AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Darksteve]

1 hour ago, Isotop said:

Yeah, I never said you can not re-roll when rolling a 1 and the rules do not support this either. Since re-rolls are applied before modifiers and a roll of a 1 lets the roll fail before modifiers you are obviously allowed to re-roll natural 1s. 

Taking the rules reference in the quote above, there are two things that can happen when rolling to wound:

(1) Your roll (after re-rolls and modifiers) equals or beats the To-Wound characteristic of the weapon you are attacking with. You proceed with the save roll.

(2) Your roll (after re-rolls and modifiers) is below the To-Wound characteristic of the weapon. The attack sequence ends.

(3) Your roll is a 1 (after re-rolls) before it gets modified. The attack sequence ends. 

First of all, I hope I did not deduced too much from the rules. If you think so, feel free to tell me what I did wrong. The real question here is: What does "the attack sequence ends" mean? There are two different meanings that would make sense to me:

(4) Finish the step (in this case "2. Wound Roll") you are in right now but do not proceed to the next one

(5) Finish instantly

If (5) was true, there would be no roll to be modified and chaning the rolled 1 to another reuslt would not be possible. If (4) was true, you could indeed stop the Skullreapers from wounding themselves. I think it is pretty obvious that I was implicitly arguing for (5) to be true, but I totally see how others might think of (4) being correct. Two examples of weird results arising from (4) are the following: 

(6) A model with the Sword of Judgement and a +5 To-Hit buff causes mortal wounds on hit-rolls of 1 (5 Warchanters can do this in Ironjaws)

(7) Same for Bloodletters Decapitating Blow (I guess 5 Slaughterpriests could do it?)

In any case, something GW should look into regarding the next big FAQ.

1) I guess I just don't see how finishing instantly makes sense. If you finish the instant you roll a one, NOTE: it doesn't specify after rerolls in the rules you are quoting, many abilities do not make sense.

2) When GW wants to call out natural die rolls without modifiers they say "unmodified" in the description.  Abilities that do not have those words are assumed to be effected by modifiers.

I really dont want to come across as mean here I've just never come across this interpretation of these rules before and I am struggling to see how it can be read that way.

Side note: A similar interaction in 40k with plasma weapons was faqed to be true and the rules between the two system are virtually identical in this particular regard.

[Forrix]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:26 AM, Revan123 said:

Funny thing, that only Blightkings would win after that, but everyone else will lose. Daemonettes, Bloodletters, Chaos Chosen, Archaon, Varanguards with daemon blades, Chaos Marauders. And I don't know any faction, who will lose more, than Chaos in that case. 

We already have struggling with lots of things to do our armies competative. And many units depend on boosting of their abilities. Skyfires are dead already becouse of unmodified. 1 shot from each... ONE SHOT! For 200 points.  

And here you have Daughters of Khain with rerollable FNP,  fearless and 120 attacks with potential reroll to wound. We have 40 skeletons with potential 240 attacks. We have ghosts, who don't care about rend and have 4 save unmodified (one time Archaon wasn't able to kill TEN models with all his attacks for TWO phases and you can't counter it at all, saving for mortal wounds spam). We have shooty army and Khorne, Slaanesh and even Nurgle are struggle to get to them and at least TRY to do something. Or Fyreslayers, who have deepstrike and units with 4+ FNP.  

Everyone keep telling me, that Chaos still is able to get on top. But then I look at the Meta of Tournament. Well, in our meta such Chaos armies will be wiped out easily. I tried 4 bloodthirsters a lot in different setups. They don't do that amount of damage for their points and die rather fast. So, letters are still the only option to get competative, but not to get on top, because each shooty army will be almost certain death. 

My Blightkings would be so happy...They would need to rework Archaon or massively drop his points if they changed Slayer of Kings to only work on unmodified rolls of 6, the whole point of that ability is to stack buffs with his keyword shenanigans, without it the ability would almost never trigger.

I'm fully expecting Daughters and Legion to get knocked down a peg in the next FAQ and GHB.  GW seems to good at targeting OP stuff (Tzeentch says hi) though if they derp out and leave them be while nerfing  Chaos I'll be taking a break from AoS until they pull their head out of their rear.

[123lac]

Best 500 point lists for Khorne?

I will be playing against my mate who has the Stormcast half of the original starter set. So any lists he makes he will likely be running Lord Celestant on Dracoth with Lord Relictor and some liberators.

I'm thinking maybe 30 bloodletters with a bloodstoker and slaughterpriest? Need to be able to deal some kind of mortal wounds to get through the resilient units he has...

[Coyote]

A Bloodthirster and two units of Flesh Hounds?

[123lac]

2 hours ago, Coyote said:

A Bloodthirster and two units of Flesh Hounds?

I was considering a WoK bloodthirster with bloodstoker and 5 blood warriors

Edit: would matched play require 2 units of battle line for 500pts?

Edited November 29, 2018 by 123lac

[Retro]

1 hour ago, 123lac said:

I was considering a WoK bloodthirster with bloodstoker and 5 blood warriors

Edit: would matched play require 2 units of battle line for 500pts?

Technically you'd have to have 2 battline but it's up to you guys, me and my friends would probably agree to 1 battline

[Roark]

I really really like this list for a tournament. Screens, bodyguard and 4 nasty assault units with heaps of reach - one of which is a stone-cold Hero and Monster slayer and can easily do 4d6 mortal wounds in a combat phase if prayed-for. How would you make it better, or are there major issues you would exploit? Thanks!

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power 
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
30 x Bloodletters (320)
30 x Bloodletters (320)
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

 

 

 

[Retro]

7 hours ago, Roark said:

I really really like this list for a tournament. Screens, bodyguard and 4 nasty assault units with heaps of reach - one of which is a stone-cold Hero and Monster slayer and can easily do 4d6 mortal wounds in a combat phase if prayed-for. How would you make it better, or are there major issues you would exploit? Thanks!

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power 
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
30 x Bloodletters (320)
30 x Bloodletters (320)
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

Seems like a solid list, plenty of boots on the ground and a lot of killing potential.

I think the main thing would be playtesting it as much as possible and finding what works for your personal play style and how it fits into your meta.

[will pollock]

On 11/30/2018 at 10:35 AM, Roark said:

I really really like this list for a tournament. Screens, bodyguard and 4 nasty assault units with heaps of reach - one of which is a stone-cold Hero and Monster slayer and can easily do 4d6 mortal wounds in a combat phase if prayed-for. How would you make it better, or are there major issues you would exploit? Thanks!

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power 
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
30 x Bloodletters (320)
30 x Bloodletters (320)
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134

I run one similar for tournaments

Allegiance-khorne

Heroes:

WoK bloodthirster- 320

General (crimson crown immense power)

Bloodstoker-80

Bloodsecrator-140

Slaughterpriest-100

Slaughterpriest-100

Slaughterpriest-100

Units:

5 x wrathmongers-180

30 x bloodletters-320

30 x bloodletters-320

30 x bloodletters-320

1980

Honestly either list could be used to equal effect, it's up to personal preference over the battalion for safety or if you want to have a higher maximum output

Edited December 2, 2018 by will pollock

[Revan123]

On 11/30/2018 at 1:35 PM, Roark said:

I really really like this list for a tournament. Screens, bodyguard and 4 nasty assault units with heaps of reach - one of which is a stone-cold Hero and Monster slayer and can easily do 4d6 mortal wounds in a combat phase if prayed-for. How would you make it better, or are there major issues you would exploit? Thanks!

I was a bit dissapointed with Daemon Prince with a sword, not so many times you can actually use him. It will not kill Nagash rather than Nagash have a chance to kill him with his own FNP. 

Other than that it is hard to get to heroes that are important, especially with a lot of screen. If it was 40k, where you can stand within 1 inch, not 3 inches, it is possible to make a charge above the screen. 

If in your meta a lot of large things that fly towards you, then SoJ is great. Otherwise not so good. 

AS for me I don't take the second unit of reavers and just take herald of nurgle and chromatic cogs. You will get a chance to boost your movement a lot (good against shooting armies, I had problems to reach them), artefact for + 1 to run and charge, so letters are going to run 14 inches and get +6 to charge. And I am going to have as well 3 command points at the start of my turn.

[Kyyn]

Hi guys, another easy question just to confirm as a coma can change everything :).

The Brazen Rune only affect wounds as result of a spell and mortal wounds as result of a spell, right ?

I mean it is not, any wound, and mortal wounds as result of a spell. It would be overpowered if so

thanks

[Retro]

10 hours ago, Kyyn said:

Hi guys, another easy question just to confirm as a coma can change everything :).

The Brazen Rune only affect wounds as result of a spell and mortal wounds as result of a spell, right ?

I mean it is not, any wound, and mortal wounds as result of a spell. It would be overpowered if so

thanks

Haven't heard that one before haha.

I suppose you could read it both ways but it is definitely only for spell related wounds/mortal eounds

[123lac]

Hey guys quick rules queston: does the realm artifact Ghyrstrike (+1 hit +1 wound) modify the warlord trait devastating blow to proc on a wound roll of 5 rather than 6?

If so then that seems like a pretty good combo?

[andysonic1]

10 hours ago, 123lac said:

Hey guys quick rules queston: does the realm artifact Ghyrstrike (+1 hit +1 wound) modify the warlord trait devastating blow to proc on a wound roll of 5 rather than 6?

If so then that seems like a pretty good combo?

No because the rule for Devastating Blow says it procs on "rolls of 6", not "a 6+", or "6 or more". IMO Immense Power plus Ghyrstrike is a much more devastating combo on certain models (cough Daemon Prince cough).

Edited December 4, 2018 by andysonic1

[Zamik]

Does anyone run the Dark Feast battalion with success? I haven't tried it yet, but 200 points feels steep for an extra attack and an artefact--though an extra attack for 40 Bloodreavers doesn't sound too bad.  I could otherwise fill that number of points with Blood Warriors or Skullreapers.

[andysonic1]

7 minutes ago, Zamik said:

Does anyone run the Dark Feast battalion with success? I haven't tried it yet, but 200 points feels steep for an extra attack and an artefact--though an extra attack for 40 Bloodreavers doesn't sound too bad.  I could otherwise fill that number of points with Blood Warriors or Skullreapers.

Someone took a Gore Pilgrims with a Dark Feast and giving all his Priests Blood Sacrifice. I believe he also had a Warshrine (not 100% sure on that). From what he said it worked well enough and he was summoning like crazy. I wouldn't run Dark Feast by itself since it's like a weaker Gore Pilgrims, but together with another battalion it allows you to reduce your drops enough to try and get the second turn.

[Zamik]

12 minutes ago, andysonic1 said:

Someone took a Gore Pilgrims with a Dark Feast and giving all his Priests Blood Sacrifice. I believe he also had a Warshrine (not 100% sure on that). From what he said it worked well enough and he was summoning like crazy. I wouldn't run Dark Feast by itself since it's like a weaker Gore Pilgrims, but together with another battalion it allows you to reduce your drops enough to try and get the second turn.

Thanks! Yeah, I've been thinking of it more as a support battalion--crash a wave of reavers into the front lines and collect that sweet sweet blood tithe, though 200 points extra is kind of a tough buy when I could just buy more minimum-size units to grind up.

[andysonic1]

8 minutes ago, Zamik said:

Thanks! Yeah, I've been thinking of it more as a support battalion--crash a wave of reavers into the front lines and collect that sweet sweet blood tithe, though 200 points extra is kind of a tough buy when I could just buy more minimum-size units to grind up.

It depends on what you're using to backup those Reavers. Many armies are equipped to deal with at least one horde unit and if they get the jump on you they can wipe you out quickly. That's been my fear with my single 40 man Reaver unit so far (though it's historically done quite well) and I'm considering bringing a second 40 man unit just to split the enemy forces without reducing my own power all that much. Being able to surround the enemy with semi-buffed Reavers (rerolling hits from shrine, rerolling 1s from Stoker) is devastating as long as you swing first.

[123lac]

Anyone here like to play 1000 point games? What lists do you run?

[Galdenistal]

14 hours ago, 123lac said:

Anyone here like to play 1000 point games? What lists do you run?

I play most of my games at 1000, my lists change a lot just to mix things up, but my core is usually:

 

Aspiring Deathbringer,

Bloodsecrator,

Bloodmaster or Daemon Prince,

30 Bloodletters,

10 Bloodreavers.

 

Units like the Daemon Prince do really well for me as there isn't much that can stand up to him at those lower point levels. I always enjoy running Wrathmongers but at 1k there aren't as many monsters around to use them properly.

[Agent of Chaos]

I recently played a 1000 point doubles tournament where I took the following;

Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster

Lord on Daemonic Mount

Bloodstoker

2 x 5 Chaos Knights

2 x 10 Bloodreavers

I was teamed with a Skaven Skyre list that was very shooty and magical so my list was designed around screening the skaven with the Bloodthirster to get in their face early and give them something to worry about. 

Not sure if I would run the same list in a pure 1000 game however I think it could work.

[Roark]

On 12/3/2018 at 1:06 AM, will pollock said:

Honestly either list could be used to equal effect, it's up to personal preference over the battalion for safety or if you want to have a higher maximum output

My alt list also has Wrathmongers!

Hey, how do those catapulted Letterbombs go with a mere 18" Portal? Do you find it frustrating at all?

[mastercrafted]

I'm thinking of running this for some upcoming 1000 pt games

Insensate rage bloodthirster 

Bloodsecrator 

30 Bloodletters

10 blood reavers 

10 blood warriors 

no strong combos, but i do find the IR thirster to be a lot of fun if i can get him into combat at the right place

[Coyote]

Hey Quick question- Flesh Hounds base sizes- new images for Rath & Rapture show the new models on a “not 50mm base” 

*What is the base size in the images?*  

If I need to rebase 50 Flesh Hounds, need to know what size to add to my Christmas list.

Sorry if already answered- Didn’t immediately see it in any search.

Thanks!

Edited December 6, 2018 by Coyote

[Infernalslayer]

54 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Hey Quick question- Flesh Hounds base sizes- new images for Rath & Rapture show the new models on a “not 50mm base” 

*What is the base size in the images?*  

If I need to rebase 50 Flesh Hounds, need to know what size to add to my Christmas list.

Sorry if already answered- Didn’t immediately see it in any search.

Thanks!

Most likely  60x35mm Oval Bases. They also had these bases suggested for Flesh hounds in the first "Designer's Commentary on Base Sizes" pdf that they released in Summer and people emailed them about it and they later changed the suggested size to 50mm round for consistency.