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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said:

So, the new boat dude can transport 30 32mm dudes 12" forward turn 1, and the dudes may still move after that.

Time for allying some wizards?

I'd say totally worth of all of our anti magic bubbles were enemy only. As is it'll be really difficult to keep the casting wizard away from the altar, bloodsecrator, skulls, and still be able to benefit a unit. Not impossible, but not easy either. 

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Just now, kozokus said:

No. Mostly because those different loadout do more or less the same thing or are at least target dependant. Contrary to 40k where some upgrades are more powerful than others.

Debatable. Yet I think people don't mind too much if list building is "boring" as long as the real game is not.

For my part, i find aos listbuilding extremely hard since you cannot grind points here and there. You have to make hard choices.

As fascinating as this discussion is, I don't think it belongs in the Khorne thread. Let's create another subject elsewhere and talks more about skulls and blood.

Most of the legacy units have multiple weapon options of which one is usually the optimum, esp when factoring in available buffs.

it is debatable. Thats my point, it’s highly subjective and so unlikely a clear consensus. T9A thrives and uses a point system, not inspite but because of it.

I find list building simple and that has its positives and negatives, I hope that in the next GHB there are some incentives for varied lists. I feel like competitive play is really sucking the flavour of the game.

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Just now, Battlefury said:

Looking to create a tournament list for the next tournament.

We have 1250 points limit, with the army plan of 1k points. It is being played on a 48" x 48" table.
The scenario is "Focal Points".

Until now, all my army compositions got battered to dust, so as today against Fyreslayers.

Would you have any ideas, where to start with?
I do own a lot of units, but really have no clue anymore, where to start building.

The standart armies, I will face are:

Stormcast Eternals with Ballista, Sequitor & Evocator combo
More Stormcasts Eternals
Fyreslayers
Leagions of N. with no ghosts
Ironjawz
 

Playing on a smaller than normal table I would go for speed, units of dogs, runs and charge bloodthirster, maybe a min gore pilgrims with large warrior unit and the goretide SH to allow max run and charge, karanak? Gives you free unit of dogs, at lower points it will really make a difference.

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5 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

The Lord on Manticore has 4 attack profiles, 2 of them are the rider's weapons. That means the Goretide Command Trait give plus +1 damage to two attack profiles. His main weapon lacks any rend, so you give him the Demsional Blade for -3 rend. Then his main weapon is 4 attacks at -3 rend 1d3+1 dmg (you can also swap it to  the 6 attacks weapon) and his Lance on the charge is 4 FLAT dmg. 

He is cheap, fast, a mortal (can be whipped), has 4 attack profiles so +1 attacks and +1 to hit are great value and when compared to a BT his best two weapons never degrade as he takes dmg. He is only usuable in Goretide and with the artefact IMO, so in that way it's restrictive.

I have high hopes that if Slaves of Darkness ever gets updated he will be even better (getting rend on his weapons).

I was thinking, since the Lord on Manticore is a mortal, he can get at least 3 extra attacks with a flail, which I think is 6 attacks already, with the Bloodsecrator/Wrathmongers/Aspiring Deathbringer?.  Then give him the Sword of Judgement, and buff his hits with a Slaughter Priest.  That's a bunch of mortal wound potential there.   For modeling, a giant sword blade on a chain should suffice and look super awesome!

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I think a Reapers BT is probably a better target for Sword, especially considering BTs get rerolls of 1 to hit. 

I like the DBlade on him because it makes him more well rounded and it relies less on getting all the buffs but I'm sure it could work.

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Something cool that hasn't yet come up but I can see it working out sometimes is that the MantiLord can pile in 6. So if he is whipped you can charge in pretty reliably then you might be able to, with your pile-in 6, fly over a chaff screen and reach something behind it. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MOMUS said:

Playing on a smaller than normal table I would go for speed, units of dogs, runs and charge bloodthirster, maybe a min gore pilgrims with large warrior unit and the goretide SH to allow max run and charge, karanak? Gives you free unit of dogs, at lower points it will really make a difference.

Goretide

Khorgos Khul as General
Karanak
Slaughterpriest
Bloodstoker

Blood Warriors 5
Blood Warriors 5
Skullreapers 5
Skullreapers 5
Chaos Marauder Horsemen

What would you think about that list?

Edited by Battlefury

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7 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Special weapons are hostages of kit, not points. The kit has 1 glaive per 10 dudes so the unit is forever doomed to have 1 glaive per 10 dudes.

What they should've done is give glaive 2 more attacks to compensate.

 

And no, the points per special weapon is not a good idea. If glaive is limited to 1 per 10 dudes anyway then what's the point of having point cost of it? It is assumed that unit cost reflects their special weapons already.

The point of it is that other units won't be getting 3 "free" special weapons any more compared to our 1. We are still limited, but they'd at least be limited by points.

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8 hours ago, Retro said:

The point of it is that Sequitors won't be getting 3 "free" special weapons any more compared to our 1.

 

We all know what unit you're referring to, don't have to hide! 😉

 

Methinks though the simplicity (relatively) of AoS points would start to get compromised with additional costs especially since AoS is limited to Multiples of 10. Would it help "balance" the game? Maybe. But then it would go down the entire rabbit hole and then soon command groups cost points, weapon choices costs points, shields costs points, artifacts, etc...and then we'd have WFB.

Which would be great cause I got plenty of square bases ready to go!

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Just an thought after two recent games, and it's a thought that I'm sure many of you will read and think "well no pooh, Sherlock."

Using Blood Tithe points on rewards instead of summoning is waaaaaaay better.

Previously I had been trying to save up points for good free summons. These last two games I spent them on the ability to pile&attack, for a completely free round of fighting with my 20 or 30 Bloodletters, even in the opponent's Hero Phase. Wow, has that ever been more effective!

Just sayin'. :)

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58 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Using Blood Tithe points on rewards instead of summoning is waaaaaaay better.

Nope.

The most efficient use of Blood Tithe depends on several factors, especially on your ability to read the board state correctly.

It is impossible to maintain an argument that one ability is better than the other (at least in this case) due to their highly situational nature.

Blood Tithe is actually one of the few khorne-specific things that can determine how proficient you are really with that army.

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15 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

So, the new boat dude can transport 30 32mm dudes 12" forward turn 1, and the dudes may still move after that.

Time for allying some wizards?

Its not as good as it looks, you need to be wholy within 3'' of the boat,   so probably max 10-20  32'' minis and you would have to leave a perfect whole on the middle of the unit to summon the spell there...

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4 hours ago, Xasz said:

Nope.

The most efficient use of Blood Tithe depends on several factors, especially on your ability to read the board state correctly.

It is impossible to maintain an argument that one ability is better than the other (at least in this case) due to their highly situational nature.

Blood Tithe is actually one of the few khorne-specific things that can determine how proficient you are really with that army.

Ok, but just based on my experience (limited so far), I've done much better with making actual tangible use of the points as needed compared to saving up for some big awesome summoning moment.

Being able to fight a free round of comat in your opponent's hero phase is a real game changer.

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New (also probably very obvious answer) question:

I had dismissed the Fury Bloodthirster as a bad choice. Then, about two hours ago, it hit me. A Murderhost unit moves up the table on a run, getting 4 inches from the enemy. So sad, can't charge because we ran.

 

But wait.

 

Combat rules say you can pick a unit to fight that either charged or is within the pile in distance. Does that actually mean that with a 6" pile in that unit can slam in? WTF? Really?

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1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

Combat rules say you can pick a unit to fight that either charged or is within the pile in distance. Does that actually mean that with a 6" pile in that unit can slam in? WTF? Really?

Yes.

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Well, that means another Bloodthirster purchase is happening in about, oh, I dunno, 5 seconds. :)

 

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20 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Looking to create a tournament list for the next tournament.

We have 1250 points limit, with the army plan of 1k points. It is being played on a 48" x 48" table.
The scenario is "Focal Points".

Until now, all my army compositions got battered to dust, so as today against Fyreslayers.

Would you have any ideas, where to start with?
I do own a lot of units, but really have no clue anymore, where to start building.

The standart armies, I will face are:

Stormcast Eternals with Ballista, Sequitor & Evocator combo
More Stormcasts Eternals
Fyreslayers
Leagions of N. with no ghosts
Ironjawz
 

Battalion are not an option at this point level I think.

The autotake things are priest with skulls and unfettered fury thirster.

Now we need 2x battleline and more hammer units and also keep the drop count low.

Personally I would take 2x dogs as battleline, their mobility is appreciated for Focal points and they can skip taking bloodsecrator.

As hammers you can have 2x insensate rage and a CP or 1x insensate rage and 10x skullreapers,  latter will require downgrading one dog unit to reaver unit, but is less susceptible to shooting.

Host is Reapers of vengeance to make the most  of thirsters. There isn't a host to help mortal hammer units as much anyway.

Priest prayer will have to be +hit for insensate rage dudes or +blood tithe for cp generation.

If that doesn't work then nothing works. I don't think mortal builds are good at this level since you can't build a big enough slaughterborn for 1250.

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1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

New (also probably very obvious answer) question:

I had dismissed the Fury Bloodthirster as a bad choice. Then, about two hours ago, it hit me. A Murderhost unit moves up the table on a run, getting 4 inches from the enemy. So sad, can't charge because we ran.

 

But wait.

 

Combat rules say you can pick a unit to fight that either charged or is within the pile in distance. Does that actually mean that with a 6" pile in that unit can slam in? WTF? Really?

Yeah, it's basically army-wide run+charge 6, retreat+charge and strike first CP ability during your turn.

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Posted (edited)

Just a quick question for you folks, goliath gangers converted into skullreapers and/or wrathmongers? Probably a head swap and weapon swaps, but they are the right muscularity. A bit short though, so I was thinking of slapping them on some skulls or something to bring them up to proper height. Thoughts?

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Using Blood Tithe points on rewards instead of summoning is waaaaaaay better.

Often, but not always. I usually find that I use the abilities before I get to the good summons unless I build for farming tithes(even then I don't always get to them before something else gets very helpful). The ability to move or attack in the enemy's hero phase makes us one of the more resilient armies in the game against double turns if we've got the tithes to respond to it.  As well as those combat order shenanigans some armies do. If we could summon in the enemy's turn then I'd  be more interested in summoning. Alas, most of the time when I get to summon stuff the game is already decided and the daemons would just be a formality.

6 hours ago, Xasz said:

Blood Tithe is actually one of the few khorne-specific things that can determine how proficient you are really with that army.

Definitely. Reading the blood  flow  is a skill that can boost your Khorne game massively. (excuse the pun)

How does everyone else do their summoning? Are you fans of using the smaller units, or do you wait for the bigger blobs? Do you summon at all? How do you use your blood tithes?

Edited by TheArborealWalrus

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2 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Battalion are not an option at this point level I think.

The autotake things are priest with skulls and unfettered fury thirster.

Now we need 2x battleline and more hammer units and also keep the drop count low.

Personally I would take 2x dogs as battleline, their mobility is appreciated for Focal points and they can skip taking bloodsecrator.

As hammers you can have 2x insensate rage and a CP or 1x insensate rage and 10x skullreapers,  latter will require downgrading one dog unit to reaver unit, but is less susceptible to shooting.

Host is Reapers of vengeance to make the most  of thirsters. There isn't a host to help mortal hammer units as much anyway.

Priest prayer will have to be +hit for insensate rage dudes or +blood tithe for cp generation.

If that doesn't work then nothing works. I don't think mortal builds are good at this level since you can't build a big enough slaughterborn for 1250.

Thank you for your suggestions!

I had some games today and treid out a list, that I concidered to be maneuverable and good in damage output:

Goretide

Khorgos Khul as General
Karanak
Slaughterpriest
Bloodstoker

Blood Warriors 5
Blood Warriors 5
Skullreapers 5
Skullreapers 5
Chaos Marauder Horsemen


I faced Fyreslayers.
I would like to summarise the battle, because it was only until turn 3.

I started and moved my units a little to the middle, my horsemen covered the right flank. I moved that way, that the dwarves would not be able to charge my...but wrong. The Slayers got buffed. They now moved 6", and all of them ( bubble effect within 18" of that one character ) where able to run and charge. It modified the move itself, the run & the charge, so they basically moved up around 20" in total.

My army was caught into combat at all the 3 different positions they have been at that point.
In that turn all my horsemen where destroyed. 5 Blood Warriors went to pieces. 5 Skullreapers where grinded to dust.
That Magmadroth he had is very very nasty. And those 2 handed axe dwarves, with 2 damage, are not funny either.

So I dished out some wounds on his Magmadroth, due to the Skull Reapers. But tbh it was really just 2, due to the 5+ and then D3 randomness.
In turn 2 he went first, killed that other group of Blood Warriors. Until then, they only had 1 save roll of 6. And due to that save after save mechanic the dwarves did ignore a lot of them at this front.
So those 5 where done.
Khorgos Khul snapped that Magmadroh with his axe. In my turn, there wasn't really much to do anymore. I buffed the other Skull Reapers and went in. But due to the absolute lack of rend, the dwarves ignored a lot of the damage, that could have been output there. Their save after save didn't make it any better for me.

So in the 1st part of turn 3, he just wiped out the rest of my army. I managed to kill the Magmadroth, and about 10 of those 2 handed dwarves.

The Blood Boil ability didn't want to do anything this game.

My mate apologized after the game, because he felt very bad, that he battered me like this.

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We can't win against Fyredudes and DoK head-on. We have comparable offensive power, but they are much better defensively, as soon as they get to fight they blow us out. We have to outcombat them with chain pile ins and long pile ins that only demons provide.

Also don't forget for skullreapers you can reroll successfull hits to fish for 6s, that almost doubles their mw output against those enemies with good saves.

I think priest may be better used to pull units outside of their wholly within buff bubbles rather than trying to shoot things with blood boil.

Fyredudes have a bit of a weakness that they have that one big burst of speed in the beginning, but later when they disperse to objectives they are left with move 4" so it's hard for them to relocate. Maybe summoning small demon units to screen against their big blob of berserkers while you score is another way to win without beating them in combat.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

We can't win against Fyredudes and DoK head-on. We have comparable offensive power, but they are much better defensively, as soon as they get to fight they blow us out. We have to outcombat them with chain pile ins and long pile ins that only demons provide.

Also don't forget for skullreapers you can reroll successfull hits to fish for 6s, that almost doubles their mw output against those enemies with good saves.

I think priest may be better used to pull units outside of their wholly within buff bubbles rather than trying to shoot things with blood boil.

Fyredudes have a bit of a weakness that they have that one big burst of speed in the beginning, but later when they disperse to objectives they are left with move 4" so it's hard for them to relocate. Maybe summoning small demon units to screen against their big blob of berserkers while you score is another way to win without beating them in combat.

summoning units are more than 9" of the ennemy and wholly within 12 of your character. They won't screen anything, actually, and after the second turn, in practice, you can more often than not only summon them behind your own tropps. they could actually help your opponent to come faster to you with a move+easy charge if you managed by miracle tu summon them between your ennemy and your troops. It's a waste of points in 95% of the time

Best way to screen blobs of berzerkers are khorne judgment. Fyreslayers have 0 way to cross them, they have a VERY big base, and they can't kill the spells.

Edited by ledha

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5 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Just a quick question for you folks, goliath gangers converted into skullreapers and/or wrathmongers? Probably a head swap and weapon swaps, but they are the right muscularity. A bit short though, so I was thinking of slapping them on some skulls or something to bring them up to proper height. Thoughts?

They are far too 40k in design.  They have spinal attachments and vials sculpted into their backs and the boots they wear and trousers are also very sci-fi in design. 

You'd be better off using bloodreaver heavily converted in all honesty.

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3 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

We can't win against Fyredudes and DoK head-on. We have comparable offensive power, but they are much better defensively, as soon as they get to fight they blow us out. We have to outcombat them with chain pile ins and long pile ins that only demons provide.

Also don't forget for skullreapers you can reroll successfull hits to fish for 6s, that almost doubles their mw output against those enemies with good saves.

I think priest may be better used to pull units outside of their wholly within buff bubbles rather than trying to shoot things with blood boil.

Fyredudes have a bit of a weakness that they have that one big burst of speed in the beginning, but later when they disperse to objectives they are left with move 4" so it's hard for them to relocate. Maybe summoning small demon units to screen against their big blob of berserkers while you score is another way to win without beating them in combat.

Yeah unfornuately not many things in the game, including our units, can effective kill Hearthguard Bezerkers, unless you can kill their heroes. I think Fyreslayers is going to be an uphill battle. But we do have some faster units and can compete for objectives. You might need to try and plan some double pile ins and things like that to cripple those tanky units, but it won't be easy.

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Can someone please clarify what allows us to use Bloodtithe in our opponents hero phase (other than the unbind spell ability)? 

I know it says "in THE hero phase" however it came up in a game recently where my opponent did not accept that meant I could use it in either hero phase and not just my own.

We checked the FAQ's but couldn't see anything there.

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