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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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7 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

So now that we're back on! If anyone's got the time to read this, I've got two games tomorrow against Beastmen and Death (Arkhan, Zombie Dragon, Skeletons), using a Skullfiend Tribe mortals list. Any advice you can give me against these armies will be much appreciated. 

Against death I can help. Kill Arkhan ASAP. Spam all your blood boils, wrath axes, and get into combat quickly with him. As soon as hes dead the army will struggle. You can kill the skeletons but for 1CP they can bring back a unit of 40. The zombie dragon is the hammer, so either smack it with chaff/anvil or deal with it the same way as Arkhan.

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11 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

Against death I can help. Kill Arkhan ASAP. Spam all your blood boils, wrath axes, and get into combat quickly with him. As soon as hes dead the army will struggle. You can kill the skeletons but for 1CP they can bring back a unit of 40. The zombie dragon is the hammer, so either smack it with chaff/anvil or deal with it the same way as Arkhan.

Cheers! I know he'll bring 1x40 and 1x20 skeletons for starters, plus some knights and other stuff. I reckon just try to ignore the bigger blocks since they can come back?

Gonna be a challenge to kill Arkhan, especially since I'm only using the Hex skulls and not the Axe, but it's gonna be a good learning experience regardless. 

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11 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

Cheers! I know he'll bring 1x40 and 1x20 skeletons for starters, plus some knights and other stuff. I reckon just try to ignore the bigger blocks since they can come back?

Gonna be a challenge to kill Arkhan, especially since I'm only using the Hex skulls and not the Axe, but it's gonna be a good learning experience regardless. 

I actually just played a game against Arkhan so I can tell you right now that the skulls absolutely cripple death (managed to make Nagash forget Hand of Dust!). He will have to keep Arkhan 16" away from your Skull Altar, so plop that right down in the middle of the board for best coverage. 

Yeah unfortunately he can bring back a unit that has died of his, so maybe just kill the unit of 20 for points scoring.

How many priests you running? 2 will be a safe bet for output and making sure the skulls are babysat.

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Camp Graveyards. You can deny him respawn. It’s not uncounterable. 

Depending on the situation and how he plays his Graveyards if you stand in such a way it’s impossible for him to be within 9” or set up WHOLLY within 9” then it can’t come back. He may have to use a different gravesite or not be in range. You can counter play his bringing it back. 

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21 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Camp Graveyards. You can deny him respawn. It’s not uncounterable. 

Depending on the situation and how he plays his Graveyards if you stand in such a way it’s impossible for him to be within 9” or set up WHOLLY within 9” then it can’t come back. He may have to use a different gravesite or not be in range. You can counter play his bringing it back. 

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If only I knew that in the game I just played! Thank you so much for the info!

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On 4/5/2019 at 7:50 AM, Broken Netcode said:

Im glad youre sticking with the best god! Solidarity through bloodshed and all ;)

One thing we all have to remember is the more we all play with our armies, the better we will become at playing khorne in general. After about 3 months of play eventually youll understand what tactics you can use in game to mitigate weaknesses from the book.

 

Overall, from a semi-competitive standpoint, I feel the tome is exactly where it needs to be. Nothing is blatantly overpowered and nothing is totally bad (except reavers... those can just go in the bin in my opinion XD). With enough hard work we can make our enemies tremble for this is our path of skulls!

Yep, besides after enough play testing, I’m just gonna say: This army feels even MOAR fun to play!! I mean, at the very least, we stuck with Khorne to the very end, and that’s what counts :) . At least Khorne is pleased with us for that

6 hours ago, fwlr said:

Anyone else experience the long period of the site being down?

I haven't been able to get on for days, just had 'community not available'

Most of the posts on this page are from Thursday, and considering how active this thread has been recently I assume lots of others got it too.

I've missed this forum😝

Yep had the exact same thing: I missed this forum!!! 

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3 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Cheers! I know he'll bring 1x40 and 1x20 skeletons for starters, plus some knights and other stuff. I reckon just try to ignore the bigger blocks since they can come back?

Gonna be a challenge to kill Arkhan, especially since I'm only using the Hex skulls and not the Axe, but it's gonna be a good learning experience regardless. 

Yep, Hexgorgers are fine. Keeping them close to arkhan could force your opponent to be unwilling to risk his spells (like curse of years). Blood Boil is definite, don’t forget it can help take out Arkhan. And for his skeletons, well you generally can’t ignore them because he will probably try to tarpit you. If possible, you can either feed suicide units to them (more blood Tithe), or send unbuffed blood Warriors (maybe with Bronzed flesh), to tie them up, or even Skullcrushers. Tarpitting can work against the dead, because while they have lots of attacks, they are generally weak against good armor saves. 

Their heroes are extremely important. With the skullfiend tribe, it should be easy to activate your ability. But KILL HIS HEROES. Who is your general, by the way? If it’s a Juggerlord, you can try hunting down their heroes. If it’s not possible, then use Blood Boil and Hexgorger. If he’s using Vampire Lords and Necromancers, they’ll be worried about the Hexgorger Skulls. Wight Kings will have to be slain the old fashioned way: with Blood Boils. The Wrath axe is definitely good here, but I know you’re Not able to use it. But test it out next time! It’s very potent

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3 hours ago, Bjornas said:

So now that we're back on! If anyone's got the time to read this, I've got two games tomorrow against Beastmen and Death (Arkhan, Zombie Dragon, Skeletons), using a Skullfiend Tribe mortals list. Any advice you can give me against these armies will be much appreciated. 

For Beastmen, the first thing to remember: Be extremely wary if they have Ungor and Disc Enlightened, because they might try engaging you with Ungor, then let you kill ungor, then attack with Enlightened. That’s one of their highest damage outputs around. Here, I actually love Blood Warriors buffed to the moon, because they WILL MURDER THE ENLIGHTENED when they die. Use blood Warriors to kill the ungor unit, then kill disc Enlightened with no respite. 

the army is very glass cannon. Bestigors are single wound, your Wrathmongers and Skullreapers and blood Warriors will hurt them a LOT. They also have poor bravery. Bullgors are squishy, 5+ save is not good against your entire army. 

Do NOT forget, if they are playing Gavespawn, they likely have a Beastlord with the artifact. KILL HIM. He does a butt Load of damage. 

They likely have a Shaggoth too. Have your hexgorgers hug him, and try to keep any bray shamans closeby. 

The army in general has not too much damage. They don’t rely heavily on damages to win, they focus on usually playing objective game. They will summon units to capture backfield objectives. They will use their speed, and numbers to overwhelm objectives. 

In this case, do NOT play objectives too much. I’m not saying ignore them. Certainly grab them. But you’re not playing Goretide. With a Skullfiend tribe, focus on killing the enemy. You can probably rack up a LOT of blood Tithe. If possible, bring a group of Skullcrushers to prowl the back line and rip apart their summoned units(They’re usually 10 goats strong). U get blood Tithe from this: and use it wisely. Summoning daemons from this is not a bad idea, although I would focus on rewards like Relentless frenzy or the attack again reward.

Even brazen meteor to trigger multiple battleshock tests is good. Their battleshock is generally bad, they rely HEAVILY on inspirising presence to survive. Personally, this is why I’d bring a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage, to trigger multiple battleshock and force them to waste Command points. 

In terms of command points, they usually bring tons of ways to generate it: Aetherqiartz Brooch, ancient beyond knowing, the knowing eye, etc. 

I think you’re in safe hands versus Beastmen; don’t play their game! They want to keep you on the back foot, and play the objectives game. What do you do? Punch your foe in the face! Take objectives by killing the units sitting on them. Rack up blood Tithe. KILL the Beastlord. Unbind as much as possible for the enemy wizards, Bray shamans love to cast devolve (it’s basically like our blood bind), and it can disrupt your battleline. 

If possible, could you give us an idea of the Beastmen list? What Greatfray, Battalions, general majority of the list (Thunderscorn, Undivided Brayherd, Tzeentch Brayherd or Warherd?)

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Got a tournament coming up so have been trying to bash out a list with some competitive games.

Anyone else feel like they're playing by different rules checking units are wholly within, while other players still snake back models for buffs.

Anyway got two bloodthirsters and a bunch of daemons, really not getting mileage out of karanak, going to try skarr instead. His ability to be summoned probably better tans harder to counter than free unit of dogs ability.

Edited by MOMUS
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I had a 2,000 point game tonight. I decided to run Bloodmad Warband. I went against a Gore Pilgrims list, so another Khorne player. It was on the map Escalation. He wont 5 victory points to my 3. I'll write my observations down below, and since both lists were Khorne, it's basically double the testing and double the learning. 

- I don't know what to think of Slaughterpriests. They're in a weird place. Tonight my opponent straight up had one camping on his altar, and had one follow his group. On the charge his group got out of range, and the other one was so far back it did nothing. Without re-rolls they're trash, I don't think the one that ran away from the altar did anything all game. It just failed every prayer and judgement summon. 

- My Slaughterpriests were within my Altar, and had re-rolls and got so many buffs off. However he charged me first and pinned me into my deployment zone due to how the terrain etc was so I couldn't kill my way out fast enough to tag any objectives so I lost. My Slaughterpriests out-performed his by like 4x, but also it was because everything was wholly within my territory but I lost the game sooooo....if the objectives AREN'T in your territory and the enemy has NO reason to come to you.....Slaughterpriests suck? I don't know. It's extremely frustrating being tied to the Altar which can't move. If you want re-rolls you more or less have 24'' inch buff bubble and once people run out of that no support, or just hope for good prayers. I say 24'' because wholly within 8'' circle around altar and another 16'' extending from the priest. 

- Judgements did nothing. For either of us. Neither of us got the axe off the entire game out of probably 4 tries between us. I got the Bleeding Icon out and it did I don't know a total of 4ish mortal wounds across the time it was out and flying around. They're super short range (16'' total threat range), hard to get off, and are they worth it? I may do 1 or 2 more games but I'm thinking no, they're pretty ******. Once again, only if your opponent comes TO YOU are they worthwhile for the reliable re-rolls and such. Otherwise they're probably not coming out and if they do it's still only a 16'' threat range. 

- Bloodreavers are still garbage. What a ****** waste of space. I hate these. I hate they're mandatory for Bloodmad. I just hate them. They're trash. They should be 10 points or free. Holy ****** I can't stand these things. 20 of mine killed 10 of his out of 40. His 30 fought back with 3 attacks each and killed 15 of my 20. Then they came in and killed maybe 3 Blood Warriors before they got wiped. All 60 Bloodreavers between us were gone by top of turn 2. Just what is the ****** point. 

- Mighty Skullcrushers are great. I didn't use them, but he used them on me and got the charge off. They did 9 mortal wounds (A unit of 6) which is 3 Brutes, 3 Wrathmongers or Skullreapers, 4 and a half Blood Warriors, 4 and a half 'Ardboyz, 9 Bloodreavers, Goblins, Skeletons, Graveguard, etc... It's just rock solid. Then all of their attacks. Then all their hoof attacks. Then they took THREE ROUNDS to fully die. They just sat there. They're really hitting hard on a charge as like a 1 time hammer and then they just TAAAANK. They're like a hammer and anvil in 1. They're pretty cool. Big like from me. 

- Blood Warriors are... fine. They're actually pretty killy if you go whole hog and give them everything. Give them all the attack buffs, give them Killing Frenzy, give them Bronzed Flesh, Whip them and they really honestly can do big work. Unbuffed they're...fine. They don't kill especially much, they die kind of easy, but they always get at least an attack in. I wish I had run Gorefists I think. I just don't know how many of those re-rolling 1's to hit really translated to real life wounds. The mortal wounds are just there. I think for an Anvil (how I am using them) the Gorefist is the way to go honestly. It's hard to tell but my gut is saying after 2 games with Axes, Gorefists are probably the way to go. 

- My Mighty Lord of Khorne whiffed so hard. He had 7 attacks with his main axe and only 1 whole attack got all the way through. That was tragic. I don't think he sucks. I'm just sad he ate the dirt so hard. 

- My Skullreapers destroyed. After all my Bloodreavers, and all 30 of my Blood Warriors are gone my Skullreapers went on to kill: 1 Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut, 1 Soulgrinder, 14 Blood Warriors, 10 Bloodletters, 1 Slaughterpriest. I believe that's 930 points. They straight up did about 55 damage (wounds) because I remembered my 6's of mortal wounds, plus I had them in a unit of 10 Killing Frenzy, Bronze Flesh, Whipped. They were re-rolling hits on the Bloodletters (10) and Blood Warriors (15 total), not the Lord or Soulgrinder, but they 1 shot those either way. They SHREDDED. It's possible they really may still be an absolute hammer. They alone deleted half his army after my warriors and reavers did jack ******. 

- Bloodmad Battalion. I don't know. I got 2 charges off and the extra attacks were fine, but like I said HE charged ME first and pinned me in and I got basically little to no benefit from the battalion the majority of the battle. Out of 4 whole battle rounds I benefited 2 or 3 whole times. I genuinely don't know if it was worth the 160 points. I could have taken Wrathmongers (I didn't) and possibly gained the same amount? Matter of fact, BECAUSE I was charged and they'd have just been there, all my guys (and..his?) would have gotten +1 attack. I'm iffy on it. I just don't know what other battalion is worth a damn. I've tried Gore Pilgrims (its fine), Skulltake (I still like it, just trying stuff out), Slaughterborn (didn't love it), Bloodmad (Idk how to feel) now, and I want to try Bloodforged. 

- I don't have a TL;DR I was just writing what I thought about what I saw. Soulgrinder didn't do anything, it goes far, has some shooting, but my Skullreapers absolutely nuked it before it got to do anything. I summoned a Bloodthirster turn 4 who didn't do anything. Maybe I could have spent my bloodtithe wiser instead of banking 8. 

- Considering running something to farm bloodtithe be it command traits, artifacts or prayers. It just seems like it comes in SO SLOW now. 

- Considering buying Daemons and running some sort of Mixed majority Daemon list. 

- Considering a trifecta of Wrath of Khorne BT, Bloodmaster, Skulltaker, and 30 bloodletters for a hammer. Combo would be Bloodletters +1 to hit (20+), re-roll all hits (WKBT CA), re-roll wound rolls of 1 (Skulltaker CA), Immediately attack 2nd (Bloodmaster with Halo + CA). Support would be Slaughterpriests (Killing Frenzy, Bronzed Flesh) and Bloodsecrator + Wrathmongers (+2 attacks yee.) 

- The above but with Reapers and running Khartoth the Bloodhunger on Bloodmaster + CA of Reapers for immediately activate Bloodletters then fight again, but only 50/50 if it's your opponents turn, whereas the other is guaranteed (unless they also have a thing with fight first). 

- Would run Flesh Hounds 2x5 Fleshhounds and probably 1x6 Bloodcrushers for the other hammer and objective grabbers. 

- Don't have Daemons yet so will need 2 start collecting boxes, wrath and rapture and a bloodthirster (Wrath of Khorne) 

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On 4/4/2019 at 2:31 PM, Warbossironteef said:

Guys... how many of us have played the new book in a Tournament? How many people have actually tried out all the new battalions and combos in a "competitive" setting? I would try not to say things like this because we just don't know. 

For example, no one is talking about Bloodforged. I feel like it could be very powerful. Wrathmongers are cheap and have 2 inch range, making it easier to get 10 guys into combat. 10 guys attacking twice? yes please. I also think a buffed up unit of 10-15 Bloodwarriors in Goretide is very competitive. Khorne lacks movement, but with a bloodstoker and Goretide, woooaahh momma. Also, how many people have played with a Goretide Chaos Lord? With Demionsal Blade he hits super hard, is cheaper than a BT, faster than a BT, and his main weapons don't degrade with damage. 

I'm not saying I'm right, because I dont have all the below models to test, but my point is, keep the faith brothers. Keep trying things and don't make big sweeping judgements that others might take the wrong way. I think something like the below could have a lot of potential. 

*Goretide*

Chaos Lord on Manticore (250)
- Flail & Lance
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Skullgrinder (80)
Bloodstoker (80)

15 x Blood Warriors (300)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Wrathmongers (280)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
10 x Skullreapers (360)

Bloodforged (120)
TOTAL: 1950/2000

I largely agree with you that the book is still fresh for most of us. At the same time however, a lot of the Battalions lead to something similar as it used to do. Examples being that if you have had succes with Council of Blood, chances are you will have even more succes with Tyrants of Blood. If anything this is because Tyrants of Blood brings the same army concept but is simply said MUCH BETTER. Having said that Tyrants of Blood still focusses on Bloodthirsters and their massive weakness to ranged attacks hasn't been removed whatsoever. 
The same applies to the always good, Gore Pilgrims. With Slaughterpriests gaining tools they never had, running a similar army again has become much better.
To me the only Battalions that really left are those who are now 'completely within buffs' relying on 1 or 2 Heroes. The bubble vs aura difference is too massive to really make much of it. It's because of this I sadly don't like Murderhost anymore. Killing the sole Bloodletter Hero basically resolves that whole Battalion being an issue. Even minor ranged support can do that. So it's a massive uphill battle versus pretty much every Order army that aims for a competitive list aswell.

What I fully agree with is that many arn't talking about several other Battalions that also are very interesting. Bloodforged included. There is however a true catch to this aswell, at least in my opinion. Because it's certainly great to have Wrathmongers but at the same time I feel they are so great because they are support units+. Meaning they can both support and melee combat rather well. Focussing on the for melee only however makes them inferior to Skullreapers to me. They still only have a 5+ save, so there will be many chaff units who can chew through them. IF you want to focus on them however, I wouldn't ever skip on Skarr here, because that whole 'they die easy' has an upside if they just swing (again).

Having said that all, I like your list, but I don't like the complete absence of ranged support here. Be it in the form of Skullcannons or Khorne Judgements. We arn't nearly as fast as we used to be, so we need units who force our opponents to come to us. 
 

On 4/4/2019 at 3:08 PM, Draakur said:

So I’m curious - of the Bloodthunder Stampede, Brass Stampede and Blood Hunt, what looks like it might be the most useful/viable battalion to build around right now would we say?

I think out of those Blood Hunt is probably the best choice. The thing with both Stampedes to me is that the auto vs a 2+ role is such a marginal boost it isn't really worth the effort. While Skullcrushers are still certainly good, I also see them as more of an anvil unit as anything else. While I really liked Bloodcrushers for a little while with Wrath and Rapture, they changed :P and now I really like Skullcannons over them as a shock unit. The big difference between the two is simple, Skullcannons can do it from further away and can be easily boosted by Wrathmongers.

But from those three I'd say Blood Hunt is the most solid choice. The big advantage here: Karanak is not a leader

On 4/4/2019 at 5:58 PM, fwlr said:

Surely if you take skullreapers you will just want wrathmongers instead because of how good they can buff up the thirsters?

As others have mentioned it's extremely hard for Wrathmongers to actually keep up with Bloodthirsters.

In addition the biggest advantage of Skullreapers to me really is that they don't need that much dedicated support, maby a single 80 point support here and you're good to go. Another big advantage they bring is having a decent armour save that can be buffed up.

Pretty much the only support I do really like for Bloodthirsters is;  more Bloodthirsters and Fleshhounds for screening. 

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I had a 2,000 point game tonight. I decided to run Bloodmad Warband. I went against a Gore Pilgrims list, so another Khorne player. It was on the map Escalation. He wont 5 victory points to my 3. I'll write my observations down below, and since both lists were Khorne, it's basically double the testing and double the learning. 

- I don't know what to think of Slaughterpriests. They're in a weird place. Tonight my opponent straight up had one camping on his altar, and had one follow his group. On the charge his group got out of range, and the other one was so far back it did nothing. Without re-rolls they're trash, I don't think the one that ran away from the altar did anything all game. It just failed every prayer and judgement summon. 

- My Slaughterpriests were within my Altar, and had re-rolls and got so many buffs off. However he charged me first and pinned me into my deployment zone due to how the terrain etc was so I couldn't kill my way out fast enough to tag any objectives so I lost. My Slaughterpriests out-performed his by like 4x, but also it was because everything was wholly within my territory but I lost the game sooooo....if the objectives AREN'T in your territory and the enemy has NO reason to come to you.....Slaughterpriests suck? I don't know. It's extremely frustrating being tied to the Altar which can't move. If you want re-rolls you more or less have 24'' inch buff bubble and once people run out of that no support, or just hope for good prayers. I say 24'' because wholly within 8'' circle around altar and another 16'' extending from the priest. 

- Judgements did nothing. For either of us. Neither of us got the axe off the entire game out of probably 4 tries between us. I got the Bleeding Icon out and it did I don't know a total of 4ish mortal wounds across the time it was out and flying around. They're super short range (16'' total threat range), hard to get off, and are they worth it? I may do 1 or 2 more games but I'm thinking no, they're pretty ******. Once again, only if your opponent comes TO YOU are they worthwhile for the reliable re-rolls and such. Otherwise they're probably not coming out and if they do it's still only a 16'' threat range. 

- Bloodreavers are still garbage. What a ****** waste of space. I hate these. I hate they're mandatory for Bloodmad. I just hate them. They're trash. They should be 10 points or free. Holy ****** I can't stand these things. 20 of mine killed 10 of his out of 40. His 30 fought back with 3 attacks each and killed 15 of my 20. Then they came in and killed maybe 3 Blood Warriors before they got wiped. All 60 Bloodreavers between us were gone by top of turn 2. Just what is the ****** point. 

- Mighty Skullcrushers are great. I didn't use them, but he used them on me and got the charge off. They did 9 mortal wounds (A unit of 6) which is 3 Brutes, 3 Wrathmongers or Skullreapers, 4 and a half Blood Warriors, 4 and a half 'Ardboyz, 9 Bloodreavers, Goblins, Skeletons, Graveguard, etc... It's just rock solid. Then all of their attacks. Then all their hoof attacks. Then they took THREE ROUNDS to fully die. They just sat there. They're really hitting hard on a charge as like a 1 time hammer and then they just TAAAANK. They're like a hammer and anvil in 1. They're pretty cool. Big like from me. 

- Blood Warriors are... fine. They're actually pretty killy if you go whole hog and give them everything. Give them all the attack buffs, give them Killing Frenzy, give them Bronzed Flesh, Whip them and they really honestly can do big work. Unbuffed they're...fine. They don't kill especially much, they die kind of easy, but they always get at least an attack in. I wish I had run Gorefists I think. I just don't know how many of those re-rolling 1's to hit really translated to real life wounds. The mortal wounds are just there. I think for an Anvil (how I am using them) the Gorefist is the way to go honestly. It's hard to tell but my gut is saying after 2 games with Axes, Gorefists are probably the way to go. 

- My Mighty Lord of Khorne whiffed so hard. He had 7 attacks with his main axe and only 1 whole attack got all the way through. That was tragic. I don't think he sucks. I'm just sad he ate the dirt so hard. 

- My Skullreapers destroyed. After all my Bloodreavers, and all 30 of my Blood Warriors are gone my Skullreapers went on to kill: 1 Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut, 1 Soulgrinder, 14 Blood Warriors, 10 Bloodletters, 1 Slaughterpriest. I believe that's 930 points. They straight up did about 55 damage (wounds) because I remembered my 6's of mortal wounds, plus I had them in a unit of 10 Killing Frenzy, Bronze Flesh, Whipped. They were re-rolling hits on the Bloodletters (10) and Blood Warriors (15 total), not the Lord or Soulgrinder, but they 1 shot those either way. They SHREDDED. It's possible they really may still be an absolute hammer. They alone deleted half his army after my warriors and reavers did jack ******. 

- Bloodmad Battalion. I don't know. I got 2 charges off and the extra attacks were fine, but like I said HE charged ME first and pinned me in and I got basically little to no benefit from the battalion the majority of the battle. Out of 4 whole battle rounds I benefited 2 or 3 whole times. I genuinely don't know if it was worth the 160 points. I could have taken Wrathmongers (I didn't) and possibly gained the same amount? Matter of fact, BECAUSE I was charged and they'd have just been there, all my guys (and..his?) would have gotten +1 attack. I'm iffy on it. I just don't know what other battalion is worth a damn. I've tried Gore Pilgrims (its fine), Skulltake (I still like it, just trying stuff out), Slaughterborn (didn't love it), Bloodmad (Idk how to feel) now, and I want to try Bloodforged. 

- I don't have a TL;DR I was just writing what I thought about what I saw. Soulgrinder didn't do anything, it goes far, has some shooting, but my Skullreapers absolutely nuked it before it got to do anything. I summoned a Bloodthirster turn 4 who didn't do anything. Maybe I could have spent my bloodtithe wiser instead of banking 8. 

- Considering running something to farm bloodtithe be it command traits, artifacts or prayers. It just seems like it comes in SO SLOW now. 

- Considering buying Daemons and running some sort of Mixed majority Daemon list. 

- Considering a trifecta of Wrath of Khorne BT, Bloodmaster, Skulltaker, and 30 bloodletters for a hammer. Combo would be Bloodletters +1 to hit (20+), re-roll all hits (WKBT CA), re-roll wound rolls of 1 (Skulltaker CA), Immediately attack 2nd (Bloodmaster with Halo + CA). Support would be Slaughterpriests (Killing Frenzy, Bronzed Flesh) and Bloodsecrator + Wrathmongers (+2 attacks yee.) 

- The above but with Reapers and running Khartoth the Bloodhunger on Bloodmaster + CA of Reapers for immediately activate Bloodletters then fight again, but only 50/50 if it's your opponents turn, whereas the other is guaranteed (unless they also have a thing with fight first). 

- Would run Flesh Hounds 2x5 Fleshhounds and probably 1x6 Bloodcrushers for the other hammer and objective grabbers. 

- Don't have Daemons yet so will need 2 start collecting boxes, wrath and rapture and a bloodthirster (Wrath of Khorne) 

Great write up man! Just some reflections and thoughts from me as feedback, hope you like it!

- Slaughterpriests are really just there for support and yeah I will say there is a tactical use to the Altar of Skulls that can easily be missed. First of all I see absolutely no reason to ever put one on top of it. There is no additional gain for that. On top of that, I think it's very important to place if very close to the center of the table as this is where Khorne armies will have their most units focused anyway (due to speed etc). 
I also fully agree with you that Slaughterpriests without re-rolls arn't good, but what it's ever more important is to keep track of the bubbles. It's how Khorne works now and the biggest difference in how we used to work. It doesn't apply to Slaughterpriests alone, it applies to everything, so continue to meassure and continue to move around with the Slaughterpriest.

- Key for all Khorne armies to focus upon with this edition is to have units who force your opponent to come to you, or be stuck. As explained in the previous post, Khorne now very much revolves around, Hammes, Anvils and Support. Most of that support should translate to 'ranged support'. Be it in Khorne Judgment form (cheap but not extrmely reliable) or Skullcannon form (costs stack up quickly).
While some might dislike it, the Skullcannon is a serious tool to be used now. I got my 3rd one for a reason, and it isn't because I'm such a fan of the model, it's because we need to draw out opponents. We lost speed.

- Agree completely on Bloodreavers. Have discussed this with others too. They arn't worth the cost, 70 for 10 is doable because it's 70 points. There isn't a single reason to ever run more. What they lack (in my opinion) is a simple rule that would make them immume to Battleshock once they number 20+.

- As long as Juggernauts can charge they have one hammer turn. Assuming opponents know what they do, they remain great Anvils ;) .

- Agree completely on Blood Warriors. To me Gorefists are the way to go because despite their double axe option their quality remains their number for cost and anvil properties. MW on an anvil is what we like, and they don't even have to charge for it. 10 for 200 with Gorefists and Goreglaive and Champ is a perfect deal.

- I personally don't think the Mighty Lord of Khorne is all too interesting these days, but you can offcourse include him. To me the big question always remained, what purpose does he serve now? We're paying enough here, why arn't we using a Slaughterpriest instead etc. Especially with the hosts and their great Command Abilities there is just less use for heroes who don't support too much. Funny enough I'd even say that a lot of the 80 point heroes support better as the Mighty Lord of Khorne or Khorne Lord on Juggernaut does...

- Yeah I love Skullreapers. Where with Blood Warriors I love the number 10 on them, I love that exact same number on Skullreapers. They are easy to boost, easy to make amazing and being armoured Bloodletters is just really good with every host. Only Reapers of Vengeance has no real reason to thake them and that's it :) 

- We have quite some Battalions who are good. Only thing I would say here is that none of them are 'broken' but they are just good additions. As we have no option to 1 drop anyway (or make a great 2 drop) I'm also going to try out many and then some lists without.

- Sad to see the Soulgrinder not doing anything. Thing is still (same with Skullcannons) that I would play him up rather aggressively. I think the biggest mistake Khorne players make is keep some units back. While we really don't need to, unless it's for objective reasons. 

+ Consider Skullcannon(s).

+ Certainly get some Daemons, even 10 Bloodletters, 5 Fleshhounds and a Bloodthirster are a great start.

+ Tyrants of Blood certainly can be amazing, if your opponent runs minimal shooting, your almost bound to win that game aswell. 

+ Double fighting with Bloodletters is incredible, the thing with Daemon Battalions is that I have created a lot of lists who aim to include them and you usually find that there is no room for them AND a Battalion...

+ Big fan of Fleshhounds, not that huge on Bloodcrushers (see Skullcannon) and indeed certainly get some additional Daemons! In reality the summonning isn't always the best choice anymore (due to not being able to spend BT for summonning like we used to).

All in all try to include a Anvil, Hammer and ranged Support for Khorne and you should be good. As mentioned I don't think Khorne Judgements are always needed. The Hexgorger Skulls are always an easy inclusion however this too depends on your meta and basically how much Magic you expect. It usually is there, it's easy to cast meaning you can usually miss the 40 points.

Cheers,

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4 hours ago, MOMUS said:

Got a tournament coming up so have been trying to bash out a list with some competitive games.

Anyone else feel like they're playing by different rules checking units are wholly within, while other players still snake back models for buffs.

Anyway got two bloodthirsters and a bunch of daemons, really not getting mileage out of karanak, going to try skarr instead. His ability to be summoned probably better tans harder to counter than free unit of dogs ability.

Tell us how Skarr goes! I’m really curious about him. Maybe try a Bloodforged with him? As for Bloodthirsters, what are you gonna build them as? Are you building for Tyranrs of Blood? 

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4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I had a 2,000 point game tonight. I decided to run Bloodmad Warband. I went against a Gore Pilgrims list, so another Khorne player. It was on the map Escalation. He wont 5 victory points to my 3. I'll write my observations down below, and since both lists were Khorne, it's basically double the testing and double the learning. 

- I don't know what to think of Slaughterpriests. They're in a weird place. Tonight my opponent straight up had one camping on his altar, and had one follow his group. On the charge his group got out of range, and the other one was so far back it did nothing. Without re-rolls they're trash, I don't think the one that ran away from the altar did anything all game. It just failed every prayer and judgement summon. 

- My Slaughterpriests were within my Altar, and had re-rolls and got so many buffs off. However he charged me first and pinned me into my deployment zone due to how the terrain etc was so I couldn't kill my way out fast enough to tag any objectives so I lost. My Slaughterpriests out-performed his by like 4x, but also it was because everything was wholly within my territory but I lost the game sooooo....if the objectives AREN'T in your territory and the enemy has NO reason to come to you.....Slaughterpriests suck? I don't know. It's extremely frustrating being tied to the Altar which can't move. If you want re-rolls you more or less have 24'' inch buff bubble and once people run out of that no support, or just hope for good prayers. I say 24'' because wholly within 8'' circle around altar and another 16'' extending from the priest. 

- Judgements did nothing. For either of us. Neither of us got the axe off the entire game out of probably 4 tries between us. I got the Bleeding Icon out and it did I don't know a total of 4ish mortal wounds across the time it was out and flying around. They're super short range (16'' total threat range), hard to get off, and are they worth it? I may do 1 or 2 more games but I'm thinking no, they're pretty ******. Once again, only if your opponent comes TO YOU are they worthwhile for the reliable re-rolls and such. Otherwise they're probably not coming out and if they do it's still only a 16'' threat range. 

- Bloodreavers are still garbage. What a ****** waste of space. I hate these. I hate they're mandatory for Bloodmad. I just hate them. They're trash. They should be 10 points or free. Holy ****** I can't stand these things. 20 of mine killed 10 of his out of 40. His 30 fought back with 3 attacks each and killed 15 of my 20. Then they came in and killed maybe 3 Blood Warriors before they got wiped. All 60 Bloodreavers between us were gone by top of turn 2. Just what is the ****** point. 

- Mighty Skullcrushers are great. I didn't use them, but he used them on me and got the charge off. They did 9 mortal wounds (A unit of 6) which is 3 Brutes, 3 Wrathmongers or Skullreapers, 4 and a half Blood Warriors, 4 and a half 'Ardboyz, 9 Bloodreavers, Goblins, Skeletons, Graveguard, etc... It's just rock solid. Then all of their attacks. Then all their hoof attacks. Then they took THREE ROUNDS to fully die. They just sat there. They're really hitting hard on a charge as like a 1 time hammer and then they just TAAAANK. They're like a hammer and anvil in 1. They're pretty cool. Big like from me. 

- Blood Warriors are... fine. They're actually pretty killy if you go whole hog and give them everything. Give them all the attack buffs, give them Killing Frenzy, give them Bronzed Flesh, Whip them and they really honestly can do big work. Unbuffed they're...fine. They don't kill especially much, they die kind of easy, but they always get at least an attack in. I wish I had run Gorefists I think. I just don't know how many of those re-rolling 1's to hit really translated to real life wounds. The mortal wounds are just there. I think for an Anvil (how I am using them) the Gorefist is the way to go honestly. It's hard to tell but my gut is saying after 2 games with Axes, Gorefists are probably the way to go. 

- My Mighty Lord of Khorne whiffed so hard. He had 7 attacks with his main axe and only 1 whole attack got all the way through. That was tragic. I don't think he sucks. I'm just sad he ate the dirt so hard. 

- My Skullreapers destroyed. After all my Bloodreavers, and all 30 of my Blood Warriors are gone my Skullreapers went on to kill: 1 Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut, 1 Soulgrinder, 14 Blood Warriors, 10 Bloodletters, 1 Slaughterpriest. I believe that's 930 points. They straight up did about 55 damage (wounds) because I remembered my 6's of mortal wounds, plus I had them in a unit of 10 Killing Frenzy, Bronze Flesh, Whipped. They were re-rolling hits on the Bloodletters (10) and Blood Warriors (15 total), not the Lord or Soulgrinder, but they 1 shot those either way. They SHREDDED. It's possible they really may still be an absolute hammer. They alone deleted half his army after my warriors and reavers did jack ******. 

- Bloodmad Battalion. I don't know. I got 2 charges off and the extra attacks were fine, but like I said HE charged ME first and pinned me in and I got basically little to no benefit from the battalion the majority of the battle. Out of 4 whole battle rounds I benefited 2 or 3 whole times. I genuinely don't know if it was worth the 160 points. I could have taken Wrathmongers (I didn't) and possibly gained the same amount? Matter of fact, BECAUSE I was charged and they'd have just been there, all my guys (and..his?) would have gotten +1 attack. I'm iffy on it. I just don't know what other battalion is worth a damn. I've tried Gore Pilgrims (its fine), Skulltake (I still like it, just trying stuff out), Slaughterborn (didn't love it), Bloodmad (Idk how to feel) now, and I want to try Bloodforged. 

- I don't have a TL;DR I was just writing what I thought about what I saw. Soulgrinder didn't do anything, it goes far, has some shooting, but my Skullreapers absolutely nuked it before it got to do anything. I summoned a Bloodthirster turn 4 who didn't do anything. Maybe I could have spent my bloodtithe wiser instead of banking 8. 

- Considering running something to farm bloodtithe be it command traits, artifacts or prayers. It just seems like it comes in SO SLOW now. 

- Considering buying Daemons and running some sort of Mixed majority Daemon list. 

- Considering a trifecta of Wrath of Khorne BT, Bloodmaster, Skulltaker, and 30 bloodletters for a hammer. Combo would be Bloodletters +1 to hit (20+), re-roll all hits (WKBT CA), re-roll wound rolls of 1 (Skulltaker CA), Immediately attack 2nd (Bloodmaster with Halo + CA). Support would be Slaughterpriests (Killing Frenzy, Bronzed Flesh) and Bloodsecrator + Wrathmongers (+2 attacks yee.) 

- The above but with Reapers and running Khartoth the Bloodhunger on Bloodmaster + CA of Reapers for immediately activate Bloodletters then fight again, but only 50/50 if it's your opponents turn, whereas the other is guaranteed (unless they also have a thing with fight first). 

- Would run Flesh Hounds 2x5 Fleshhounds and probably 1x6 Bloodcrushers for the other hammer and objective grabbers. 

- Don't have Daemons yet so will need 2 start collecting boxes, wrath and rapture and a bloodthirster (Wrath of Khorne) 

I agree with your sentiments honestly. The skull Altar is a bit meh for me, at least with gore Pilgrims your priests could be a lot more free. I think the main strength of our priests now is that they can effectively chant 3 prayers a phase at a cheap cost. In terms of prayers, I might even give mine Blood Sacrifice so they don’t have to bother about buffing units, just shank a fellow priest for blood Tithe, maybe let Second priest have resanguination to heal himself and keep getting stabbed all game. It’s hard to get off  Bronzed flesh or killing frenzy on your units, who tend to be spread out. 

Bloodreavers; agree, I feel they should be cheaper for their points. We can’t rely on them as hammers anymore. I’ve been having success using them as screens and annoying objective holders and sacrificial units. They can’t tarpit at all, but they’re our cheapest for trading. The best we can do is throw lots of buffs on some reavers and let them die, and hope they killed as much as possible. I still like the fact that they have rend, allows them to punch quite decently above their weight (compared to skeletons imo). Killing frenzy+Bloodstoker+Warshrine makes an interesting suicide missile unit. 

I feel blood Warriors are very good now. They are super receptive to buffs, they get surprisingly damaging when buffed, they can tank decently and that gorefist counter punch as incredibly useful. My blood warriors have carried really well.  Anything that throws a LOT of attacks hates these guys. My brother’s grimghasts crumple against the warriors. Tzaangor Enlightened also hate these guys. No respite makes their buffs really good , because you’re effectively getting twice the mileage out of it. My lads have done good work so far. Methinks they’re solid even against Morsarr Guard or evocators charge.

Mighty Skullcrushers have so far been actually worth taking. Like you said, they’re basically a big paperweight that  takes forever to shift, and still does decent damage. Ok, not a lot, but their new changes makes them actually hit decently, unlike last time where they effectively had pillows. 

Skullreapers are actually imo arguably better than before. They cant do mortal wound spam as much as before, but now they don’t eat buffs every turn. They’re incredibly self sufficient. Throw them at the right units, maybe give them reroll wound rolls of 1 (Juggerlord or goretide), watch the skulls fly. Plus, the icon changes have actually saved my bacon multiple times, allowing them to make crucial charges. Also, attack buffs for the skulseeker with his mutation are kinda scary with rerolls to hit and wound. 

In terms of battalions, i’d Say the bloodmad’s greatest strength is the reapers. Them getting an extra attack is very nice, Blood Warriors as well. Reavers... not so much, but if they’re buffed by the secrator (I’ve had my reavers bubble wrap and protect my secrator before). Add in aspiring Deathbringer, and that’s another attack. Admittedly, you won’t always get charges, but you’ve got so many units there that at least some are bound to make those charges. 

As  far as daemons are concerned, flesh Hounds are kinda meh for me. Losing locus was a huge pain, and their damage is a bit low. 4+ to wound, and Bloodstoker can’t buff them anymore. However, like you said, I feel they make good objective grabbers. They’re decently fast, and the 30 inch unbind range means they can contribute unbind from A LONGGG DISTANCE. 

Bloodcrushers are a nice hammer. I haven’t tested them too much yet.

I’m gonna Test the Blood Throne out a bit , I’m curious to see whether the changes, it’s got a new special rule, make it good. 

Edited by Kaz
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24 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Tell us how Skarr goes! I’m really curious about him. Maybe try a Bloodforged with him? As for Bloodthirsters, what are you gonna build them as? Are you building for Tyranrs of Blood? 

Skarr was fairly decent in the old book, now his summon restriction is gone so he's a good tactical piece. Suicide him in and then summon behind enemy lines/on objective. The as he's a hero summon daemon units off him to charge the enemy backfield.

bloodthirsters are unfettered fury and wrath of khorne, not optimal but already built from long ago. 

Currently running reapers of vengeance, the unfettered fury with doppleganger cloak. So he can charge in, not be attacked until he attacks (twice) and then the turn after the enemy can't flee. Think it's a good tactical choice but need to try learn how to get most out of it.

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34 minutes ago, Kaz said:

As  far as daemons are concerned, flesh Hounds are kinda meh for me. Losing locus was a huge pain, and their damage is a bit low. 4+ to wound, and Bloodstoker can’t buff them anymore. However, like you said, I feel they make good objective grabbers. They’re decently fast, and the 30 inch unbind range means they can contribute unbind from A LONGGG DISTANCE. 

Bloodcrushers are a nice hammer. I haven’t tested them too much yet.

I’m gonna Test the Blood Throne out a bit , I’m curious to see whether the changes, it’s got a new special rule, make it good. 

I largely agree with you, much of the above is indeed a similar vision ;) 

On the Fleshhounds however I do agree that losing focus is a bit of a downside, at the same time however I think they are still very good and Battleline, which wasn't the case before either. The Bloodstoker and Wrath of Khorne Command Ability indeed are losses to this army, but it's because of this that ranged support feels so important. I do not really feel Slaughterpriests are stuck to the altar. To me it just means that early game there is no risk to them and lategame there might be, but it's worth the effort. They last a lot longer now, also when they randomly roll a 1.

Let us know what your experience with the Blood Throne is, I'm interested in that. To me it seems the Skullmaster is just better, even though he has a lower wound count. To me the impact of him seems more usefull allround. I don't think the Blood Throne is worth the cost, I wish they would have given it a Blood Blessing. 

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What's the current opinion on the Blood host? I don't have multiple of the same units to run blood hunt or bloodthunder stampede atm, however I have enough demons to run a list that looks like this:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne (120)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
Slaughterpriest (100)

-killing frenzy
30 x Bloodletters (300)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
3 x Bloodcrushers (140)
1 x Skull Cannons (140)
1 x Skull Cannons (140)
1 x Skull Cannons (140)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
Blood Host (180)
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

It's 4 drops, but the 180 pts for re-roll charges is a bit painful, especially as the bloodletters and flesh hounds don't benefit from it.

I've mostly taken it to get the cloak on the 'thirster and for the extra command point.  With the miniatures I own, it's the only battalion I can build. 

 

C+c welcome, my club shouldn't be hyper-competitive, but what should I keep an eye out for?

 

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@medivouk looks like a fun list to me, do wish you could get some more bodies in there, but it is what it is for this particular Battalion. If your club isn't hyper competitive I think your generally ready to go. I don't think you really need/want that third Skullcannon. A lot of this list also hinges on that Bloodletter bomb. Everytime I start a Daemon heavy list I turn to Tyrants of Blood or skip the Battalion so I can include two units of Bloodletters. So feel free to let us know how it went down. 

 

Edited by Killax

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Reading a lot of "Anvil" and "Hammer" and I only tenuously grasp it. Can some one educate me on the concept, please? 

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7 minutes ago, Wraith01 said:

Reading a lot of "Anvil" and "Hammer" and I only tenuously grasp it. Can some one educate me on the concept, please? 

An 'anvil' is a highly durable unit that can soak up the hits fron the enemy but does little of the damage in your army whilst a 'hammer' hits hard but is usually fairly fragile.

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So, today's games.

First, my army:

Spoiler

 

Skullfiend Tribe

Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut 160

-Artifact: Gorecleaver

Exalted Deathbringer 80

-Artifact: Crowncleaver (+2A)

Bloodsecrator 140

Bloodstoker 80

Slaughterpriest 100

10 Bloodreavers 70

-Meatripper Axes

5 Blood Warriors 100

-Gorefists

15 Blood Warriors 300

-Gorefists

Mighty Skullcrushers 180

-Glaives

Khorgorath 100

Khorgorath 100

Skullreapers 180

Skullreapers 180

Slaughterborn batallion 180

Hex Skulls 40

1990 / 2000

Beastmen: My opponent played an unorthodox list with Shaggoth as a general, 6+3 Enlightened on discs, and 15-20 Razorgors (!). The razorgors were rarely more than a nuisance though. He ran up to the middle objective (we played Focal Points) on the first turn with two of them and 6 Enlightened, who killed most things that I threw at them - 3-4 Skullreapers, Juggerlord and Exalted Deathbringer all fell to them thanks to my crappy save rolls. I had also made the mistake to place the Khorne Altar in such a way that it blocked much of my entrance to the middle objective. At the end of turn 3 (points 8-10 in his favour) things started to look more in my favour though, I had killed a dozen razorgors, blocked off or neutralized most of his summonings (Bloodreavers earned their upkeep by hugging the back field since turn 1), and started to push towards one of his objectives with my largely intact 15 man Blood Warrior unit. We had to call it at that point since he had to leave, but I think I could've snagged the victory had we continued. 

Death: He got a pretty mean first turn where 5 Knights and the Vampire on Dragon charged in on my right flank. I managed to keep the objective there until turn 2 though. On my left flank I charged 20 skeletons with my 15 Blood warriors, however they were pretty crippled by the -2 to hit spell and didn't do much (also wasn't able to put Bronzed flesh on them, see below). They got eaten up by Skeletons, Arkhan and Curse of Years basically. My Juggerlord ran up to some Graveguard and summoned 10 bloodletters behind them, capping the objective. Turn 3 I got a double turn and managed to blood boil the Dragon (which was at 9 wounds), this brought him down to 4 wounds and my Exalted Deathbringer could then move in and finish him with his 7 base attacks. Boom! I also capped his other objective with my Skullcrushers, bringing me back into the game. I had wiped most of his army but on his turn he got 40 skellies, 10 Graveyeards and 5 black knights back and managed to retake one of his objectives and cap one of mine with his knights, using some pretty liberal/creative piling moves. Undead players are quite adept at that in general, I find.  We had to call it at turn 3 again, not sure how it would've ended if we had kept going but at this point it was an exact draw (we had some extra points criteria as he was prepping for a tournament).

Thoughts/lessons: 

-Deploy the characters AFTER all the units are out, in particular the Bloodstoker and Slaughterpriest. This may sound like noob advice, and I am by no means a very experienced player, however it needs to be underscored since the bubbles are so tight now. And goddamnit, plan a turn ahead.

-Make sure you don't cripple yourself when you deploy the Altar ;) consider the objectives. 

-Maybe Goretide is better after all. Hurts to say since my army is from Ghur fluffwise, however there were many points where I saw the potential for the Goretide abilities.

-Juggerlord might be better off with more attacks (such as Mark of the Destroyer) than the Gorecleaver. When he wounds with a 6 it's cool, but he only has 3 attacks. 5 Attacks base could make for more reliable dmg output. 

-Slaughterborn, still my fav batallion. 

Edited by Bjornas
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While the previous book felt like it was about stacking buffs onto something to make it ultimate blender this one feels like it's about taking punchy things that are good on their own and just punch with them more often through the various double fight and pseudo double fight abilities.

Like why even buff reapers,  thirsters or crushers when they already do everything from allegiance+battalion alone? The only ones who scale well off buffs are the battleline dudes: warriors and letters.

 

If only we weren't so damn slow. Feels like either thirsters, goretide warriors or cannons+mongers are mandatory. Maybe use chaos knights?

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19 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

While the previous book felt like it was about stacking buffs onto something to make it ultimate blender this one feels like it's about taking punchy things that are good on their own and just punch with them more often through the various double fight and pseudo double fight abilities.

Like why even buff reapers,  thirsters or crushers when they already do everything from allegiance+battalion alone? The only ones who scale well off buffs are the battleline dudes: warriors and letters.

FEC and SCE double activation is a lot easier to pull off.

You got it backwards with the buffs, we have to go for self-sufficient units because Khorne buffs got weaker and/or buffing range is pretty unforgiving now. 

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I’ve still found buffing those units to be worthwhile myself though. Buffed Skullreapers like I said took down 930 points for only 360. I only lost 4 and they even did some damage on the way out with lucky 5+ explosions. 

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