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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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50 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Can someone please clarify what allows us to use Bloodtithe in our opponents hero phase (other than the unbind spell ability)? 

I know it says "in THE hero phase" however it came up in a game recently where my opponent did not accept that meant I could use it in either hero phase and not just my own.

We checked the FAQ's but couldn't see anything there.

Words do. Your hero phase is your hero phase. The hero phase is either hero phase.

Sorry that your opponent doesn’t want to believe it, but you don’t need his permission to play by the rules.

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How hard would it have been for the rule to say, "in either player's hero phase you may spend bloodtithe..."

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2 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

How hard would it have been for the rule to say, "in either player's hero phase you may spend bloodtithe..."

Sure, but why?

Elegance and the expectations that people can understand a language are reasonable and laudable.

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39 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Sure, but why?

Elegance and the expectations that people can understand a language are reasonable and laudable.

I think he has a point. These details aren't obvious to new players. Adding a few words to the description could only help.

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8 hours ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

They are far too 40k in design.  They have spinal attachments and vials sculpted into their backs and the boots they wear and trousers are also very sci-fi in design. 

You'd be better off using bloodreaver heavily converted in all honesty.

Actually I converted a group of Goliath’s into skullreapers they work well. What I did was use spare ensorcelled weapons from knights. It took some snipping for sure and some careful filing. 

To cover the tech vials and things I had the skull kit so had many small skulls to strap around the body. Put them over the vials and tech looking parts. Certain torso/arm kits work better.

I used spare skullcrusher knight heads I had for helms. 

The hardest part was green stuffing tiny ropes to attach the skulls around the bracers/vials. My green stuff skills are novice at best though. 

They turned out fantastic and get a lot of comments from people that see them in tournaments. They were a lot of work though for a 5 man unit. I only did it because I had all the spare parts! 

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6 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

How hard would it have been for the rule to say, "in either player's hero phase you may spend bloodtithe..."

it is Designers Commentary in fact:

image.png.b017b833ecaff69334fcb87e5b8f1954.png

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9 hours ago, Sneeto said:

Actually I converted a group of Goliath’s into skullreapers they work well. What I did was use spare ensorcelled weapons from knights. It took some snipping for sure and some careful filing. 

To cover the tech vials and things I had the skull kit so had many small skulls to strap around the body. Put them over the vials and tech looking parts. Certain torso/arm kits work better.

I used spare skullcrusher knight heads I had for helms. 

The hardest part was green stuffing tiny ropes to attach the skulls around the bracers/vials. My green stuff skills are novice at best though. 

They turned out fantastic and get a lot of comments from people that see them in tournaments. They were a lot of work though for a 5 man unit. I only did it because I had all the spare parts! 

Have any pics? I used blood warrior legs and bloodreaver heads to convert some for my army. I’d love to see yours to get more ideas. Thanks! 

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https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/AoSFPScenery-May17-PenumbralFunction11ux.jpg

 

So how useful do we reckon this is for us? If it costs nothing and we get it ON TOP of the altar, I don't see the reason to not take it really.

It does affect enemies which could be as much of a problem as it provides a buff. However wholly within 12 might be difficult for enemies to get into, if we are clever with positioning.

What do we think?

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13 minutes ago, fwlr said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/AoSFPScenery-May17-PenumbralFunction11ux.jpg

 

So how useful do we reckon this is for us? If it costs nothing and we get it ON TOP of the altar, I don't see the reason to not take it really.

It does affect enemies which could be as much of a problem as it provides a buff. However wholly within 12 might be difficult for enemies to get into, if we are clever with positioning.

What do we think?

It's unlikely that these will find their way into matched play.

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Does anyone maybe have major victories to report? I am actually really not motivated in this army anymore, and thinking about withdrawing from it.

Just comes from the fact, that the army is just not good designed. I know, a lot of people will defend it and tell me to get good. But that doesn't really help. Getting clubbed and battered for years now and the new book made it slightly better, but still I am not able to win a single game.

Trying out all those lists, but it's just not working.

Maybe someone, who can bring a fresh wind into this topic, to get motivated again?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, fwlr said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/AoSFPScenery-May17-PenumbralFunction11ux.jpg

 

So how useful do we reckon this is for us? If it costs nothing and we get it ON TOP of the altar, I don't see the reason to not take it really.

It does affect enemies which could be as much of a problem as it provides a buff. However wholly within 12 might be difficult for enemies to get into, if we are clever with positioning.

What do we think?

I think they may do something where you can only take 1 terrain warscroll per army, so either altar or penumbral.

 

Or it ends up as another Magewrath Throne.

Edited by kenshin620

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32 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Does anyone maybe have major victories to report? I am actually really not motivated in this army anymore, and thinking about withdrawing from it.

Just comes from the fact, that the army is just not good designed. I know, a lot of people will defend it and tell me to get good. But that doesn't really help. Getting clubbed and battered for years now and the new book made it slightly better, but still I am not able to win a single game.

Trying out all those lists, but it's just not working.

Maybe someone, who can bring a fresh wind into this topic, to get motivated again?

If you just care about winning them you'll probably have to keep switching armies as the meta changes. Or just build the models you like and play casually.

I will be surprised if Khorne mortals don't see some point reductions.

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We need a resanguination for our brother stat!

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

Does anyone maybe have major victories to report?

My khorne boys came in second in a local tournament the weekend before slaanesh came out. Beat some fireslayers and a fellow khornate before having the slaanesh game I reported the weekend after the tournament. Probably going to the club this weekend, I'll hopefully be able to report some glorious victories for you.

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

Maybe someone, who can bring a fresh wind into this topic, to get motivated again?

Not knowing what is causing your problems I'm not sure if what I have to say will help. I don't mean what armies you're facing either. I mean what about how your army plays is bothering you? Also, sometimes you just have to give the army a break. I switched over to playing FEC (before the recent battletome) because I wanted something similar but with a different vibe. (I know, scandalous!) I liked the idea of "noble" knights going forth to repel horrid invaders to their lord's enlightened realm. It also offered me excellent conversion opportunities (which is my favorite part of the hobby). Switching things up isn't necessarily bad, variety is the spice of life after all.

Now if you want to stick with Khorne … I've found that there are about 2 different overall strategies with variations there of when you're building a list.  (Disclaimer: I'm not a guru or even a tournament buff, apply grains of salt liberally) You could try mixing, but that has been beyond my list building skills.

1:The Lawn Mower: Slap down chaff to catch nasty things before they reach your hammers. My personal preference is the close in formation, but you'll have to base your formations on who you're fighting. Sometimes you don't want to be close to your chaff, or you'll have to use them to ward off deep strikers. But the core of this style is defense and keeping everyone safely under the buff auras. Most often result if your opponent is foolish enough to charge the mower is that the chaff disintegrates and the offending arm is destroyed. You might be surprised at how many people think that their nifty hammer can survive the mower's blades. Certain units are more difficult to deal with than others (as with all things) This type of list is a bit more vulnerable to consistent outflankers and prolonged ranged barrages. Which is where I typically awkwardly switch to style 2.

2: The Rush: This typically involves selecting a variant of someone who lets you run and charge and hitting your opponent for maximum effect. We are far from the only one to use this strategy so most people will have something in mind to face it. We aren't dependent on first turn to use ours though, so it might be better to wait (*GASP!* Waiting!?) and throw the hatchet when your opponent's tender bits are exposed. You don't necessarily need to use the run and charge mechanic  to use this strategy, you just have to be reasonably fast. I'd throw the brass stampede (and whatever it's daemon equivalent) into this idea as well, even with their 8" move. 

If you want I can go into more detail on my thoughts on these strategies (goes for whoever) but for now, that's what I got for help.  Unless you're looking for conversion ideas, in which case I'm full of 'em.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Does anyone maybe have major victories to report? I am actually really not motivated in this army anymore, and thinking about withdrawing from it.

Just comes from the fact, that the army is just not good designed. I know, a lot of people will defend it and tell me to get good. But that doesn't really help. Getting clubbed and battered for years now and the new book made it slightly better, but still I am not able to win a single game.

Trying out all those lists, but it's just not working.

Maybe someone, who can bring a fresh wind into this topic, to get motivated again?

I play khorne since the beginnings of AOS and it's by far our best battletome. I won most of my matches (around 80%). But the army indeed need some tactical skill, it's not a point and delete army like the FEC gristelgore pain train.

The most important part of the army is placement. Placement of your units around objectives, around each other to take profit of buffs, around the opponent to affect them as most as possible with our debuffs and aoe (cf wrathmongers), placement of our slaughterpriests around the altars, of our judgements to block the opponent without injuring our own troops.

I play a slaughterborn mortal lhorne list in goretide. My units need to be wholly within 18" of the bloodsecrator, wholly within 8" of the wrathmongers, and wholly within 12" of the objectives. It's not easy, but when everything "click", it's a well-oiled machine that crush mechanically everything.

The imprevisibility of the army, with out of phase activations, including in the ennemy turn and "strike after death" mechanic are its saving grace. I play with bloodwarriors, skullreapers and wrathmongers. When i make good save rolls, my opponent take damage. When i die, my opponent take more damages. It's beautiful to see.

The army still have lots of problems against shooting lists, but you can't be good against everything. The deal is to catch and kill in melee weaker opponents, and to play and avoid stronger opponents, ganging them up at 2/3/4 units against one.

Edited by ledha
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I have to agree that this is a strong book. I've been doing well in my games and I was pretty down when the new book came out. I'm not sure we will get point drops simply because what I have been using has been doing well... Almost better than well. Ive generally been ahead most games, then towards the end drop 10 flesh hounds. Its nice.

I dismantled a nighthaunt player last weekend. It was better part of valor and I just shut the door on him. My skullreapers and blood warriors swept from the right edge and gobbled up units to the left side of the table. I recorded the game and I'm trying to figure out how to edit it so I can upload the game. I'll try to take photos next time and do a written report.

If you are feeling flat about mortals try fielding a blood stoker. They throw our units over the top. Blood warriors are a force to be reckoned with when they re-roll wounds. Slaugterborn and bronzed flesh make stuff super tanky too. I love it.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, kahadin said:

I dismantled a nighthaunt player last weekend. It was better part of valor and I just shut the door on him. My skullreapers and blood warriors swept from the right edge and gobbled up units to the left side of the table. I recorded the game and I'm trying to figure out how to edit it so I can upload the game. I'll try to take photos next time and do a written report.

To be fair, Nighthaunt is probably the second worst battletome-faction, right after KO.

In my last game against them it pretty much felt like nothing he did mattered. He got the charges he wanted, he got the double turns he wanted and I still won without breaking a sweat. Which I sadly cannot attribute to my "elite" playstyle nor my own army.

Edited by Xasz
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Thank you so much!

I am much more motivated, that there seem to really be good ways to actually be good. So I will have to seartch for the issues by myslef, meaning I do the mistakes, apparently.

9 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

1:The Lawn Mower: Slap down chaff to catch nasty things before they reach your hammers. My personal preference is the close in formation, but you'll have to base your formations on who you're fighting. Sometimes you don't want to be close to your chaff, or you'll have to use them to ward off deep strikers. But the core of this style is defense and keeping everyone safely under the buff auras. Most often result if your opponent is foolish enough to charge the mower is that the chaff disintegrates and the offending arm is destroyed. You might be surprised at how many people think that their nifty hammer can survive the mower's blades. Certain units are more difficult to deal with than others (as with all things) This type of list is a bit more vulnerable to consistent outflankers and prolonged ranged barrages. Which is where I typically awkwardly switch to style 2.

2: The Rush: This typically involves selecting a variant of someone who lets you run and charge and hitting your opponent for maximum effect. We are far from the only one to use this strategy so most people will have something in mind to face it. We aren't dependent on first turn to use ours though, so it might be better to wait (*GASP!* Waiting!?) and throw the hatchet when your opponent's tender bits are exposed. You don't necessarily need to use the run and charge mechanic  to use this strategy, you just have to be reasonably fast. I'd throw the brass stampede (and whatever it's daemon equivalent) into this idea as well, even with their 8" move.

What Chaff units do you usually use? I am going with those 5 men groups of Blood Warriors with Gore Fists. Why 5 though? They really waste the enemie's time, and they throw the same amount of MW on 6er save, than any other group size. So I would really give the other players a lot of small groups, that will be annoying for him :)
You Hammers are usually Wrathmingers & Skullreapers, as I see. What buffs would you give them?

And now the question, that made me reconcider my own mindset. How do you run & charge? What Abilities do you use therefore and wich buffs?

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30 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Thank you so much!

I am much more motivated, that there seem to really be good ways to actually be good. So I will have to seartch for the issues by myslef, meaning I do the mistakes, apparently.

What Chaff units do you usually use? I am going with those 5 men groups of Blood Warriors with Gore Fists. Why 5 though? They really waste the enemie's time, and they throw the same amount of MW on 6er save, than any other group size. So I would really give the other players a lot of small groups, that will be annoying for him :)
You Hammers are usually Wrathmingers & Skullreapers, as I see. What buffs would you give them?

And now the question, that made me reconcider my own mindset. How do you run & charge? What Abilities do you use therefore and wich buffs?

5 blood warriors with fists are good chaff, a little bit more expensive than 10 reavers but bring a lot more.

If you are tight on points then 10 reavers  will still work as a 1 turn bump. I do like playing them passive aggressively by lining up units of 10 3 inches apart so the enemy unit kills the first unit but knows full well next turn it will have to attack the second and  be wasted on another 10 reavers. Sometimes you don’t need to kill a unit to take it out the game holding it in place for 2 or 3 turns so it wastes attacks can be just as useful. And all the while the decent units do the damage.

Run and charge is an ability of the goretide slaughterhost. Reavers and warriors can be made to run 6 inch and still be able to charge.

In another useful topic, be careful with tithe. Sometimes it’s better to summon smaller things than save up for a thirster. Or the tithe table can be an even better investment e.g. in a recent game my daemon prince could move 2x12 inch and charge and then pile in twice thanks to 3 tithe and a command point. A 24 inch+ threat range on a model that can deal D6 MW on a 4+...

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1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

Snip

Just one last tip for you, pick a list/style that you want to play. Then stick with it for a while. Don't go and completely change your list every time you play a match, get some experience with a particular build. 

Make tweaks if you need to, but try and think of every unit has having a set role (maybe with flexibility to fill multiple roles) and if they aren't performing in that particular role, look to make adjustments.

Hope this helps in some way

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Another thing to keep in mind is that whenever slaves to darkness get updated, they'll probably get improved warscrolls which will likely have some affect on all the god armies.

Like the Slaughterbrute.

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@Praecautus@Retrothank you already :)

At this point I had kind of the best success with this list:

Reapers of Vengeance

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage as General
Slaughterpriest with Bronzed Flesh
5 BWs
5 BWs
6 Khorgoraths

I played just yesterday versus Fyreslayers and almost destroyed everything in his army, but amde some mistakes:

1. Khorgoraths are not really benefitial in a 6er unit, would go with 2x3 now.
2. I went too close with some units, so he got them all into melee.

The rest went pretty good, my buffed BT destroyed almost 40% of his army within 2 turns on his own.

Further adjustment would now be:

Reapers of Vengeance
BTIR as General
Slaughterpriest with Bronzed Flesh

5 BWs
5 BWs
5 Skullreapers
5 Skullreapers
3 Khorgoraths

Since we only play 1250 most of the time, I'd suggest this might be pretty ok.

What would you think?

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2 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Since we only play 1250 most of the time, I'd suggest this might be pretty ok.

What would you think?

You should probably add a bloodsecrator. These guys buff mortals and demons and more attacks are always fun. Maybe go down a khorgorath and replace a unit of warriors with 10 reavers. Also consider replacing a khorgorath with flesh hounds. These guys are demons so they synergize with your BT and are affected by locus of fury and also they are really killy and they hate wizards. Cheers!

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This book is OK, it suffers from, copy paste, overcrowding and redundancy of abilities and unit types. It’s not as powerful as more recent additions for sure, I wouldn’t bank on points drops across the board, even though they may be needed.

just played the new slaanesh book, it’s VERY powerful. Played against:

keeper, with heal

2xHarp 1xmirror 1xmasque

30/20/20 daemonettes

I had reapers wrath and unfettered BT, gorepilgrims, wrathmongers, 2x5reapers

It was a quick game in which I mangeed to kill off his hero’s quickly, but in ONE battle round he amassed enough points to bring back a keeper and 30 daemonettes and have change. Weight of attacks and anything that does damage or attacks when it dies are gold. My blood warriors and skullreapers were great my BToUF was lucky not to be wiped in one round.

im sure next time I play it I will struggle

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So the daemon prince of khorne....

Is it best now to take the sword as his main weapon instead of the axe?

Hitting on 2's and -1 rend when he can potentially pile in twice seems far more useful then hitting on 3's with -2.

I feel he's either going to be chopping up hordes by tagging a corner or going after hero's with the mortal wound sword so won't need the rend anyways.

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