AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Mikeymajq]

I think all full rerolls aren't specifically for failed rolls in the book, if I'm not mistaken.

[AresX8]

9 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

The jugger lords demon axe is unmodified 6s now and his command trait is a questionable use of a CP in an army thats gonna want CP. All in all he is still fast'ish, killy, and sturdy. With right command trait and artifact he has potential. I still like the idea of him and some Skullcrushers rampaging across the field removing a vulnerable unit every turn if you can keep them from getting dug in too deep.

 

Also didn't Karanak used to have +2 to unbind? I find unbind very flakey without bonuses. Where can we get unbind bonuses now?

Karanak did not have a +2 to unbind, that's the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster, who still has the +2 to unbind.

 

8 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

I think all full rerolls aren't specifically for failed rolls in the book, if I'm not mistaken.

Correct, fishing for more mortal wounds by re-rolling an attack that already hit is totally an option.

[Towenaar]

12 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

The jugger lords demon axe is unmodified 6s now and his command trait is a questionable use of a CP in an army thats gonna want CP. All in all he is still fast'ish, killy, and sturdy. With right command trait and artifact he has potential. I still like the idea of him and some Skullcrushers rampaging across the field removing a vulnerable unit every turn if you can keep them from getting dug in too deep.

 

Also didn't Karanak used to have +2 to unbind? I find unbind very flakey without bonuses. Where can we get unbind bonuses now?

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster has +2 to unbind.

[Ravinsild]

Honestly I would love to run the Bloodmad Warband, I just don't know its point cost or the rules of what exactly it does. I can't remember which page someone posted all the battalion leaks either so I'm just running with what I know haha. 

I was talking to another buddy and he convinced me to change up my battleline, so now my Bloodreavers are just a tarpit (sort of) and my Blood Warriors are objective campers while my Khorgoraths and Skullreapers do the heavy lifting with copious support. If push comes to shove I can spend a CP to ensure something is immune to battleshock, same as Exalted Deathbringer, but I don't need to worry about positioning as much albeit it will only effect 1 unit.

Well I've taken the advice into consideration of every and this is my final revised first list I'm going to be running for awhile:

Allegiance: Khorne

Slaughterhost: Skullfiend Tribe

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (120)
- General - Command Trait: Master Decapitator - Artefact: Crowncleaver
Bloodstoker (80)
- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Goreaxe and Skullhammer

Battleline
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
40 x Bloodreavers (240)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
1 x Khorgoraths (100)
1 x Khorgoraths (100)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Skulltake (140)

Endless Spells

Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Wrath Axe (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

[Xasz]

3 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Bloodmad Warband

 

Spoiler

Aspiring Deathbringer

Blood secrator

3-6? Units of blood warriors

1-2 of blood reavers

1 unit of skull reapers

Add 1 to attacks when they charge* NOTE this one DOES NOT require being "wholly within" anything it just gets it. kinda sick.

160

 

[That Guy]

So for bloodreavers i decided to definitely go with meatripper axes, i’m convinced they are better. I still hesitate for my blood warriors. 1 person said going with the goreaxes means taking the most out of your warriors, because you’ll be using the re-rolling 1’s when you attack and when you die. Yet i see a lot of people go for the gorefists. Would like to hear some more voices on which of the wargear options is overall the better choice for blood warriors.

[Ravinsild]

22 minutes ago, Xasz said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Aspiring Deathbringer

Blood secrator

3-6? Units of blood warriors

1-2 of blood reavers

1 unit of skull reapers

Add 1 to attacks when they charge* NOTE this one DOES NOT require being "wholly within" anything it just gets it. kinda sick.

160

 

Ah, I don't like the forced 4 battleline requirement, especially all those bloodwarriors. They're fine I just personally prefer to have my offensive power in Skullreapers. 

[Zamik]

1 hour ago, Bjornas said:

By the way, wouldn’t this guy make for an awesome Slaughterpriest?

I think the Bloodied Saek model from that set would work out well too. Heck, buying Garrek's Reavers is cheaper than buying a standard Slaughterpriest, if you're willing to kitbash.

[Xasz]

25 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Ah, I don't like the forced 4 battleline requirement, especially all those bloodwarriors. They're fine I just personally prefer to have my offensive power in Skullreapers. 

I doubt that you would mind that too much in that setup because Blood Warriors are kinda your gimmick here.

My rought draft is something like this

Bloodsecrator

2x Priest

Aspiring Deathbringer

MLoK

Valkia

4x 10 Blood Warriors with Glaive

1x 5 Skullreapers

2x 10 Blood Reavers

Pushing the Skullreapers instead of a hero or a unit of Blood Warriors might be better but they become unwieldy fast.

[Ravinsild]

10 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I doubt that you would mind that too much in that setup because Blood Warriors are kinda your gimmick here.

My rought draft is something like this

Bloodsecrator

2x Priest

Aspiring Deathbringer

MLoK

Valkia

4x 10 Blood Warriors with Glaive

1x 5 Skullreapers

2x 10 Blood Reavers

Pushing the Skullreapers instead of a hero or a unit of Blood Warriors might be better but they become unwieldy fast.

Well I'll be hopefully playing this Sunday assuming I can get my judgements and Altar built in time (and assuming they arrive at my house on Saturday which I doubt. I feel like they'll SHIP on Saturday which means I won't be seeing them til probably Wednesday) and I'll put in a game against more than likely a guy who plays a /really/ strong Slaanesh list. Guess I'll see how my Skulltakers work :shrug: 

[ChaosUndivided]

48 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Ah, I don't like the forced 4 battleline requirement, especially all those bloodwarriors. They're fine I just personally prefer to have my offensive power in Skullreapers. 

Its ok if its what you're going for, i like 2 units of 10 and Magore. With the Goretide slaughterhost i could see this being a solid list. There is probably some good combo of units outside of battalion that can make this good.

 

47 minutes ago, Zamik said:

I think the Bloodied Saek model from that set would work out well too. Heck, buying Garrek's Reavers is cheaper than buying a standard Slaughterpriest, if you're willing to kitbash.

Garrek' models are nice but they would look tiny compared to real priest.

[kahadin]

31 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Garrek' models are nice but they would look tiny compared to real priest.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but this is really true. The reavers are man sized, while the priests are giants. It's not as cheap, but the exhalted dbs would be good with minimal conversion. 

[NemoVonUtopia]

1 hour ago, That Guy said:

So for bloodreavers i decided to definitely go with meatripper axes, i’m convinced they are better. I still hesitate for my blood warriors. 1 person said going with the goreaxes means taking the most out of your warriors, because you’ll be using the re-rolling 1’s when you attack and when you die. Yet i see a lot of people go for the gorefists. Would like to hear some more voices on which of the wargear options is overall the better choice for blood warriors.

I chose gorefists mostly for aesthetics and because since they do mortal wounds I figure they will result in more consistent damage if I have to make a similar amount of armour saves. 

I think which is best depends on what you are facing and I dont think there is a clear winner. Since each bloodwarrior could attack 4-10 times depending on buffs and if they attack first and then die, rerolling ones will always be useful but you have to go through the normal attack sequence to cause more damage. Gorefists depend on how many attacks are coming in so their usefulness depends on what is attacking them which is less controllable.

So just based off my opinions and experience I dont think there is a clear best choice overall. Idk what statistics says about it.

[Warbossironteef]

4 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

I chose gorefists mostly for aesthetics and because since they do mortal wounds I figure they will result in more consistent damage if I have to make a similar amount of armour saves. 

I think which is best depends on what you are facing and I dont think there is a clear winner. Since each bloodwarrior could attack 4-10 times depending on buffs and if they attack first and then die, rerolling ones will always be useful but you have to go through the normal attack sequence to cause more damage. Gorefists depend on how many attacks are coming in so their usefulness depends on what is attacking them which is less controllable.

So just based off my opinions and experience I dont think there is a clear best choice overall. Idk what statistics says about it.

I think you are right and it depends. Although I do think that you have better things to buff with attacks then Bloodwarriors. So if you are like me and plan on using Blood Warriors as really fast objective grabbers/screeners then the gorefist seems better. I can see three units of 5 in the Bloodmad battalion working out well. You woulnd't use them to be your main fighting force, but they can quickly get to your enemies units holding objectives or  weaker enemy support units if they are left unattended.

My idea is to use the Bloodmad with a 10 man Blood Warrior unit for more of kamakazi/screening unit, and then use the 2x5 man units to hunt down weak support units/fight other small enemy units on objectives. Then you can put your offensive resources into Reapers or  Reaver blocks. Just an idea. We will have to see it on the table!

[That Guy]

Anyone did do these maths between goreaxes and the new unmodified gorefists?

[Bjornas]

59 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

 

Garrek' models are nice but they would look tiny compared to real priest.

Yeah but switch those skulls he’s standing on to a huge rock, a 40mm base and you’re good, atleast in my group. Maybe a different paint job. I think Garrek would be cool standing on a decapitated body, holding the head as a fresh offering to Khorne. That’s what a Slaughterpriest should look like IMO, not like our barking drunkard standard model.

[andysonic1]

4 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Anyone did do these maths between goreaxes and the new unmodified gorefists?

There was some math being thrown around a number of pages ago but I'm unsure on how real world it was.

[That Guy]

6 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

So if you are like me and plan on using Blood Warriors as really fast objective grabbers/screeners then the gorefist seems better.

Right, I mainly own daemons and would at first use them as MSU/ or 10 man objective holders, but I also own a few mortal units and wouldn't mind expanding into a slaughterborn and bloodforged, or bloodmad. So I'm looking for the overall most useful one. I do fight all manner of armies, in my gaming group all the grand alliances are present. 

[That Guy]

3 minutes ago, andysonic1 said:

There was some math being thrown around a number of pages ago but I'm unsure on how real world it was.

This was math according to the old gorefists I remember. We are talking about the updated ones now that do mortals on unmodified saves of 6 at all times. 

[ChaosUndivided]

I think beyond 1 out of every 6 saving throws deals a mortal wound im not sure its an easy thing to calculate compared to attacks because saves are an unknown variable where attacks are known.

[Iron Fist]

 

Hello,

What is the best investment for you? bloodcrusher or skullcrusher?

[HollowHills]

If you have a warshrine you can take the priest that comes with it and put him on a 40mm base. He looks great as a slaughterpriest. If you want to use warshrine as well then either balance him on top (if you're not using him as a slaughterpriest) or put some etb bloodreavers on the shrine. 

I did this and it looked great (sad times I sold my old khorne). 

[ChaosUndivided]

This whole gorefist vs dual axe debate is a sticky subject for a number of reasons.

First off yes you can get aloy of extra attacks on Blood Warriors but as someone else pointed out there is better things to dump that many buffs on. In addition to that alot of those buffs are situational and/or not guaranteed.

Secondly someone raised the argument that the dual axe buff comes into play with the no respite rule, however, this is kinda a null point as to activate no respite you would of had to already have rolled numerous saving throws where gorefist could have been useful.

Third, even if you reroll hit rolls of 1 you still have to make a 4+ wound roll and then the opponent get a no rend saving throw. The gorefist hit for a mortal on a save roll of 6 regardless of rend and are much more likely to not be negated.

Lastly there is essentially a limit on the amount of attacks you can expect to make but depending on what you're fighting the number of saving throws could be dramatically high (think skeleton horde).

When you get right down to it i would say gorefist are hands down better.

[kahadin]

Honestly I'm not really sure there is a debate about axes over fists. Axes used to be the preferred choice so most oldbies went full axes and have over $200 of plastic glued dual axes. It would take a lot for someone in that camp to ever advocate gorefists. 

I really think that rr1 on a 3+ to hit is marginal, and for units like blood warriors a one in six chance for a mortal wound for each successful save way outweighs a few extra hits with a 4+ no rend weapon.

[Mikeymajq]

I'd personally go with the fists because blood warriors have a good to hit roll. It's their wound rolls that usually fail me.