AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Mikeboll]

@Carnelian @Charles

The orb=relocating orb

against England game 3:

he took turn one and charged bladed blightlords into my warriors, and pb into a khorgorath/reavers. LoA fly up to objective in the center. Blightlords kill the warriors but take some wounds back. My go and I use priest to drag LoN towards me, charge in mongers and leaveing him on one wounds left. Letters/BT kills the blightlords. Then I just grind throu the pb. Ones you kill them below 20 modells they just melt. After that i charged in BT and letters into his characters and game over. Was pretty much the same in last game against tullyband. So did not kill the entirely army but pretty much. Some plaguebearers left in both matches. You just do so much more damage than the nurgleplayer when you close down there magic. 

[Mikeboll]

Some other thoughts:

standard deploy is warriors as a center screen, reavers as screen to a side of them and one khorgorath in each flank. Mongers often central behind the warriors. Then characters and letters behind. 

BT with cloak. Just amazing. 

36” secrator. Just amazing. 

Stoker. So good. Autoinclude. The reroll 1 to wound extra good on the BT. With frenzy he is 2+ reroll/2+ reroll against heroes. Just kills them with 7 rend2 d3+1 damage. 

Priests. Awsome. 

Warriors. So solid. Anvil in the list. Allways deploy them central to screen my army and running up to central objectives. 

Reavers. Just tax. Can screen and stand on obectives. 

Letters. Just amazing. Insane speed with the autorun 6 command. Kills everything in the game. 

Mongers. Just amazing dealing with hardhiting monsters and units like bladed drones. Keep them central. 

Khorgoraths. Love them. Good flank unit. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Mikeboll

[Lazaris]

Hi Mike, thanks a lot for the information!

Do you think Khorne is still playable in a 1k points format?

I feel like our army relies too much on synergies and Gore Pilgrims to be effective at that point level...

[phizzco]

9 hours ago, Mikeboll said:

Some other thoughts:

standard deploy is warriors as a center screen, reavers as screen to a side of them and one khorgorath in each flank. Mongers often central behind the warriors. Then characters and letters behind. 

BT with cloak. Just amazing. 

36” secrator. Just amazing. 

Stoker. So good. Autoinclude. The reroll 1 to wound extra good on the BT. With frenzy he is 2+ reroll/2+ reroll against heroes. Just kills them with 7 rend2 d3+1 damage. 

Priests. Awsome. 

Warriors. So solid. Anvil in the list. Allways deploy them central to screen my army and running up to central objectives. 

Reavers. Just tax. Can screen and stand on obectives. 

Letters. Just amazing. Insane speed with the autorun 6 command. Kills everything in the game. 

Mongers. Just amazing dealing with hardhiting monsters and units like bladed drones. Keep them central. 

Khorgoraths. Love them. Good flank unit. 

Is this the only viable competitive format? 

[Xasz]

21 minutes ago, phizzco said:

Is this the only viable competitive format? 

It's an alternation from the hybrid lists before 2.0, in which you usually played 2x30 or even 3x30 Bloodletters. It was somewhat expected that a list like this would pop up sooner or later.

It's probably not the only, at least somewhat capable list, but it's very likely that any other will include Gore Pilgrims as well. So, they'll be somewhat similar as there is just no competitively viable option otherwise.

[2D6]

We are a few weeks into the new format with only 1 major tournament so far,  I think it’s a little early to be asking / saying  how many competitive combos there are as people are still tinkering with lists, there hasn’t been many tournaments to test said competitive lists, and FAQs are likely still coming. 

At least this is a little improvement from the 0 competitive lists “Khorne is dead” stuff people were saying prior to the 2.0 release haha. 

Every list I have built so far has indeed included gore pilgrims but I have faith that some other options will emerge soon enough from the top level guys. 

 

Edit: spelling 

Edited July 11, 2018 by 2D6

[Agent of Chaos]

@Mikeboll Thanks for the battle reports and sharing your list. I was doing some list crafting around Gorepilgrims and came up with something very similar although I only own the one Korgorath which leaves me with 100 points that I am still unsure what to do with.

I always feel dirty not taking a Bloodstoker so totally agree with your comments on him. Its a shame because it would be nice to fit an Aspiring Deathbringer in but I think you need all 3 priests so theres just no room. Im taking the same prayers although heavily considering swapping one killing frenzy for a blood sacrifice to boost the blood tithe. Did you feel you had enough tithe in your games?

I note you didnt take any additional command points. Given you get 1 from the battalion, did you find that was enough? Would it be overkill for me to spend my last 100 points on 2 x command points, giving 3 with the battalion?

Alternatives would be 5 x blood warriors/chaos warriors, bump the reavers up to 20 or 5 x flesh hounds (which is probably my preference). I suppose I could take Karanak (from what I can tell he doesnt take up a hero slot) and just summon 5 x hounds for free but I dont have his model as yet. 

[Galdenistal]

10 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Alternatives would be 5 x blood warriors/chaos warriors, bump the reavers up to 20 or 5 x flesh hounds (which is probably my preference). I suppose I could take Karanak (from what I can tell he doesnt take up a hero slot) and just summon 5 x hounds for free but I dont have his model as yet. 

Sadly Karanak does take a Leader slot, he just isn't a Hero.

[Agent of Chaos]

Sad panda

Seems ridiculous that he can't buff the flesh hounds for their reroll to unbind but still takes up a hero slot. Somewhat symbolic of GW's treatment of Khorne recently perhaps?

What about scenarios where only heroes can take objectives? I suppose he doesn't count for that either...

[Kolent]

Why people puts Inmense power to a WoKB?? I don't get it.

[Mikeboll]

For the plus 1 damage. D3+1 makes him more likely to kill stuff. I can see the use of other stuff aswell but think the +1 damage is the best one. 

@Agent of Chaos 1 extra command point was enough. You can never have enough blood tithe :). I was considering the blood sacrifice aswell but ended up in dubble killing frenzy. 

[Silchas_Ruin]

I been giving my BT +1 dmg also, even gave it a go with +2. That +1 just feels like the difference between being scary in melee or not. In games without BT seems to have a hard time actually killing stuff.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

6 hours ago, Kolent said:

Why people puts Inmense power to a WoKB?? I don't get it.

Stock bloodthirsters are pretty pants without an artifact or buff.

Immense power increases max damage output.

Increased minimum damage output.

More assurance youll kill a 5 wound character (only need 3 unsaved wounds not to fluff it.

Makes a massive difference if youre swinging against a unit rather than a hero/monster.

Pretty much always run mine with immense power + deathdealer- assuming youre in range of a bloodsecrator youre looking at potential 35 wounds. 

 

 

 

[Xasz]

14 hours ago, 2D6 said:

We are a few weeks into the new format with only 1 major tournament so far,  I think it’s a little early to be asking / saying  how many competitive combos there are as people are still tinkering with lists, there hasn’t been many tournaments to test said competitive lists, and FAQs are likely still coming. 

At least this is a little improvement from the 0 competitive lists “Khorne is dead” stuff people were saying prior to the 2.0 release haha. 

Every list I have built so far has indeed included gore pilgrims but I have faith that some other options will emerge soon enough from the top level guys. 

 

Edit: spelling 

The result has almost no value due to the format. (Although still an impressive performance)

The outlook for Khorne is still rather grim and the list in question is just a variation of an established archetype. (so we already know its weaknesses and pitfalls)

What I want is a list that nobody even remotely considered but personally I doubt there is anything that does not start with Gore Pilgrims. Which has a limited amount of possibilities and is already well known and tested.

[Karol]

Does anyone have any tips on how to beat non summoning lizardman at 1500pts.

[Scrags]

I really don't know where all the negative outlooks are coming from for Khorne. To be fair it's not like people are calling it completely unviable. I'm just coming to Khorne here at the start of 2E so maybe I missed the glory days but I've always found Khorne to be solid. 

Far from the bleeding edge of hyper competitive play but I feel like they're in a pretty decent place. I'm coming down from my Nurgle high (been waiting for nurgle to be good for forever and have really been enjoying them post maggotkin release.)

Here in 2E though I figure I'd finally give Khorne a go and I feel that I have just a much success with them as I did with nurgle. Also, I'm really enjoying not being completely addicted to/reliant on Blades of Putrifaction ;D 

Granted I've only been able to get 5 games in so for in 2E but I'm undefeated so far and with the addition of Flesh Hounds to my model pool for summoning games have been getting better and better.  I plan on going to a tournament in Dallas and Wargames Con this year so I'll let y'all know how those go if anyone is interested. 

I just wanted to bring some hope to you guys on the off chance anyone else was feeling down about the faction

Edited July 12, 2018 by Scrags

[Patapoef]

Did any1 try the council of blood? Its even stronger now since all bt get to use their command ability without using a cp. Its 150 points, not that expensive. You do need to use 3 bt, but that doesn't feel horrible to me.

[Scrags]

7 hours ago, Patapoef said:

Did any1 try the council of blood? Its even stronger now since all bt get to use their command ability without using a cp. Its 150 points, not that expensive. You do need to use 3 bt, but that doesn't feel horrible to me.

So let me preface by saying that I have only played AGAINST a council of blood, I haven't run it myself. From my experience on the receiving end of the table I'd say it works and it doesn't. Here's why;

What works: I think Khorne plays a lot like tyranids used to, I.e the original and literal "distraction carnifex". If you don't play 40k, the basic idea is put many threats on the table thus giving your opponents an impossible choice. "Which unit should I focus because I can't ignore any of them, but can only deal with one at a time". 

3 BTs certainly plays into that mindset and can be very scary for some armies to deal with. 

What doesn't work: As much fun as BTs are, they seem to work best with artifacts and command traits and are VERY greedy with them. Several people have already mentioned the value of Immense power but only one gets that. You can put artifacts on the other 2 but you're starting to spread yourself thin and then there's the bigger issue... points. 

With the 260 variants this battalion is still going to run you 930 points. So effectively half your army. Imho there are better cheaper units that can fill that "multiple threat" role and often preform better than a BT that degrades with damage, while also being harder to take off the table. Could be spoiled by GUO durability but BTs are glass cannons that die in all of my games. They normally pay for themselves at least, but are dead turn 3 ;D

Ultimately it's your call of course but that's my 2 cents at least  if you run it and have success please let us know!

[2D6]

13 hours ago, Xasz said:

The result has almost no value due to the format. (Although still an impressive performance)

The outlook for Khorne is still rather grim and the list in question is just a variation of an established archetype. (so we already know its weaknesses and pitfalls)

What I want is a list that nobody even remotely considered but personally I doubt there is anything that does not start with Gore Pilgrims. Which has a limited amount of possibilities and is already well known and tested.

Unless you’ve already tried every list combination and battalion against every other army in a competitive environment (after 2.0) and recorded your data, then I don’t see how one can already assume things are grim so early on in 2.0? FAQs for Khorne and / or some of the top tier armies could still change the whole meta overnight (a meta which hasn’t even established itself yet imo). You don’t have to have the strongest book in the game to be a competitive army, if Khorne is good at beating Nurgle and death (as mike found at 6 nations), and those armies are considered strong, then khorne will be good in that meta. If you only see fyreslayers then you might have a tougher time. Really depends on your tournament scene / gaming group imo.

Maybe we have different ideas of the word grim. In your opinion do you believe Khorne is a decent mid tier army or are you saying you think it’s one of the weaker bottom tier books? Or do you think it’s mid tier but mid tier isn’t competitive?

Im not saying your opinions are wrong (though I do still think it’s a tad early to know for sure) I’m just curious to know what makes you think that.

[Praecautus]

Had my first AoS 2 game against an experienced players Death - Legion of Nagash. Played escalation w 2k armies and ended in a draw.

My list was gorepilgrims with some summoning, although not optimised.

Daemon Prince w crown

Aspiring deathbring w bezerker lord

Blood secrator w rune

3 x Priests w bronze flesh

4 x 10 reavers

2 x 10 warriors

5 skull reapers

War shrine w bronze flesh

Khorgorath

 

Wont do a blow by blow, but it was a brutal slaughter fest ? Some things which struck me

Focus on the scenario . Obvious to many here buts it's tempting to get distracted by a valuable model and give up an objective

Gorepilgrims is amazing - not news ?

Priests were great - 4x flesh is really handy and blood boil really made my opponent consider where he placed valuable models. I need to use them more aggressively.

Aspiring death bringer w command points is a steal at 80 points. Him and 3 blood warriors obliterated a horde of zombies and grave guard.

Blood tithe was flowing after each combat phase, I always seemed to have 2 or 3 points after combat so I managed to summon a herald and 10 blood letters and unbind arkhan a few times.

30 inch unbind is awesome but a buffer up arkhan is a spell monster. Could only stop him w blood tithe.

Ward save on shrine is pretty meh, while a fourth flesh is handy I think replacing it and the prince for a wok bt may be the way forward.

Small units of reavers seems like the way forward - objective grabbers and tithe.

Death summoning is mean

 

All in all feeling happier about khorne in this edition. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Praecautus

[Xasz]

1 hour ago, 2D6 said:

Unless you’ve already tried every list combination and battalion against every other army in a competitive environment (after 2.0) and recorded your data, then I don’t see how one can already assume things are grim so early on in 2.0? FAQs for Khorne and / or some of the top tier armies could still change the whole meta overnight (a meta which hasn’t even established itself yet imo). You don’t have to have the strongest book in the game to be a competitive army, if Khorne is good at beating Nurgle and death (as mike found at 6 nations), and those armies are considered strong, then khorne will be good in that meta. If you only see fyreslayers then you might have a tougher time. Really depends on your tournament scene / gaming group imo.

Maybe we have different ideas of the word grim. In your opinion do you believe Khorne is a decent mid tier army or are you saying you think it’s one of the weaker bottom tier books? Or do you think it’s mid tier but mid tier isn’t competitive?

Im not saying your opinions are wrong (though I do still think it’s a tad early to know for sure) I’m just curious to know what makes you think that.

That's probably something I should have clarified from the start. With "grim" I mean two things. One likelihood of reaching the top 10% in a solo tournament and for two, general flexibility and "roundness" of a faction. Which is something not everyone cares about.

Khorne is by default a rather static faction and it's to some degree their appeal. Sadly, GW left Khorne with only one competitively viable battalion and the new stuff from 2.0 does not a whole much for the faction. (especially the focus on magic and lets not name the issues with Blood Tithe again or the preemptive nerfs)

One important thing to realize, is that 90% of the things on the internet do not matter in your particular situation. Everyone has his local meta and there is a good chance that armies that usually do not perform well are dominating the club and winning 2/3 or 4/5 of their games. So everything should be taken with a metric ton of salt and if you are not a matched play junkie you can pretty much skip half the posts around here.

Khorne will eventually win a tournament or place rather well, that's something I wholeheartedly expect. Especially when people start to forget what Khorne can do but I would be pleasantly surprised if this would be a common occurrence. (although, many factions have it a lot worse, anyone remembers GA: Destruction? So it's a bit of a first world problem) 

Another important thing to remember, AoS and a lot of tabletopts are not complex games at the core. The state of a game can sometimes be predicted with surprising accuracy, just by having a reasonable understanding of the rules and scenarios. We already see several predictions from the last month validated... which doesn't mean that internet people can't be wrong, misjudge or overlook things. The last one is what I'm hoping for in consideration of Khorne.

What I'm trying to say, play whatever brings you fun and don't get discouraged by internet people.

[Flipswitch123]

 I have a I have a quick question Does anyone know if in 2.0 did they raise the cap on blood tithe points? And if not how do you get to the 16 points required  for a exalted greater daemon?

[TheAdequateWargamer]

5 hours ago, Flipswitch123 said:

 I have a I have a quick question Does anyone know if in 2.0 did they raise the cap on blood tithe points? And if not how do you get to the 16 points required  for a exalted greater daemon?

They have not clarified this one- cap is 8 RAW.

But reckon you should discuss with your opponent/TO prior to game. Its not an unreasonable request. 

Wouldnt recommend it though. You get much more bang for your buck with almost any other summoning choice(s)

[Scrags]

10 hours ago, Praecautus said:

Had my first AoS 2 game against an experienced players Death - Legion of Nagash. Played escalation w 2k armies and ended in a draw.

My list was gorepilgrims with some summoning, although not optimised.

Daemon Prince w crown

Aspiring deathbring w bezerker lord

Blood secrator w rune

3 x Priests w bronze flesh

4 x 10 reavers

2 x 10 warriors

5 skull reapers

War shrine w bronze flesh

Khorgorath

 

Wont do a blow by blow, but it was a brutal slaughter fest ? Some things which struck me

Focus on the scenario . Obvious to many here buts it's tempting to get distracted by a valuable model and give up an objective

Gorepilgrims is amazing - not news ?

Priests were great - 4x flesh is really handy and blood boil really made my opponent consider where he placed valuable models. I need to use them more aggressively.

Aspiring death bringer w command points is a steal at 80 points. Him and 3 blood warriors obliterated a horde of zombies and grave guard.

Blood tithe was flowing after each combat phase, I always seemed to have 2 or 3 points after combat so I managed to summon a herald and 10 blood letters and unbind arkhan a few times.

30 inch unbind is awesome but a buffer up arkhan is a spell monster. Could only stop him w blood tithe.

Ward save on shrine is pretty meh, while a fourth flesh is handy I think replacing it and the prince for a wok bt may be the way forward.

Small units of reavers seems like the way forward - objective grabbers and tithe.

Death summoning is mean

 

All in all feeling happier about khorne in this edition. 

Nice! Thanks for the breakdown, I'll have to look at blood warriors again  

I always take my shrines for the reroll all failed hits and extra blood blessing. 6+ ward saves are never anything to bank on but I think the utility of the prayers and synergy of the Warshrine being a TOTEM and thus giving my reavers an extra attack makes them well worth it. 

Granted I run much larger blocks of Reavers

[Flipswitch123]

How do you guys feel about the combination of  Aspiring death bringer, bloodsecrator,  wrathmongers, bloodstoker, skullgrinder, and reavers? And can any one think of a way to add and get more attacks out of your  units?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Flipswitch123
added wrathmongers