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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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Don't Blood Warriors just get a passive reroll 1s from one of the new warhost now if their near an objective? 

The unit makes a much better anvil than it does hammer. Their so expensive that if you're using them without support for assault purposes than you're better off taking pretty much anything else.

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2 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Don't Blood Warriors just get a passive reroll 1s from one of the new warhost now if their near an objective? 

The unit makes a much better anvil than it does hammer. Their so expensive that if you're using them without support for assault purposes than you're better off taking pretty much anything else.

reroll wound rolls of 1.

It's true that bloodwarriors are more a anvil than a hammer, but gorefists don't make them more resilient either, to be honest :D

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Also, and this is pretty big in my book.....

Previously, Gorefists required a successful save, followed by a roll of a 6 to cause a mortal wound.

Now, they just require an unmodified roll of a 6 on a save roll, even if it fails due to rend.

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56 minutes ago, Choombatta said:

Also, and this is pretty big in my book.....

Previously, Gorefists required a successful save, followed by a roll of a 6 to cause a mortal wound.

Now, they just require an unmodified roll of a 6 on a save roll, even if it fails due to rend.

This is what I was thinking. Most haven’t realized that even if the rend voids your ability to block the damage. You can still on a 6 return a mortal wound. Seems much more valuable to return a mortal wound instead of the chance of re rolling a 1 on hit and then rolling a potential wound. Although this also makes me wonder that maybe small 5 man groups is best for reverberating damage. To get the most out of the ability to return damage via multiple units. 

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whats the benefit now to running in groups of 10?

 

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1 minute ago, phizzco said:

whats the benefit now to running in groups of 10?

 

Basically easier to buff with wholly within clause.

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Just now, ChaosUndivided said:

Basically easier to buff with wholly within clause.

as opposed to running in squads of 5?

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1 minute ago, phizzco said:

as opposed to running in squads of 5?

Goreglaive?

5 tend to not accomplish much of anything in my experience. I have always took them in 10s otherwise just save the points.

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Am I crazy or can we take skull cannons in squads? I always thought they were single model units, but 3 in a squad buffed by wrathmongers, killing frenzy, and bronzed flesh seems like a neat firebase around the altar

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I’ve had  decent success with a block of 10 Blood Warriors cordoning off objectives and keeping back reinforcements (this is generally how I keep my skullreapers alive), and the glaive is a nice little punch, though I wish I could get the extra champion attack with it.

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Part of the thing is that to me Blood Warriors kinda need some sort of buff support to be effective and any time you're passing buffs around you get more bang for your buck the bigger the unit.

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7 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

The more i think about these changes the more i like it. There seems to be a lot more flexibility in list building.

For 1 we're not tied to Secrator anymore, his buff is still great but without battleshock immunity and decreased range i don't think he is auto include. Now we got Exalted Death and comand points for that. Besides it was a pain when last Reaver didn't run off battlefield denying that blood tithe.

The Stoker is a lot more situational but his buff is also a lot better. No longer auto include, he pretty much blows in combat and taking up a hero slot that could be put to use for deadlier stuff.

The Slaughter Priest are still good but Judgments are not always gonna be more value than just starting with extra CP depending what you're fighting. The blessings took a hit not being stackable any longer. The only reason why this guy would be auto include is for dispell, which again situational, and you can take MLKoF for that job.

In a way they uncoupled the army from auto includes which is nice.

I agree completely! Right now, we actually do have more list flexibility. Granted, it’s now gonna have 1-2 Slaughterpriests in every list, but that was also technically the case before the book came out. And now we don’t have to use Murderhost/Gore Pilgrims (which are still very good, by the way)

7 hours ago, HollowHills said:

One word of warning about the warshrine. 

StD are highly likely to see a chaos undivided release and battletome. The warshrine warscroll could change dramatically. 

This is one thing that should be remembered. I think best thing to do is to make your Warshrine undivided, use it as Khorne for now until STD gets a battletome. However, hopefully the Darkoath get new priests/new cool hammer units that we can mark Khorne and use for us! 

5 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I've been wanting 3 Bloodthirsters for the longest time (Wrath of Khorne, Insensate Rage and SKARBRAND), but do I now need 4 to run anything viable? I love Bloodthirsters, but I feel like if I run 4 I literally don't have much more of an army. It feels like they're all or nothing though, you either commit to all of them, or run none. 1 BT will probably die too quick and then you just have a slightly weaker normal army with some points that could have gone elsewhere. IDK. 

I think 3 is enough. I’ll explain. In terms of Slaughterhost, I still prefer Blood Lords to reapers, because attacking first is a huge boon, and the Command ability cAn get you a LOT of mileage. I also feel that 2 battalions with this setup is important

You would want 1 bloodthirster of each type in a Tyrants of Blood, then 2-3 Slaughterpriests in Gore Pilgrims. 

No skarbrand, because he’s too slow. If you can miraculously fit in the points for him, by all means.

but Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers in MSU for Gore Pilgrims so they can grab objectives. Bloodsecrator is a little redundant, but this reduces your drops to 2, as gives you 2 artifacts and CPs. The first artifact you give, Halo of Blood should be for your general, the WoK BT. IR BT should have Ar’gath and fish for Carnage attacks. UF BT should also have 1 artifact, anything which increases his damage (like Death Dealer from the old battletome, +1 Damage is nuts)

Each Bloodthirster has a role to play, thanks to their Command ability. IR thirster saves some CPs thanks to that re-roll to charge, UF thirster allows your IR thirster to get into better position, your WoK BT can buff your other bloodthirsters. Especially Insensate rage who has a 4+ to hit if not whacking heroes. 

 

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Any word on if they are going to change any of the FW Khorne stuff?

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1 hour ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Part of the thing is that to me Blood Warriors kinda need some sort of buff support to be effective and any time you're passing buffs around you get more bang for your buck the bigger the unit.

The interesting thing is that our Blood Warriors have 2 things that many other battlelines lack. No respite (their glorious devotion to Khorne), and their gorefist (a nice spiky end to anyone who gets close). 

The thing is, I see why dual goreaxes are good. They are very receptive to buffs (toss in Bloodstoker to whip them, and now they’re rerolling hit rolls of 1, and all wound rolls, DANG). 

However, I prefer Gorefists because when a blood warrior successfully punches your face, it’s a mortal wound, no questions asked. No save roll, no hit roll, no wound roll. Somehow the guy’s jab is strong enough to punch through a 2+ Rerolling ones to save treelord ancient’s ancient oaken Armor, but meh

using dual goreaxes gets you rerolls to hit of 1, which is also very good. However, for that attack, you need to make another hit roll, another wound roll and then your opponent must fail his save roll. At each point, is a chance for your goreaxe to fail. The gorefist does NOT care for Attack sequence.

The gorefist is like that cool guy who barges in to a room, doesn’t give his name, steals your keys, smashes your face in, and leaves. He doesn’t follow the rules(of attack sequence). The dual goreaxes is like a gentleman who goes in, challenges you to a duel to the Death for your house keys, and is polite about it. HE follows the rules(of attack sequence)

As such, I’ll probably go for Gorefists. 

And remember, you’ve got quite a number of ways to re-roll hits. 

Khorghos Cool’s Command ability

Bloodsecrator banner of rage 

chaos warshrine

slaves to Darkness Lord of chaos

daemon artifact mark of the slayer

and probably more that I missed out

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14 minutes ago, jazman84 said:

Any word on if they are going to change any of the FW Khorne stuff?

I think the exalted Bloodthirster of khorne’s warscroll got updated for the new book (he’s like the Unfettered Fury in terms of rules now, just on steroids). 

I do however feel that skulltaker might be pretty worth. His command ability seems good for Bloodletters, and he’s actually really tanky thanks to his cloak of skulls (guess that most Warhammer model award did do something; it gave him a sense of dignity so he won’t die like a wuss)

what are your thoughts on Skulltaker? 

Also, I feel a Karanak got improved. He can dispel endless Spells and deal MWs o the caster. So if Nagash does throw around endless spells like no tomorrow.... I can’t get the image of Karanak just biting his butt wvery time out of my head... 

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So the list I'm most excited to try is:

Heros:

Bloodthirster of IR

Bloodsecrator

3x slaughterpriests

Battleline:

2x 10 bloodreavers

1x5 blood warriors

Units:

1x wrathmongers

1 unit of 3 skullcannons

Battaltion:

Gorepilgrims

Host:

Reapers of vengence

Judgements:

All 3

By my count thats 1880 points. Any suggestions on what to do with the extra points? Or what artifact to give the Bloodthirster?

The pointof the list is to castle up in front of the Altar, buff the skullcannons and use the battleline to take objectives while the Bloodthirster provides rerolls via locus and a big scary bodyguard.

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28 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Also, I feel a Karanak got improved. He can dispel endless Spells and deal MWs o the caster. So if Nagash does throw around endless spells like no tomorrow.... I can’t get the image of Karanak just biting his butt wvery time out of my head... 

I personally really dig Karanak he seems legit for reasons you say but also the 5 free hounds he can summon, which i think is gonna be hard to do sometimes.

But this is part of the reason i just can't stay mad about any of these changes. We have been so spoiled with all these new models and attention it feels like xmas. Its a good time to be a Khorne player lately.

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17 hours ago, Kaz said:

Right you are mate. I’ll admit, I was also a little disappointed about the whole endless prayers thing, heck, I was actually hoping for no terrain for Khorne. Buuut, I’m pretty much rationalizing (read: deluding) myself by seeing it as this: Throw your Judgements of Khorne at enemy ranged units to force them into GLORIOUS close combat (I remember Killax saying that earlier), remember: we aren’t being cowardly if the enemy started shooting us first!!! It’s only right for us to retaliate! Also I did

the bleeding icon wasn’t just a Damage Judgement :/ I love wrath-Axe and hexgorger skulls, but bleeding icon is kinda meh for me 

it will be a ton of fun using your judgements (like wrath-Axe) to rip through both your units AND your opponent’s units, albeit not competitive, but I do like that debuff, might help our lads survive

I'm okay with the idea behind it, it's just very, very strange that out of all thinks we get a wizard tower and khorne spells. I've also read the lore update on some book reviews and it's mentioned several thinks are changed in lore aswell. It's just again that I can't wrap my head around who made this happens.

What I do like is that the magical axe works, I also agree with you that there is enough to be said for what we got. While it really feels out of place for me :) I personally think that the magical axe even is a must thake, so are 1 to 2 Slaughterpriests, Re-rolls are good!

14 hours ago, jazman84 said:

I really can't get excited about this tome :(

To me it seems to be a case of:
"Current Khorne players already have the models they need; how do we get them to fork out?"
"I know! We'll give them Endless Spells Prayers.  Then they have to by the models"
"Oh and a battletome of course"

Because these changes are definiltey aimed at the current crop of Khorne players, cause they aren't going to get many new ones, by God.

Why would anyone want to pick these guys up now?

Where are my Berserk fighters tearing around the battlefield? Instead we are going to be plodding around while praying for magical ****** to fly around the battlefield. That's not fun, that's not Khorne...

Blades of Khorne? More like Radicals of Khorne...

They've totally lost their identity for mine 😕

I hear you and I really think the magic tower and spells show that appearantly GW didn't know what to do with Khorne AoS either, so just made something for them which they have made for all armies.

There are some serious moments where Khorne units will be able to dominate a single combat. So in that sence the beserkers are there. But yeah, we likely should be playing Slaughterpriests with Endless spells, because we got a free tower that makes that really reliable. 

Lorwise I feel the new new stuff doesn't match Khorne at all. But from a competitive standpoint you can still largely do what you wanted. My biggest miss is that there somehow arn't more Battleshock ignoring characters or rules. The idea of Khorne warriors being mad with frenzy and flee at the same time is just strange. Stranger even is that a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut, Skullcrushers and Mightly Lord of Khorne still don't have the Daemon Keyword. While their Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh counterparts do...

17 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

I'm super tempted to go Bloodforged with Skarr Bloodwrath and some attack buffs and ye olde screens of 10 reavers in front.

Maybe 10 man wrathmonger units could be a thing seeing as they are cheaper? 🤔

I'm not that worried about battleshock in an edition where 1 command point stops units from running and we do have quite a few buffs here and there to help as well. And I definitly wouldn't care about reavers running xD

I would also love to fling 20-30 blood warriors across the board at some point with ignoring one point of rend and full rerolls to wound just as a super annoying board control clog. 

Go for it. I do think that screens of Reavers arn't all to interesting, but screens of Fleshhounds most certainly are. 10 reaver units in the back for Objective purposes seems allright. 

I'm not worried about Battleshock too much either, enough daemons, just think it's very strange when we look at what armies have the immunities now and what Khorne armies are supposed to represent ;) 

For Bloodwarriors you could certainly do that. Though I do think more often pockets of 10 are ideal. Being functional at those sizes is their big advantage in my opinion. Gorefists are just very nice now!
 

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So for now it looks like I only have stuff for a Gore Pilgrims battalion. So thinking:

Wrath of Khorne
Slaughterpriest
Slaughterpriest
Slaughterpriest
Bloodsecrator
10x Blood Reavers
10x Blood Reavers
10x Blood Warriors
30x Bloodletters
5x Wrathmongers
3x Skullcrushers

Leaves me 140 points by my count. Skarr Bloodwrath perhaps?

Also, I have heard, but been unable to confirm, that different units in a BoK list can be from different Hosts. If true, that makes mixed mortals/daemons quite a bit better.

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35 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

So for now it looks like I only have stuff for a Gore Pilgrims battalion. So thinking:

Wrath of Khorne
Slaughterpriest
Slaughterpriest
Slaughterpriest
Bloodsecrator
10x Blood Reavers
10x Blood Reavers
10x Blood Warriors
30x Bloodletters
5x Wrathmongers
3x Skullcrushers

Leaves me 140 points by my count. Skarr Bloodwrath perhaps?

Also, I have heard, but been unable to confirm, that different units in a BoK list can be from different Hosts. If true, that makes mixed mortals/daemons quite a bit better.

I like that horde of bodies you have! That’s a lot of wounds (which is really useful). Personally I’d recommend using those last few points for more Wrathmongers. Skarr is very good, but the Wrathmongers tend to have better punch, and they can give your list more hitting power. 

On the other hand, why the 3 Skullcrushers? Is it for a road block, or as a hammer unit?

Your list is slow, but you flood the board with a ton of wounds that some lists might actually not be able to stop. 

I do think that the Mark of the Slayer artifact would be quite useful here as it buffs all Khorne units, not just Daemons, 

@Bululuis it true you can take a mortal and daemon slaughterhost? If so that would be awesomeeeee

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3 hours ago, Killax said:

I'm okay with the idea behind it, it's just very, very strange that out of all thinks we get a wizard tower and khorne spells. I've also read the lore update on some book reviews and it's mentioned several thinks are changed in lore aswell. It's just again that I can't wrap my head around who made this happens.

What I do like is that the magical axe works, I also agree with you that there is enough to be said for what we got. While it really feels out of place for me :) I personally think that the magical axe even is a must thake, so are 1 to 2 Slaughterpriests, Re-rolls are good!

I hear you and I really think the magic tower and spells show that appearantly GW didn't know what to do with Khorne AoS either, so just made something for them which they have made for all armies.

There are some serious moments where Khorne units will be able to dominate a single combat. So in that sence the beserkers are there. But yeah, we likely should be playing Slaughterpriests with Endless spells, because we got a free tower that makes that really reliable. 

Lorwise I feel the new new stuff doesn't match Khorne at all. But from a competitive standpoint you can still largely do what you wanted. My biggest miss is that there somehow arn't more Battleshock ignoring characters or rules. The idea of Khorne warriors being mad with frenzy and flee at the same time is just strange. Stranger even is that a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut, Skullcrushers and Mightly Lord of Khorne still don't have the Daemon Keyword. While their Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh counterparts do...

Go for it. I do think that screens of Reavers arn't all to interesting, but screens of Fleshhounds most certainly are. 10 reaver units in the back for Objective purposes seems allright. 

I'm not worried about Battleshock too much either, enough daemons, just think it's very strange when we look at what armies have the immunities now and what Khorne armies are supposed to represent ;) 

For Bloodwarriors you could certainly do that. Though I do think more often pockets of 10 are ideal. Being functional at those sizes is their big advantage in my opinion. Gorefists are just very nice now!
 

This reminds me of the old frenzy special rule (oh how I missed Khorne halberd chaos warriors)

when they did lose combat, they would lose frenzy, so when failing battleshock, it would feel like the trauma of battle finally forces the blood maddened warriors out of their rage. 

One of my favorite pieces of fluff was Call of Archaon’s Ushkar Mir, where his second-in-Command Skull was talking to a dying Bloodreaver, who had actually become lucid and was regretting becoming a Bloodbound. It was an interesting perspective, which was different from the usual endless rage of these normally insane Berserkers.  

At least, our guys can stack attacks like no tomorrow, so you can imagine a blood warrior whaling tirelessly on a liberator’s Shield. So I suppose that feels berserker-ish. 

It’s similar to how undead and daemons shouldn’t flee, yet they  do in AOS, but have very high bravery. But I remember Daemons having Daemonic instability, where they could disappear back to the Warp, while undead could crumble when losing a fight, or when their Vampire lord General  died. 

Admittedly; I remember a poster earlier who talked about how there’s a hard conundrum for Geedubs: If we stay the same, we get accused of being stale, repetitive, unable to do anything except charge at the enemy and hope for the best (basically Ironjawz), leading to us being labeled as one-dimensional with little depth.

But when the Blades of Khorne actually see change, outsiders accuse Khorne of being hypocritical, while Khorne players roll their eyes in exasperation at GW going against our old established lore that’s been here for so long. 

i can honestly understand why GW would find it so hard about what to do with Khorne. But I can also understand why some are triggered about GW giving years of old lore the finger.  

And we’re champions of Khorne. It’s unfair to expect us to embrace change so easily, that’s for tzeentchian geeks. But we’ll have to adapt. I mean, Khorne is the god of war. To win our wars, we’ll be forced to adapt. 

But hey, we’ve got some sick models, a cool new book, so we might as well make the most of it. And we have reason to suspect when the other Chaos god’s Armies get updated, their mortal followers will lose the daemon keyword, to stop abuse such as harbingers of decay with witherstave, and they will probably get toned down considerably (Enlightened on discs spam is still a thing)

I also remember another poster earlier who felt that the lore was bad because it was only killmaimburn endlessly, which I completely agree with. Ok, not exactly in terms of killmaimburn (that’s 40k, it’s Kharn’s tagline!), but basically how one-dimensional the fluff written by GW can be. 

in this case, this is where we have to step in. One of the best things about AOS is the sheer freedom of writing our own fluff for our warbands. One Khorne warband could be the normal boring screaming  horde of maniac barbarians. Another could be the calm but disciplined warriors with actual fortresses,  back in warqueen(awesome book btw), my warband literally focuses on honor and making oaths, like the dwarf slayers of old, while still hunting the mightiest of monsters/heroes to offer to khorne. 

This is unlike 40K, where the fluff is much more established, so you have a little bit less freedom in creating your own heroes and protagonists (I love writing and reading fantasy stories btw)

so there you have it. Sorry for the long post, felt I had to get that out.

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Just so that i'm clear, wholly within is all of the models base within x" of the the edge of the hero's base?

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9 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

Just so that i'm clear, wholly within is all of the models base within x" of the the edge of the hero's base?

Yep, that's what it is. There used to be argument that it was each model just had to have part of the base within x", but they cleared it up at some point

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2 hours ago, Kaz said:

I like that horde of bodies you have! That’s a lot of wounds (which is really useful). Personally I’d recommend using those last few points for more Wrathmongers. Skarr is very good, but the Wrathmongers tend to have better punch, and they can give your list more hitting power. 

On the other hand, why the 3 Skullcrushers? Is it for a road block, or as a hammer unit?

Your list is slow, but you flood the board with a ton of wounds that some lists might actually not be able to stop. 

I do think that the Mark of the Slayer artifact would be quite useful here as it buffs all Khorne units, not just Daemons, 

@Bululuis it true you can take a mortal and daemon slaughterhost? If so that would be awesomeeeee

Im kinda confused on this one, first it says select a host all your army gets that host keyword, but on next paragraph it says, a unit cant have more than 1 host, but this doesnt prevent for having units with different host in your army.   Im not a native english so i will say wait for some english/american guy to get a full comprehensive read of the host rules and verify this xD (i also have a non-english battletome wich says the same, im inclined to think that you can have multiple hosts, but cant really confirm)

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I gotta say it would be really great if khorne had something like a Bloodthirster that wasnt a hero, as we are so over saturated in this department! I'm hoping i can get Skulltaker or Karanak in my games as the new models are sweet, but its gonna be hard

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