AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[AresX8]

This is my current test build for Reapers of Vengeance (NOTE: I've only played this once):

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Skulltaker (120)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
20 x Bloodletters (220)
20 x Bloodletters (220)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
1 x Karanak (140)

Battalions
Murderhost (160)

Endless Spells
Wrath-Axe (60)
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

I've put the Skullshard Mantle for exactly the reason you just mentioned @Sleboda, he'll most likely be sniped via spells. The Mantle just goes "Nope!"... although that does pose a question, what does "effects of a spell" exactly entail? Something to email in me thinks.

The Crimson Crown is on the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster specifically because there's 2 units of Bloodletters who want to fight twice and fish for 6's, so that's pretty command point heavy. Karanak was added since he's free floating points and another hero to use Leave None Alive from, I've found that you need more than 2 Heroes to reliably use Leave None Alive.

[Smooth criminal]

I have to disagree on Khorne bad melee.

Mortals have full no CP wound reroll and reroll 1s to hit from stuff. Exactly like DoK.

Demons have double fight like FEC, also full hit reroll for CP and reroll 1s to wound.

Both have mws on 6s which is a usual staple in aos 2.0. Both have designated mw vomit units (crushers) as an analogue to boingrots, evocators, etc.

Our melee passes the meta gearcheck.

The problem is low mobility and not just any mobility, because later in the game you can double move for blood points, but the first turn mobility and zero ranged counters. Competitive meta is very hostile to Khorne. If meta was bricks of melee skeletons and witches with mostly magic as ranged threats then Khorne would be in a much better place.

The only area where Khorne excels is being anti-magic, but that isn't very relevant.

[fwlr]

That looks good mate.

Can add the icon for pretty much no extra as you aren't getting an additional CP with 40 points left.

Or, you could drop the skulls and bump one squad of letters to 30 to do some serious damage.

[Battlefury]

57 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Ok, so, positive take then! If you were a a Khorne demon player, using all the current rules, what would you do to give yourself a shot at competing in a tournament?

Actually, @everyone, let's put our heads together. If you could only take demons, what would you take and how would you play in a generic game (so, holding objectives in some way being more important that simply killing the enemy army)?

The only way to win via objectives is huge mass ob bodies. So we gotta use, what is the cheapest and rush for objectives. Staying there by bodies means to position in a way, that not the entire group can be wiped easily.

We should go for the minimum number of models per unit and really run with all the groups to objectives. I forces the enemy to split their As to those groups. So they might stay there longer.
But honestly, for only demon units I don't see it working a lot of times.

But we gonna stay positive, so i can't just say, what would be on point. So I am gonna say:

Try it out, you will for sure have success with spamming the cheapest units... .

[AresX8]

8 minutes ago, fwlr said:

That looks good mate.

Can add the icon for pretty much no extra as you aren't getting an additional CP with 40 points left.

Or, you could drop the skulls and bump one squad of letters to 30 to do some serious damage.

I've thought about maxing out one of the Bloodletter units, then I sat down and measured it out. That unit size is very unwieldy to get Leave None Alive off as that's used at the start of the combat phase and there's a good chance you'll charge out of range of a Hero without risking them. 

I did think about adding the Bleeding Icon, that'll stack real good with the innate Reapers of Vengeance command ability

[Smooth criminal]

15 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

You can run Brass Despoilers in Khorne. 

Q: Can Brass Despoilers, Phantasmagoria of Fate, Pestilent Throng and Depraved Drove be used as part of a Chaos army that owes allegiance to a Chaos God? For example, can I take a Brass Despoilers battalion as part of a Khorne army? A: Yes

‘Units from this battalion gain the Khorne keyword. In addition, this warscroll battalion is part of the Khorne faction and the Beasts of Chaos faction.’

It works. I'm looking forward to trying it (I'm BoC main).

The problem with using BoC under Khorne allegiance is that a lot of stuff won't work on them.

No demon/mortal-specific buffs. This basically leaves bloodsecrator and priests.  Also without allegiance BoC lose all of their ways to get up the board fast except the run+charge.

Is slower BoC with bloodsecrator and priests better than BoC with just a BoC allegiance? Who knows, maybe.  Or maybe it's just same Khorne, but with worse saves.

Anyway it's an interesting experiment because you'll know for sure if warscrolls or allegiance is holding Khorne back after playing it.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[Grimrock]

2 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

No demon/mortal-specific buffs. This basically leaves bloodsecrator and priests.  Also without allegiance BoC lose all of their ways to get up the board fast except the run+charge.

Plus wrathmongers. A bullgor with +2 attacks, +1 to hit, and reroll attacks from the battalion is pretty darn terrifying. The small unit size and good base speed  also works well with the new wholly within rules.

The bullgors weren't getting any speed from their book anyway, so I think khorne might be the best way to actually make them shine. I was thinking about a brass despoilers army last edition to get away from bloodletters and I still like how it looks.

[Ravinsild]

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Skullfiend Tribe
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
- General
- Trait: Master Decapitator  
- Artefact: Crowncleaver  
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Banner of Khorne (Artefact): Banner of Blood
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Goreaxe and Skullhammer

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
2 x Khorgoraths (200)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Skulltake (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146
 

Until I get can get Bloodmaster, Skulltaker and a Wrath of Khorne BT to try a mixed daemons and mortals list the above is the list I’ve chosen to go with. 

Do you have any recommended changes or suggestions or otherwise any input? Is this the best bang for my points and the maximum potential I can squeeze out of a Skulltake? 

The premise is basically sit on objectives with Blood Warriors then turbo buff my Skullreapers with auras of attack’s (Aspiring Deathbringer, Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers) and push out all the attacks plus use the Skullfiend tribe to make my Khorgoraths killier as well. 

So basically shove out my Blood Warriors as anvils and then swing back with my deathball huddle fully buffed. 

Any changes or recommendations for this list as it is? 

[Sleboda]

@AresX8

Interesting list.

A little heavy on mortal stuff for my taste, and also not a fan of the imposed lack of choice that the hosts bring, but I can totally see the appeal.

If you had to go with less mortal influence, what would you do? As an experiment, if you had to limit your mortal points to 10% (200 of 2000) what would that look like?

[fwlr]

If your mortal points are 200, then two slaughterpriests. That's easy

If you're willing for a tad more than that, so 18% of your list, you take a bloodsecrator as well. A strong core of any list.

[Sneeto]

54 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Well, in fairness, I have been including a Bloodsecrator in my list, and have a Slaughterpriest ready for my next game, but I'm trying very hard to make demons work. 

In my last game against Seraphon, the Bloodsecrator got one-shotted by the Swords endless spell. He's pretty vulnerable, and it made me realize that you cannot put all your hopes and dreams in one model.

I don’t really like going pure demon, I saw a list that almost went pure demon and he didn’t seem to do great. Bloodletters are too slow to grab objectives I feel. 

I like the flesh hounds a lot, they’re quick and can nab objectives I had good experiences with them running ahead to grab objectives with a 10man blood warrior following. Usually they can outpace the enemy and keep them spread so the enemy can’t charge/pile in and contest point. By second turn your blood warriors should be close enough to back them up. 

I think running pure demons or pure mortals will be a bad thing.

also you’ll want a minimum of two priests for sure with the skull throne helping 

[Satyrical Sophist]

7 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

The problem with using BoC under Khorne allegiance is that a lot of stuff won't work on them.

No demon/mortal-specific buffs. This basically leaves bloodsecrator and priests.  Also without allegiance BoC lose all of their ways to get up the board fast except the run+charge.

Is slower BoC with bloodsecrator and priests better than BoC with just a BoC allegiance? Who knows, maybe.  Or maybe it's just same Khorne, but with worse saves.

The lack of buffs is over stated. They benefit from more than enough good buffs. The main ones they seem to lose the Aspiring Death Bringer extra attack, and the Blood Stoker buff.  They also lose the Mighty Lord of Khorne reroll charges. I'm not saying that these are not good buffs, but they remain effected by the Wrath Mongers, Slaughter Priests and Bloodsectrator, and have some very good attacks to boost. 

Khorne BoC can't ambush, but honestly it's not much to miss out on. You say they are not much faster, but Gors and Bestigors both run and charge, and get +1 to the run, meaning that they basically run 7+d6. That's an average move of 10.5 and can still charge. Centigor move stupidly fast, a default 14 +1 + d6 for charging.

I also don't know why you are saying that BoC have worse saves than Khorne. The beast shields give Gors and Centigors a 4+ in combat, and Bestigor have a 4+ native. 

 

 

[Impa]

Test running this list hopefully soon! Will report back when I get a game in hopefully Sunday. Think I’m done with gore pilgrims. It’s too reliant on your priests/secrator not getting picked off. And this bloodmad business with goretide seems like so much fun! Skullreapers, bloodstoker, bloodsecrator, priest and blood warrior unit with a reaver screen in the back for blood sacrifice and to hold up any rear flank charges on one side of the board. 2 x 10 BWs, wrathmongers, the deathbringer and 2 priests heading to the other side of the board. Nice board coverage and some speed. Extra attacks from the mongers or secrator along with the battalion. Can’t wait to put this into action. Also you can drop a priest for another stoker or reduce a 10 man BW unit to 5 and pick up more spells if you desire. The priests and bloodsecrator or like bullseyes to any opponent I play, so when you loose one gorepilgrims is essentially wasted points. So at least with the bloodmad battalion it has more opportunity within the scope of each game. Sad to shelf my daemons, but they just seem to be bigger more expensive bullseyes.. Tyrants of blood/reapers is great times. But when you loose two of your bloodthirsters and if you took your squishy bloodletters into battle and they got hosed down by ranged attacks. Or some crazy charge.. It can be game over. But oh man when things go your way, it’s a beautiful bloody victory where the game is called literally immediately I’ve found... but this list here seems to have a lot of anvils with MW bounce back from the blood warriors, some decent damage output from the reapers and priests doing their thing. I hope others have done a list like this, I’d love some feedback. I’m not a competitive player, so I’m limited to opponents.. cheers 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Impa

[Sleboda]

36 minutes ago, fwlr said:

If your mortal points are 200, then two slaughterpriests. That's easy

If you're willing for a tad more than that, so 18% of your list, you take a bloodsecrator as well. A strong core of any list.

I'm certainly leaning toward adding the priest (and keeping the bloodsecrator), but why the second priest?

[AresX8]

Found something in the Designer's Commentary in regarding the Skullshard Mantle from Reapers of Vengeance:

"Q: Some abilities allow a unit to ignore the effects of a spell. What does this mean exactly?

A: It means that the rule effects caused by a spell that has been successfully cast and that has not been unbound do not apply to the unit. Any other units will be affected normally."

Pg 6, first question under Wizards and Spells: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en.pdf

Still not too sure what it means XD

[Mikeymajq]

I think if you're a tournament player, there is absolutely no reason to go only mortals or only daemons. If you play non-tournaments and want a cool themed army then that's another thing entirely. Personally I would never do competetive tournaments for that reason, a fun game for me is a close fought one with an army that I enjoy both gameplay wise and thematically. 

I play mostly mortals with some daemons. Like the Daemon prince is a nice beatstick with good mobility, I tend to summon bloodletters. I want flesh hounds, they might also be a decent screen, but I think I'd use them in a different role. My main problem with deamons is actually how few of their heroes do any real buffs (unless they're blood thirsters). Like the cheapest bloodletter hero seem rather pointless to me, or am I missing anything? 

I might have to try some 5 man blood warriors it seems. I've only ever taken them in 10s. The Goreglaive is that amazing. But now that gorefists actually do stuff it might not be that painful to lose out on it for a good screen that'll do some damage on the way out (something Reavers never do).

@AresX8 : it means if they cast a debuff or something that does damage, it won't work on a unit that ignores the effects of a spell. This goes both ways so even if it would somehow buff or heal the unit it won't work. It's immune. 

It's not quite the same as dispelled though. Say it's a spell that does d3 MW to everyone within 6". It won't do anything to the immune unit, but other units could still take damage from the spell. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Mikeymajq

[Warbossironteef]

40 minutes ago, Impa said:

Test running this list hopefully soon! Will report back when I get a game in hopefully Sunday. Think I’m done with gore pilgrims. It’s too reliant on your priests/secrator not getting picked off. And this bloodmad business with goretide seems like so much fun! Skullreapers, bloodstoker, bloodsecrator, priest and blood warrior unit with a reaver screen in the back for blood sacrifice and to hold up any rear flank charges on one side of the board. 2 x 10 BWs, wrathmongers, the deathbringer and 2 priests heading to the other side of the board. Nice board coverage and some speed. Extra attacks from the mongers or secrator along with the battalion. Can’t wait to put this into action. Also you can drop a priest for another stoker or reduce a 10 man BW unit to 5 and pick up more spells if you desire. The priests and bloodsecrator or like bullseyes to any opponent I play, so when you loose one gorepilgrims is essentially wasted points. So at least with the bloodmad battalion it has more opportunity within the scope of each game. Sad to shelf my daemons, but they just seem to be bigger more expensive bullseyes.. Tyrants of blood/reapers is great times. But when you loose two of your bloodthirsters and if you took your squishy bloodletters into battle and they got hosed down by ranged attacks. Or some crazy charge.. It can be game over. But oh man when things go your way, it’s a beautiful bloody victory where the game is called literally immediately I’ve found... but this list here seems to have a lot of anvils with MW bounce back from the blood warriors, some decent damage output from the reapers and priests doing their thing. I hope others have done a list like this, I’d love some feedback. I’m not a competitive player, so I’m limited to opponents.. cheers 

This is almost the exact list that I'm running/testing. It will be interesting to see if you can get a lot out of 30 BloodWarriors. As much as Khorne is about killing stuff I actually think this list is best suited for playing the objective game and counter charges.  

All my mortal lists seem to have 10xSkullreapers and 5x Wrathmongers, but I would love to test 5x Skullreapers and 2 5xWrathmongers. You could spread the Wrahtmongers buffs to more of your units and they can fight behind BloodWarriors with their 2 inch reach. Might be something considering. Shoot now that we are talking about it,  even the idea of 3x 5xWrathmongers is interesting. Bascially your BloodWarriors and Mongers would get onto objectives and fight together. Sounds like it could be good because every extra attack on a BW is great because they swing again when they die. Maybe you could test dropping a Slaughterpriest, 5x BWs and adding another 5xWrathmonger unit & Bloodreaver(or something else).

I'm also planning on taking a Chaos Lord on Manticore and also trying Chaos Warshine. The Chaos Lord with Demensional Blade takes full advantage of the Goretide command trait and it gives the list another fast unit that really packs a punch. It has a 6 inch pile-in as well, so it's great behind chaff and can also fly 12, run and still get into combat. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Warbossironteef

[Bjornas]

5 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

I feel like the more I play the more I might like 5man Blood warriors. Less of a physical footprint than reavers but if you buff them to like 3 or 4 attacks they do great, even at 5 man strong. You throw them into a choppy enemy unit, attack, then take like 30 hits back, dishing out some mortals, then attack again when you die. They seem like great little "grenades" in a goretide army. I mean nothing game breaking, but just a solid little unit that I think can do more work than people give them credit for. 

 

4 hours ago, AresX8 said:

The only downside is you don't get a Goreglaive in a 5 man unit. But you're correct otherwise, I've seen similar results from the single 5 man unit I use in my list to fulfill Bloodmad Warband.

I’m a bit torn whether to use 1x15 and 1x5 or go all the way with 1x20 in a Goretide/Slaughterborn army. A whipped 1x20 with Bronzed flesh and double Gorecleavers could do some serious work as an anvil and should easily survive a double turn. However I’m also contemplating the benefits of  a 1x5 running around as you say, and with a 3+ save ignoring one point of rend, perhaps 20 is overkill.

Also regarding Chaos Warriors, I’ve been using 1x10 with shields for a long time and 4 out of 5 games they rarely do anything but stand around and die. And even that they dont do very well. Will be playing them as BWs from now on and will replace then as soon as my painting backlog is cleared. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Bjornas

[Impa]

41 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

This is almost the exact list that I'm running/testing. It will be interesting to see if you can get a lot out of 30 BloodWarriors. As much as Khorne is about killing stuff I actually think this list is best suited for playing the objective game and counter charges.  

All my mortal lists seem to have 10xSkullreapers and 5x Wrathmongers, but I would love to test 5x Skullreapers and 2 5xWrathmongers. You could spread the Wrahtmongers buffs to more of your units and they can fight behind BloodWarriors with their 2 inch reach. Might be something considering. Shoot now that we are talking about it,  even the idea of 3x 5xWrathmongers is interesting. Bascially your BloodWarriors and Mongers would get onto objectives and fight together. Sounds like it could be good because every extra attack on a BW is great because they swing again when they die. Maybe you could test dropping a Slaughterpriest, 5x BWs and adding another 5xWrathmonger unit & Bloodreaver(or something else).

I'm also planning on taking a Chaos Lord on Manticore and also trying Chaos Warshine. The Chaos Lord with Demensional Blade takes full advantage of the Goretide command trait and it gives the list another fast unit that really packs a punch. It has a 6 inch pile-in as well, so it's great behind chaff and can also fly 12, run and still get into combat. 

The only thing is if You wanted to go heavy with the wrathmongers you’d probably want to take that battalion geared towards them. I feel the damage output is better on the skullreapers and the mongers/stoker are purely support to up the attacks on the bloodwarriors and reapers. Although I do see your point. I guess it boils down to what’s more valuable. Drop a priest loosing a blood boil, potential judgement, a prayer and also have to Drop 5 blood warriors. To gain 5 wrathmongers giving you the extra attacks on 5 less bodies essentially equals out. But you do gain the monger attacks in themselves. And they have rend and reach. Hmmm it’s a tough decision. I’m just under the assumption more anvils and more prayers are maybe more valuable then a few more attacks and a 5 man rend/reach. Also we have to consider the wholly within junk. That does sound pretty cool with the manticore too though. Haha so many options. Let me know what you find when you play your lists. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Impa

[Battlefury]

BoC feat. BoK seems to have a simple issue.

As long as the entire army is moving towards the enemy ( might just be first turn ) it is fine. In that army I would recommend to actually not use the altar, as it will be worthless. Noone that applis buffs will stay in the 8" bubble, so that's basically why.

The Bestigors pretty much outrun the Khorne heros.
That's the issue here. The Heros just can't really stay with them, and they won't stay wholly within the bubble effects.

[Warbossironteef]

41 minutes ago, Impa said:

The only thing is if You wanted to go heavy with the wrathmongers you’d probably want to take that battalion geared towards them. I feel the damage output is better on the skullreapers and the mongers/stoker are purely support to up the attacks on the bloodwarriors and reapers. Although I do see your point. I guess it boils down to what’s more valuable. Drop a priest loosing a blood boil, potential judgement, a prayer and also have to Drop 5 blood warriors. To gain 5 wrathmongers giving you the extra attacks on 5 less bodies essentially equals out. But you do gain the monger attacks in themselves. And they have rend and reach. Hmmm it’s a tough decision. I’m just under the assumption more anvils and more prayers are maybe more valuable then a few more attacks and a 5 man rend/reach. Also we have to consider the wholly within junk. That does sound pretty cool with the manticore too though. Haha so many options. Let me know what you find when you play your lists. 

I've advertised for the Mani-Lord a few times but I'll do it one last time. Here are the two dice graphs for the Manti-Lord with Bloodsecrator, Whipped and buffed by a prayer (not that difficult):

(Charging a unit with a 4+ save)

Dimensional Daemon Blade:

Lance:

And then his mount attacks. Imagine if you can actually pull off some Wrathmonger and Aspiring DB buffs... I feel like every Mortal Army should consider him. He's a freaking Blood Thrister. Most Mortal heroes are wasting the plus one to damage and that is sooo good.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Warbossironteef

[Ravinsild]

2 hours ago, Impa said:

Test running this list hopefully soon! Will report back when I get a game in hopefully Sunday. Think I’m done with gore pilgrims. It’s too reliant on your priests/secrator not getting picked off. And this bloodmad business with goretide seems like so much fun! Skullreapers, bloodstoker, bloodsecrator, priest and blood warrior unit with a reaver screen in the back for blood sacrifice and to hold up any rear flank charges on one side of the board. 2 x 10 BWs, wrathmongers, the deathbringer and 2 priests heading to the other side of the board. Nice board coverage and some speed. Extra attacks from the mongers or secrator along with the battalion. Can’t wait to put this into action. Also you can drop a priest for another stoker or reduce a 10 man BW unit to 5 and pick up more spells if you desire. The priests and bloodsecrator or like bullseyes to any opponent I play, so when you loose one gorepilgrims is essentially wasted points. So at least with the bloodmad battalion it has more opportunity within the scope of each game. Sad to shelf my daemons, but they just seem to be bigger more expensive bullseyes.. Tyrants of blood/reapers is great times. But when you loose two of your bloodthirsters and if you took your squishy bloodletters into battle and they got hosed down by ranged attacks. Or some crazy charge.. It can be game over. But oh man when things go your way, it’s a beautiful bloody victory where the game is called literally immediately I’ve found... but this list here seems to have a lot of anvils with MW bounce back from the blood warriors, some decent damage output from the reapers and priests doing their thing. I hope others have done a list like this, I’d love some feedback. I’m not a competitive player, so I’m limited to opponents.. cheers 

I posted a battle report with pictures even of a list like this. 

 

[Impa]

6 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I posted a battle report with pictures even of a list like this. 

 

page? i'll go back and read it. been tough sifting through the belly aching. I wish i was a Fyreslayer. 

[Battlefury]

Again for the Bstigors. They don't really need those buffs, really. They're pretty good on their own.

When I take Brass Despoilers s the Battalion and they gain KHORNE keyword, are Bestigors battleline then?

[Ravinsild]

7 minutes ago, Impa said:

page? i'll go back and read it. been tough sifting through the belly aching. I wish i was a Fyreslayer. 

spoiler alert I lost the game 👀 

One of the major reasons I because he charged me and pinned me in with his Mighty Skullcrushers in my deployment zone which took forever to hack away so I could get to the objectives. 

Also we played it wrong and he had used the Goretide Command Ability on them slinging them across the board really far. I missed that until 2 rounds later when I thought about it. 

Ah well c’est la vie. I liked the list. I want to try a Skulltake list again.