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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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@Ravinsild I ran my Exalted D last game with same setup he did ok but he is liable to get 1 shotted with 5wounds 4+ save but yes its decent choice. The Stokers reroll all failed wounds can make mediocre Warriors into beatsticks too tho ( add in no respite), the Exalted D with cleaver + Stoker is insult to injury, and Goretide run + charge in conjunction with Stoker and you can really mess up those pesky heroes hanging out backfield. 

The hammers are largely the Priest + Judgments and well guided Reapers. Personally the Warshrine and Slaughterbrute put in some work last game i had but the Warshrine more so for reroll all hits and Judgments the Brute just rolled good. If you focus on things that spit out MW it can get kinda crazy. 

Slaughterborn doesn't require Reavers and if you take 3x Warriors you got battleline covered. Even just 2 units of 10 Warriors and 1 Reavers is ok if you want to keep room for other stuff. At least 2x5 Reapers and unit of Mongers could do the trick.

I had same concerns you did with who is gonna do the killing, but once things got rolling i was spitting mortal wounds everywhere.

So far i like the idea of Chaos Lord on Manticore, Warshrine, Slaughterbrute as optional beatsticks as well, i might do all 3 next game. But minimum of 3 Priest may be a necessity against some list.

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Here is the next list I'm thinking of , Bloodlords , cant decide if I can fit in a battalion or just run more dudes.

 

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Just got the book.  Army listing has never been so much fun! I can't believe that a unit of 10 Wrathmongers in a Bloodforged battalion can potentialy dish out 100 attacks! Throw in Scarr Bloodwrath and each individual Wrathmonger model will pile in and attack before naturally exploding, causing even more wounds. This seems like pure insanity. So my list that is inspired by this is as follows:

Goretide
Battalion: Bloodforged

Skullgrinder (General)
Hew the Foe
Mark of the Destroyer

Bloodsecrator
Thronbreaker's Torc

Skar Bloodwrath

Slaughterpriest

Slaughterpriest

Battleline:
Flesh Hounds x5

Blood Warriors x5
Gorefists

BloodWarriors x5
Gorefists

Other:
Wrathmongers x10

Wrathmongers x10

Mighty Skullcrushers x6

Judgements of Khorne:

Wrath Axe

Hexgorger Skulls

I've also heard in a podcast that the since the Wrathmonger's +1 attack bonus does not specify melee attacks only, that this bonus will also apply to Skull Cannons's shooting as well. Well, in the previous book I wished to put together a Gorethunder Cohort but was just not happy with it. Not anymore!

Reapers of Vengeance
Battalion: Gorethunder Cohort

Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne (General)
Mage Eater
Skullshard Mantle

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster
(bonus artifact undecided)

Battleline:
Flesh Hounds x5

Bloodletters x10

Bloodletters x10

Artillery:
Skull Cannons x3

Skull Cannon x1

Skull Cannon x1

Other:
Wrathmongers x5

Bloodcrushers x6

Who says Khorne can't shoot? 5 Cannons bunched up together with the Mongers cheerleading close to them so that they each get to shoot twice. Thats 10 30 inch shots hitting on 3s (rerolling missing thanks to battalion), wounding on 3s, rend -2, D6 damage. And now they get a free round of shooting if they kill a model in combat? YES PLEASE!
 

Edited by Reezark_SP
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Hey guys, a question about Blood Tithe:

"Murderlust: Pick 1 friendly KHORNE unit; that unit can make a normal move....."

So.. I can run with that Unit in hero phase and later, Move and charge?

 

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2 hours ago, Reezark_SP said:

Just got the book.  Army listing has never been so much fun! I can't believe that a unit of 10 Wrathmongers in a Bloodforged battalion can potentialy dish out 100 attacks! Throw in Scarr Bloodwrath and each individual Wrathmonger model will pile in and attack before naturally exploding, causing even more wounds. This seems like pure insanity. So my list that is inspired by this is as follows:

Goretide
Battalion: Bloodforged

Skullgrinder (General)
Hew the Foe
Mark of the Destroyer

Bloodsecrator
Thronbreaker's Torc

Skar Bloodwrath

Slaughterpriest

Slaughterpriest

Battleline:
Flesh Hounds x5

Blood Warriors x5
Gorefists

BloodWarriors x5
Gorefists

Other:
Wrathmongers x10

Wrathmongers x10

Mighty Skullcrushers x6

Judgements of Khorne:

Wrath Axe

Hexgorger Skulls

I've also heard in a podcast that the since the Wrathmonger's +1 attack bonus does not specify melee attacks only, that this bonus will also apply to Skull Cannons's shooting as well. Well, in the previous book I wished to put together a Gorethunder Cohort but was just not happy with it. Not anymore!

Reapers of Vengeance
Battalion: Gorethunder Cohort

Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne (General)
Mage Eater
Skullshard Mantle

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster
(bonus artifact undecided)

Battleline:
Flesh Hounds x5

Bloodletters x10

Bloodletters x10

Artillery:
Skull Cannons x3

Skull Cannon x1

Skull Cannon x1

Other:
Wrathmongers x5

Bloodcrushers x6

Who says Khorne can't shoot? 5 Cannons bunched up together with the Mongers cheerleading close to them so that they each get to shoot twice. Thats 10 30 inch shots hitting on 3s (rerolling missing thanks to battalion), wounding on 3s, rend -2, D6 damage. And now they get a free round of shooting if they kill a model in combat? YES PLEASE!
 

I've found the cannon monger combo to be brutal even without the battalion.  Put killing frenzy on a 2 or 3 man squad and park a bloodmaster next to the in blood lords. You now have a squad hitting on 2s rerolling 1s and against heros and monsters rerolling 1s to wound. Add to that if you get the brick in combat the master with the halo can make the cannons fighter before you even select a unit to fight within the phase.

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Based on feedback, and since I’m playing against Dispossed tomorrow, my lists have come down to these 2:

 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe  
- Artefact: Mark of the Destroyer  
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc  
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Goreaxe and Skullhammer
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
10 x Skullreapers (360)
- Daemonblades
- 2x Soultearers

Battalions
Bloodmad Warband (160)

Endless Spells
Wrath-Axe (60)
Bleeding Icon (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

or basically: 

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe  
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc  
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Exalted Deathbringer with Impaling Spear (80)
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers

Battalions
Slaughterborn (180)

Endless Spells
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138
 

 

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3 hours ago, MadCat said:

Hey guys, a question about Blood Tithe:

"Murderlust: Pick 1 friendly KHORNE unit; that unit can make a normal move....."

So.. I can run with that Unit in hero phase and later, Move and charge?

 

No unfortunately not. 

P230 'You cannot make a charge move with a unit that has run or retreated earlier in the turn...'

 

On the subject of tithe points, are they still able to be used in the enemy hero phase?

The wording has changed drastically from the last book.

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Why do I see so many lists with large blobs of Reavers? Split em up into 10s, it makes them better screens and gives you more bloodtithe. And enemy units will almost always overkill them anyway so if there's only 10 wounds instead of 20 they're sortof wasting their attacks xD

Last time I ran 20 (in Dark feast and with the shrine) that unit took 14 wounds before it got a chance to attack and I remember thinking if it was 2 units of 10 instead. One would have died and given me blood tithe. Then the other one could either have stayed put and blocked some more, or get some buffs and charge in.

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10 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

This statement just reaks of self defeatism and blantant deception. First of all i stand by my first statement that perhaps you're just not as good at this game as you think or you're hundreds of dollars in the hole on crumby units and refuse to admit the army sucks.

Exactly this, the army sucks if we don't use demons. Balant deceptions? Whatever mate.

10 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

You know "a lot" of people who just up and sold their army? This is wrong on so many levels. 1. I doubt you even know "a lot" of people with Khorne armies.

Very cool that you know my community beter, than I do, obviously.

 

10 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

5. Anyone supporting this is a passive aggressive troll.

Stigmatisation.

I really don't understand, why fanboys have to be that hostile, if someone puts up criticism about a GW product.
You might enjoy it, but that's not the same for all. You should admit that.

And due to your argument, that I might not be as good as I think at this game. That might actually be. But what I can say for sure is, that I did only lose with that army the last years. My other armies are just fine. That would be: Sylvaneth, Beasts of Chaos

No issues there.

So please don't stigmatise someone, just because you think different.

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48 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Exactly this, the army sucks if we don't use demons. Balant deceptions? Whatever mate.

Very cool that you know my community beter, than I do, obviously.

 

Stigmatisation.

I really don't understand, why fanboys have to be that hostile, if someone puts up criticism about a GW product.
You might enjoy it, but that's not the same for all. You should admit that.

And due to your argument, that I might not be as good as I think at this game. That might actually be. But what I can say for sure is, that I did only lose with that army the last years. My other armies are just fine. That would be: Sylvaneth, Beasts of Chaos

No issues there.

So please don't stigmatise someone, just because you think different.

Its more the fact you havent told anyone upon request how many games with the new book youve played. Im all for criticism when its backed up with actual findings during played games rather than mathhammer (which NEVER tells the real story). 

Just give the army a go for atleast 2 weeks and tell us if the army is bad then. Because I have only played 1 game and still believe that the army can do insanely well when played to its strengths.

 

In other topics, whats everyones opinion of the Juggerlord? Im either getting mixed feelings about him or im not understanding his new role in the army as I feel hes a decent hero hunter. Shame as hes the one model that got me into BoK, Juggernauts for days!

Edited by Broken Netcode
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5 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

Its more the fact you havent told anyone upon request how many games with the new book youve played. Im all for criticism when its backed up with actual findings during played games rather than mathhammer (which NEVER tells the real story).

Now 5 with non demons yet.

 

6 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

Just give the army a go for atleast 2 weeks and tell us if the army is bad then. Because I have only played 1 game and still believe that the army can do insanely well when played to its strengths.

I hope so, really! It isn't that I wanna rant here, but it really feels bad atm.

 

7 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

In other topics, whats everyones opinion of the Juggerlord? Im either getting mixed feelings about him or im not understanding his new role in the army as I feel hes a decent hero hunter. Shame as hes the one model that got me into BoK, Juggernauts for days!

I pretty like him. He is a solid beatstick for low point cost, with a solid save. Always keeping him in the background for hooking in, if he is needed. His D3 damage and 3+ save are insanely good for his point value.

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2 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Now 5 with non demons yet.

Ah sweet! Ive actually found playing a sort of Hybrid list works to the army's strengths imo. At least 1 block of 30 letters is my go to battleline atm! 

 

3 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

I hope so, really! It isn't that I wanna rant here, but it really feels bad atm.

Its okay! We can get that youre really passionate about this army, so lets all work together and make this work! Its much better than all of us being upset over something that probably isnt true!

5 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

I pretty like him. He is a solid beatstick for low point cost, with a solid save. Always keeping him in the background for hooking in, if he is needed. His D3 damage and 3+ save are insanely good for his point value.

Hes a real contender with the Skulltaker for sure, but with his statline im almost feeling he needs a relic like Gorecleaver or Ghyrstrike to do enough damage to make up for the 60pt difference with the Skulltaker, and with slaughterhosts forcing us to take a relic thats making him even more costly, especially since the battalions are difficult to process mentally from first glance! I'll give him another go tonight and come back with more findings!

 

Ive actually had a lot of fun with the idea of an Insensate Rage Thirster with Amberglaive (+1 to hit, +1 weapon range) to snipe out units that are screened with chaff. Charge the chaff, attack the main block with those 5 BEASTLY attacks at 3" range, and see your opponent squeal in fear of his screens being wasted points!

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4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Based on feedback, and since I’m playing against Dispossed tomorrow, my lists have come down to these 2:

Both lists look like a cool and good thake on things. However there are still some things I would like you to consider.
First things first, on the topic of Blood Warriors, I think Gorefists are now simply said better as double axes. While 6+ on saves arn't still very common it's now on a unmodified 6+ roll. To me this is better as re-rolling one's. 

First list, Bloodmad Warband
The set up looks generally good. I am not huge on this Battalion however as it leaves no room to include the Wrathmonger and Skullcannon combination. Having said that, you do get powerful charges, if you charge.

A real consideration here is to look at Gore Pilgrims too. Same kind of set up, allows for more space within the army to include some ranged support and it doesn't force you to basically include 600 points of Blood Warriors. Don't get me wrong, Blood Warriors are okay, but I wouldn't spend more as 400 points into them if I don't have to. They can be a good anvil, but your army doesn't win allone by relying on that. 
Wrathmongers can make pretty much everything hammers, and to be fair Gore Pilgrims does this too, as extending the range of the Bloodsecrator has never been this relevant.

Second list, Slaughterborn
A form of Rend immunity is nice. But really that's all I can say about it. With certain armies like Nurgle or Legions of Nagash this works well with their ability to attrition in combat. Khorne doesn't do that. So I'm not really a fan of this Battalion.
Again I love the general set up here but would point towards Skulltake even before this one. As what we usually want is more damage output. Stuff dying is okay, as long as we trade up. Due to Blood Tithe points.

As a general advice for list building I'd say try to find a balance between anvils and hammers. Don't try to rely on either. With this I mean that there is no real reason to spend more as 500 points on Battleline units. There is no real reason to end up with a 1980 point list and on top of that your missing out on a few of the best Blades of Khorne units, being; Skarr, Wrathmongers, one or two Skullcannons with Wrathmongers, Bloodthirsters and Bloodletters.

I do think your doing a great job on focussing on the Goretide, just keep in mind that 2 Blood Warrior units are sufficient there as you don't really have more CP to hurl them upwards anyway. Then when you do and they do have Gorefist your opponent could really cut themselves too.

Hope this helps. If you want some direct responces or lists building tips, feel free to PM.

Cheers,

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10 hours ago, Keith said:

Here is the next list I'm thinking of , Bloodlords , cant decide if I can fit in a battalion or just run more dudes.

Great video and army mate, think this will work out fine. I do also think you want want to cap it at two Skullcannons so you can include another unit of Wrathmongers to be around the Bloodletters. But either way the list looks very strong. Personally I wouldn't bother with the Icon.

You could drop another unit of Bloodreavers, upgrade the Icon to Axe and have another CP. I think that's better. 

Edited by Killax
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Well i have played 3 different games already, ill try to get some impressions from them,

        First match was vs seraphon i had a very good run with  one IR BT and  i thought that they were inmensely good, a couple of blood priest did a great job all around. Major Victory.

        Second match was vs FEC, man i got a random victory because of ultra luck. But i was TOTALLY destroyed, i charged with 6 m. skullkrushers a jugger lord and a IR BT, all some kinds of buffs (jugger command),some +1 hit and chaos warshrine buff, and my BT had +2 attacks so 7 attacks, and i couldnt even kill a unit of 30 ghouls... my 7 attacks ir did like 4 wounds only and no explosion and that humpered me a lot. In next turn retalation he charged with terrorgheist hero with +d3 attack spell wich is really broken and did me like 36+ mortal wound between my lord of khorne and my juggies. I managed to strike back with the IR wich did a good job this time and killed the Terrorgheist but that was a lucky move.  i just had a chance for the game cause we were playing startstrike and all 3 objective fallen on one side of the  table where i had more useful units than my enemy. But apart of that i felt useless and FEC is so hard (it wasnt even a meta list of terrorgheists and emperors or whatever, just a normal list)

        Third match vs nighthound, i got minor victory here, i had a lucky dispell first turn and some very good cannon shooting and mortal wound spam and killed on second turn olynder and 10 revenants, Skulltaker surprised me and killed reikenor right away. I had the game pretty much controlled there, double charged a chariot with 2 IR BTs, wich only did 9 wounds, and i even took a bloodtithe extra attack on the next hero phase to end it but it failed,  Then on other turn i charged with a full BT to 10 chainrasp on 1 objective and only managed to kill 1 losing 4 victory points. My secrator a priest and skulltaker didnt manage to kill 10 revenants for various turns, and i got a bit tarpited. but cannons saved the day killing chariot charging some  unit on objective and shoting them to death.

       Overall i think we have a good fun battletome, i didnt play the bloodlords etc wich can be very good, but i was playing with friends so no need for that kind of lists.  What ive learn is that Hexgorge skulls are way more unrelaible than i thought i couldnt make them work once in 3 games, they have very low range and enemy wizards will just outrange them every single time. The axe is amazing. The slaughter priests are incredible good. I really like the cannon monguer and locus combo im gonna bring this pack to every list, it gives tons of flexibility, shoot, charge and shoot. release the monguers to finish something/ grab an objective when needed. Skulltaker its definitely great, if you want a blood master,try to save for 40 points and bring this guy, its a really powerful hero sniper but well he must be protected. IR BTs, i thought i would love this guys, the numbers on my head were like he is too good, bring 2, the reallity is that IR Bt its more like IRREGULAR BT,  1 game was great, two games they sucked and did absolutely nothing, call it bad luck or whatever but when you spend 280 points an artifact and a trait on a model, it is expected to do much more.

 

Well thats it guys, sorry for the textwall!

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@Ravinsild Killax is right you probably dont need 3x10 Warriors. I think the Slaughterborn is best here cuz Dorfs have rend across alot of stuff. The list isnt really here to generate BT just outlast and outpunch.

I would suggest you drop 1 of them 10x Warriors and take a 3rd Priest and 10xReavers to blood sacrifice if you want to get Thirster on table by end of game. That means you got 7 heroes so drop MLoK and take another unit of Mongers in his place.

You should be at 1950 giving you an extra CP or you can take bleeding icon which dorf dont fail battleshock much but you got 3 Priest and icon does kick MWs and can be used to block off enemies. Either choice is useful.

Let them go first Dorfs are soooo slow. Let him get closer to altar and break formation so you can try run+charge thru any holes he makes. Some of their heroes are really squishy.

Edit: Oh and use your Warriors as "count as" gorefist for sure.

Edited by ChaosUndivided
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2 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

Ive actually had a lot of fun with the idea of an Insensate Rage Thirster with Amberglaive (+1 to hit, +1 weapon range) to snipe out units that are screened with chaff. Charge the chaff, attack the main block with those 5 BEASTLY attacks at 3" range, and see your opponent squeal in fear of his screens being wasted points!

What realm is that artefact from? That’s a good idea! Where can I read about this one? 

Edited by Impa

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40 minutes ago, Bululu said:

IR BTs, i thought i would love this guys, the numbers on my head were like he is too good, bring 2, the reallity is that IR Bt its more like IRREGULAR BT,  1 game was great, two games they sucked and did absolutely nothing, call it bad luck or whatever but when you spend 280 points an artifact and a trait on a model, it is expected to do much more.

Thanks for the in depth analysis. Awe man that’s unfortunate. Was he not getting his hit rolls in?  That 4+ to hit unbuffed is his Achilles heal for sure. I’m assuming we’d have to killing frenzy and burn an artefact slot to bring him to 2+ To have high percent of him being useful. But with all this wholly within stuff the entire army seems to be based around. We’re limited with who goes where. I’ve got a game next week I will hopefully get in and report after! 

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Blood Warriors do hit a bit like feathers, so they're pretty mich the anvils, thats absolutely right. I was even thinking to split them in 4 groups of 5.
Why though?
I noticed, that enemies really struggle with having a big amount of groups to deal with.
What that basically means is, that those BWs would "dance" across the field and just chaff units, that need to be held at position. Or just by pure baiting, I guess we should have baiting stratgies in mind. Because our army relies on the fact, that the enemy has to come to us. Could be benefitial then.

Blood Reavers I personally run in 10er groups too. Same reason as with the BWs, but the thing is, that they willc ertainly not benefit from a large number of buffs. And with a lot of small units we could bubble wrap the enemy, and force them to split their A to the different units. So the damage output could be kind of the same, but no group would be wiped instantly.

I really see the BW's strenght there, as "first wave" baiters and chaffing unit. The Reavers can be a cheap "second wave" unit to bring in, when the BWs did already go in and took the enemie's aggression ( depending on the turn ). The Reavers do have a rend weapon, and they can deal good damage, that's a thing to concider. The Bloodsecrator should be held in the middle of the field, to actually have as most Reaver units wholy within 16" as possible.

The Secrator itself needs protection. So it might be a pretty blunt idea, but we should give him a unit as ptotection, that the enemy really doesn't want to bind into melee. Place that unit in a way, the enemy would ALWAYS get them into melee, if they engaged the Secrator. Don't know what unit that would be yet, but maybe Skullreapers could be good here. 2 groups of 5 might be a good go. Because they are standing pretty much in the center of the battle, they could then be manovered, where they are needed.

Thing is, the army relies on the "big plan", that needs to be absolutely fleshed out, before going into battle. I imagine it can be really tough to actually change the plan within the battle itself, that's what has been my issue so far.

When the enemy can imagine, what you're planning to do, the plan will crumble very fast.

Bloodletetrs are really a unit, I would keep as "third wave", to bring in actual damage. Togteher with the Thirsters I would keep them back a little, and then rush in, when the enemy is held in position, where we want them to be.

Units, that i do own right now are:

1 Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
10 Blood Letters
5 Flesh Hounds
3 Blood Crusher

1 Bloodsecrator
1 Blood Stoker
1 Slaughter Priest
1 Mighty Lord of Khorne
1 Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut
1 Skarr Blood Wrath
1 Exalted DB
1 Aspiring DB
1 Skullgrinder
40 Blood Reavers with Meatripper Axs
30 Blood Warriors dual wielded and 1 Great Blade per unit of 10
5 Skullreapers / Wrathmongers ( one unit, magnetised to swith them )
6 Khorgorath

My gamestyle was pretty simple so far, but worked out:

Get the enemy into combat with the BWs, and then just straight up destroy them with 6 single unit Khorgorath ( Bravery Modifier ).

But not now anymore.

I had several combinations of lists, and several strategies played, but none of them worked.
Enemies where:

SE Sequitors / Ballista ( yeah ok, not winning against them might be ok though )
Nighthaunt ( just so many ghosts popped up and where healed )
Skaven ( warpfire Boretex...)
FEC ( overrrun due to Ghoul spam )
Dispossesed ( canon and chaffing units hammer and anvil tactics )
 

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I Like the idea of the daemon prince, buts he’s so lacklustre especially for 160(?) points.

Same as a jugger lord, no command ability of his own or other ability is a real drag, fly is useful and he has decent combat ability.

Feels like he should be more 110/120 imo.

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7 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Thing is, the army relies on the "big plan", that needs to be absolutely fleshed out, before going into battle. I imagine it can be really tough to actually change the plan within the battle itself, that's what has been my issue so far.

Some armies play like checkers and others like chess. This book basically changed Khorne from a checkers army to a chess. You don't need the whole game planned out before you start but you gotta have a plan and be able to make the right snap decisions when the time comes. 

Give your deployment a real good thought over, have a plan going in, but keep in mind who/what you are facing and consider what could happen if you go first or second.

You army isnt horrible, you need at least 2 Priest tho (really 3), and Judgments. You're gonna have to run your Warriors as gorefist. You have the right idea on how to use them but don't discount larger units.

You have a lot of Korgies! I would use them still. I personally think Goretide is just better than Skullfiend but with that many Korgoraths i would try to make Skullfiend work. I think you need at least 1 more Reaper/Monger box. I have 2 magnatized as well and considering getting 2 more.

With the changes to wholly within and just sheer number of buffs that can be passed around you gotta make very deliberate choices on where your moving things and why. Really think stuff thru, you can't just wing it like the old book.

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1 hour ago, Bululu said:

Well i have played 3 different games already, ill try to get some impressions from them,

 Overall i think we have a good fun battletome, i didnt play the bloodlords etc wich can be very good, but i was playing with friends so no need for that kind of lists.  What ive learn is that Hexgorge skulls are way more unrelaible than i thought i couldnt make them work once in 3 games, they have very low range and enemy wizards will just outrange them every single time. The axe is amazing. The slaughter priests are incredible good. I really like the cannon monguer and locus combo im gonna bring this pack to every list, it gives tons of flexibility, shoot, charge and shoot. release the monguers to finish something/ grab an objective when needed. Skulltaker its definitely great, if you want a blood master,try to save for 40 points and bring this guy, its a really powerful hero sniper but well he must be protected. IR BTs, i thought i would love this guys, the numbers on my head were like he is too good, bring 2, the reallity is that IR Bt its more like IRREGULAR BT,  1 game was great, two games they sucked and did absolutely nothing, call it bad luck or whatever but when you spend 280 points an artifact and a trait on a model, it is expected to do much more.

Well thats it guys, sorry for the textwall!

Great info. I just cut out the part because my quote wall is going to be big aswell. 
- I agree with you on the Hexgorger Skulls, though I think that a key part of them is to disrupt magic, not to really do more. So their effect will massively differ per whatever ammount of magic your opponent took that day. I think that their range isn't low, but if your opponent spreads out just focus them on their most dangerous Wizard/Sorcerer.
- Axe indeed is the best 60 points we have, it feels like another 2 Blood Boils to me most of the time, provided your opponent is comming for you offcourse. 
- Indeed the effectiveness of this Blades of Khorne comes with toolboxing and mixed melee and ranged support. Different but still very effective.
- From my perspective the must get Daemon Leaders are basically Bloodthirsters, Karanak and Skulltaker. The rest just doesn't seem all that interesting. This is purely because there are no real great Battalions for them either. For example if Murderhost had a 1-3 Bloodletter Hero slot inclusion it would have been much better and much more functional as a Battalion. Daemons to that extend suffer more from linchpin Battalion designs.

Having said that, a Khorne Daemon focus can still be easily done. Plus Tyrants of Blood is certainly something else, as you create a super scarry Bloodthirster Hammer Trio.

Seems like you had great fun with the new army!

17 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Blood Warriors do hit a bit like feathers, so they're pretty mich the anvils, thats absolutely right. I was even thinking to split them in 4 groups of 5.
Why though?
I noticed, that enemies really struggle with having a big amount of groups to deal with.
What that basically means is, that those BWs would "dance" across the field and just chaff units, that need to be held at position. Or just by pure baiting, I guess we should have baiting stratgies in mind. Because our army relies on the fact, that the enemy has to come to us. Could be benefitial then.

Blood Reavers I personally run in 10er groups too. Same reason as with the BWs, but the thing is, that they willc ertainly not benefit from a large number of buffs. And with a lot of small units we could bubble wrap the enemy, and force them to split their A to the different units. So the damage output could be kind of the same, but no group would be wiped instantly.

I really see the BW's strenght there, as "first wave" baiters and chaffing unit. The Reavers can be a cheap "second wave" unit to bring in, when the BWs did already go in and took the enemie's aggression ( depending on the turn ). The Reavers do have a rend weapon, and they can deal good damage, that's a thing to concider. The Bloodsecrator should be held in the middle of the field, to actually have as most Reaver units wholy within 16" as possible.

The Secrator itself needs protection. So it might be a pretty blunt idea, but we should give him a unit as ptotection, that the enemy really doesn't want to bind into melee. Place that unit in a way, the enemy would ALWAYS get them into melee, if they engaged the Secrator. Don't know what unit that would be yet, but maybe Skullreapers could be good here. 2 groups of 5 might be a good go. Because they are standing pretty much in the center of the battle, they could then be manovered, where they are needed.

Thing is, the army relies on the "big plan", that needs to be absolutely fleshed out, before going into battle. I imagine it can be really tough to actually change the plan within the battle itself, that's what has been my issue so far.

When the enemy can imagine, what you're planning to do, the plan will crumble very fast.

Bloodletters are really a unit, I would keep as "third wave", to bring in actual damage. Togteher with the Thirsters I would keep them back a little, and then rush in, when the enemy is held in position, where we want them to be.

My gamestyle was pretty simple so far, but worked out:
Get the enemy into combat with the BWs, and then just straight up destroy them with 6 single unit Khorgorath ( Bravery Modifier ).

But not now anymore.

I had several combinations of lists, and several strategies played, but none of them worked.
Enemies where:

SE Sequitors / Ballista ( yeah ok, not winning against them might be ok though )
Nighthaunt ( just so many ghosts popped up and where healed )
Skaven ( warpfire Boretex...)
FEC ( overrrun due to Ghoul spam )
Dispossesed ( canon and chaffing units hammer and anvil tactics )
 

Yeah I still really like them as a unit of 10. The Goreglaive helps them doing work, so do the Gorefists. But largely I like them to fill that Battleline slot. Anything more and Wrathmongers and Skullreapers just offer more. Not only because they too do something on the backswing but also because Skarr can make Wrathmongers turn into Kamikaze units. In addition a dedicated Bloodsecrator or Deathrbinger with Skullreaper units does a ton of work too.

Personally I have skipped Bloodreavers in my lists so far. They are a nice 70 point filler but I still feel, especially with the Tower being a summonning focus point too, that Fleshhounds just do more here. What I am somewhat bummed about is that Bloodreavers didn't get a rule that at 20+ they just ignore Battleshock. Now they arn't interesting as chaff to me or a blob... But enough alternative options are there, so I'm not upset ;) 

I don't really agree with you that Bloodletters or Bloodthirsters are the third wave... Nor do I see Bloodreavers as a second wave unit.
The plan in that essence is simple:
- Blood Warriors/Bloodletters/Bloodthirsters are the first wave. Bloodthirsters just aim to thake out key units, or respond to a key unit being open (ergo, there is no screen to protect them at that time)
- Anvils in Khorne work now due to Endless Spells. It's because of the Wrath Axe that I can see the value of Blood Warriors aswell, as long as they remain, you will have hits work out. In addition the same applies to Skullcrushers. They arn't there to punch through, but rather to get the enemy stuck. They are so similar now due to what the Goretide host does for Blood Warriors.
- Skullreapers/Wrathmongers/Khorgorath are the second wave or basically the big fat hammer. They can thake out whatever, but you need to be given the option to do so. Losing them quickly can make or break the game, so their use should be implemented more carefully. For Skullreapers a dedicated hero is needed, for Wrathmongers to do scary things a Skarr is fine.
- Then, largely for objective purposes I would say things like Bloodreavers/Skullcannons are the last wave. They work best when left alone. For Bloodreavers it's just hanging around Objectives, for Skullcannons they can move and continue their annoyance. Only to meddle in if it means we're in a end game or the oppertunity allows for it.

But I do think we agree on this tactic: 
1. Anvil/Tarpit the enemy OR thake out key pieces if the opponent allows you to do this.
2. Apply Hammer to where needed.
3. Secure the game by using your cheap/ranged units to keep objectives. 

Cheers!
 

7 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

I Like the idea of the daemon prince, buts he’s so lacklustre especially for 160(?) points.

Same as a jugger lord, no command ability of his own or other ability is a real drag, fly is useful and he has decent combat ability.

Feels like he should be more 110/120 imo.

I'd say both are priced correctly but their use is massively different in my opinion. What I would say is something I agree with is that usually if your going for the stuff beyond 140 point heroes you might aswell consider a Bloodthirster instead.

What makes the Daemon Prince good is mobility and the ability to support in combat.
What makes the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut good is the survivability and eventual support in combat.

Neither (sadly) really do something for Blades of Khorne as do their equivelants in other armies. Because in that same vein Daemon Princes of Nurgle with Plagubearer Flies, Disc Goats or Seekers do really make a punch out of nowhere. In addition a Khorne Lord on Jugger is fun but not nearly as key as Slaughterpriest giving Skullcrushers Bronze Flesh.

Plus lastly, the hero nobody really seems to talk about on the forums, Skarr, is the real goat if you want to have a survial hero anyway. ;) 

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2 hours ago, Killax said:

Both lists look like a cool and good thake on things. However there are still some things I would like you to consider.
First things first, on the topic of Blood Warriors, I think Gorefists are now simply said better as double axes. While 6+ on saves arn't still very common it's now on a unmodified 6+ roll. To me this is better as re-rolling one's. 

First list, Bloodmad Warband
The set up looks generally good. I am not huge on this Battalion however as it leaves no room to include the Wrathmonger and Skullcannon combination. Having said that, you do get powerful charges, if you charge.

A real consideration here is to look at Gore Pilgrims too. Same kind of set up, allows for more space within the army to include some ranged support and it doesn't force you to basically include 600 points of Blood Warriors. Don't get me wrong, Blood Warriors are okay, but I wouldn't spend more as 400 points into them if I don't have to. They can be a good anvil, but your army doesn't win allone by relying on that. 
Wrathmongers can make pretty much everything hammers, and to be fair Gore Pilgrims does this too, as extending the range of the Bloodsecrator has never been this relevant.

Second list, Slaughterborn
A form of Rend immunity is nice. But really that's all I can say about it. With certain armies like Nurgle or Legions of Nagash this works well with their ability to attrition in combat. Khorne doesn't do that. So I'm not really a fan of this Battalion.
Again I love the general set up here but would point towards Skulltake even before this one. As what we usually want is more damage output. Stuff dying is okay, as long as we trade up. Due to Blood Tithe points.

As a general advice for list building I'd say try to find a balance between anvils and hammers. Don't try to rely on either. With this I mean that there is no real reason to spend more as 500 points on Battleline units. There is no real reason to end up with a 1980 point list and on top of that your missing out on a few of the best Blades of Khorne units, being; Skarr, Wrathmongers, one or two Skullcannons with Wrathmongers, Bloodthirsters and Bloodletters.

I do think your doing a great job on focussing on the Goretide, just keep in mind that 2 Blood Warrior units are sufficient there as you don't really have more CP to hurl them upwards anyway. Then when you do and they do have Gorefist your opponent could really cut themselves too.

Hope this helps. If you want some direct responces or lists building tips, feel free to PM.

Cheers,

I just don’t have 30 Blood Warriors modeled with Gorefists unfortunately. If I did I would run them. I need more blood Warriors. I guess I could run counts as but it feels kind of bad cuz I built my army wysiwyg.

i also simply don’t own any daemons. I have SKARBRAND, 1 BToIR and 5 Flesh hounds. I don’t have any skullcannons or Bloodletters or anything so for now I’m stuck with mortals. 

Edited by Ravinsild
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So I went into games workshop to ask if the slaughterpriest can still cast a blood blessing and a prayer in the same hero phase (because my friends don’t believe they can) and the guy in gw told me no they can’t. Is he right? I think he’s wrong but because he works for gw my friends think he’s never wrong.

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