament! 

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Hey y'all so I've been fiddling with some lists for Khorne, and I've come up with a little something:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune
Bloodstoker (85)***
Bloodstoker (85)***
- General
- Command Trait: Hew the Foe
Slaughterpriest (110)***
- Prayer: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (205)**
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (205)**
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (205)**
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (155)
5 x Wrathmongers (155)

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
Drops: 15

I've made some interesting choices here, but hear me out. I know that buffs from multiple Bloodsecrators don't stack, but taking 2 allows me to spread the juicy buffs out and run them both up the board a little more aggressively. The main gimmick in this list is lots of bodies and wounds clogging up objectives and some sneaky movement shenanigan's with the the Goretide CA on the 'reavers and Whipped to Fury (20 + 2d6 inches movement). 

The Skullreapers and Wrathmongers provide the offensive punch and Bloodreavers run around the board piling onto objectives. The Karkadrak Lord is super Tanky and can do a decent bit of damage against weaker opponents. 

I'm not 100% sure about my artefact choice for Bloodsecrator #2, I'm wondering if it would be better to give him or one of my bloodstokers the +1 to run and charge aura artefact to give some additional help with movement. I'm also questioning if I want to swap out some of the skullreapers and wrathmongers with other stuff like some doggos or if there's something in my list that I'm missing that will hurt me big time in games.

What do you guys think? I'm open to any suggestions to maximize this list's potential, thanks in advance for any help!

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i know the karkalord is so beautifull but why don't you take daemon prince instead, it's the same save and with the same artefact it will be as tanky. With better chance of self healing, faster movement and at least one rend -2 weapon.

I'm not fan of dual bloostoker, dual bloodsecrator and dual wrathmongers. You could get another slaughterpriest and the hexgorger skulls (use them with daemon prince ability to jam enemy movement).

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I’ll second the daemon prince, you will determine when the battles happen. Denying movement is so important and with the battlefield sizes an 18 inch range is oppressive. He can the fight first and will do MW with his sword.

I would also consider making a Bloodsecrator your general. He has a 3+ save which is golden and will make it harder for him to be blasted off the board. Especially if garrisoned (which you should be doing to boost aura range) and if you have bronze flesh to boost his save more. It will help deny the opponent an easy battle tactics and vp 

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I ran 3 slaughterpriests, the hex gorger skulls and the DP for a LONG time and I love the skulls and the DP very much, but here's my thinking on why I'm choosing to run just 1 slaughterpriest and that's it. 

1. The DP's main gimmick is his CA, which is fantastic but I feel like it can hurt Khorne as it essentially slows down my opponent and makes him take longer to get into melee combat, which is were I ultimately want him. However it does allow for me to control the pace of the game and objectives more, so I think I'll try a couple games with the karkalord and the DP and see which one is a better fit in this list. Also on a somewhat unrelated note, one of my primary playing partner plays Seraphon and he LOVES his bastilodons so my DP just gets deleted on turn 1 anyway pretty much every game (I want this list to be a take all comers list but still that's not any fun)

2. I've never seen dual bloodstokers anywhere, and I have NEVER heard of anybody running dual bloodsecrators and I'm willing to take that first step for all of us blood god worshippers to see how that plays, spreading all those buffs around has to be good as well as splitting up my opponents shooting and magic so they can last longer.

3. With the 3.0 rules for priests, I feel like slaughterpriest's value has gone way down. We can no longer spam blood boil or bronzed flesh or whatever, and for that reason I think only 1-2 priests are viable, and in this list I feel like only 1 is needed for blood boil or bronzed flesh. I've mostly played against KO and fyreslayers recently (my uncle and I always duke it out whenever we can) so maybe I've forgotten the value of the hexgorger skulls somewhat and I'll remember if I go to a tourney and have to play some lumineth lol

4. I'm taking the 2 units of wrathmongers to throw more buffs around, with these two units and the 2 bloodsecrators I should be getting +2 attacks on a good portion of the board, but maybe it's not worth it and it'd be better to take some doggos or more bloodreavers, what do y'all think?

Also that's a good idea about the bloodsecrator, I hate to waste Hew the Foe but let's be honest it's not going to be that much more useful on a 'stoker lol. I'll slap the talisman of burning blood on one of the two bloodstokers then so I can get more use out of it.

I've got a fair number of games coming up, I'm playing my Seraphon friend next weekend and he's been bragging about the list he's taking that's got 40 Saurus knights in 8 units of 5 that gives them a ridiculous number of attacks on the charge, and for once he's not taking any bastilodons, so I think I'll take the DP for that game just to mess with him. I've also got my annual Thanksgiving Throwdown with my Uncle's dwarven hordes coming up, we'll play loads of warhammer games over the thanksgiving holiday and that's always lots of fun.

Thanks for all y'alls suggestions! I'll make a couple different small adjustments and try some things and I'll be to sure to tell you guys how this list plays!

Edited by ogarrah
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On 10/30/2021 at 12:45 AM, ogarrah said:

 I'll make a couple different small adjustments and try some things and I'll be to sure to tell you guys how this list plays!

I got to play 2 games of AoS yesterday, one 2000 point game against my Seraphon friend and a 1000 point game against my fyreslayer friend. I got the W in both games with pretty solid victories, and as promised I'll give a brief rundown of how things went and some thoughts.

Game 1: WIN

- 2000 Points vs. Seraphon

Battleplan: Feral Foray

My List:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- General
- Command Trait: Hew the Foe
Bloodstoker (85)***

-  Artefact: Talisman of the Burning Blood
Bloodstoker (85)***
Slaughterpriest (110)***
- Prayer: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (205)**
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (205)**
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (205)**
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (155)
5 x Wrathmongers (155)

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149
Drops: 15

Took the DP for this match, a run down of this list is a few posts above.

My Friends List:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (150)***
Saurus Sunblood (125)***
Saurus Sunblood (125)**
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (215)*
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
- Mount Trait: Beastmaster
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (215)***
- War Spear
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (215)***
- War Spear

Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (110)***
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)***
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)**
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)**
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)**
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)*
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)*
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)*
- Lances
10 x Skinks (75)*
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Vanguard
***Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146
Drops: 11

His list was basically built around souping up the Saurus Knights with an ungodly amount of buffs on the charge (with the koatls claw buff to jaws attacks, extra damage on the spears etc.) Whatever he got the charge off on would pretty much die, so protecting my important units from getting charged was going to be very important in this game. I felt pretty confident going up against this list, it's definitely not the best seraphon has to offer and there were no ranged threats, so I thought I could definitely hang.

Recap:

If there was one thing that won this game for me it was deployment, he dropped his knights and carnos in a loooooooong single model deep line across the entire length of the board with an extra rank of one unit of knights on each of the corners. I deployed in 3 main blobs, on the left and right side I had a unit of bloodreavers in front followed by a unit of skullreapers and then wrathmongers, with a bloodstoker behind each line and a bloodsecrator on the right side, with my general 'secrator garrisoned in the skull altar. In the center I had just a unit of bloodreavers screening some skullreapers with my daemon prince and slaughterpriest just to the left. The left side of the field is shown here. (The cavalry and cardboard cutouts are all knights, the 3d printed model is a carno and the bottlecaps are skinks, the first row of stormcast eternal models are skullreapers, and the second row is wrathmongers)

IMG_3365.jpeg.f2f869c68f132ad2796b74f008a788ed.jpeg

My thinking in putting the bloodreavers first is that he'd be forced to waste his charge into them, and he wouldn't blend my skullreapers and wrathmongers right off the bat. He went first and was only able to get 3 units of knights to my front line, 1 on the left side and 2 in the middle. My 'reaver screen worked like a charm, he couldn't get the distance to get all the way around and get to my punchy units, he was forced to put his attacks into the bloodreavers, which were of course deleted instantly. This definitely hurt him, because with them out of the way, my skullreapers were able to pile in and slice and dice up his knights, and by the end of my turn I had killed all but 3 of the 15 knights while only losing 30 bloodreavers.

IMG_3369.jpeg.8b5089764200e9ef468b8a15bb723211.jpeg

I was fortunate to get the double turn, and from there we went back and forth trading blows, we got 4 VP in each of our turns until Round 3, when he failed to get his battle tactic and I gained control 4 of the 5 remaining objectives and earned 4 VP (I also whiffed on the BT that round).

IMG_0052.jpeg.2616aa10ae9fb500e4adc8d68a6c3d22.jpeg

We decided to call the game at the start of Round 4. I only had a 1 point lead, but all he had left was one full strength carno, a sunblood and 10 skinks, and he only controlled 1 objective while I had the DP, 1 bloodsecrator, a 4/5 unit of skullreapers and a 4/5 unit of Wrathmongers plus 20 bloodletters I had just summoned, had we played a full game, he would have been tabled and I would have won, but I had the lead already so we ended things there with a final score of 13-12.

Epic moments of the match for me were when the unit of skullreapers on the right side blew through 5 saurus knights and thanks to whipped to fury got all the way to his backline carno, sunblood and astrolith banner who were camping on his right side objective. Thanks to the fight in the hero phase bloodtithe reward, I aced the carno before it could do anything in my turn, and in subsequent battle rounds the skullreapers smoked the sunblood and the banner bearer, gaining me that back objective by round 3.

IMG_3364.jpeg.69fb5cc2d10edff39bfda58d98c06ff0.jpeg

Another epic moment was when my bloodsecrator on the right side of the field killed 2 knights all by himself to keep my right objective under my control which was very clutch.

Overall, I think this was a very resounding victory, I was able to kill 2 of his carnos, all but 2 of his knights and all his foot units except for 1 sunblood and the 10 skinks which stayed on his back objective the entire game, all while keeping a decent amount of my models. I'll give a more detailed explanation of my thoughts in the conclusion after I recap the second game.

Game 2: WIN

- 1000 Points vs. Fyreslayers

Battleplan: The Veins of Ghur

My List:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- General
- Command Trait: Hew the Foe
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc
Bloodstoker (85)*
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (80)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (205)
- Daemonblades
5 x Wrathmongers (155)

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Strategists

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 955 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 69
Drops: 7

Basically my 2k list sliced in half, took the karkalord this time around cuz why not

His List:

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Vostarg
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Runic Iron
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (285)
- General

Battleline
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (160)
- Handaxes & Slingshields
15 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (375)
- Broadaxes
- Reinforced x 2

Total: 940 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 69
Drops: 4

Fairly simple Fyreslayers list, hearthguard tunnel with the runesmiter and pop out right in your face, nothing too exotic or anything for 1k.

Recap:

Honestly not too much to say about this one or too much to take away from it, I just wanted to talk about it here because it was hilarious. I ended up tabling his entire army by Round 3, my Karkalord singlehandedly took out 10 Vulkite Bezerkers, The Runefather on magmadroth and 11 Hearthguard bezerkers (most of them with the 4+ FNP from the Runesmiter) which you love to see. With +2 attacks (From the wrathmongers and bloodsecrator) and all out attack he's a bit of a beast. It was only my friends second game of AoS (I converted him from 40k), so I'm not going to read too much into the results or anything I just thought it was funny, it's the first time I've ever tabled someone with Khorne lol so that was cool.

IMG_3377.jpeg.12eff82316ac90658e675806599d19c1.jpeg

Takeaways:

Ok so I think my 2k list has some play, obviously I'll need to test it out some more, but I REALLY like having 2 units of wrathmongers and 2 bloodsecrators, I pretty much have my entire army at +2 attacks at all times which turns everything into a blender. One concern I felt from taking an earlier version of this list against my uncles KO (Similar concept, but no double bloodsecrator) was staying power, against armies that put out a lot of ranged damage my ranks got thinned very quickly and I couldn't stick around with enough stuff late in the battle. That issue didn't really pop up here, in melee I had a pretty definitive advantage and I was able to outlast my opponent.

As for the DP vs. Karkadrak Lord, I'd say the jury is still out, in the game against Seraphon I actually didn't use his CA at all, after the first battle round I decided to just let him come to me, I didn't want my units to get out of formation so I could protect my melee blenders from getting destroyed. And then of course there's the karkadrak lord tabling almost 1k of fyreslayers. The DP is definitely more versatile, but it'll take some more playing to determine which one fits best in this list.

I've got some more games coming up over thanksgiving break, I'll be playing my uncles KO and fyreslayer armies, I'm interested to find out how this list does against heavy shooting and a WAY more experienced FS player, so we'll see how things go!

 

 

Edited by ogarrah
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@The Red King Hadnt really thought to compare them but I guess as hard hitting elite units its fair to do so. 

Assuming min sized units and Great Axes on the Bullgor...

Skullreapers have 15 wounds at a 4+ save and are immune to battleshock vs Bullgors with 12 wounds, 5+ save and only bravery 6. Although the Bullgor banner will likely increase their bravery by at least 1 and likely more so, meaning they are at least highly resistant to battleshock, the Skullreapers are still far more survivable and do not lose damage output from casualties as dramatically as bullgors do.

Bullgors have the speed advantage at move 7 vs move 5 (with neither being particularly fast) while both units get +1 to charge. Both units have a 1" reach (Bullgor great axes with 1" reach... really GW???) so coherency for reinforced units is an issue for both of them.

At full strength Skullreapers have 20 attacks doing mortal wounds on 6's to hit yet mystifyingly have no rend, but are at least 3+ to hit and wound. They also have 1 x D3 damage attack at rend 1 that never does anything. Against most units they will reroll their hits so you can fish for 6's and they have a 1/3 chance to do D3 mortal wounds on death.

Meanwhile Bullgors have 7 attacks at rend 2, damage 3 but they hit on 4+ and another 6 attacks on 4's and 4's, no rend, 1 dmg (i.e. nothing). 6's to wound cause a mortal wound, they also do D3 mortals on the charge and have a chance to heal which is nice. 

So in summary:

Skullreapers are tailormade for blending lightly armoured hordes however will struggle to do damage against anything with a decent save unless they spike a bunch of 6's. This is particularly relevant in AOS3 with the save stacking available to many armies while it also seems hordes are not as prevalent as they once were. They still throw a ton of dice and don't need All Out Attack to be effective which means you can save that buff for someone else while the Skullreapers use All Out Defence to be even more survivable.

Aside from the regular khorne buffs, they have the mortal keyword and so can benefit from Khorne subfaction bonuses and other buffs unique to mortals such as a bloodstoker to mitigate their slow movement or an Aspiring Deathbringer for even more attacks (could get to 7 attacks each quite easily) but these buffs are not essential for them to do work. 

 

Bullgors with their 4+ to hit on only 7 attacks are even more swingy, but with rend 2 they can do decent damage to high armour provided they can hit, although with save stacking rend 2 is not as good as it used to be. At least now in AOS3 you have near guaranteed access to +1 to hit however that means they are stuck with their 5+ save.

Also as they are not mortal or daemon they don't synergise with any other available khorne buffs aside from the usual Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers and prayers. I would say that you need to bring a Doombull to really make them effective which is a valuable hero slot in a khorne army.

Overall I think Skullreapers come out ahead but that is reflected in them costing 50 more points at min size.  

As always do what you like, apply rule of cool and have fun! Thats all that matters 🙂

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I appreciate the commentary but I should add that bullgors arent entirely unbuffable in khorne. Khorgus khul or anyone with the artifact that let's khorne units re roll ones can also be applied them. They do desperately need all out attack but idk. I guess I just dont see big hordes of lightly armored dudes in my meta. I guess it's nice to know they're comparable though. I got some mierce mini werewolf guys I'm gonna add skullreaper armor and weapons too. I'll give em a try.

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Mark of the Slayer gives reroll 1's for all khorne. I didnt go into all the buffs as Skullreapers can benefit from that too so wanted to focus more on what made them unique.

But you raise one of the more important points; your local meta and what you expect to face are very relevant. If hordes then reapers, if high armoured elites then bullgors might be the better option, although remember that the mortal wounds from skullreapers go straight through that high armour and they're a decent chance of being able to reroll and fish for 6's. Obviously bulls can do mortals as well but reapers will do a lot more on average. 

Maybe it comes down to how many points you have to spend and what buffing units you are taking. Bullgors you probably need to build your list around to get the most out of them (which is a perfectly fine thing to do) whereas Skullreapers are quite independant and can do a job on their own. No reason why you couldnt have both units in the same list. 

In fact here is something I cooked up a while ago but havnt tried yet:

       
       
Warlord Notes Role Points
Doombull   Leader 115
Bloodsecrator General, Trait: Berzerker Lord
Artifact: The Brazen Rune
Leader 125
Bloodstoker Artifact: Talisman of Burning Blood Leader 85
3 x Bullgors Great Axes   155
3 x Bullgors Great Axes   155
       
Warlord Notes Role Points
Daemon Prince Artifact: Mark of the Slayer Leader 210
Slaughterpriest Prayer: Killing Frenzy Leader 110
Aspiring Deathbringer   Leader 85
10 x Bloodreavers   Battleline 80
5 x Flesh Hounds   Battleline 105
       
Hunters of the Heartlands Notes Role Points
5 x Wrathmongers     155
5 x Skullreapers     205
5 x Skullreapers     205
       
5 x Flesh Hounds   Battleline 105
5 x Flesh Hounds   Battleline 105
       
    TOTAL = 2000
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Anyone have any experience with heavy STD lists, especially varanguard?

And how essential is the double Warlord?

Put this list together aiming to maximise double pile-ins with the buffed Varanguard and BT. BSG spam and 4 chaff units for board control, then 3 monsters for BTs. 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Aspiring Deathbringer (85)*
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: The Blood-forged Armour

Bloodstoker (85)*
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Artefact: Crimson Crown
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Slaughterpriest (110)**
- Prayer: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (80)*
10 x Bloodreavers (80)**
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)***

Units
3 x Varanguard (280)***
3 x Varanguard (280)***
9 x Untamed Beasts (70) - Allies
1 x Cockatrice (95)
1 x Cockatrice (95)

Core Battalions
*Warlord - Artefact
**Warlord - Artefact 
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1980 / 2000
Wounds: 127
Drops: 14

Edited by Leemer
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16 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Mark of the Slayer gives reroll 1's for all khorne. I didnt go into all the buffs as Skullreapers can benefit from that too so wanted to focus more on what made them unique.

But you raise one of the more important points; your local meta and what you expect to face are very relevant. If hordes then reapers, if high armoured elites then bullgors might be the better option, although remember that the mortal wounds from skullreapers go straight through that high armour and they're a decent chance of being able to reroll and fish for 6's. Obviously bulls can do mortals as well but reapers will do a lot more on average. 

Maybe it comes down to how many points you have to spend and what buffing units you are taking. Bullgors you probably need to build your list around to get the most out of them (which is a perfectly fine thing to do) whereas Skullreapers are quite independant and can do a job on their own. No reason why you couldnt have both units in the same list. 

In fact here is something I cooked up a while ago but havnt tried yet:

       
       
Warlord Notes Role Points
Doombull   Leader 115
Bloodsecrator General, Trait: Berzerker Lord
Artifact: The Brazen Rune
Leader 125
Bloodstoker Artifact: Talisman of Burning Blood Leader 85
3 x Bullgors Great Axes   155
3 x Bullgors Great Axes   155
       
Warlord Notes Role Points
Daemon Prince Artifact: Mark of the Slayer Leader 210
Slaughterpriest Prayer: Killing Frenzy Leader 110
Aspiring Deathbringer   Leader 85
10 x Bloodreavers   Battleline 80
5 x Flesh Hounds   Battleline 105
       
Hunters of the Heartlands Notes Role Points
5 x Wrathmongers     155
5 x Skullreapers     205
5 x Skullreapers     205
       
5 x Flesh Hounds   Battleline 105
5 x Flesh Hounds   Battleline 105
       
    TOTAL = 2000

So I went back and ran my numbers through stathammer again and assuming that both units recieve +2 attacks from a bloodsecrator/wrathmongers, and both units recieve AoA, and the skullreapers are swinging into a unit that gives them full rerolls, the bulls will still outperform against anything that doesn't have a - save. Now in my list I'm running khul so the numbers actually favor the bulls even more there but that's 2 CP and most people aren't running him so I left out the reroll 1s he gives out.

 

Though running in goretide assuming the skullreapers will get the  rr 1's to wound near an objective bonus (that bulls cant get, and assuming the bulls dont get the rr 1's from either khul or mark of the slayer) leaves the skullreapers outperforming against some targets with minimal investment.

 

Ultimately you're right that you have to build more for bulls than for reapers but at least with the list I was already running anyway there isn't that much opportunity cost and luckily the variance is so marginal that it isn't a case of "X is always better" which I like. 

 

Edited to add a final screenshot of how the numbers look if they DO reroll 1s to hit. Since it's not a difficult buff to get but it only benefits the bulls since skullreapers I'm already assuming to be rerolling all hits.

20211108_155256.jpg

20211108_155727.jpg

20211108_160203.jpg

Edited by The Red King
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Looking for some advice please - Trying to make chaos knights work in 1.5k list - this is where I’m at.  Not sure which slaughterhost/artefacts/prayers/grand strategy would work with it - any suggestions?  Thanks
D5E13966-DC68-4EC3-9174-FD974D80DCD5.jpeg.905d3afd84176e5f8d8e7fe9c7c0d274.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Brother Mayhem said:

Hi all! I have 10 blood warriors I need to assemble - what configuration is better? Gorefists or Dual Weapons?

I've just started on a Khorne army too and I'm going through the same quandry.

Currently I think Gorefists are better, but you just know that when we get a new book it's gonna be dual axes all the way!😄

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On 11/9/2021 at 6:00 AM, AdamR said:

I've just started on a Khorne army too and I'm going through the same quandry.

Currently I think Gorefists are better, but you just know that when we get a new book it's gonna be dual axes all the way!😄

I personally built mine with the Banner, Gore Glaive, 4x with dual axes, 4x with gorefists so they can be used as either, just telling my opponent what they are equipped with at the start of the game.  None of my friends care much for wysiwyg however.

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