AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Malakithe]

Is there a good set up for running Beasts with Khorne? I dont fully understand how to merge them.

[Nqshou]

What do you guys think about the Bok list that went 5-0 at that tournament in Sweden? 

https://tabletop.to/krigsluntans-grandiosa-turnering-2019/list/tim-skold

[Smooth criminal]

On 11/28/2019 at 1:27 AM, Salyx said:

And why does nobody play Bloodletter? Ok, they are very squishy and you do not get that many models in, but in the current meta with Reapers of Vengeance and Unfettered Fury with Crimson Crown, they could Come in handy behind a Bloodreavers screen... 

They are playable, but there's not much reason to play them when thirsters are the best option and crushers are better option.

I guess they have a cool battalion with the Fury that gives reroll wound. Reroll wound is rare for demons.

[Smooth criminal]

23 hours ago, Nqshou said:

What do you guys think about the Bok list that went 5-0 at that tournament in Sweden? 

https://tabletop.to/krigsluntans-grandiosa-turnering-2019/list/tim-skold

I think it's pretty much the best competitive Khorne list I've seen so far.

Also check out mortal list that went 4-1 in same tournament. It had zero thirsters and 9 skullcrushers.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:02 AM, Malakithe said:

Is there a good set up for running Beasts with Khorne? I dont fully understand how to merge them

Not sure I'd necessarily call it the best,  but I've been running beasts of khorne for a while now. Managed 2nd in a one day event, so there's that. I've been keeping as much of my army in the battalion as possible to give them the most chance to benefit from the bonus of the battalion. Also because of the size of the battalion I'd say to generally (unless you have a plan) keep things MSU. More blood tithe, more units to hand out the re-roll 1s to each other. Gors are excellent fast cannon fodder, I haven't played with the chariots, but the BoC forum likes them as chaff. Your chaff game will probably be stronger than a normal blades army, but not necessarily. The biggest decision I felt was on what to take as your hammers. You've basically got 3 options. The bullgors need buffs, are reasonably fast, and hit like a ton of bricks when supported, but they're expensive and squishy.(They NEED their buffs, even if it's just attacks) The wrathmongers will most likely be able to keep up with them most of the time. Option two would of course be bestigors. More of a finesse option, they're fast, hit reasonably hard, and have okay armour, but are still squishy. Their biggest problem is running out of attack buffs range. Using them as angry goat missiles isn't a terrible idea (slaughterpriests are better for that, or mix in a gore pilgrims battalion to increase range).  The final curve ball option is dragon ogres. Fastish, multiple attack profiles to benefit from bonuses and tougher than either of the other options. Are they good? I don't know, as I never used them (don't have the minis). Doombulls could be used as okay murder units, but they can't beat out their buffed up subordinates for damage. Still an option though. Ghorgon/cygor. I never really used them, so I won't comment on their abilities, but they too are an option. The only things I took from the main book are support units. Blood secrator, wrathmongers, priests. Placing my heroes out of a battalion meant I had a fairly high drop army despite the battalion's size. Even sticking to a BoC core, you'll have a lot of variety to choose from. 

Bonus weird options: BoC are allies to Khorne, allowing you to use some normally forbidden units. Ungor raiders are surprisingly useful for gumming up the enemy's works (first line of chaff or sneaking onto objectives). The bray shaman (magical heresy!!) still can buff the movement of gor type units inherently and can unbind. I think the shaggoth buffs the dragon ogres naturally. You can get some interesting things for the up to 400pts of allies.

Beasts of Khorne play similarily to BoC, but you've got to play smarter. No respawning units, no expanding bubble of doom, but in exchange you get soooo many buffs to stack on units. You can easily punch above your weight class, but you're still a bunch of shirtless goat people running at the enemy. You can't take heavy blows. Which is why I say to keep MSU. Make them spread the "love." If one hammer dies, you've got more. 

Good luck and,

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!!!!!

[Malakithe]

On 11/30/2019 at 8:41 PM, TheArborealWalrus said:

Not sure I'd necessarily call it the best,  but I've been running beasts of khorne for a while now. Managed 2nd in a one day event, so there's that. I've been keeping as much of my army in the battalion as possible to give them the most chance to benefit from the bonus of the battalion. Also because of the size of the battalion I'd say to generally (unless you have a plan) keep things MSU. More blood tithe, more units to hand out the re-roll 1s to each other. Gors are excellent fast cannon fodder, I haven't played with the chariots, but the BoC forum likes them as chaff. Your chaff game will probably be stronger than a normal blades army, but not necessarily. The biggest decision I felt was on what to take as your hammers. You've basically got 3 options. The bullgors need buffs, are reasonably fast, and hit like a ton of bricks when supported, but they're expensive and squishy.(They NEED their buffs, even if it's just attacks) The wrathmongers will most likely be able to keep up with them most of the time. Option two would of course be bestigors. More of a finesse option, they're fast, hit reasonably hard, and have okay armour, but are still squishy. Their biggest problem is running out of attack buffs range. Using them as angry goat missiles isn't a terrible idea (slaughterpriests are better for that, or mix in a gore pilgrims battalion to increase range).  The final curve ball option is dragon ogres. Fastish, multiple attack profiles to benefit from bonuses and tougher than either of the other options. Are they good? I don't know, as I never used them (don't have the minis). Doombulls could be used as okay murder units, but they can't beat out their buffed up subordinates for damage. Still an option though. Ghorgon/cygor. I never really used them, so I won't comment on their abilities, but they too are an option. The only things I took from the main book are support units. Blood secrator, wrathmongers, priests. Placing my heroes out of a battalion meant I had a fairly high drop army despite the battalion's size. Even sticking to a BoC core, you'll have a lot of variety to choose from. 

Bonus weird options: BoC are allies to Khorne, allowing you to use some normally forbidden units. Ungor raiders are surprisingly useful for gumming up the enemy's works (first line of chaff or sneaking onto objectives). The bray shaman (magical heresy!!) still can buff the movement of gor type units inherently and can unbind. I think the shaggoth buffs the dragon ogres naturally. You can get some interesting things for the up to 400pts of allies.

Beasts of Khorne play similarily to BoC, but you've got to play smarter. No respawning units, no expanding bubble of doom, but in exchange you get soooo many buffs to stack on units. You can easily punch above your weight class, but you're still a bunch of shirtless goat people running at the enemy. You can't take heavy blows. Which is why I say to keep MSU. Make them spread the "love." If one hammer dies, you've got more. 

Good luck and,

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!!!!!

Who would you give items and traits to? The goats csnt take any from either allegiance if khorne right?

[kozokus]

On 11/29/2019 at 4:11 PM, Nqshou said:

What do you guys think about the Bok list that went 5-0 at that tournament in Sweden?

I regulary run something similar : 

BoUF General mage eater skullshard

BoIR Amberstrike

2 priests 1 banner 1 Skulltaker

2x10 Bloodletters 5 hounds

3X1 canons

Murderhost, axe judgement and icon,  6 drops army start with 2 CP

Played less than 10 games with it but went undefeated for the moment.

Skullcanons force the opponent to come to you, ruin your screens then eat 6" pile in bloodthirsters and bloodboils.

The canons where a surprise for me. Don't waste them on hero hunting (except against fyreslayers) and they will regulary remove 10-12 plague monkseach turns or anything that annoy you.

[Darksteve]

11 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Who would you give items and traits to? The goats csnt take any from either allegiance if khorne right?

Goats can take items and traits from any of the Slaughterhosts. Theycan also take the items from the realms because you'll get at least one extra

[TheArborealWalrus]

18 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Who would you give items and traits to? The goats csnt take any from either allegiance if khorne right?

Darksteve is right. Slaughterhosts and realm artifacts are fair game. I don't have the realm artifact book, so I can't really help with those. Thermal rider could help the secrator keep up with the speedy goat boys though. (only useful one for beasts that I know off the top of my head)  I however typically used the skullfiends tribe so that my mortals sort of gain my battalion's ability (re-roll ones). Makes it easier to remember special rules if they have the same effect. The additional attack artifact from them is useful on the doombull's axe and the command trait is more of a bonus if it happens. (could use aforementioned doombull to hunt heroes) The goretide's command trait isn't bad on the bull, but I feel it's better on the beastlord (assuming that you want to keep your army in the BoC range). Makes him into an actual combat threat. Unfortunately the artifact feels wasted on BoC heroes with their 4+ max saves, but it's not terrible. (side note-shaman helps the beast lord's move too) You could even use the daemonic hosts' artifacts/traits as they aren't daemon specific. Reapers are useful if you feel your anti-magic game needs help (both their things). Bloodlords is an interesting option. I'd call it more of a finesse move, but +movement and the chance to always strike first aren't bad. Too flipfloppy for me, but you could have fun with it.  For my second artifact I often liked to throw a banner on the secrator. Your choice of flavor. Most of the others didn't feel very helpful to my beastmen, but maybe you'll spot something I didn't for your support crew.

As for picking your host, I'd say it depends on who you're bringing to party with the goats. Mortals would obviously lend you to the hosts that support them, same with daemons, but it doesn't invalidate the other side either. Like I said before, even with mostly just using the battalion, you have a lot of options to choose from. Theirs also nothing stopping you from converting the key units that you just want to use into beasts. Did that with my priests and secrator, and I've seen conversions of thirsters, princes, juggers, ect.  If you're looking for how I used mine, I dropped the battle reports form the tourney back on page 226. (I think I've sprinkled other reports with the beasty boys before that too)

[Smooth criminal]

Well, StD scrolls are out and they are amazing.

Warriors = chaos sequitors.

Knight/chosens = better skullreapers.

Marauders = our best horde unit, and they have access to death frenzy.

Chariots = 12" move, run&charge, damage 2 on the axe dude.

Archaon is insane.

Foot lord gives all of those fight two times for a CP.

Lizard lord = smaller vlozd with same punching power.

Demon prince = always strike first.

 

Assuming point costs are at least the same they were get ready to shelve your khorne dudes or use them as bits for your Khorne StD.

[Smooth criminal]

Now that points are out:

Marauders are our best battleline. I think the only reason why you don't just go 3x40 marauders is battleshock (also not having 3x40 marauders is a valid reason). Maybe you should go 3x40 marauders actually and give them exalted deathbringer.

Chaos warriors seems like a unit you take as 1 big one to sit on an objective and punch everything that comes close. Not sure if knights aren't just better.

Chosens and knights seems like the damage dealers of choice.
Knights are better than crushers and reapers in 180pt category because of rend, being faster and having mw save. 
Chosens are kinda StD mongers, they fight mediocrily and they buff rest of your stuff (and themselves if they strike twice). Also they fight better than reapers for their cost, so they become the go to footslogging second wave damage unit. They delegate mongers to strictly buffer duty.
Chaos lords become important to play mortal StD stuff. We can protect them with 2+ anti-magic save fine enough, better than StD themselves.

Soul grinders are quite undercosted. You pay 210pt for a model with essentially thirster combat capability and survivability. They aren't heroes so they can't proc double fight and locus on themselves, but they are easy to keep in the bubbles.
Compare grinder to 2x khorgorath, that's massively in favor of grinder.

On the matter of Karkadrak vs. Manticore vs. Thirster vs. Daemon prince.
You obviously take the mortal one in Goretide as a general and in Reapers you want to have 1 Demon prince so he can snipe buffer heroes at the beginning of combat phase.
Karkadrak and Manticore actually hit harder than thirsters and scale extremely well from our +attack options (4 attack per buff each). Karkadrak is also not a monster and has 3+ so he's very hard to shoot. I think this will lead to Goretide build that wants to double fight with them.

Chariots kinda got priced out of competitive play despite being very fast. Maybe you take 1 and ram it into side of opponent's army turn 1 to tag some units.

Battalion makes going low drop very easy. It's also very flexible. Just take all your std stuff, pick shrines instead of priests and add bloodsecrator/mongers.

Our battalions are mostly obsolete now. Thought StD make good filler for Tyrants list.

Archaon I think is priced out of being good in BoK. He needs a big pure StD army, you won't be able to take BoK goodies or any battalions.

Varanguard seem like worse knights. A lot worse.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[Roark]

8 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Battalion makes going low drop very easy. It's also very flexible. Just take all your std stuff, pick shrines instead of priests and add bloodsecrator/mongers.

What are you referring to here? The  Bloodmarked Warband? How have you become aware of battalion composition? Thanks.

[Smooth criminal]

There is an StD tome review video out at usual place.

Battalion is 1 std khorne hero + 8 std khorne units, 180pt. Basically same as Blood host.

And this time it specifically says you can use it in BoK army.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[itgnightraven]

On 12/7/2019 at 10:25 PM, Smooth criminal said:

Now that points are out:

Marauders are our best battleline. I think the only reason why you don't just go 3x40 marauders is battleshock (also not having 3x40 marauders is a valid reason). Maybe you should go 3x40 marauders actually and give them exalted deathbringer.

Chaos warriors seems like a unit you take as 1 big one to sit on an objective and punch everything that comes close. Not sure if knights aren't just better.

Chosens and knights seems like the damage dealers of choice.
Knights are better than crushers and reapers in 180pt category because of rend, being faster and having mw save. 
Chosens are kinda StD mongers, they fight mediocrily and they buff rest of your stuff (and themselves if they strike twice). Also they fight better than reapers for their cost, so they become the go to footslogging second wave damage unit. They delegate mongers to strictly buffer duty.
Chaos lords become important to play mortal StD stuff. We can protect them with 2+ anti-magic save fine enough, better than StD themselves.

Soul grinders are quite undercosted. You pay 210pt for a model with essentially thirster combat capability and survivability. They aren't heroes so they can't proc double fight and locus on themselves, but they are easy to keep in the bubbles.
Compare grinder to 2x khorgorath, that's massively in favor of grinder.

On the matter of Karkadrak vs. Manticore vs. Thirster vs. Daemon prince.
You obviously take the mortal one in Goretide as a general and in Reapers you want to have 1 Demon prince so he can snipe buffer heroes at the beginning of combat phase.
Karkadrak and Manticore actually hit harder than thirsters and scale extremely well from our +attack options (4 attack per buff each). Karkadrak is also not a monster and has 3+ so he's very hard to shoot. I think this will lead to Goretide build that wants to double fight with them.

Chariots kinda got priced out of competitive play despite being very fast. Maybe you take 1 and ram it into side of opponent's army turn 1 to tag some units.

Battalion makes going low drop very easy. It's also very flexible. Just take all your std stuff, pick shrines instead of priests and add bloodsecrator/mongers.

Our battalions are mostly obsolete now. Thought StD make good filler for Tyrants list.

Archaon I think is priced out of being good in BoK. He needs a big pure StD army, you won't be able to take BoK goodies or any battalions.

Varanguard seem like worse knights. A lot worse.

shrines only boost StD units, so how does this work with the battalion and khorne allegiance abilities?

[Agent of Chaos]

@itgnightraven if the shrine has mark of khorne it can be included in khorne allegiance and will be useful for the slaves units in the battalion. In a khorne army it can also take a blood blessing and pray for judgements (thanks to PRIEST keyword), plus bloodreavers benefit form its totem keyword. It just wont give any buffs/wards to non slaves units. 

I see the lord on Karkadrak as a good candiate for goretide general as his 4 x attack profiles will benefit greatly from +1 DMG and various bonus attacks. With 3+ save and no MONSTER keyword he greatly benefits from Thronebreakers Torc as well. 

With him you will want a unit of chaos knights to receive his command ability, add killing frenzy and bloodstoker and that unit will shred things. Could support them with the warshrine who can use the tzeentch prayer for reroll saves. With their innate 5+ against mortals and the shrines 6+ ward that is a tanky unit that will put out the hurt regardless of weapon choice.

[123lac]

Probably a silly question, but how does allying in the new Std units work for BoK?

Are we restricted to the usual ally rules, i.e. 400 pts for a 2000 pt army, or can we treat them as actual Khorne units?

I really like the look of the new sculpts in the  Std start collecting box and would love to include them into my BoK army.

[Smooth criminal]

4 hours ago, 123lac said:

Probably a silly question, but how does allying in the new Std units work for BoK?

Are we restricted to the usual ally rules, i.e. 400 pts for a 2000 pt army, or can we treat them as actual Khorne units?

I really like the look of the new sculpts in the  Std start collecting box and would love to include them into my BoK army.

Everything that can take khorne mark is treated as native khorne unit.

[LeSwordfish]

Would other people agree that Khorne Chaos Knights are better than Skullreapers? I like the knights much more than the skullreaper models, and have exactly 180pts to spare.

[AresX8]

2 hours ago, LeSwordfish said:

Would other people agree that Khorne Chaos Knights are better than Skullreapers? I like the knights much more than the skullreaper models, and have exactly 180pts to spare.

I do not. These two units do very different things and aren't exactly comparable to each outside of their point cost.

15 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@itgnightraven if the shrine has mark of khorne it can be included in khorne allegiance and will be useful for the slaves units in the battalion. In a khorne army it can also take a blood blessing and pray for judgements (thanks to PRIEST keyword), plus bloodreavers benefit form its totem keyword. It just wont give any buffs/wards to non slaves units. 

I see the lord on Karkadrak as a good candiate for goretide general as his 4 x attack profiles will benefit greatly from +1 DMG and various bonus attacks. With 3+ save and no MONSTER keyword he greatly benefits from Thronebreakers Torc as well. 

With him you will want a unit of chaos knights to receive his command ability, add killing frenzy and bloodstoker and that unit will shred things. Could support them with the warshrine who can use the tzeentch prayer for reroll saves. With their innate 5+ against mortals and the shrines 6+ ward that is a tanky unit that will put out the hurt regardless of weapon choice.

Command Traits do not apply to Mounts, as stated on pg 17 of the core rules PDF:

"Command traits have no effect on attacks made by a general’s mount unless noted otherwise."

https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/06/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf

The Lord on Karkadrak is incredibly expensive at 250 points. A Daemon Prince is a much, much better candidate (and 40 points cheaper) for what you're suggesting, especially since he's faster, has an incredible command ability, and can fly.. but this is also going away from building around S2D Mortal units.

[Praecautus]

Knights =\= skull reapers. Their roles are different. Skullsreapers pump out mortal wounds especially against hordes (well units with 5+ models) due to reroll hits and their battleshock immunity is great. They will hold the line

Knights are a fast hammer, finishing off units with those lances and then charging the next. Unless you use swords, but then I think reapers with the MW output will do a better job.

[LeSwordfish]

For context, i'm thinking of how to finish off this list: 

Skarbrand - 380
Bloodsecrator - 120
Slaughterpriest - 100
Slaughterpriest - 100
Bloodstoker - 80

15x Blood Warriors - 300
10x Bloodreavers - 70
10x Bloodreavers - 70
6x Bloodcrushers - 280
5x Wrathmongers - 140

Hexgorger Skulls - 40

Gore Pilgrims batallion - 140
Skull Altar - 0

180pts remaining. I don't really like skullreapers is the problem (or a bloodthirster which is the other thing I've had suggested) - and with the new Slaves goodies available, I'm trying to plan what else to get. Some knights? A Daemon Prince? Juggerlord? Mighty Skullcrushers? A good candidate for General would be nice, since none of the existing heroes care much about Melee damage, and while the thronebreakers torc is perfectly respectable on a Bloodstoker, I'd rather give him the Thermalrider's Cloak.

Edited December 9, 2019 by LeSwordfish

[Praecautus]

56 minutes ago, LeSwordfish said:

For context, i'm thinking of how to finish off this list: 

Skarbrand - 380
Bloodsecrator - 120
Slaughterpriest - 100
Slaughterpriest - 100
Bloodstoker - 80

15x Blood Warriors - 300
10x Bloodreavers - 70
10x Bloodreavers - 70
6x Bloodcrushers - 280
5x Wrathmongers - 140

Hexgorger Skulls - 40

Gore Pilgrims batallion - 140
Skull Altar - 0

180pts remaining. I don't really like skullreapers is the problem (or a bloodthirster which is the other thing I've had suggested) - and with the new Slaves goodies available, I'm trying to plan what else to get. Some knights? A Daemon Prince? Juggerlord? Mighty Skullcrushers? A good candidate for General would be nice, since none of the existing heroes care much about Melee damage, and while the thronebreakers torc is perfectly respectable on a Bloodstoker, I'd rather give him the Thermalrider's Cloak.

Gotcha. 

Prince is a good option but is 210 now 😔

Juggernaut lord with gorecleaver can be scary, especially with hew the foe.

knights won’t be a bad choice

[LeSwordfish]

For the prince I would probably have to drop the Hexgorger skulls - either that or the Bloodstoker, which would leave me enough for a command point.

[Praecautus]

11 minutes ago, LeSwordfish said:

For the prince I would probably have to drop the Hexgorger skulls - either that or the Bloodstoker, which would leave me enough for a command point.

I was thinking juggerlord is the best option. With hew the foe and gorecleaver he is doing 7 damage on a 6 at rend 2. With a 3 up save that could be 2 up with bronze flesh. He is also another source of wound rerollls with his command ability. Him and the skullcrushers would charge up the board to take out anything threatening Skarbrand. Reavers and warriors claim objectives/get in the way.

[123lac]

15 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Everything that can take khorne mark is treated as native khorne unit.

Awesome, so you can just incorporate the entire start collecting box and all units would benefit from goretide faction bonus?