AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Smooth criminal]

4 minutes ago, n1ceguypaul said:

So I need a little help guys. I haven't had much time lately to dive into the book all I know is that wrathmonger and skull cannons looked like a cool idea so I went and purchased a second skull cannon on the day of the faq.

So basically is there any way for me to have any of the fun that I would have had with the wrathmonger or am I sitting on 2 skull cannons now that are pretty pointless.

Cheers guys hope it's good news.

The mongers+cannons combo only starts working well after you max out the cannon unit. Getting 2 cannons is better than pre-nerf 1 cannon+mongers and 3 cannons are probably better than pre-nerf 2 cannons+mongers.

Obviously mongers also made other shooting like WoK better, but that has nothing to do with cannons, only relevant to mongers' viability.

[n1ceguypaul]

Just now, Smooth criminal said:

The mongers+cannons combo only starts working well after you max out the cannon unit. Getting 2 cannons is better than pre-nerf 1 cannon+mongers and 3 cannons are probably better than pre-nerf 2 cannons+mongers.

Obviously mongers also made other shooting like WoK better, but that has nothing to do with cannons, only relevant to mongers' viability.

So is it viable to run the cannons as they are with out the buffs or is the something else I can do to make them that bit better.

cheers

[Grimrock]

12 minutes ago, n1ceguypaul said:

So is it viable to run the cannons as they are with out the buffs or is the something else I can do to make them that bit better.

cheers

You can still run them, they won't be as good as before but they're our only real long ranged option so there's still a purpose. For best results give them killing frenzy from a priest for +1 to hit and keep a daemon hero nearby for the locus. Maybe the host that allows rerolls of 1 to wound against hero's and monsters. If you get lucky you can use a pair to snipe out a buffing hero or wizard.

[jazman84]

2 hours ago, Judicator said:

Can i get your guys feed back on this list?  Ive played 3 games with it, beating gut busters and Lon then getting smashed by sylvaneth.

1950 points, 3 drops, 2 battalions, starting command points on turn 1 is 4

 

This looks really cool.

I love the flying Bloodsecrator!

You've found a great way to cover one of the weaknesses of Tyrants which is the amount of drops with that Battalion.

I wanted to try a similar Tyrants list but with 3x5 Flesh Hounds as battleline with a unit of Reavers to Sacrifice , Karanak, Spriest, Scrator and some Judgements. However I was looking at 8 drops!

Edited April 18, 2019 by jazman84

[Darksteve]

42 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

The mongers+cannons combo only starts working well after you max out the cannon unit. Getting 2 cannons is better than pre-nerf 1 cannon+mongers and 3 cannons are probably better than pre-nerf 2 cannons+mongers.

Obviously mongers also made other shooting like WoK better, but that has nothing to do with cannons, only relevant to mongers' viability.

So I'm not sure why you think these things, but pre-nerf 1 cannon + wrathmongers had the same number of shots as two cannons, only one less melee attack with a hellblade and the mongers could easily buff nearby units.

3 cannons is likewise not better than pre-nerf two cannon mongers. 

@n1ceguypaul

As for skullcannon viability now. They average 2.2 damage per shot with locus and killing frenzy which isnt great for 140 points. They fufill a role just are disappointing for thier cost.

I am in a similar boat having bought 2 cannons before the faq and have since shelved them for now

Edited April 18, 2019 by Darksteve

[Kaz]

Hey lads, haven’t been around for a while, studies and exams are a pain in the butt. 

Overall, I’m gonna say I prefer Goretide to skullfiend tribe, and Korghos Khul is a surprisingly strong character. I really like the guy. 

But for unnamed characters, what do you guys like more? Juggerlord or a Mighty Lord? 

[Kaz]

45 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

So I'm not sure why you think these things, but pre-nerf 1 cannon + wrathmongers had the same number of shots as two cannons, only one less melee attack with a hellblade and the mongers could easily buff nearby units.

3 cannons is likewise not better than pre-nerf two cannon mongers. 

@n1ceguypaul

As for skullcannon viability now. They average 2.2 damage per shot with locus and killing frenzy which isnt great for 140 points. They fufill a role just are disappointing for thier cost.

I am in a similar boat having bought 2 cannons before the faq and have since shelved them for now

Hm, maybe try using them like beefier Skullcrushers with Guns? 

Right now, one nice thing is that mongers buff the Bloodletters AND the maw, and if any of those things kill, you get an extra free shot. 

I’ve noticed that they can be disturbingly good in close combat, keep at least 1 Daemon Hero close for the locus. Give them any attack buffs and use them to attack flanks of enemy blobs. 

I’m using them kinda like Astra Militarum rough riders, but this time hellish motorcycles with a hellcannon and a HUEG jaw

Its surprisingly useful so far. The gun can be disappointing, but not if you’re shooting twice in a turn! And they have speed and durability equal to 2 Bloodcrushers, while being more damaging in smaller numbers

[Kaz]

1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said:

Can't really disagree on anything here.

I think that:

1. Warriors in 10 man units are definitely correct precisely because of the fact that you want screen to be as long as possible.

2. Skullreaper unit size mostly depends on 5 being enough or not and it probably is enough. 10 do seem like overkill for anything that's not a maxed out blob itself, 2x10 definitely is an overkill. Probably makes sense to have 1 big unit and 1 small so you have different tools.

SCE often use 10 evocators, but evocators have it way easier because of how their ability does not care about positioning. Skullreapers and crushers suffer greatly in this regard.

Are wrathmongers worth it so far? Is aspiring worth it? It feels like in mortal army where nobody rerolls charges for free unlike demons he may be too CP hungry.

I think Blood warriors are best in multiples of 10. If you want MSU, 10. If you want big block, 20 is imo best as 30 is too unwieldy. 

As far as Skullreapers are concerned, I personally feel that  2 5 man units are best, more than 10 reapers in a  list is a little overkill. I prefer separate units because some of my regular opponents bring a LOT of debuffs , this forces them to spread it out 

i think Wrathmongers are still solid as an alternative hammer to reapers by simple virtue of having rend, making them very reliable with a bit of buffs. They just need a screen to deliver them safely (Warrior+monger combo is awesome)

aspiring Deathbringer is IMO really solid. Cheap, useful command, especially in a Bloodmad warband. Don’t give him artifacts or make him general, just abuse the heck out of his aura, it’s actually very useful. 

[Ravinsild]

15 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Hey lads, haven’t been around for a while, studies and exams are a pain in the butt. 

Overall, I’m gonna say I prefer Goretide to skullfiend tribe, and Korghos Khul is a surprisingly strong character. I really like the guy. 

But for unnamed characters, what do you guys like more? Juggerlord or a Mighty Lord? 

I like the model of the Lord of Khorne in Juggernaut more but barely and I like the rules of the Mighty Lord of Khorne more because re-rolling Charge is clutch and reality splitting axe is just plain old fun. I’ve never seen it happen but I pray for the day. 

Also not going to lie I have 2 Start Collecting! Khorne Daemon boxes but I straight up don’t know whether to build skullcannons or Heralds on Bloodthrones. 

Both seem terrible in both 40k and AoS 😫

Edited April 18, 2019 by Ravinsild

[Gash Bauer]

14 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Hey lads, haven’t been around for a while, studies and exams are a pain in the butt. 

Overall, I’m gonna say I prefer Goretide to skullfiend tribe, and Korghos Khul is a surprisingly strong character. I really like the guy. 

But for unnamed characters, what do you guys like more? Juggerlord or a Mighty Lord? 

From a painting standpoint I had initially felt I pigeonholed myself into the Goretide, but I played my first game of the new book and I genuinely feel their buffs are a bit stronger on a general game to game basis.  I also talked with my opponent afterwards and we both agreed that in our more relaxed meta Khul is an absolute powerhouse.  He really highlighted how he felt hamstrung into making "rock and a hard place" decisions simply due to his 8 inch pile in.  My next test list doesn't include him and that will really determine if I consider him an auto-include from now on.

[Darksteve]

24 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Hey lads, haven’t been around for a while, studies and exams are a pain in the butt. 

Overall, I’m gonna say I prefer Goretide to skullfiend tribe, and Korghos Khul is a surprisingly strong character. I really like the guy. 

But for unnamed characters, what do you guys like more? Juggerlord or a Mighty Lord? 

Mighty Lord is silly fun. I usually send him off like a bullet against big stuff.  Once I reality split my opponent just once he becomes a very effective zoning piece against big monsters.  He's split a great unclean one, 3 of the daughters of khaine shrines and some others. Always feels silly fun to do.

20 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Hm, maybe try using them like beefier Skullcrushers with Guns? 

Right now, one nice thing is that mongers buff the Bloodletters AND the maw, and if any of those things kill, you get an extra free shot. 

I’ve noticed that they can be disturbingly good in close combat, keep at least 1 Daemon Hero close for the locus. Give them any attack buffs and use them to attack flanks of enemy blobs. 

I’m using them kinda like Astra Militarum rough riders, but this time hellish motorcycles with a hellcannon and a HUEG jaw

Its surprisingly useful so far. The gun can be disappointing, but not if you’re shooting twice in a turn! And they have speed and durability equal to 2 Bloodcrushers, while being more damaging in smaller numbers

The issue I have with them atm is the cost. If they come down a bit ill look at them again. For now im experimenting with Brass Despoilers

[Ravinsild]

Would it be useful if we talked about what we see as the roles for our units? 

What is our tank unit, your chaff killers, the chaff, the hero killers and objective takers, support, and all these hammers, anvils, and so forth? I have some ideas, would you like me to list them? Do you think a unit can serve 2 roles at once? Would that help with army list building? Is there a certain recipe for having a certain amount of roles in any army? 

Like in MTG you want about 20% land in your deck, so you want 20% chaff, 20% anvil, 20% support, etc? Is it okay to have nothing of a particular role? 

What do you think makes a Khorne list strong? Good internal synergy with buffs? Strong hammers? Strong anvils? How much chaff is desired, or do we need it? 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Ravinsild

[Warbossironteef]

It's hard to really get a lot out of talking about things in a vacuum. Units are so list dependent and also different based on your matchup. I think you could talk about different ways to use units and what their strengths and weaknesses are but that's pretty much what's been happening already.  

I think the most value comes from sharing actual table experience and thinking of ways to maximize your units in different scenarios. 

[KhorneySteve]

7 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Would it be useful if we talked about what we see as the roles for our units? 

What is our tank unit, your chaff killers, the chaff, the hero killers and objective takers, support, and all these hammers, anvils, and so forth? I have some ideas, would you like me to list them? Do you think a unit can serve 2 roles at once? Would that help with army list building? Is there a certain recipe for having a certain amount of roles in any army? 

Like in MTG you want about 20% land in your deck, so you want 20% chaff, 20% anvil, 20% support, etc? Is it okay to have nothing of a particular role? 

What do you think makes a Khorne list strong? Good internal synergy with buffs? Strong hammers? Strong anvils? How much chaff is desired, or do we need it? 

So for me as a relatively new Khorne player I always take a unit of 30 Bloodletters as my main battleline and either WoK Bloodthirster or Insensate Rage BT, depending on what size game is being played. I try and also take Skulltaker or Bloodmaster and put them with the Bloodletters for that locus of fury ability. Blood Warriors are quite tanky but I'm slowly phasing them out and replacing them with Bloodletters or Flesh Hounds as I've had more success with them than Blood Warriors. Slaughter priests with the altar are also really good at 100 points but only as support, mine have done next to nothing in combat. 

[Ravinsild]

23 minutes ago, KhorneySteve said:

So for me as a relatively new Khorne player I always take a unit of 30 Bloodletters as my main battleline and either WoK Bloodthirster or Insensate Rage BT, depending on what size game is being played. I try and also take Skulltaker or Bloodmaster and put them with the Bloodletters for that locus of fury ability. Blood Warriors are quite tanky but I'm slowly phasing them out and replacing them with Bloodletters or Flesh Hounds as I've had more success with them than Blood Warriors. Slaughter priests with the altar are also really good at 100 points but only as support, mine have done next to nothing in combat. 

Yeah, I myself just got some Bloodletters and I am excited to try them out! I also need a Skullmaster and Bloodmaster in my life, but I'll have to wait for a bit. 

I have yet to use Flesh Hounds but I want to give them a go. For the most part I have real life experience with Mortals. 

I hope to get at least 1 2k point game in this weekend so I post up my results and thoughts. I'll try to take pictures at the end of every single battle round, and stuff too. 

[Warbossironteef]

53 minutes ago, KhorneySteve said:

So for me as a relatively new Khorne player I always take a unit of 30 Bloodletters as my main battleline and either WoK Bloodthirster or Insensate Rage BT, depending on what size game is being played. I try and also take Skulltaker or Bloodmaster and put them with the Bloodletters for that locus of fury ability. Blood Warriors are quite tanky but I'm slowly phasing them out and replacing them with Bloodletters or Flesh Hounds as I've had more success with them than Blood Warriors. Slaughter priests with the altar are also really good at 100 points but only as support, mine have done next to nothing in combat. 

I've heard other people talk about 30 bloodletters being harder to use in the new book, i think due to the size of th unit and the wholely within rules. If I were you i'd bust out my models on a table and do some trial movements and see how hard it is and how restrictive it is to your list. 

[KhorneySteve]

12 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I've heard other people talk about 30 bloodletters being harder to use in the new book, i think due to the size of th unit and the wholely within rules. If I were you i'd bust out my models on a table and do some trial movements and see how hard it is and how restrictive it is to your list. 

I don't really run Bloodsecrator or Wrathmongers that much any more, but when I have done it hasn't been so hard to get the Bloodletters wholly within. Generally speaking though I don't think a unit of 30 needs the extra attack, especially with the re roll ones to hit and a hit roll of 6 being a mw plus normal damage is really good imo. Same goes for the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage, I've found the +1 rend artefact on him to be really useful (gives him - 3 rend) 

It's also worth keeping an eye on Blood tithe points as some of the abilities on the table are nasty in the right situation, in my game today I used murderlust in my opponents hero phase which enabled my Insensate Rage to hit his Maw Krusha again and kill it before it had a chance to hit me again. I'm only pointing this out as I generally save up blood tithe to summon Daemons. 

All in all I'm moving to a virtually all Daemons list, my 1k List is going to be Skulltaker, Insensate Rage Bloodthirster and 2x30 Bloodletters, 2k I run Tyrants with WoK, Insensate and Skarbrand. 

[AresX8]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

Would it be useful if we talked about what we see as the roles for our units? 

What is our tank unit, your chaff killers, the chaff, the hero killers and objective takers, support, and all these hammers, anvils, and so forth? I have some ideas, would you like me to list them? Do you think a unit can serve 2 roles at once? Would that help with army list building? Is there a certain recipe for having a certain amount of roles in any army? 

Like in MTG you want about 20% land in your deck, so you want 20% chaff, 20% anvil, 20% support, etc? Is it okay to have nothing of a particular role? 

What do you think makes a Khorne list strong? Good internal synergy with buffs? Strong hammers? Strong anvils? How much chaff is desired, or do we need it? 

Threat saturation and throwing tons of dice is what makes Khorne strong. Everything we have can fight, including our support heroes. Yes, a Slaughterpriest with the Bloodbathed Axe might not be AS fighty as say a buffed up Mighty Lord, but when you have the same Slaughterpriest attack 5 times, different story! 

I wouldn't think there's a specific formula that be used as a general guideline since each Slaughterhost builds differently, and then each battalion in each Slaughterhost would build differently.

As for unit roles, this is what I see:

• Bloodreavers
  • Chaff killers.
  • First wave in a Goretide list.
  • Screening unit for Slaughterpriests/Bloodsecrator.
  • Blood Sacrifice unit.
  • Glass cannon role.
• Blood Warriors
  • Good against everything
    • When buffed accordingly, can throw out an absurd amount of attacks
    • Weakest against units that can re-roll armor saves (*stares at Sequitors*), as that negates the power of throwing out a lot of wounds.
    • Gorefists are best against fighting units with 4+ or better armor.
    • Dual Goreaxes are best against fighting chaff units, or units with lots of wounds but low armor (like FEC Flayers).
  • Great unit to shift someone off an objective.
  • Hammer/Anvil unit role depending on the matchup.
• Skullreapers
  • Good against everything
    • Best against units that Blood Warriors are weak against
    • Can also handle hordes, again, through sheer volume of attacks
  • Superb second wave unit, also great unit to shift someone off an objective.
  • Don't need buffs as much as Bloodreavers/Blood Warriors but get exponentially scarier the more buffs they get.
  • Essentially Mortal equivalent to Bloodletters, but are not battleline.
• Wrathmongers
  • Good against everything
    • Best against high armor units with the -1 Rend and again, sheer volume of attacks
  • Third wave unit since you want to extend the attack buff duration as long as possible.
  • Great unit to shift someone off an objective.
  • Buffwise, only really want Killing Frenzy, as 2's to hit with that many attacks is incredibly scary.
• Mighty Skullcrushers
  • Interesting hybrid between hammer and anvil unit.
  • Hammer on the charge with unit of 6+ models due to the d3 mortals on 2+ after charge move.
  • 5 wounds with 3+ save is what makes them an anvil.
    • Bronzed Flesh just makes them a stupid anvil.
  • Throw out a lot of attacks per model, especially when buffed.
    • Ensorcelled Axes are best against low armor units.
    • Bloodglaives best against all other targets due to the Rend, but will badly need Killing Frenzy.
  • Best used as a second wave unit to ensure the charge.
• Flesh Hounds
  • Chaff killers.
  • Can also grab early objectives.
  • Good screening unit for Daemon heavy lists.
  • Great Blood Tithe unit that you'll also get work out of.
  • Don't need many buffs with their high base amount of attacks.
  • Excellent summoning unit for 3 Blood Tithe.
  • Get a lot out of Leave None Alive Reapers of Vengeance command ability.
• Bloodletters
  • Glass cannon unit for Daemons.
  • Really need extra attack buffs.
  • Excellent against everything but best against units with 4+ armor or that can re-roll armor saves.
    • Shine a lot when under Lord of the Blood Hunt from the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster command ability to fish for 6's to hit.
  • Amazing under Leave None Alive Reapers of Vengeance command ability.
  • Best when in units of 20+ to get the native +1  to hit from Murderous Tide.
    • Take both banners when in this size!
• Bloodcrushers
  • Lean more towards hammer unit compared to Skullcrushers.
    • Also cheaper than Skullcrushers.
  • Also need extra attacks to get the most out of the Hellblades. 
    • Also want Killing Frenzy.
  • Probably best in Bloodlords as the command ability there will keep them around a bit longer.

[Ravinsild]

11 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

Threat saturation and throwing tons of dice is what makes Khorne strong. Everything we have can fight, including our support heroes. Yes, a Slaughterpriest with the Bloodbathed Axe might not be AS fighty as say a buffed up Mighty Lord, but when you have the same Slaughterpriest attack 5 times, different story! 

I wouldn't think there's a specific formula that be used as a general guideline since each Slaughterhost builds differently, and then each battalion in each Slaughterhost would build differently.

As for unit roles, this is what I see:

• Bloodreavers
  • Chaff killers.
  • First wave in a Goretide list.
  • Screening unit for Slaughterpriests/Bloodsecrator.
  • Blood Sacrifice unit.
  • Glass cannon role.
• Blood Warriors
  • Good against everything
    • When buffed accordingly, can throw out an absurd amount of attacks
    • Weakest against units that can re-roll armor saves (*stares at Sequitors*), as that negates the power of throwing out a lot of wounds.
    • Gorefists are best against fighting units with 4+ or better armor.
    • Dual Goreaxes are best against fighting chaff units, or units with lots of wounds but low armor (like FEC Flayers).
  • Great unit to shift someone off an objective.
  • Hammer/Anvil unit role depending on the matchup.
• Skullreapers
  • Good against everything
    • Best against units that Blood Warriors are weak against
    • Can also handle hordes, again, through sheer volume of attacks
  • Superb second wave unit, also great unit to shift someone off an objective.
  • Don't need buffs as much as Bloodreavers/Blood Warriors but get exponentially scarier the more buffs they get.
  • Essentially Mortal equivalent to Bloodletters, but are not battleline.
• Wrathmongers
  • Good against everything
    • Best against high armor units with the -1 Rend and again, sheer volume of attacks
  • Third wave unit since you want to extend the attack buff duration as long as possible.
  • Great unit to shift someone off an objective.
  • Buffwise, only really want Killing Frenzy, as 2's to hit with that many attacks is incredibly scary.
• Mighty Skullcrushers
  • Interesting hybrid between hammer and anvil unit.
  • Hammer on the charge with unit of 6+ models due to the d3 mortals on 2+ after charge move.
  • 5 wounds with 3+ save is what makes them an anvil.
    • Bronzed Flesh just makes them a stupid anvil.
  • Throw out a lot of attacks per model, especially when buffed.
    • Ensorcelled Axes are best against low armor units.
    • Bloodglaives best against all other targets due to the Rend, but will badly need Killing Frenzy.
  • Best used as a second wave unit to ensure the charge.
• Flesh Hounds
  • Chaff killers.
  • Can also grab early objectives.
  • Good screening unit for Daemon heavy lists.
  • Great Blood Tithe unit that you'll also get work out of.
  • Don't need many buffs with their high base amount of attacks.
  • Excellent summoning unit for 3 Blood Tithe.
  • Get a lot out of Leave None Alive Reapers of Vengeance command ability.
• Bloodletters
  • Glass cannon unit for Daemons.
  • Really need extra attack buffs.
  • Excellent against everything but best against units with 4+ armor or that can re-roll armor saves.
    • Shine a lot when under Lord of the Blood Hunt from the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster command ability to fish for 6's to hit.
  • Amazing under Leave None Alive Reapers of Vengeance command ability.
  • Best when in units of 20+ to get the native +1  to hit from Murderous Tide.
    • Take both banners when in this size!
• Bloodcrushers
  • Lean more towards hammer unit compared to Skullcrushers.
    • Also cheaper than Skullcrushers.
  • Also need extra attacks to get the most out of the Hellblades. 
    • Also want Killing Frenzy.
  • Probably best in Bloodlords as the command ability there will keep them around a bit longer.

This was a really sweet breakdown that's shone a lot of light on how certain units could be utilized in certain situations. Thanks a lot for the write up! 

[Sleboda]

14 hours ago, Battlefury said:

"A Daemon Prince that can fly has a Move of 12" instead of 8". "

I would just assume that

A) it flies
B) in addition to flying, he has a 12" move

So flying rules apply, and his movement speed is better.

Yes, many people are making that assumption, but it's still an assumption and not what the rules say at present.

Take, for example, this as a comparison:

Same heading of "Fly" and then a description of what that rule grants the model (and why, as it turns out).

Edited April 18, 2019 by Sleboda

[Sleboda]

3 hours ago, KhorneySteve said:

So for me as a relatively new Khorne player I always take a unit of 30 Bloodletters as my main battleline and either WoK Bloodthirster or Insensate Rage BT, depending on what size game is being played. I try and also take Skulltaker or Bloodmaster and put them with the Bloodletters for that locus of fury ability. Blood Warriors are quite tanky but I'm slowly phasing them out and replacing them with Bloodletters or Flesh Hounds as I've had more success with them than Blood Warriors. Slaughter priests with the altar are also really good at 100 points but only as support, mine have done next to nothing in combat. 

I'm in pretty much your exact boat, though I've not used Skulltaker yet and I'm likely splitting up my bloodletter unit into 3 x 10 or 1 x 20 + 1 x 10.

I'll be interested in reading how things go for you as you play more.

[KhorneySteve]

10 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I'm in pretty much your exact boat, though I've not used Skulltaker yet and I'm likely splitting up my bloodletter unit into 3 x 10 or 1 x 20 + 1 x 10.

I'll be interested in reading how things go for you as you play more.

How come you're looking at splitting them up? For me they work best at 30 strong as your enemy has to kill 11 or more for you to lose the +1 to hit bonus. I've been playing since February so about 2 months now and probably played 20 or so games. It really does depend on what you're up against but my Bloodletters have improved significantly with the new book and have become my most reliable battleline unit. Hence why I'm now looking at buying another 20 of them so I can have two units of 30. I've managed to buff them effectively with Wrathmongers in the 2 games I ran them and they have a smaller bubble than the Bloodsecrator so can't see it being too much of an issue. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by KhorneySteve

[Sleboda]

Well, first off, I don't use Wrathmongers.

Second, our group really enjoys games with a good amount of terrain (looks so much better than 2 woods, 2 hills, 1 building that so many people seem to go with), and that makes it very hard to move them coherently. 

Third, in my games so far they are getting annihilated (meaning, dropped to under 20 and often down to 10 or fewer) before they contribute anything.

Lastly, due to Blood Tithe, I'm starting to think small, disposable units are the way to go. Treat them like one-shot missiles that then die and give my bloodthirsters or skull crushers a bonus.

[fwlr]

In a tyrants of blood list with skarbrand WoK  IR and 2 priests, what's the best battleline? I've asked this many times by now but not had an answer. Flesh hounds, to me, seem like a clear unit to take as 2x5 doggos to hold flanks, take objectives and die for blood tithe. Then there's decent amount of points left to take a big blob, and warthnongers or a bloodsecrator.

Options being:

40 bloodreavers with wrath axe and secrator. Unwieldy, hard to keep wholly within, needs immunity to battleshock, but is s massive body block of models. And cheaper than other options so wrath axe has space. Units could be split down, but then min/max discount isn't got so only 30 guys. However smaller units, while die quicker, are more flexible and give more tithe points (but also ramp up drops pretty quick?

Drop the flesh hounds to reavers, take 20 bloodwarriors with a secrator or wrathmongers (wrathmongers gives another unit to hold objectives and have some good combat, although quite flimsy-not as much as secrator however- but fundamentally less range buff. Could work positioned behind the rows, but easier to use s secrator)  Gives two goreglaives in the unit for some decent killing power, as well as a brick of guys that kill when they die. More the merrier, but this means no1 no dogs, just crappy reavers, no2 no judgements, no3 the WoK needs to drop to an unfettered which is suboptimal as skarbrand needs to reroll hits.

Same as above, but keep dogs and wrath of khorne and drop the warriors to 15. Same philosophy, 5 less of them- easier to get in range of buffs, wrathmongers here probs v good, only 1 goreglaive. Probably better than 20 for the rest of the list (doggos>reavers by a long shot).

30 bloodletters with same as above. 300 points, same as 15 warriors, more unwieldy unit for buffs and terrain, far less staying power, do less upon death, but more killy(with buffs) and are affected by Daemon buffs (leave none alive, rr1s to hit, etc)

 

If anyone wants to give an idea of some other battleline for these kinds of lists, let's discuss.

Atm the 15 warriors are screaming ant me as the best option. My opinion will probably change when I actually assemble a list and get playing though.

Thoughts?

Edited April 19, 2019 by fwlr

[Keith]

I can confirm my Skull cannons now suck 😞

But I was unlucky.

I shot 3 of them on turn one at a unit of 10 blood sisters and only did one wound , boo hoo, I shouldn’t have taken first turn , it cost me later.

I tried a list with three cannons, two Bloodthirsters and a heap of Flesh Hounds in a blood host battalion.

It was good fun to use , but I think the 420 points I spent on the cannons will go on a third thirster and Tyrants rather than the Blood host battalion , which didn’t really do much for me.

 

The good thing is , I’ve been playing mainly Demon lists , so I can go back to the mortals and see how they go as well. But I might try out my Tyrants of blood list next.

 

https://youtu.be/BWMZ3tG4D40