AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Kaldanesh]

1 minute ago, AresX8 said:

Correct, it's every unmodified wound roll of 6.

Thank you for the quick reply.  This happened in my game last night.  I only applied 4 mortal wounds to the other unit affected as I wasn't sure.  Good to know!  Somebody needs a nice paint job then!

[Louzi]

2 hours ago, Bululu said:

i think he means you loose the command trait and thats all

Sry, I still dont get it. I found this on 1d4chan:

A note regarding the above: Your general does not have to be from any of the above to take the general trait, but if he is than he MUST take it. That means no named heroes can be your general and get a keyword (Korghos Khul being the exception since he has the Goretide keyword). You MUST use the Slaughterhost's Artifact of Power (your general doesn't have to), and only that Slaughterhost's Hero can use it (so no giving your Goretide hero the Skullfiend Tribe's Artifact).

So...Khul can get general trait or not?

[Ravinsild]

6 minutes ago, Louzi said:

Sry, I still dont get it. I found this on 1d4chan:

A note regarding the above: Your general does not have to be from any of the above to take the general trait, but if he is than he MUST take it. That means no named heroes can be your general and get a keyword (Korghos Khul being the exception since he has the Goretide keyword). You MUST use the Slaughterhost's Artifact of Power (your general doesn't have to), and only that Slaughterhost's Hero can use it (so no giving your Goretide hero the Skullfiend Tribe's Artifact).

So...Khul can get general trait or not?

No. Named characters never get a command trait. Skarbrand, Skar Bloodwrath, Valkya, Skulltaker, etc... never get any command traits. They're too special. 

The biggest thing people can do for themselves is literally read the core rules once or twice all the way through. Then again every few months to stay sharp, and to be able to reference rules when asked. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Ravinsild

[relic456]

Yeah, so Khul doesn't receive the special Command Trait (Hew the Foe: +1 Damage to general's melee weapons) from being the general of a Goretide Slaughterhost army.  The trade off is that if he is your general, you're allowed to use his Warscroll Command Ability (Lord of the Goretide: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for GORETIDE units wholly within 16").

[Gash Bauer]

I had played a game this weekend past against Beasts and honestly Khul might have been the mvp out of my lists (barring a min reaver blades unit that by sheer luck crucially killed a whole unit of 10 bestigor that had ambushed me)  The 8 inch pile in was amazing at keeping my opponent contained in the combats.  His pile in moves and general charge positioning was by his admission affected by Khul even being around.  I was hesitant about taking him since he couldn't get hew the foe, but I think I'm going to take him in every game now.  He just has so much going for him in a Goretide list.

On a general tactica note I was quite happy my list didn't have to change much based on my first foray into the new book.  I still really like Gore Pilgrims, as the secreator buff is still really good, and between him being in the middle with my altar I believe I stopped at least 4 spells from going off before unbind attempts. (Extreme luck so not a good metric to go off but it was really fun)  I absolutely love Goretide Blood Warriors though!  Having them re-roll ones to wound near the objectives in battle for the pass was amazing and I rolled a fair few sixes for saves as well.  At the semi competitive/casual level my store plays at I'm feeling way happier about the changes in this book.

[Louzi]

2 hours ago, relic456 said:

Yeah, so Khul doesn't receive the special Command Trait (Hew the Foe: +1 Damage to general's melee weapons) from being the general of a Goretide Slaughterhost army.  The trade off is that if he is your general, you're allowed to use his Warscroll Command Ability (Lord of the Goretide: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for GORETIDE units wholly within 16").

So I can use the command ability from the goretide with Khul to let the blood warriors run and charge + his own command ability?

[relic456]

Just now, Louzi said:

So I can use the command ability from the goretide with Khul to let the blood warriors run and charge + his own command ability?

Yup, the run and charge command ability granted by the Goretide Slaughterhost is given to all heroes in your army.

[Xasz]

31 minutes ago, Gash Bauer said:

At the semi competitive/casual level my store plays at I'm feeling way happier about the changes in this book.

I think that's what most of the last 50 (?) pages boil down to, the book is really great with all the clean-ups and new stuff for casual and probably even semi-competitive players, while being downright depressing for the competitive crowd.

 

11 minutes ago, relic456 said:

Yup, the run and charge command ability granted by the Goretide Slaughterhost is given to all heroes in your army.

I'm probably blind, where does it say that all heroes get this?

[relic456]

1 minute ago, Xasz said:

I'm probably blind, where does it say that all heroes get this?

Blades of Khorne Battletome, Page 70, Slaughterhosts: "...If you choose one from the below, all units with that keyword benefit from the extra abilities listed for that Slaughterhost on the page indicated."

Core Rules, Page 3, Command Abilities: "If you have any HEROES in your army, you can use command abilities"

Hope that explains it! 

[Battlefury]

25 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I think that's what most of the last 50 (?) pages boil down to, the book is really great with all the clean-ups and new stuff for casual and probably even semi-competitive players, while being downright depressing for the competitive crowd.

I agree with you 100%.

The thing is, that beside Tyrants of Blood, wich is a one hit wonder list, there is barely anything that will be viable for tournaments. I am absolutely into tournaments, that's how I do the hobby entirely.

does anyone maybe have an idea for viable lists beside Tyrants? I am afraid, that even that list might be not competetive anymore, as soon as the enemy knows, what that list does. And since it is pretty much the same in its core each time, it would be easy of other players to just figure out how to deal with it.

[Kaldanesh]

So I am a relatively new player with a sizable collection of Khorne mortals and daemons.  This is the list I am building towards right now.   I still need to build most of the blood warriors as I only have 10 built so far.  I ran Gore Pilgrims last night and while it did ok, the bloodmad warband just seems the better choice. I like the idea of running more Blood Reavers in principle but they just died like crazy against my usual Skaven opponent, and  Blood warriors are simply excellent. I feel like I will be missing the second slaughterpriest with this list so I may need to find a way to sneak him in somewhere.    Thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut (160)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe 
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc 
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
- Artefact: The Skull-helm of Khorne 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
6 x Mighty Skullcrushers (360)
- Bloodglaives

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 2x Soultearers

Battalions
Bloodmad Warband (160)

Endless Spells
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 144
 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Kaldanesh

[mastercrafted]

Something they touched on in the facehammer podcast, is that this is almost like the finished version of the battletome. While the previous one was like the final draft? I think ours is the first one to reach this state, and until the other books get their final version then things might be a bit unbalanced. Things could look very different in 12 months time

[Xasz]

35 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

does anyone maybe have an idea for viable lists beside Tyrants?

Concerning daemons, their battalions besides Tyrants are rather boring. Haven't really thought about the cannon battalion, for me it is ugliest model in Khorne and probably Chaos as a whole (and I don't buy models I find repulsive, no matter the rules)

For mortals, in a competitive setting we are pretty much left with Bloodmad Warband and Slaugtherborn. Maybe it's time for something out of the box thinking. How about 2x30 Blood Warriors in Slaughterborn? Considering the speed bonus of Goretide, you might be able to just park them on top of objectives and chill. You would end up with just 3 heroes (prolly Exalted DB, Secrator and Stoker) or you could play one block and go for a nice hero package. A compromise between both with 3x15 BWs and hero package/axe prayer might be interesting too. BWs are notoriously annoying to remove, especially for other melee armies. Maybe it's worth exploring?!

 

[Sigwarus]

Someone asked for a tournament list. Here is my take on it

Unfettered Bloodthirster

General, strikes first item

Priest 

Priest 

BloodSecrator 

30 bloodletters 

10 blood reavers 

5 blood warriors 

6 blood chrushers 

3 skullcannons

5 wrathmongers 

Hexagorger 

Good against FEC meta with cannons, impacts. Blessings and 6" pile in. 

Im trying to make it an alcomers list. Suggestions? Critics? 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Sigwarus list has potential however;

The skull cannon/wrathmonger combo is powerful but they need a daemon hero nearby to reroll 1's to hit. A cheap 80 point Bloodmaster will solve this as the Bloodthirster has more important things to do. 

Hard to imagine Blood Crushers are a competitive choice. The charge damage is nice when you get it but other then that they dont do much damage and dont have much staying power. Perhaps a better use for the 280 points is 10 x flesh hounds and a bloodmaster to buff the cannons?

[Kaz]

Hello lads, just asking, I actually am looking to try fitting one bloodthirster into my lists (I know, it's heresy, but budget hates me, and real life keeps coming back to poke me, even while taking the skulls of my enemies), hence, out of all 3 Bloodthirsters, what are everyone's thoughts on them? And while yes, I will eventually get the Tyrants of Blood, I'm gonna do it SLOWLY, so I don't have to go street busking once I've bought all of them.

So what do y'all think? Which is the best to take if you can only take one? In what circumstances could the others be better? Is the Unfettered Fury command ability exploit a little cheesy? Is the Wrath of Khorne still king? Is the Insensate Rage now worth it, for both beer and pretzels (And exploding armies), and his incredible points cost?

Also, Ar'gath on Insensate Rage, then hunt down heroes, give him extra attacks and laugh maniacally.

[Rivener]

Magnetize him! That’s what i’m doing right now.

In terms of gameplay IR hits the hardest if you buff him properly. UF has the neat trick with the running daemons that can then pile in to combat at 6”, and WoK has a killer command ability that you could pair with the Crimson Crown for maximum rerolls for free. WoK also goes great with the Reapers of Vengeance command trait for double boosted unbinds.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Rivener

[AresX8]

3 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Hello lads, just asking, I actually am looking to try fitting one bloodthirster into my lists (I know, it's heresy, but budget hates me, and real life keeps coming back to poke me, even while taking the skulls of my enemies), hence, out of all 3 Bloodthirsters, what are everyone's thoughts on them? And while yes, I will eventually get the Tyrants of Blood, I'm gonna do it SLOWLY, so I don't have to go street busking once I've bought all of them.

So what do y'all think? Which is the best to take if you can only take one? In what circumstances could the others be better? Is the Unfettered Fury command ability exploit a little cheesy? Is the Wrath of Khorne still king? Is the Insensate Rage now worth it, for both beer and pretzels (And exploding armies), and his incredible points cost?

Also, Ar'gath on Insensate Rage, then hunt down heroes, give him extra attacks and laugh maniacally.

It depends on what you want it to do.

The Insensate Rage is the biggest beatstick we have and is self sufficient outside of a source of +1 to hit.  He also does the least for the rest of the army.

The Wrath of Khorne Thirster gives a lot of support via command ability (Fish for them 6's on Bloodletters!), the Bloodflail is great, and also has an unbind. He's the best all-rounder because that's what he is, an all-rounder.

The Unfettered Fury's selling point is definitely his command ability. He can also prevent a unit from falling back with him and he does some mortal wounds via The Land Rebels, but he's all about his command ability.

As @Rivener mentioned though, magnetize the kit, so you don't have to choose!

[Agent of Chaos]

I used to say hands down Wraith of Khorne. His shooting attacks and unbind are nice but the real hero was his run & charge command ability which allowed for himself or a big blob of bloodletters to alpha strike. Now its a little unsure...

If you only take one I'm thinking probably Insensate Rage for the exploding damage potential. 

But the other 2 make for better support pieces so depends on the rest of your list.

[Draakur]

Hmmm, so Bloodcrushers are just not looking that hot then, do I have that right??

 

Where do we stand on Mighty Skullcrushers right now? Viable?

[Kaz]

38 minutes ago, Rivener said:

Magnetize him! That’s what i’m doing right now.

In terms of gameplay IR hits the hardest if you buff him properly. UF has the neat trick with the running daemons that can then pile in to combat at 6”, and WoK has a killer command ability that you could pair with the Crimson Crown for maximum rerolls for free. WoK also goes great with the Reapers of Vengeance command trait for double boosted unbinds.

That sounds interesting... though forgive me for sounding like the stereotypical Khornate barbarian, but how do you magnetize? I’m actually not sure  

35 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

It depends on what you want it to do.

The Insensate Rage is the biggest beatstick we have and is self sufficient outside of a source of +1 to hit.  He also does the least for the rest of the army.

The Wrath of Khorne Thirster gives a lot of support via command ability (Fish for them 6's on Bloodletters!), the Bloodflail is great, and also has an unbind. He's the best all-rounder because that's what he is, an all-rounder.

The Unfettered Fury's selling point is definitely his command ability. He can also prevent a unit from falling back with him and he does some mortal wounds via The Land Rebels, but he's all about his command ability.

As @Rivener mentioned though, magnetize the kit, so you don't have to choose!

So Insensate rage works for almsot any list, WoK and Unfettered Fury are much better for mostly daemon armies? 

32 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

I used to say hands down Wraith of Khorne. His shooting attacks and unbind are nice but the real hero was his run & charge command ability which allowed for himself or a big blob of bloodletters to alpha strike. Now its a little unsure...

If you only take one I'm thinking probably Insensate Rage for the exploding damage potential. 

But the other 2 make for better support pieces so depends on the rest of your list.

Do you feel the points differences make a significant difference ? Since Insensate Rage is the cheapest, but like others say, his command ability is somewhat middling, due to our Daemons having a lot of re-roll charges built into their kits, so is that a bad thing tho

[Kaz]

9 minutes ago, Draakur said:

Hmmm, so Bloodcrushers are just not looking that hot then, do I have that right??

 

Where do we stand on Mighty Skullcrushers right now? Viable?

Actually Bloodcrushers are great! Where mighty Skullcrushers cost an unholy amount of points, 9 Bloodcrushers are a LOT cheaper. 

Skullcryshers are a good roadblock/tar pit that actually has teeth, they work great with juggerlords, but usually best in units of 3. Units of 6 -9 are good, but do NOT try to buff them, it’s almost impossible due to their huge bases. Large units are great as massive roadblocks that you throw at your opponent. Few can honestly take out 30-45 wounds at a 3+ save quickly, which allows the rest of your army (focus your buffs on them) to get into position. Small units work as roadblocks, that have very sharp pointy bits. They WILL hurt. 

But don’t immediateky write off Bloodcrushers, they are cheap and very points efficient. I’d call them a budget Skullcrusher, being less durable, having a little less damage, but frankly, they work as a nice bodyguard for  bloodthirsters (big bases, can screen him, he can activate locus, etc.) 

It very much comes down to your list. If you’ve got points, and your buffs are more mortal focused, then Skullcrushers are nice. If you’ve got not that many points left, grab Bloodcrushers. The kind of buffs available doesn’t really matter too much, since you’re rarely be in range to buff them, and they’re surprisingly self-sufficient. (I love running my Bloodcrushers!) 

[Draakur]

7 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Actually Bloodcrushers are great! Where mighty Skullcrushers cost an unholy amount of points, 9 Bloodcrushers are a LOT cheaper. 

Skullcryshers are a good roadblock/tar pit that actually has teeth, they work great with juggerlords, but usually best in units of 3. Units of 6 -9 are good, but do NOT try to buff them, it’s almost impossible due to their huge bases. Large units are great as massive roadblocks that you throw at your opponent. Few can honestly take out 30-45 wounds at a 3+ save quickly, which allows the rest of your army (focus your buffs on them) to get into position. Small units work as roadblocks, that have very sharp pointy bits. They WILL hurt. 

But don’t immediateky write off Bloodcrushers, they are cheap and very points efficient. I’d call them a budget Skullcrusher, being less durable, having a little less damage, but frankly, they work as a nice bodyguard for  bloodthirsters (big bases, can screen him, he can activate locus, etc.) 

It very much comes down to your list. If you’ve got points, and your buffs are more mortal focused, then Skullcrushers are nice. If you’ve got not that many points left, grab Bloodcrushers. The kind of buffs available doesn’t really matter too much, since you’re rarely be in range to buff them, and they’re surprisingly self-sufficient. (I love running my Bloodcrushers!) 

Hmm ok, that’s not nearly as bad a verdict as I’d expected based on what I’ve read in here. Pretty cool to hear - cheers!   I guess time will tell whether they end up looking genuinely competitive 👍

[Kaz]

12 minutes ago, Draakur said:

Hmm ok, that’s not nearly as bad a verdict as I’d expected based on what I’ve read in here. Pretty cool to hear - cheers!   I guess time will tell whether they end up looking genuinely competitive 👍

I’d say just be open! Our army is not the most competitive, but I think we’ve Got a lot of hidden gems. 

[Kaz]

4 hours ago, Sigwarus said:

Someone asked for a tournament list. Here is my take on it

Unfettered Bloodthirster

General, strikes first item

Priest 

Priest 

BloodSecrator 

30 bloodletters 

10 blood reavers 

5 blood warriors 

6 blood chrushers 

3 skullcannons

5 wrathmongers 

Hexagorger 

Good against FEC meta with cannons, impacts. Blessings and 6" pile in. 

Im trying to make it an alcomers list. Suggestions? Critics? 

It’s interesting... although I’ve got some stuff to say, but my darn phone erased the stuff I wanted to write  

but heres a summary: 

I would take Reaper of Vengeance. Bloodlords is good, but I prefer with multiple bloodthirsters. Bloodthirsters make better use of the attack first artifact, and the unfettered fury is arguably weaker than the other 2 in combat. He’s more a support guy with utility abilities. I would replace him a Wrath of Khorne, carrying crimson crown. Free command abilities is excellent, especially because he can buff Cannons with it. In combat, he can use the reapers attack again ability. Furthermore, wrath of Khorne gets extra shots with his flail, thanks to mongers, which gets nuts really quickly. 

 remove Bloodcrushers and Bloodletters and Flesh Hounds. Id bring a LOT more warriors, and spread them out in front. Use them to ensure NO ONE can reach the Cannons. Bring large units of 20-30, and have a priest with Bronzed flesh to buff them. This is your anvil. Try to bring... maybe 5 more mongers? Spread them out behind the warriors, 3 inches behind. If anyone attacks the warriors, you smile, congratulate your opponent and pile in ALL your mongers in retaliation.

Bring some MSU reavers. I’d bring maybe 2 units. Keep them at the back, screen your butt against gavriel surecharge’s evocator party bus, or deepkin eel spam. Maybe a third of you need. No more than that. 

And definitely bring more Cannons. You want to leverage their sheer hitting power. 

Against alpha strike focused lists, you have the advantage. You can wipe out most of their army, before their alpha comes in. Against shooting lists, skull Cannons are decently durable (better in cover), and can actually shoot back. Their 2 rend makes them good against ballista, and they hit and wound easier, and can have better shots. They shoot better than Overlords, which is pretty funny. 

Against DoK, SHOOT THE CAULDRONS AND HAG WITCHES. Those are annoying to face. Hag witches can die relatively easily to your Cannons. Against LoN, I feel that you could actually try sniping enemy heroes, even Nagash might be scared of 4+ cannons shooting at the same time with a WoK Bloodthirster yelling at them to shoot straight. 

The other priest should bring Killing Frenzy. Secrator is good, keep him.

dont bring speedy units. Build up a heavy death brick that has teeth at range but refuses to die up close. I’d bring a banner of rage if possible, but might be hard since Crimson Crown is a must take for me imo. 

In terms of judgements, don’t use skulls. Too unreliable. Reapers is my preferred anti-magic, and I’d bring a wrath axe. Helps your guys survive longer. And while harder to summon, has more immediate impact. 

In terms of Battalions, don’t bring gorethunder. I’d honestly recommend even a Bloodforged would be interesting. Skullgrinder is meh, but he’s self sufficient little beatstick with good range, he can chill at the back with the mongers, and attacking twice with them gets really scary. Even gore Pilgrims is solid for the secrator. 

I’ll write a sample list.