AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[TheOtherJosh]

1 hour ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

Whats a Super khorgorath?

Maybe it’s Skaarac?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Skaarac-the-Bloodborn

But it is mostly likely just a super-buffed Khorgorath.

@Ravinsild care to share your secret recipe for “Super Khorgorath”?

[Retro]

4 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Maybe it’s Skaarac?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Skaarac-the-Bloodborn

But it is mostly likely just a super-buffed Khorgorath.

@Ravinsild care to share your secret recipe for “Super Khorgorath”?

The most buffed i can think of would be:

skulltake,  8 attacks, 2 damage each, 3 if the wound roll is 6+

killing frenzy, 2+ to hit

LoKoJ, +1 to wound (extra damage on 5+)

Bloodstoker, reroll 1s to wound.

could also throw in a warshrine for rerolling hits.

thats up to 16 wounds in combat with 8 attacks at 2+/2+/-1/2 and full rerolls

plus his tentacles and extra damage on wound roll of 5+

That is a lot of points to make a super khorgie though

[TheAdequateWargamer]

2 hours ago, Retro said:

The most buffed i can think of would be:

skulltake,  8 attacks, 2 damage each, 3 if the wound roll is 6+

killing frenzy, 2+ to hit

LoKoJ, +1 to wound (extra damage on 5+)

Bloodstoker, reroll 1s to wound.

could also throw in a warshrine for rerolling hits.

thats up to 16 wounds in combat with 8 attacks at 2+/2+/-1/2 and full rerolls

plus his tentacles and extra damage on wound roll of 5+

That is a lot of points to make a super khorgie though

 

Khorgies dont have 'mortal' keyword so asp db, warshrine and LoKoJ cant buff them 

[Ravinsild]

9 hours ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

You may find that even at 140pts and being pretty immobile the bloodsecrator is just value for money. Extra attack and battle shock immunity in an 18 inch bubble that works on mortals and daemons alike. 

 

Whats a Super khorgorath?

 

 

Typically buffed in the Skulltake for the extra attacks then whip it, put killing frenzy on it, use the Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut’s CA on it and maybe Aspiring Deathbringer and Bloodsecrator if you’re using one. 

Now its 9-10 attacks, +2/+2/-1/2 re-rolling 1’s to wound. If you take a FULL STRENGTH Skulltake Battalion now on wound rolls of 6 his damage is increased by 1. 

Seems terrifying. Have yet to test it out. 

Turns out it doesn’t work as planned. Also none of the demon leaders seem to really have buffs so I can’t find another way to get +1 wound on him. RIP. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Ravinsild

[Praecautus]

I am entering a small local tournament. Any thoughts on my list before I submit?

Sigmar store tournament

Blades of Khorne

Realm Ulgu

 

Wrath of khorne bloodthirster - 320

-general

-immense power

-doppelgänger cloak

 

Aspiring Deathbringer w goreaxe and skull hammer - 100

 

Slaughterpriest w wrathblade and slaughter hammer - 100

-bronzed flesh

-brazen rune

 

Slaughterpriest - 100

-bronzed flesh

 

Slaughterpriest - 100

-bronzed flesh

 

Blood secrator - 140

 

Bloodreavers (10) - 70

• reaver blades
• horn
• Banner

 

Bloodreavers (10) -70

• reaver blades

 

Bloodreavers (10)-70

• reaver blades

 

Blood reavers (10)-70

• meat ripper axes
• Horn
• Banner 

 

Blood warriors (10) - 200

• gorefists
• Banner

 

Blood warriors (10)-200

• double axes
• Banner 

 

Skull reapers (5) -170

• Daemon weapons
• Soul tearer 
• Banner 

 

Khorgorath -90

 

Gorepilgrims -200

• 1 command point 

 

comes to 2000 if I added up right

 

 

 

 

 

[Ravinsild]

What is the answer for Nagash and death in general? There’s a Nighthaunt guy and today I faced a guy who used Nagash. 

The entire match was a farce that I don’t want to get into because he doesn’t even know his own rules and it’s really frustrating in general, but just overall - would someone like SKARBRAND help or anything? What’s our counter or answer to death ? 

Do we compete with their regeneration by summoning demons? Do I need to bring a Chaos sorcerer lord or other wizard? Any angles on this? I’m struggling with death the most of anyone. 

[TheOtherJosh]

6 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

What is the answer for Nagash and death in general? There’s a Nighthaunt guy and today I faced a guy who used Nagash.

I would posit that to best answer your question we would really want to know what caused you the most issue. (Yes, Nagash is painful... but what in the fight specifically caused the problem?) I assume a 2k Battle?

Was the issue spells?

Too many units being summoned?

Spooky ghosts?

 

Nighthaunt causes issues with bravery, but they ignore rend.

So, Units that can do crazy numbers of attacks and wounds can force loads of saves.... (Bloodsecrator Buffed Reavers with Blades and not axes as an example.)

They have minimal casting ... and their heroes are minimal wounds ... but if you don’t kill them, they come back. (So Focus Fire is Key.)

Flesh-hounds are a solid source of unbinds if the issue is spells, As an example.

[Ravinsild]

26 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

I would posit that to best answer your question we would really want to know what caused you the most issue. (Yes, Nagash is painful... but what in the fight specifically caused the problem?) I assume a 2k Battle?

Was the issue spells?

Too many units being summoned?

Spooky ghosts?

 

Nighthaunt causes issues with bravery, but they ignore rend.

So, Units that can do crazy numbers of attacks and wounds can force loads of saves.... (Bloodsecrator Buffed Reavers with Blades and not axes as an example.)

They have minimal casting ... and their heroes are minimal wounds ... but if you don’t kill them, they come back. (So Focus Fire is Key.)

Flesh-hounds are a solid source of unbinds if the issue is spells, As an example.

Okay, here we go. I'll clarify what I mean by the game being a farce. Unfortunately my area and the people who play in it are awful to play with in the majority of cases and I find myself becoming more and more frustrated with the pool of players available. This is going to be a "dear diary" post of me mostly complaining, so strap yourselves in.

So I was invited to an event today at another location, but due to the players (whom I know) that were attending, I chose not to go. Which left me with who was at the Games Workshop store. The people at the other location are all extremely competitive players who always bring extremely cheesy lists and crush n00bs like it's nothing and then act oblivious when people call them out on it, because hey man. What's is toning down your list for someone's first game so they can actually play through all the phases a couple times to get a handle on the game? Nah, let's table them turn 1 that'll show 'em how it's done.

Anyway, there was a guy with Idoneth Deepkin there with 1700 points, no more. Another guy, who I'll call Player B (whom I have played against before twice and strongly dislike because I he plays dirty) was coming to play with his friend who I will call Player C. Somehow it was decided we would be playing a team battle...at 1700 points. Then it was decided that I get to be on Player C's team. Who doesn't actually own an army. Or play AOS, at all. Player B gives Player C his Skaven army (which is cheesy with it's shooting but otherwise pretty trash, because Skaven I guess) and brings Nagash, 60 Zombies, some screaming banshee lady, a Necromancer, some guys on skeleton horses and a handful of skeletons (40? 20? Not sure).  He's paired with Idoneth Deepkin guy (who has also never played with his army before, he just happens to have them).

I brought a standard Gore Pilgrims list, if you're curious I can post the list, but it's just kind of bog standard. We get the scenario called like Death on Both Sides or whatever where there's 4 objectives and your opponents give 3 and you get 1 for yourself. It's like the 4th or 5th map on Table B in the  GHB. So I'm deployed in such a way as I am in front of the IDK player and Player C with (not) his Skaven army and Player B with his death army.

Apparently at some point (I literally don't remember anyone asking me, but I did hear someone mention, "Oh he's Khorne, he doesn't even cast spells" which I guess means I don't need to be included in the discussion) it was all agreed upon that we would be using endless spells...FOR FREE. The reason "Well none of us have ever used them before." Guess who suggested it. If you guessed Player B with his Nagash you'd be right.

He also kept getting multiple rules incorrect, such as dispelling. If we roll higher than his actual dice roll, it is dispelled, but he kept adding his +3 modifier so for half the game his spells just went completely uncontested. I'll take the blame for that, I should have read Nagash's Warscroll, but it took a third party to chime in and enlighten us. It was my first game against Nagash. At another point Nagash Player is throwing a Purple Sun (I burned blood tithe to instantly nix it), Ravenak's Hungering Jaws, and a Pendulum at me through a spell portal (But then after the game I remembered you can't even do that. I'm pretty sure they errata'd the ability to sling endless spells through it in the first place, and even if they didn't you can only cast 1, and even then HE DIDN'T PAY ANY POINTS FOR THEM AND NOBODY TOLD ME THIS WAS A THING UNTIL IT HAPPENED) but I was in such a position that he was outside of my ability to attempt any dispells with my Slaughterpriests and he was outside of my Bloodsecrator Bubble. So, like I said, shifty ass play. Plus he charged Nagash and straight up moved 2 zombies bases like out of that way to say, "He made it", like no. He didn't you just literally moved 2 models several milimeters out of the way to fit his giant ass nagash base between them.

Anyway, this is the calibur of player we have, and it's just obnoxious and frustrating. I'm fine with playing competitive lists, but I want it to be by the book. I want to play 2000 point games to test some battalions, some playstyles and options and hammer down my style for a tournament. I was precise and accurate measurements, movements, ability usage, and every game I challenge myself to be better at positioning, measuring, remembering my rules and Warscrolls than I was last game. An example: This game I used my LoKoJ on my Khorgorath, then went, "Oh, I'm sorry. I can't do that, he's a demon, not a mortal, so I'll need to choose another unit." because I remembered what he discussed here about the super Khorgorath.

So ultimately what got me (us) was the Skaven player not ever shooting at Nagash with his mortal wound guns for... reasons...until the 4th turn. he was in range...he just chose...not to. In addition he just kept regeneration units. At the very end of the game he brought back a unit of skeleton horse guys and skeletons on top of an objective on his side which scored him just enough points to win by 2.

I had pushed deep into the deepkin players territory tabling him and taking his objective, but it took 3 turns so I couldn't truck across fast enough even running to get to the side where Nagash and friends were. We lost due to just constantly regeneration, stupid deals like let's allow point cost free endless spells, not using rules properly, either ignoring or not knowing the errata/FAQ, and just having a clueless partner that hadn't even played AOS before.

That all said: I know there's got to be an honest player out there looking to just get better at the fundamentals of the game like me, and they may have a Nagash, or let's say an honest Tournament player with a similar list: What do I do? How do I handle this regen? How do I shut down Nagash? I was thinking along the lines of, "Fight fire with fire" in bringing Skarbrand so I'll have my own big guy named bad ass and just making him 1v1 Nagash in melee, bringing as much anti-spell stuff as possible (artifacts, command traits and abilities, heroes, whatever I can get) and then just summoning as many demons as possible to try to match the regenerating hordes of zombies and skellies (and ghosts...and skeleton horses...).

On the bright side I got to see how cool and awesome Wrathmongers are this game, against the IDK player. I also had some really cool moments with my Blood Tithe alliance traits (I pulled a clutch 9 inch charge in the hero phase with Murderlust and wiped out a unit with 8 bloodreavers :D) did some clutch healing, got an extra fight in which helped turn the tide in my favor and so forth.

My goal every game is to get fundamentally better at mechanics; Understanding my army better, my Warscrolls better, target priority, units strengths and purposes and what they're best used in which role and which fights they're most likely to win. Getting better at positioning, being strict with piling in, staying 3' away from units, measuring exact distances, and just literally playing the entire game better, not just bringing a better lists. The list will help, but not in a tournament if my actual game play is sloppy and I make poor deployment choices, don't plan ahead, don't understand or misread my Warscrolls and forget about certain abilities my units may have or illegally use command traits on things that it's incompatible with, etc... Many games I've played where I completely forgot about keeping track of bloodtithe points and just never used them, at all.

So yeah: Honest player with a mindful decision to play as accurately, correctly and as close to the rules as possible vs similar player with a death list how do I deal with them? How do I end the regeneration? How do I break screens and get in to what matters? Do I need to start buying demons to be at max competitiveness? I'll do it, I hate Bloodletters but I'll do it. Skull Cannons? Any allies? Any ways to deepstrike or otherwise bypass units to get to the important ones? What've we got?

[Aspirant Snaeper]

Well, first remember that it's a game. Cliche, un-comforting thing to say, I know. You did well against your enemy so there's no reason to ask about what you could've done better against the Death player since it sounds like he was across the table from you. 

In those situations, you might actually learn more since the odds are further stacked against you! 

I believe we were just discussing how to deal with Death army's a page or two ago and the consensus was floods of attacks and extra attacks out of phase. Pump up those Blood Warriors! Being able to summon demons would help match you against Death's summoning, so it's a thought. But I think the best tactic is to just pump your buffs into one or two units and have them do enough work that Death doesn't get a chance to regen. 

[medivouk]

It also sounds like the death player wasn't even playing by the rules for half the game. I'd write the game off as a frustrating game against a cheater or someone very close to deliberately misunderstanding the rules.

as for killing death armies, can blood boil on your priests pull key combo pieces out into vulnerable positions?

they are generally quite weak iirc.

I've got a 1750 game vs new nighthaunt coming up. I plan on drowning them in giant blocks of minis (im tempted to throw 40 khorne marauders, 30 bestigor and 30 blood letters At the problem)

[Ravinsild]

I have a few strategies in mind, or routes I suppose. Either Gore Pilgrims, or Skulltake. As for flooding attacks, we all know I love me some Skullreapers. Running an Aspiring Deathbringer + Bloodsecrator is +2 attacks on top of what they've already got, and believe you me these boys are deadly. There's also the Khogorath.

Today my Blood Warriors actually did a good job and put in a lot of work, but again my Bloodreavers mostly just died. However they were a /great/ screen and distraction. I was able to use the Priest prayer to force the enemy IDK player's Lemarti or whatever out in the open, destroy them with Skullreapers, and in that hero phase use the Murderlust ability to get 8 or so Bloodreavers on a 9" charge re-rolling failed charges thanks to my LOKOJ's Violent Urgency, get them deep into enemy territory, remove a unit and then have a road block he either had to kill or walk around. That was a real game turning play as far as my side of the board goes.

It's what allowed me to drive deep into his territory, table him and take control of his objective.

Now onto the strategies I had in mind with Option 1: Buffing Skullreapers, or taking blocks of 20+ Bloodreavers, for tons of dice.

Option 2: Target key units with Blood Boil for D6 Mortal Wounds, but apparently their 6+ Feel No Pain triggers even on Mortal Wounds (because of course it does), so it can be difficult to kill with this, but even so weaken a Nagash or other key unit. Also force them to run toward me into an unfavorable position should the opportunity presents itself.

Option 3: I've also considered fighting fire with fire, but it may be a mistake. I'd like to buy and try out Skarbrand. Take 3 Slaughterpriests, possibly Gore Pilgrims, take Resanguinate on 1 of them and Blood Sacrifice on the other 2. Start turning up the heat on Skarbrand turn 1, then heal him when it gets a bit dicey. I'll have those 2 points in the bank for an instant NOPE on a spell via blood tithe, and/or summon demons. I don't have but it seems like an inevitability that I must get them, so I shall.  So either combat their regeneration with summoning, or get badass clutch plays with sacrificing Blood Reavers or heating up Skarbrand in the hero phase then allowing him to attack, or charge in the hero phase, or just summon tons of stuff, or even heal all my good units D3 mortal wounds. Literally that was another game turning moment against the IDK, I healed up all my injured Wrathmongers, Skullreapers, Khorgorath, LOKOJ, and Blood Warriors with had between 1-2 wounds each. Absolutely critical, getting back into fighting shape and full strength.

I find the best BT rewards to be 2-5. Brass Meteor sucks, I don't have anything to summon atm, and 7 points to give them all the basic blood warriors ability is like....maybe useful if your opponent gets a double turn and you know they're about to smash you with a hammer? It's just never come up for me.

Question: Can I stock up 8 BT points and summon Skarbrand, since he's a Bloodthirster?

[Aspirant Snaeper]

I do not believe you can summon Skarbrand. Gotta pony up the points for him up front.

But that's okay, because you want him getting hit and going nuclear. 

Semi-related: I love Bloodreavers because they're such good chaff most of the time. But if you turn your attention on them, they can become absolute murder machines. If you play against a lot of the same opponents, being able to draw their attention away from them after a few matches by throwing them away will really surprise them when you give them a boat load of attacks and mulch through anything, allowing the stronger units that can hold their own to broaden the power level across your whole army. 

My gaming group used to think nothing of my Bloodreavers. Then they got bit and haven't trusted them since. 

I also liked them more when they were only 60 points and didn't have a save, because then it didn't matter what you sent them against. It essentially negated any advantage of high rend weaponry since there was nothing to rend! 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[MOMUS]

Yday played two games against mixed bag night haunt, I'll post up my thoughts later.

Couldn't help but chime in with the nagash talk, he's easily one of the most powerful models in the game and it is aneurism inducing to play against. From playing against him I would say his only main weakness is points.  

If you fight him you know you'll be fighting a lot less other troops-this is somewhat mitigated by abilities which buff the whole undead army.

My main tactic I would use against him would be to ignore him, the only units which can take him out are MLOK, Wrathmongers and skarbrand*. I would use Wrath mongers as a suicide run on nagash but for the most part ignore him and focus on the objectives and destroying the other undead units. 

 

* I had thought about 'fire against fire' strategy @Ravinsild mentioned but it's not worth it. Nagash is a huge investment but can be offensive, defensive and a support piece for an entire army. Skarbrand is just a one dimensional investment.

Also 'big model smash durr' is not why I play wargames.

 

Furthermore @Ravinsild if I was in your position I would've had a game against the idoneth player and left the others to their game. AoS is still in its infancy, points and factions are still very volatile, while this is the case you'll still get chumps taking smash armies. If you really want to get good have a look at who is coming top with what armies in the UK scene and start swatting up on YouTube/twitch streams just bear in mind you'll loose a lot while learning.

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by MOMUS

[Ravinsild]

5 hours ago, MOMUS said:

Yday played two games against mixed bag night haunt, I'll post up my thoughts later.

Couldn't help but chime in with the nagash talk, he's easily one of the most powerful models in the game and it is aneurism inducing to play against. From playing against him I would say his only main weakness is points.  

If you fight him you know you'll be fighting a lot less other troops-this is somewhat mitigated by abilities which buff the whole undead army.

My main tactic I would use against him would be to ignore him, the only units which can take him out are MLOK, Wrathmongers and skarbrand*. I would use Wrath mongers as a suicide run on nagash but for the most part ignore him and focus on the objectives and destroying the other undead units. 

 

* I had thought about 'fire against fire' strategy @Ravinsild mentioned but it's not worth it. Nagash is a huge investment but can be offensive, defensive and a support piece for an entire army. Skarbrand is just a one dimensional investment.

Also 'big model smash durr' is not why I play wargames.

 

Furthermore @Ravinsild if I was in your position I would've had a game against the idoneth player and left the others to their game. AoS is still in its infancy, points and factions are still very volatile, while this is the case you'll still get chumps taking smash armies. If you really want to get good have a look at who is coming top with what armies in the UK scene and start swatting up on YouTube/twitch streams just bear in mind you'll loose a lot while learning.

 

It may sound weird to say it, but I almost like losing more. I won against the Idoneth deepkin player tabling him by turn 3. I learned a minimal amount. 

I learned Crimson Rain is pretty nice, Murderlust can be clutch and so the the fight in the hero phase, and that Wrathmongers aren’t garbage. (They single handedly took out 6 eel riders and then when 2 died against a pack of Lamarti Reavers his General was within 2” and made him kill him self lmao). 

However with every loss I then start to entirely rethink strategies and come up with weird ways to win: such as the fighting fire with Fire strategy. 

The whole Blood Sacrifice / Resanguination thing I’m not sure has ever been done before, using his HP as a resource and making his stronger, then healing him to keep him around longer. 

I feel like 99% of players default to Killing Frenzy or Bronzed Flesh And never think about the other blessings. 

I guess I play Wargames to see if I can come up with viable underdog strategies or think outside the box (like Bloodsecrator-less Khorne and the SKARBRAND thing) even if it turns into big monster smash time. 

I enjoy teasing out strategies and going back to the drawing board and trying to overcome an army I can’t seem to beat... I guess I like winning after adaptation than just easy free wins against bad armies if that makes sense? So I always feel like I learn way more from losing. 

But yes - fighting Death so far has been extremely frustrating and aneurism inducing. 

Speaking of Alternative Underdog strategies: I’ve been thinking about how to get guaranteed first time charges if we go first with The Goretide. 

Once again Blood Sacrifice, this time on all 3 Slaughterpriests. Depending on deployment it will be easier or harder to pull this off. 

Basically bring a block of 20+ Bloodreavers and they are fuel, get 3 hopefully BT points. Hopefully the Blood Bind goes off. Now a unit is out of position. If it’s within a reasonable distance 8 or less I suppose, burn the 3 BT points and murderlust in the Lord. 

Also everyone can move D6 inches in the hero phase and the MLOK can pile in 8”. If your hero is within 3” of the enemy any units within 12” can charge in the hero phase and make 1 attack. 

It’s probably really gimmicky but if you can pull it off it would be an amazing start to a game. 

I’ve also been looking at ways to get as many attacks and improve his +hit and wound as possible to get as many chances at the 5+ delete possible. So far I’ve got “disciple of khorne” command trait (+1 attack), Aspiring Deathbringer, and Bloodsecrator, then the Ghyrstrike for +1/+1. 

Thoughts or opinions? I’m always eager to try out my weird ideas and see if they can actually win. If I can get enough games in, like 10 or 15 see how many times it can work over time to see if it’s reliable. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Ravinsild

[Aspirant Snaeper]

I think going outside of the established meta, especially for an older army like Blades of Khorne is always worthwhile and I look forward to the reports on your testing. 

My focus is primarily on finishing my army aesthetically and then starting a Daughters of Khaine army so I wont be doing much diverse playing. 

@MOMUS I am like minded with you in that I prefer my Bloodbound Heroes with Warriors, 'reavers and 'letters to make up my forces. 

That being said, while Skarbrand isnt always competitive, he's a terrible amount of fun when he deletes things off the board. My friend who plays Death HATES him.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[gertat]

So there has been some chat in this group about alternative builds and lists.

Has anyone thought about a double Gorepilgrims list???

It sounds totally crazy

But next time I will test it.

The list totally lack a kind of punch but hopefully you will be aible to get some punch in by summoning pretty quickly.

With the list you probably will have the first turn.

Spend all 3 commandpoints to autoturn 3 units of Bloodreavers up the board 12”.

And the rest of the shaff come up after them

You should have most of the board covered with almost all of the reavers and warriors running up the board.

Ok they all die but thats what they are there for.

Crazy but worth proxy in fore some testgames

Allegiance: Khorne

Allegiance: Hysh

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (140)
- General

- Berzerker Lord
Slaughterpriest (100)

- Blood sacrifice

- Aetherquarts Brooch
Slaughterpriest (100)

- Blood sacrifice
Bloodsecrator (140)

- Brazen Rune
Slaughterpriest (100)

- Blood sacrifice

- Lens of Refraction
Slaughterpriest (100)

- Blood sacrifice

Battleline
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Blood sacrifice 
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Blood sacrifice

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (200)
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

Edited August 5, 2018 by gertat

[Ravinsild]

5 hours ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

I think going outside of the established meta, especially for an older army like Blades of Khorne is always worthwhile and I look forward to the reports on your testing. 

My focus is primarily on finishing my army aesthetically and then starting a Daughters of Khaine army so I wont be doing much diverse playing. 

@MOMUS I am like minded with you in that I prefer my Bloodbound Heroes with Warriors, 'reavers and 'letters to make up my forces. 

That being said, while Skarbrand isnt always competitive, he's a terrible amount of fun when he deletes things off the board. My friend who plays Death HATES him.

I’m really weird about the aesthetics... personally. It’s why I’ve held off on buying any Bloodletters at all, so I currently don’t play with any summoning. I have in my possession exactly 0 demons because I hate how they look.... except Bloodthirsters. 

I love how traditional demon they look, they remind me of Balor from D&D which was obviously inspired by the Balrog from LOTR. Just big, red, winged and angry. 

Bloodletters on the other hand just look so silly.... their heads are too large for their bodies, their tongues are always out (for some reason), they look like grey aliens, but with small eyes and the Alien from Alien movie head. 

But it’s the only army I have really. I have some Ironjawz, but I don’t want to keep buying half-assed armies and I already have 4500+ points of Khorne Mortals. I’m at a point where I want to completely and thoroughly complete 1 whole project before doing anymore - and that means painted too. All my models are grey plastic RIP. 

So if I’m committing to Khorne, I can’t be fussy about aesthetics if I want to compete at the maximum my army is able to. Right now I’m playing with one hand tied behind my back. I need to get some allied Wizards and see if I can do anything with that (realm spells and endless spells) and try to leverage every angle of the game, and that includes summoning and demons, even though I hate them. 

I want to seriously play some serious tournaments and bring my best and double down on finishing a complete project instead of buying 12 armies halfway and never painting anything. 

[Agent of Chaos]

@gertat By all means do some play testing however I see serious flaws in the strategy.

Two or more battalions is always hard to justify in 2000 points and double gore pilgrims seems especially redundant. The banner abilities don't stack so the only thing you are trying to achieve is a wider net for the banner, however by only having 2 priests in each battalion I'm not sure if your coverage would be that much better than a single battalion with 3 priests. At the end of the day you are only giving an extra attack to blood reavers or blood warriors with very few buffs to hit or wound which is what really makes them sing.

As you noted the lists lacks anything with punch and relies on a heap of summoning to be competitive. It looks like you will be drowning in blood tithe however summoned units have to be wholly within 12" of a hero, more than 9" from enemy units, and your heroes are likely to spend most of their time at the back of the table supporting the units in front of them.  If your opponent manages to deep strike into your backfield then you will find it very difficult to place any summoned units and if your opponent is camping on his side of the table, your summoned units may need a turn or two to get into fighting range. 

The list lacks any decent melee heroes and has no command abilities other than the generic ones. The slaughterpriests are 5+ save with 5 wounds so the bloodsecrators are the only hero with remote staying power and as noted above, without heroes you can't summon.

If you want the double battalion for the extra artifact/command point/low drops then some ppl have had success with gore pilgrims and brass stampede.

[Luke1705]

For what it’s worth, Skarbrand is not going to solve the Nagash problem. It always looks like he could until you remember that Nagash has his hand of dust spell, so 50/50 skarbrand is dead. Even if you bring an auto unbind, he will still likely get a cast or two off before you charge Nagash, if his screening units ever even let you do so.

Bloodletters are very VERY good vs death. Mortal wounds are so important with death being immune to rend and you can buff your bloodletters to do mortals very reliably. Find some alternative sculpts if you don’t like the current ones. Personally I just go for the old metal bloodletters. More expensive but I’m with you in that I will never field a GW plastic bloodletter. The thirster isn’t bad (and beyond cool as far as the model goes) but it is not as efficient as 20 bloodletters, which are also 1 less blood tithe point.

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Luke1705 said:

For what it’s worth, Skarbrand is not going to solve the Nagash problem. It always looks like he could until you remember that Nagash has his hand of dust spell, so 50/50 skarbrand is dead. Even if you bring an auto unbind, he will still likely get a cast or two off before you charge Nagash, if his screening units ever even let you do so.

Bloodletters are very VERY good vs death. Mortal wounds are so important with death being immune to rend and you can buff your bloodletters to do mortals very reliably. Find some alternative sculpts if you don’t like the current ones. Personally I just go for the old metal bloodletters. More expensive but I’m with you in that I will never field a GW plastic bloodletter. The thirster isn’t bad (and beyond cool as far as the model goes) but it is not as efficient as 20 bloodletters, which are also 1 less blood tithe point.

You know I’ve been wondering how viable it is to go as deep into anti-magic as possible, and if it’s worth the sacrifices. 

I was one of the people who had some success with Brass Stampede and Gore Pilgrims and I also had success with Brass Stampede and Skulltake, and I may or may not have played Gore Pilgrims and Skulltake, but I can’t remember. 

Only one game per list though, more research required.

Anyway, if we really want to we can absolutely turn up the heat on Wizards. Mighty Lord of Khorne gets a dispel, Slaughterpriests get a base of one and have a 50/50 chance to get a second should they choose that blessing. There’s also Flesh Hounds, plus The Brass Rune or Collar of Khorne for basically spell mortal wound save and burn it for an instant nope or just more dispelling chances. Karanak, Riptooth and the Bloodsecrators forced re-rolls. Then finally 2 blood tithe points for a hard nope on any spell anywhere on the board. 

It seems entirely possible we could build an absolutely filthy counter magic list as far as being ridiculously difficult to get any spells off - however for everything gained something must be lost. 

For instance, I’ve heard (but I can’t find where it says this anywhere and I’ve read the FAQ and errata and Warscrolls) you must take Magore’s Fiends if you want to take Riptooth, and they’re not exactly amazing if I’m not mistaken. 

Similarly, if taking Karanak, there’s another hero you aren’t taking, and if you’re taking Bloodsecrator and SP x3 that’s 1 of two hero slots used up assuming you’re taking 6 heroes to begin with, and the competition is fierce. 

Then if you’re automatically denying spells you’re either not summoning or not doing 7 other things you possibly could do, and/or you’re losing your mortal wounds vs spells save. 

Then if you’re taking double dispels for our SP’s you’re not taking +1 save, hit, blood tithe points or heals, or passing battleshock automatically (of all the blessings I think  this one might be the closest to having no value because Inspiring Presence, Bloodsecrator, Exalted Deathbringer and other things...) 

And if you’re not taking Flesh Hounds in your list then you’re summoning them and if you’re summoning them then you’re not doing 8 other things or summoning letters... 

So I don’t know how worth it or viable such a list would be, but no one can deny the options are definitely there. 

It may be worth running an experimental list versus Tzeentch or Nagash or Kroak just to see. 

 

 

[Ravinsild]

As for Blessings and Strategies: the Blood Sacrifice + Resanguination on SKARBRAND seems like an all eggs in one basket kind of strategy, but I really want to use it at least once or twice just to see if it’s glorious. 

However giving old boy some classic +1 to hit or two and a +1 to save could be more efficient and less... memey/gimmicky. 

The heal, however, if I’m running 3 SP’s is starting to look more and more appealing to me. Just keeping your general going longer or a Khorgorath or hell even Skullreapers, any multiwound model or unit that can keep going... plus the Blood Tithe heal, boy howdy I find myself enjoying that “reward”, or whatever it’s called. Option. The only two I haven’t really considered is the old Magebane Hex and Battleshock Immunity, but for me Magebane Hex on at least one isn’t entirely out of the question. 

Then there’s the sneaky boy way to try and get rid of Nagash. Now I personally want to try out a The Goretide list, but honestly any list with a Mighty Lord of Khorne might work. Possibly even a Brass Stampede, as an alpha strike or the old murderhost or whatever with the Gore Pilgrims and the 30 Bloodletters. We need a way to break the screens and open the way to Nagash (or whatever big scary named monster is hiding behind a wall or bodies). 

Now old boy only has 3 base attacks, and I’m not sure how his ability exactly works, as it says roll a dice for each model that suffered 1 or more wounds, so I don’t know if it’s rolled once, or once per wound, but if we can get his attacks to more than 3 either way it’s more chances for wounds and more chances to delete. This one isn’t even necessarily all eggs in one basket either because the SP’s can take the usual and so forth. 

A Bloodsecrator within range (which it’s entirely possibly it may be the default 18” depending on the list and whether you went Brass Stampede or not) and a friendly neighborhood Aspiring Deathbringer wholly within 10” away will crank that bad boy up to 5 attacks. Give ourselves a Disciple of Khorne command trait and that right there is 6 attacks. 

Now there’s some choices. We can go the long way or the short way, and also the weird way. The short way is Ghyrstrike for a +1 to hit and +1 to wound, jam bam thank you ma’am that’s +2/+2/-1/D3.

The Long way is Slaughterpriest with a Killing Frenzy and a LoKoJ granting ole buddy a +1 wound on the charge, but then we can take a Gorecleaver for another -1 rend for -2 rend and a chance for mortal wounds. 

The weird way is a combination of one of the two choices above and a Chaos Sorcerer Lord casting his spell which allows oneself to re-roll hit, wound and save rolls or 1. 

Getting our Mighty Lord mighty consistent with getting those wounds in I should hope and now we pray for 5’s and tell Nagash see ya l8er. 

Half of these things are just stuff you’d have anyway (LoKoJ, SP, Bloodsecrator, Killing Frenzy, etc..) the only gimmicky weird stuff would be trying to get him in super early in a The Goretide (can pile in 8” in the hero phase so a blood bind could help, and a gimmicky Blood Sacrifice on all priests for a move in the hero phase to try their damnedest to almost guarantee it) or bringing a Chaos Sorcerer Lord I think. The rest is fairly ordinary stuff, although the Aspiring Deathbringer May be difficult to fit in in some cases. 

It’s more ordinary than relying on a SKARBRAND though and might just be worth building even a basic Gore Pilgrims list around. 

Any thoughts on going all in on the attack front with our fine young friend the MLOK? 

[Luke1705]

Flesh hounds are great, especially in a murderhost. All that extra movement and blood tithe OP

[phizzco]

what about leveraging valkia for 12' move +6-7 times d3 wounds on her attacks?

[Praecautus]

2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

You know I’ve been wondering how viable it is to go as deep into anti-magic as possible, and if it’s worth the sacrifices. 

I was one of the people who had some success with Brass Stampede and Gore Pilgrims and I also had success with Brass Stampede and Skulltake, and I may or may not have played Gore Pilgrims and Skulltake, but I can’t remember. 

Only one game per list though, more research required.

Anyway, if we really want to we can absolutely turn up the heat on Wizards. Mighty Lord of Khorne gets a dispel, Slaughterpriests get a base of one and have a 50/50 chance to get a second should they choose that blessing. There’s also Flesh Hounds, plus The Brass Rune or Collar of Khorne for basically spell mortal wound save and burn it for an instant nope or just more dispelling chances. Karanak, Riptooth and the Bloodsecrators forced re-rolls. Then finally 2 blood tithe points for a hard nope on any spell anywhere on the board. 

It seems entirely possible we could build an absolutely filthy counter magic list as far as being ridiculously difficult to get any spells off - however for everything gained something must be lost. 

For instance, I’ve heard (but I can’t find where it says this anywhere and I’ve read the FAQ and errata and Warscrolls) you must take Magore’s Fiends if you want to take Riptooth, and they’re not exactly amazing if I’m not mistaken. 

Similarly, if taking Karanak, there’s another hero you aren’t taking, and if you’re taking Bloodsecrator and SP x3 that’s 1 of two hero slots used up assuming you’re taking 6 heroes to begin with, and the competition is fierce. 

Then if you’re automatically denying spells you’re either not summoning or not doing 7 other things you possibly could do, and/or you’re losing your mortal wounds vs spells save. 

Then if you’re taking double dispels for our SP’s you’re not taking +1 save, hit, blood tithe points or heals, or passing battleshock automatically (of all the blessings I think  this one might be the closest to having no value because Inspiring Presence, Bloodsecrator, Exalted Deathbringer and other things...) 

And if you’re not taking Flesh Hounds in your list then you’re summoning them and if you’re summoning them then you’re not doing 8 other things or summoning letters... 

So I don’t know how worth it or viable such a list would be, but no one can deny the options are definitely there. 

It may be worth running an experimental list versus Tzeentch or Nagash or Kroak just to see. 

 

 

Anti magic is very viable, earlier in this thread is a discussion that brought up a great list tooled to take on Tzeentch. It's basically built to make magic hard to get off so as many unbinds as possible and then many units have MW negating abilities e.g. Chaos knights.

It is an AoS 1 list though so points may have changed plus the 30 inch unbind range may allow this to be tweaked a bit further.

 

[Ravinsild]

12 minutes ago, phizzco said:

what about leveraging valkia for 12' move +6-7 times d3 wounds on her attacks?

Honestly I don't even know what she is or what she does, but I'll check her out. Is she any good? I've never seen anyone really talk about her, kind of like Scyla Anfingrimm lol...