AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[AresX8]

3 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

Yeah having to rely on a cheap hero being alive is a bit of a  downer. But yeah 30 blood warriors with that kind of threat range is a prettt sick board controller. And I think the updated bloodstoker is their new best friend tbh. 

Also it's changed. It's not ignore rend -1. It worsens the enemies rend by 1. Which is sooo much better

...I gotta finish my chaos warshrine now for maximum tankyness. Plus that reroll to hit prayer is so good!

I just finished building my Warshrine last night! Its Protection from the Dark Gods aura not being a wholly within aura is great considering how big of a base it's on... so keep that congo line going!

 

 

2 hours ago, Xasz said:

Yeah, it's pretty much between resanguination and bronzed flesh for the second priest.

I'm currently taking Bronzed Flesh and a single Killing Frenzy. Resanguination or Blood Sacrifice would be the 3rd blessing I'd take.
 

1 hour ago, Xasz said:

I really hope this is a mess up from GW and will be FAQ'd in ~2 weeks. :[

Yeah I hope it's a typo, because GHB 2018 doesn't have a limit on how many units are summoned, but now the battletome does...uh, what?
 

9 minutes ago, Dan.Ford said:

I also hope this changes is not true, ALL the summoning armies can normall summon any number of units , as long as they had the points. If they have restricted it to one unit , that is very .... poor .

It's correct. I looked at the exact text as shown in the BOLS overview video of the battletome and as written, we can only summon 1 unit at a time.

[Xasz]

1 minute ago, AresX8 said:

I'm currently taking Bronzed Flesh and a single Killing Frenzy. Resanguination or Blood Sacrifice would be the 3rd blessing I'd take.

My plan is to give the BToIR the weapon that allows him to hit on 2+ against heroes and skip the reroll prayer.

[ChaosUndivided]

4 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

I just finished building my Warshrine last night! Its Protection from the Dark Gods aura not being a wholly within aura is great considering how big of a base it's on... so keep that congo line going!

Dont forget that thing has totem keyword and with reavers new warscroll wording its now even better.

[AresX8]

6 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Dont forget that thing has totem keyword and with reavers new warscroll wording its now even better.

 

Yup! The Warshrine is following around Bloodreavers that are in a Bloodmad Warband. It's also a great Priest to throw out the Hexgorger Skulls since it's moving much faster than the Slaughterpriests. 

[Ravinsild]

I am interested in the Bloodman Warband because the effects remind me of the Butcher's Nails Legion trait for World Eaters, but unfortunately it doesn't effect ALL units like the Butcher's Nails do. 

[Zamik]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I think for now this will be the list I run with going with the Skullfiend Tribe perk:

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (120)
- General
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
1 x Khorgoraths (90)

Battalions
Skulltake (190)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 144
 

Be careful though, Skullreapers and Khorgoraths have gone up by 10 points each in matched play.

[Ravinsild]

22 minutes ago, Zamik said:

Be careful though, Skullreapers and Khorgoraths have gone up by 10 points each in matched play.

The battalion has gone down 50 points so it's a wash. It's the same points 880 overall, however what's interesting is that is IS cheaper if I didn't max out the battalion, which may or may not be worth doing now considering some things have changed in the wording.

Essentially the incentive before was that if you had a full battalion /everyone/ in the battalion got the benefit of adding 1 to their damage characteristic if they rolled a 6 or more (now it's just unmodified) and were within 12'' of the bloodstoker. So that meant Khorgoraths and Blood Warriors/Reavers too. Now it does not do that. 

In addition it lost the extra 3 attacks to Khorgoraths. It may be worth it dropping a Khorgorath and unit of Skullreapers to bring Wrathmongers for more buffs or something. 

[Galdenistal]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I think for now this will be the list I run with going with the Skullfiend Tribe perk:

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (120)
- General
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
1 x Khorgoraths (90)

Battalions
Skulltake (190)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 144

The problem I'm kind of predicting with armies like this, is that you now have too many units that care about battleshock.

I'm thinking about a new style of army, where we have units of 10 Bloodreavers that we don't care about and then maybe 2 big units to do 'stuff' with that we protect with command points and any other battleshock immunity that we can find. For the rest of the army we then just use single models (therefore ignore battleshock) to do the rest of our damage .. like Bloodthristers, other killy heroes, skull cannons, priests etc.

[leeroyT]

Can Skarbrand take the  Choas runeblade in a mixed Chaos army and use the additional attack with his new rules?

[Ravinsild]

4 minutes ago, Galdenistal said:

The problem I'm kind of predicting with armies like this, is that you now have too many units that care about battleshock.

I'm thinking about a new style of army, where we have units of 10 Bloodreavers that we don't care about and then maybe 2 big units to do 'stuff' with that we protect with command points and any other battleshock immunity that we can find. For the rest of the army we then just use single models (therefore ignore battleshock) to do the rest of our damage .. like Bloodthristers, other killy heroes, skull cannons, priests etc.

Skullreapers are innately immune to battleshock. The only units that will need to take it are the Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers. I could replace aspiring champion for a skullgrinder to give +1 to bravery, but Khorogoraths are 1 unit by themselves so when they die they die they don't do battleshock and the rest are heroes. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Ravinsild

[Zamik]

1 minute ago, Galdenistal said:

The problem I'm kind of predicting with armies like this, is that you now have too many units that care about battleshock.

 

But Skullreapers no longer take battleshock tests at all, according to the warscroll. They're a lot less dependent on buff auras etc, since they already rock a good number of attacks each.

[Hystarion]

5 minutes ago, leeroyT said:

Can Skarbrand take the  Choas runeblade in a mixed Chaos army and use the additional attack with his new rules?

He's named, so no artefact/traits on him

[Ravinsild]

Now that I think on it, I may drop a unit of Skullreapers and a Khorgorath to add a unit of Wrathmongers and a Warshrine for the 6+ save, another blessing (resanguination?) and of course the ability to pray to re-roll all failed hit rolls to a unit of my choosing (Skullreapers versus any unit of 4 or less I reckon?). 

A fully buffed Skullreaper unit of 5 would be an absolute nightmare. Bloodstoker grants re-rolling all wounds, between the Shrine and 5+ units they are fighting re-rolling all hits, Warshrine 6+ Feel No Pain save, Slaughterpriest +1 to hit blessing, Slaughterpriest +1 to save blessing, Bloodsecrator, Wrathmonger and Aspiring Champion add +3 attacks for 7 attacks per man total for 35 attacks, natural 6's do mortal wounds on hit rolls, natural 6's do double damage on wounds rolls, battleshock immune bloodthirsty berzerkers who do mortal wounds if they die. 

I imagine they could destroy just about any unit in the game. 

[phizzco]

I think the big thing missing there is rend.

[Xasz]

32 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I imagine they could destroy just about any unit in the game. 

You just killed about 15 Nurgle Marauders, I guess I'll sleep well tonight.

[Ravinsild]

5 minutes ago, Xasz said:

You just killed about 15 Nurgle Marauders, I guess I'll sleep well tonight.

What are nurgle marauders? lol Are nurgle marauders hard to kill or were you being sarcastic?

Oh also there's 4 attacks with the mutant hand which has -1 rend and D3 damage :shrug:

Edited March 19, 2019 by Ravinsild

[HollowHills]

17 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

What are nurgle marauders?

Glottkin gives them two wounds in a unit of 40 with a 5 up save vs no rend I think. 

[HollowHills]

Getting anything useful wholly within 8 of a stoker seems pretty tough. It's probably the smallest buff range out of anything I can think of. My idoneth have a few wholly within 12 abilities that affect thralls (also on 32mm) and its really hard to keep stuff in range unless they are 10 man units. 32mm bases are larger than an inch so I'm thinking maybe at best you can get 20 models in if you have them ranked in 5s during set up and the stoker next to them. Good luck getting anything in range after one turn of moving or charging though.

Chaos warshrine seems ridiculously good now, probably your most reliable way to get judgements and prayers off due to high wounds. The baseline prayer that lets you reroll all failed hits (no wholly within) is likely to be very effective. 

I reckon most lists will be running 2 battalions at 2k points. I suspect gore pilgrims plus one another. Having multiple artefacts is likely to benefit khorne over many armies due to the need to take multiple heroes. Consider as well that with gore tide you can happily have two heroes with unmodifiable saves if you so chose. 

If multiple battalions are likely to be used I don't see battleshock as a big issue. Bloodtithe generally encourages using small units with the exception of bloodreavers, bloodwarriors and skullcrushers. Skullcrushers with a banner now have a bravery of 8, which ought to be sufficient given they are 4 wound models with a 3 up. As such I think spending individual command points to prevent battleshock is likely to be more cost effective than paying the points for an exalted deathbringer. 

 

 

[Forrix]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

Now that I think on it, I may drop a unit of Skullreapers and a Khorgorath to add a unit of Wrathmongers and a Warshrine for the 6+ save, another blessing (resanguination?) and of course the ability to pray to re-roll all failed hit rolls to a unit of my choosing (Skullreapers versus any unit of 4 or less I reckon?). 

A fully buffed Skullreaper unit of 5 would be an absolute nightmare. Bloodstoker grants re-rolling all wounds, between the Shrine and 5+ units they are fighting re-rolling all hits, Warshrine 6+ Feel No Pain save, Slaughterpriest +1 to hit blessing, Slaughterpriest +1 to save blessing, Bloodsecrator, Wrathmonger and Aspiring Champion add +3 attacks for 7 attacks per man total for 35 attacks, natural 6's do mortal wounds on hit rolls, natural 6's do double damage on wounds rolls, battleshock immune bloodthirsty berzerkers who do mortal wounds if they die. 

I imagine they could destroy just about any unit in the game. 

Definitely good but I wouldn't say its that's crazy.  Major consideration is the likelihood of getting all those buffs off when you need them. Just for starters they'd need to be wholly within 8 of the Bloodstoker, 8 of the Wrathmongers, 16 of the Bloodsecrator, and 12 of the Aspiring Champion (who will also need a command point). Plenty of other units can go bananas if you can stack a bucket of buffs onto them.  

For example, Plague Monks can get to 9 attacks each, rerolling all failed hits and wounds, natural 6's do double damage on wounds rolls, natural 6s do extra rend on hit rolls and cause a mortal wound in addition to regular damage, +1 run and +1 charge, can run and charge, -1 to hit in melee, -2 to hit with shooting, double their wounds, when they die on a 6 they do a mortal wound to the unit that killed them. Hell, probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

[Xasz]

15 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

4 wound models with a 3 up

5 wounds.

Bloodstoker is just a lot more dedicated to a single unit than before and will probably a lot less frequent than before.

I don't see double battalions being super common. All of them are a commitment to a certain setup and forcing in another one feels like diluting that initial setup. Not to mention that they got a lot weaker with just one bonus rule. I might  be wrong though, just felt unnecessary in my drafts over the last couple days. (another artifact and CP would be nice)

Edited March 19, 2019 by Xasz

[ChaosUndivided]

The more i think about these changes the more i like it. There seems to be a lot more flexibility in list building.

For 1 we're not tied to Secrator anymore, his buff is still great but without battleshock immunity and decreased range i don't think he is auto include. Now we got Exalted Death and comand points for that. Besides it was a pain when last Reaver didn't run off battlefield denying that blood tithe.

The Stoker is a lot more situational but his buff is also a lot better. No longer auto include, he pretty much blows in combat and taking up a hero slot that could be put to use for deadlier stuff.

The Slaughter Priest are still good but Judgments are not always gonna be more value than just starting with extra CP depending what you're fighting. The blessings took a hit not being stackable any longer. The only reason why this guy would be auto include is for dispell, which again situational, and you can take MLKoF for that job.

In a way they uncoupled the army from auto includes which is nice.

[Darksteve]

So how to people feel about a hero compliment of 3 slaughter priests, a warshrine, a bloodsecrator, and a Bloodthirster at 2k? Filling the list around them will obviously have an impact, but having access to 4 priest models seems really neat.

Also I was always under the impression that we didnt get blood tithe if the last model fled to battleshock. Is that not true?

Edited March 19, 2019 by Darksteve

[Ravinsild]

7 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

So how to people feel about a hero compliment of 3 slaughter priests, a warshrine, a bloodsecrator, and a Bloodthirster at 2k? Filling the list around them will obviously have an impact, but having access to 4 priest models seems really neat.

Which bloodthirster though? haha

[Zamik]

10 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

 

Also I was always under the impression that we didnt get blood tithe if the last model fled to battleshock. Is that not true?

I've always assumed you get the tithe for fleeing units, since they count as "slain" per the Core Rules.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Zamik

[Luke1705]

So here’s a list thought:

Reapers of Vengeance

Exalted Thirster (khartogh the blood hungerer - 4+ in fight phase goes first like fanatics)

Skarbrand

Wrath Thirster

Rage Thirster (general - 2+ FNP vs magic, deny on 8 auto denies and causes d6 mortals to caster)

Tyrants of Blood

10 Reavers

10 Reavers

10 Reavers

1930

 

Obviously one-dimensional but what it does, it does really well. As long as they get to hit first, they hit last. A more balanced version probably drops either one of the small thirsters or downgrades the big guy to a small thirster for a priest and the axe spell plus some more chaff