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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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6 hours ago, Mayple said:

There's the misunderstanding right there :)  I'm talking about using the battalion in coordination with the extra attacks, which I was unsure about how would work, because I don't know how exactly their extra attacks from the pre-nerf effect was worded. Counting the attacks by getting them into close combat is way too much of a wishful thinking, I agree. 

I think you ought to recheck the gorethunder cohort - it no longer does what you think it does anymore. If it did still let you shoot twice I’d still be buying the extra 2 cannons I had planned.

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10 hours ago, Killax said:

Because they wanted to sell at least some stock of the model and decided enough was enough I guess.
I'm not dissapointed at the change, I am dissapointed that this is the third Khorne book, where minor changes are made and some hat at GW manages to make a Warscroll mistake. 

No. The reason is the designer simply didn't know the rules.

This is the same designer who (at one of the bigger tournaments last year) didn't know the effects of the bloodsecrator banner and incorrectly ruled against the brazen rune range - even though it was in the FAQ at the time.

Im glad it's been corrected, now we don't have to chat about the ugliest model in the army.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Darksteve said:

So I believe you can, but you have to order them in a very specific way. You have two abilities that let something happen after you first fight. 1 lets another BT fight and the other lets you fight again. If you let the next BT fight immediately then you will still qualify for the other fight again ability as you have not fought again before the ability is resolved, which is what they addressed.

I think there is some confusion going around.

These 3 entries are only targeted at abilities that allow the SAME UNIT to attack again.

Meaning, the interaction with Tyrants of Blood is the same as before. The purpose of those entries is to make sure that you cannot abuse multiple activations of Leave None Alive. or similar, on a single unit, i.e. if you attack with a unit it still activates all abilities but every extra activation after the first are forfeit due to the sequential order of attacks  (if that extra activation requires the first attack as trigger).

Additionally, these entries made sure that start/end of a phase are still part of that phase and not some kind of sub-phase. So you cannot attack multiple times "for the first time" within a given phase (I'm not sure if there was some cheese I missed or people REALLY wanted to argue that begin/end of a phase is not the phase itself...).

E.g for Tyrants + Reapers . -> Bloodthirster A attacks for the first time, I used Leave None Alive 3 times on him -> Leave None Alive triggers 3x, Fierce Rivals once -> I can now choose what to resolve* -> my order Leave None Alive(1), Leave None Alive(2), Fierce Rivals(3), Leave None Alive(4) -> I get my second activation(1) -> I already attacked a second time now and therefore (2) is forfeit -> I activate another BT(3), while still being in the same time frame -> "countable number of steps/subsequences" -> the last Leave None Alive (4) is thrown away due to FAQ restrictions like (2) -> ... -> end of time frame

The sequence can be different, depending on how I order things but the result is always the same number of activations.

To be honest, I am convinced that there was an easier way to fix Leave None Alive and the first attack per phase than this, but I guess it is what it is for now.

 

* These abilities happen at the same time. The "immediately" in their rule text means that they are of higher priority than others but two abilities with this wording still happen in the same time frame and we can always choose what to resolve first thanks to:

Quote

Q: If several abilities are triggered at the same time (at the start of a hero phase, for example), how do you determine the order in which they are used?

A: If several abilities can be used at the same time, the player whose turn is taking place uses their abilities first, one after the other, in any order they desire; then the player whose turn is not taking place uses their abilities, one after another, in any order they desire.

 

Edited by Xasz
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21 minutes ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:

Is there any halfway decent 1000pt lists lurking in this new book?

Maybe something like this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (300)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 75
 

Not sure if you'll end up with a lot of friends.

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1 hour ago, Xasz said:

Maybe something like this:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (300)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 75
 

Not sure if you'll end up with a lot of friends.

Whats the deal with the Slaughterhost and the Artefact? 

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If theres one thing I'm hoping happens tangentially related to khorne, its a buff to the slaughterbrute whenever they get updated!

How is such a huge creature completely lacing rend -2! And it's giant mouth doesnt even have rend!

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53 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

If theres one thing I'm hoping happens tangentially related to khorne, its a buff to the slaughterbrute whenever they get updated!

How is such a huge creature completely lacing rend -2! And it's giant mouth doesnt even have rend!

That, and the soul grinder. Mine is getting dusty on the shelf. I'm looking to try out my twin deamon princes now they re-roll 1's to hit! Might be worth taking now!

 

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11 hours ago, DarkProdigy said:

I think you ought to recheck the gorethunder cohort - it no longer does what you think it does anymore. If it did still let you shoot twice I’d still be buying the extra 2 cannons I had planned.

Fair enough. That was one of the first questions I asked, and built most of the follow-up points on it, so I have been misinformed. Thanks for pointing it out :) How does it work currently?

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1 hour ago, Mayple said:

Fair enough. That was one of the first questions I asked, and built most of the follow-up points on it, so I have been misinformed. Thanks for pointing it out :) How does it work currently?

No worries! And I left my book at home and am out for the day so maybe someone can verify but it was either +1 to hit rolls when in range of the batallions blood throne or reroll hits, I forgot which but definitely wasn’t exciting since you can get to a rerolling 2+ with a killing frenzy and demon locus anyway. 

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8 minutes ago, DarkProdigy said:

No worries! And I left my book at home and am out for the day so maybe someone can verify but it was either +1 to hit rolls when in range of the batallions blood throne or reroll hits, I forgot which but definitely wasn’t exciting since you can get to a rerolling 2+ with a killing frenzy and demon locus anyway. 

Ouch! Yeah that changes my whole stance. The extra attack from the Wrathmonger was not bonkers at all then 😛

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So plural keywords = singular keywords.

Does that mean I can take letter heroes/karanak as a unit required for battalions? For example 2 heroes + 2 units for the requirement of 1 hero and 3+ any unit in murderhost. Which hero would the battalion bonus be measured from?

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6 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

So plural keywords = singular keywords.

Does that mean I can take letter heroes/karanak as a unit required for battalions? For example 2 heroes + 2 units for the requirement of 1 hero and 3+ any unit in murderhost. Which hero would the battalion bonus be measured from?

No, keywords and keyword checks are in bold.

If the entries (e.g. in battalions) are not in bold, they are references to exact warscrolls.

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People seem undecided on this, but it comes down to a yes/no based on interpretation of the RAW.

Basically, is tyrants of blood worth it? Yes/no? Do they always fight first or just a one time thing.

I'm heading to whw again tomorrow to play the 40k doubles event, so I will see if I can ask the rules designers as to exactly what is intended. Then it comes down to RAW/RAI which is just a can of worms noone wants to open.

 

 

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#competetive play

So apparently Skull Canons are kind of not worth it, again. Just as in the old book. That one shot with it's random damage makes it pretty unreliable.

Wrathmongers are kind of uninteresting. For their 140 points it's not really worth to have that +1A. They are just not really that good in melee, tbh. That MW output, when they get killed, is also a little unreliable. So the overall Wrathmonger "package" just doesn't really give it to me anymore.

My list of favorit units would look like this:

Blood Warriors ( but only, because thei're better than Reavers )
Skullreapers
Skullcrushers
Bloodletters
Flesh Hounds

Bloodstoker
Skarr Bloodwrath
Exalted DB
Slaughterpriest

Seems, like Bloodthirsters can just be bracketed, or even be killed much too easy.
That random damage value can turn them ( and already did ) in expensive units, that don't deal that much damage, to even justify their point value.

Atm BoK feels a bt like a total "Beer and Bretzel" army, imo.
Too random, too restricted.

#free games

The army can be fun, if we want to actually tell funny stories. But that's really all I can say about that, as I am more into the competetive games.
 

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Hello again sorry for the extreme confusion on my part but I'm getting conflicting answers to my question so I hope to reword it more clearly. Depending on what is the right answer may affect whether I play Khorne or not. 

OK here is the scenario.

Its the combat phase on Battle Round 1 and I use the Leave None Alive CA on my Bloodletters to attack twice. Fast Forward to the combat phase of Battle Round 4. Can I choose the same unit of Bloodletters to attack a second time because they haven't fought yet in this Battle Round 4's combat phase or are they no longer an eligible unit because they already fought way back in Battle Round 1? 

Thanks.

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13 minutes ago, Reezark_SP said:

Hello again sorry for the extreme confusion on my part but I'm getting conflicting answers to my question so I hope to reword it more clearly. Depending on what is the right answer may affect whether I play Khorne or not. 

OK here is the scenario.

Its the combat phase on Battle Round 1 and I use the Leave None Alive CA on my Bloodletters to attack twice. Fast Forward to the combat phase of Battle Round 4. Can I choose the same unit of Bloodletters to attack a second time because they haven't fought yet in this Battle Round 4's combat phase or are they no longer an eligible unit because they already fought way back in Battle Round 1? 

Thanks.

The rules are unclear.

The FAQ did not clear this up. Note how FEC had same wording and FAQ cleared it up so they can double fight every phase.

Everyone assumes you can.

 

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17 hours ago, MOMUS said:

No. The reason is the designer simply didn't know the rules.

This is the same designer who (at one of the bigger tournaments last year) didn't know the effects of the bloodsecrator banner and incorrectly ruled against the brazen rune range - even though it was in the FAQ at the time.

Im glad it's been corrected, now we don't have to chat about the ugliest model in the army.

Is it Robin Cruddace? He had no idea about Warhammer, the game itself, when he wrote his first Army Book (Tomb Kings), so it would not shock me if so.

Man, that would stink, though, if he is responsible for killing another army I am/was excited about in Khorne.

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2 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Atm BoK feels a bt like a total "Beer and Bretzel" army, imo.
Too random, too restricted.

I just returned from my local Warhammer store. The manager asked my opinion of my new Khorne army because he knew I was very excited about it.

My reply was pretty much what you just said. I said I'd enjoy it at home against friends, but could see no reason to entertain trying to actually win games with it, so it won't go to events as my army.

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Just looking at new Fyreslayer stuff.

Can't help but think they are what Khorne should be...

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41 minutes ago, jazman84 said:

Just looking at new Fyreslayer stuff.

Can't help but think they are what Khorne should be...

Except they all have guns and have no antimagic. Kinda the opposite of what Khorne supposed to be.

Aside from army-wide speed burst I don't see anything Khorne could get from them. 

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Posted (edited)

Okay, this is kinda gimmicky, but there is way to almost reliably get free blood points turn 1 to cast anything.

Buy N units of 1 model furies for 60pt each.

At the start of hero phase you cast a judgement that moves immediately. Cast icon (if it doesn't work you can try to cast axe, but it has chance to miss) and fly over furies they all die without rolls. Get your blood points.

Now you're still in "start of hero phase", so you can use the blood points for whatever. For example moving a 12 people crusher brick forward to charge turn 1.

Now cast the blood point prayer, that gets you 1 more, also you can buff the unit you moved. If you kill enough things you can repeat charge or fight at the beginning of opponent's phase.

 

Using furies probably isn't practical. You can take units of reavers instead. They will also unlock your battleline and can all be taken as single drop in dark feast with a priest.

Edited by Smooth criminal

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Some of you may be interested in my latest Faction Focus: Blades of Khorne, hot off the press.

I recently caught up with some of Australia's top Blades of Khorne players inc. Matt Campbell who won CanCon 2019 (220 player event) with Khorne and Pat Neven who played Khorne at the Australian Masters 2018... we talk through the new book, army building, advanced tactics, and more.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, jazman84 said:

Just looking at new Fyreslayer stuff.

Can't help but think they are what Khorne should be...

 

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Is it Robin Cruddace? He had no idea about Warhammer, the game itself, when he wrote his first Army Book (Tomb Kings), so it would not shock me if so.

Man, that would stink, though, if he is responsible for killing another army I am/was excited about in Khorne.

The book feels like as if it was on the agenda/development pipeline but no one in the team was actually passionate about it or the army.

No matter what you plan on doing with the book or how you play your jolly murderous cannibals, I think we can all agree that this sentence is closer to reality than anyone of us would like.

I've been lurking around the Fyreslayer rumours and threads the last couple days (seemingly like many other khorne players) and players are fairly happy with the changes. Not to mention that several aspects of the book seem rather strong and people already expect a harsh FAQ or point changes via GHB...

My previous assumption seems to be true, that they produced two fairly strong books with FEC and Skaven, then paddled backwards hard with BoK and are now releasing a similarly strong book. Something that happens ever so often in tabletop for some reason, at least I've seen this happen in 40k a couple times. One book among several, ending up in a weird "power-valley" compared to books in close release date proximity.

Personally, I'll keep playing Khorne but more due to me liking the aesthetics, having a huge collection and not having another army to use (I've got a good chunk of Slaves to Darkness and Everchosen but those aren't actually armies aren't they...)

Maybe the big FAQ and GHB2019 can help by bringing other armies in line (DoK, SCE Celestar...). Which could help a lot and luckily we don't have to wait ~4 or more years for something to change like in oldhammer (nevertheless, it still stings...). 

Edited by Xasz
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