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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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1 hour ago, ledha said:

i won't speak about the thirster because it's not my expertise

However, wrathmongers don't buff ennemy units anymore and buff khorne units much more easily. This alone is very cool. Sure, they won't make a big monster hit itself anymore, but each wrathmonger killed will create 1 MW in aoe, at least. This can do some VERY nasty damages, and make the units much easier to use and efficient against a bigger variety of units.

The skullreapers lost the two handed weapon, but gained one more attack (4 instead of 3) and hit on 3+ now. They lost the reroll wound after killing lot of ennemy models, but will reroll hits against pretty much anything. They are basically khorne blightking.

One 5-man unit with one bloodsecrator around will do 25 attacks 3+ (reroll all against 95% of the units of the game)/3+/-/1 and more than half a dozen mortal wound +2 attacks from the mutation. Add a bloodstocker (a frequent combo) and they reroll al wound rolls as well. And murderous to the last is slightly better than before.

Bloodletters are nerfed in their maximum output. However, it also mean they don't require heavy babysitting, and mortal wounds in addition of damages (and not instead of them) make them better than before in small number/unbuffed, and they don't really care of -1 to hit too.

Plus don't forget all your demons have locus of fury now.

Bloodstoker is nerfed in his demons interactions too, but reroll all wounds is incredible !

I been building Skarbrand to try playing Council of Blood and now I will probably play pure mortal, which is anoying. They don't suck, but around 300 points for 14 wounds with 4+ and not hitting that hard unless you use command ability and artifact on them, and now with WoKB command ability nerf they are also slower. They are just not worth their points unless there are some new rules we have not seen yet. 

Wrathmongers warscroll don't really look bad, true. But they no longer do what most Khorne players used them for in the first place. They made people with good combat monsters be carefull, they where a major part of my plan to handle the new FEC monster lists. How they are a walking buff that can do some dmg. 

Skullreapers are better for hordes and will probably see quite a bit of play.

Bloodletters are also better at hordes and worse at big stuff, which was what I used them for.

I'm sure I will figure out some new. Thinking about it now, the nerfs or changes might not make the units suck. But they no longer do what I put them in my army for in the first place. Which means my list will not work at all. So will have to come up with something different. I mostly play at a club where I will do with that, but I'm also just starting to go to tournaments and for that I'm worried.

Also, one of the things we had going for us as Khorne was good battalions, many seem to have been made a lot weaker.

Edited by Silchas_Ruin
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15 minutes ago, Bululu said:

bloodletters 110/300

reavers 70/240

warriors 100/520

bloodcrushers 140 

mighty skullcrushers 180

korghorath 100

skullreapers 180

wrathmongers 140

skulltaker 120

slaughtherpriest 100 

bloodsecrator 140

bloodstoker 80

Wow. Ouch.

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full 4 "houses" or clans, they seem free you can get only 1 "clan" per unit but you can have different clans 

There appear to be something like FEC houses

 

one of the is about daemons called like "revenge reapers"

- add 1d3 to the models that run away after a failed battleshock test 3'' of any unit of "revenge reapers"

- command ability "no one survives" select a friendly "revenge reapers" daemon unit wholy within  8''  after the first time this unit fights in the combat phase if it remains 3'' of an enemy unit, this unit can inmediatly pile in and attack for a second time with all its weapons

- mandatory trait : this general can unbind 1 spell as he was a mage, if he  rolls an 8 he unbinds and caster takes 1d6 mw

- mandatory artifact: everytime user is affected by a spell or endless spells he ignores its effects on a 2+

 

other one for the daemons "bloodlords":

- units of this clan can repeat results of 1 to wound when you target monsters or hero

-command ability: you can heal 1 wound from each friendly clan unit completely within 16''

-mandatory trait: add 4'' to this general movement, you can repeat charge rolls for this general

-mandatory artifact: bearer attacks first on every combat phase, he cant fight again on that phase unless a ability or spell allows him to do it (goes even before FEC)

 

other one is for mortals called something like "goretide mortals"

- you can repeat results of 1 to wound for "goretide mortals" units wholy within 12'' of an objective

- command ability "always forward" choose one "goretide mortals" bloodreaver or blood warrior unit completly within 16'' before rolling to run for it, the run roll is 6 and that unit can charge and run on the same turn

-mandatory trait: add 1 to the damage of all combat weapons of this heneral

-mandatory artifact: ethereal amulet with different name :D 

 

another mortal one "daemonnskull"?

- mortal unit of this clan can repeat results of 1 to hit while they are wholy within 12'' of an enemy hero

- command ability: on start of  combat phase, friendly khorgorat units of this clan  completely within 10'' repeat to hit and to wound until the end of the phase

- mandatory trait: you get 2 bloodtithe instead of 1 when you kill a hero

- mandatory artifact : pick a weapon, add 2 attacks to it

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Holy moly, well if all that's right... Here I was thinking I might spend a couple hundred dollars picking up a council of blood or some blood reavers or whatever. As is, yeah no. Unless there are some incredibly good clans that weren't mentioned I'm not even going to bother picking up the book. Going through the warscrolls there are... maybe 2 or 3 that got objectively better? The rest are either a sideways shift or worse. Blood warriors, some of the lamest infantry in the game, have gotten worse. Wrath of khorne bloodthirster is worse. Skullreapers are worse. I own hundreds of dollars of models that are now utterly irrelevant. Sigh.

Edited by Grimrock
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R.I.P to all those who have build their blood warrior chaos champions with goreglaives and now need to tear them apart and give the goreglaive to a different blood warrior. I don't think i will be using plastic glue in the future 😓

I am fine with changes to warscrolls like skullreapers, they did it in a way that you don't really care what weapon options you have built them with as they faction the same. But the way they handled blood warriors is very unfriendly to those who want to keep their miniatures wysiwyg . The goreglaive was not a weapon that could be spammed like with some warscrolls for other armies that were changed in the past, so this really came out of the blue.

The Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut nerf was also unnecessary.

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I know everyone's pretty gloom and doom, but as someone who's force is mostly Bloodreavers and Blood Warriors I'm very happy with the update. I think everyone needs to look at everything that changed TOGETHER instead of as individual tweaks. You can make your models work, it will just be different now.

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1 hour ago, Bululu said:

full 4 "houses" or clans, they seem free you can get only 1 "clan" per unit but you can have different clans 

There appear to be something like FEC houses

 

one of the is about daemons called like "revenge reapers"

- add 1d3 to the models that run away after a failed battleshock test 3'' of any unit of "revenge reapers"

- command ability "no one survives" select a friendly "revenge reapers" daemon unit wholy within  8''  after the first time this unit fights in the combat phase if it remains 3'' of an enemy unit, this unit can inmediatly pile in and attack for a second time with all its weapons

- mandatory trait : this general can unbind 1 spell as he was a mage, if he  rolls an 8 he unbinds and caster takes 1d6 mw

- mandatory artifact: everytime user is affected by a spell or endless spells he ignores its effects on a 2+

 

other one for the daemons "bloodlords":

- units of this clan can repeat results of 1 to wound when you target monsters or hero

-command ability: you can heal 1 wound from each friendly clan unit completely within 16''

-mandatory trait: add 4'' to this general movement, you can repeat charge rolls for this general

-mandatory artifact: bearer attacks first on every combat phase, he cant fight again on that phase unless a ability or spell allows him to do it (goes even before FEC)

 

other one is for mortals called something like "goretide mortals"

- you can repeat results of 1 to wound for "goretide mortals" units wholy within 12'' of an objective

- command ability "always forward" choose one "goretide mortals" bloodreaver or blood warrior unit completly within 16'' before rolling to run for it, the run roll is 6 and that unit can charge and run on the same turn

-mandatory trait: add 1 to the damage of all combat weapons of this heneral

-mandatory artifact: ethereal amulet with different name :D 

 

another mortal one "daemonnskull"?

- mortal unit of this clan can repeat results of 1 to hit while they are wholy within 12'' of an enemy hero

- command ability: on start of  combat phase, friendly khorgorat units of this clan  completely within 10'' repeat to hit and to wound until the end of the phase

- mandatory trait: you get 2 bloodtithe instead of 1 when you kill a hero

- mandatory artifact : pick a weapon, add 2 attacks to it

Well if this is acurate then some of these clans are good. Depending on battallions and other artifacts could make some interesting armies. 

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2 hours ago, Bululu said:

bloodletters 110/300

reavers 70/240

warriors 100/520

bloodcrushers 140 

mighty skullcrushers 180

korghorath 100

skullreapers 180

wrathmongers 140

skulltaker 120

slaughtherpriest 100 

bloodsecrator 140

bloodstoker 80

Mostly the same. Bigger changes being Skullcrushers, Wrathmongers, Skullreapers, and Skulltaker. 

What are the points for Bloodthirsters and Skarbrand? 

Edited by TheHarrower
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2 hours ago, Bululu said:

skull take 140 pts

 1 stoker

2-3 skullreapers

1-2 khorgorath

0-2 bloodwarriors/bloodreavers

if the unmodified wound roll for a ranged weapon of a unit of this battalion is 6 and this unit is completly within 12'' of this battalion bloodstoker, add 1 to that weapon damage for this attack

The only ranged weapon in there is the khorgorath’s 3 3+ 4+ rendless 1 damage attacks!  140 pts for the chance to score an extra damage on unmodified 6s to wound? Hot dog! 

 

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I don't recall anyone jumping for joy when they announced new battletome. I thought most people already assumed it was probably not gonna be good news for an army that largely relied on pre 2.0 rules to be competitive.

I think regardless of what happens here that in the long run this book will bring Khorne in line with the future of AoS and down the road we will be better for it. Don't forget GHB 19 isn't far away.

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31 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

I don't recall anyone jumping for joy when they announced new battletome. I thought most people already assumed it was probably not gonna be good news for an army that largely relied on pre 2.0 rules to be competitive.

I think regardless of what happens here that in the long run this book will bring Khorne in line with the future of AoS and down the road we will be better for it. Don't forget GHB 19 isn't far away.

I'm sure that Khorne overall will be decent once the book is out and people have had a fair chance to go through everything, but I just don't want to have to go out and buy a whole new armies worth of models to make things work. I've got a wrath of khorne bloodthirster that I  bought, built, and spent way too long painting because I was inspired by his command ability. He's pretty much a very expensive paperweight now with the new rules. Bloodletters were bought for a heavy alpha strike unit, skullreapers for a second wave cleanup... None of these units work the same way anymore. I didn't expect everything to stay the same, but I also wasn't expecting to see pretty much everything I own kicked in the pants either. 

Bleh. I'll stop complaining now and wait until I've seen the actual book. Gotta hope I'm missing something because as it stands I just don't understand how the army is supposed to function anymore.

Edited by Grimrock
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Before we get too negative about it. I think as of now the book is pretty versatile in its current state. I think we’re really underestimating the small points adjustments and the buffs with the clans and the endless prayers. I mean the current book just won a tournament prebuff.

 

also khorgoraths were a hidden strong unit. Its a free blood tithe point that can easily kill a chaff wall and generate another before it suicides. I think 100 is more fair. A lot of top end khorne players were talking on twitter about running 2 or 3. I saw one show he had 6 painted. 

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I had a way I liked to play and a new book came out and made it impossible to play that way. I know we need to adapt to a new environment, but I really enjoyed playing my army. Even when losing I still enjoyed playing the game, but I'm not excited about this stuff and really lost me spark for it.

I think some things got better, so maybe I'm just being "special needs." For example I havn't run the numbers, but I think skullreapers might be better unbuffed than they were before. I refuse to beleive they are near their strenth with a killing frenzy without seeing the hard numbers, but not requiring a buff is probably a good thing.

I also ironically hate the new skullcrushers. I used to use them as a blocking unit. 15 4+4++ wounds with a huge footprint. Their charge is amped up now, so you would be stupid to leave them stationary to try to control the play area... You lose a lot by not charging with them and their points appear to have gone up quite a bit. I also know their save got better, but I'm afraid I will miss those shields. Perhaps we will have magic locked down so hard they won't need their shields anymore, so who knows.

Bloodbind makes me want to cry. Like really 4 real. My favorite psychic power was lash of slaanesh, or that spell in fantasy that moved a unit the way you wanted. I think you can still do great things with it, but 4-6" will make it tough. I think in some ways it can be an improvement. Put a unit within 4 inches of a stretched out line and they will move only a few models in contact and be stuck piling in all game if they don't retreat...

Ah hell. I'll probably like the new book alright, but complaining about it sure relieves my feelings.

Edit: I'm already feeling better. I only ever took gorepilgrims for the reroll prayers. Now that our batallions are (you know what)I just gained 180 points I din't have before.

Edited by kahadin
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3 hours ago, TheHarrower said:

Mostly the same. Bigger changes being Skullcrushers, Wrathmongers, Skullreapers, and Skulltaker. 

What are the points for Bloodthirsters and Skarbrand? 

insensate rage 280, fury 300, wrath 320, skarbrand 400

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