AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[mastercrafted]

Thanks @Agent of Chaos, i used chaos knights in my last game. I do love them, but they failed a charge and got swamped but maybe i'll try them again. Only bloodbound i currently have is from the old starter set, but i have a load of daemons from 40k. No Flesh hounds though, but as soon as plastic ones are out i'm all over them

[Ravinsild]

2 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

I'm finding I tend to run one unit of 30 Bloodletters, or sometimes a large block of chaos warriors instead, with the rest of the army being MSU however I am yet to leave the Bloodsecrator at home. There is definitely scope for not taking one but extra attacks are so damn good. However if you're not running gore pilgrims to boost the banner's range its easy to find your faster units and enemy wizards outside its effects. Keep in mind also that in some battle plans you need to keep someone on a home objective so he fills that role nicely and boosts any other friendly units who hang back with him.

For all intents and purposes this is the main concern I have for many of my lists. 

I come from a Chaos/Space Marine background in 40k where there’s almost no reason to ever run more than 10 marines in a unit (in my experience) and so I just sort of transferred that mentality into AoS. A lot of my lists are fast moving and push deep into enemy territory. 

I’m not that good at the game, but I also don’t play hyper competitive people. Most people in my meta play A LOT of Destruction - Ironjawz are very popular, Bonesplittaz, BCR, Moonclan Grots are all commonly seen. There’s another guy who plays dispossessed. I know one guy who plays Seraphon and one guy who plays Death & Skaven. 

My friend plays Sylvaneth but is sort of bored with them and I know a person who has and sometimes play Stormcast but I barely ever see him. All this magic heavy meta talk and Nagash and DoK snake lady and Tzeentch just isn’t happening here right now. At least I haven’t played those lists. 

On the other hand it doesn’t mean tournament players playing for real will not be playing those - they probably will. 

However right now my playstyle has developed into hyper aggressive melee brawling playstyle and honestly I’m undefeated with my World Eaters (had a few ties though) and I have more wins than losses in AoS and with my Khorne in general. 

Going so far forward means if I plant my Bloodsecrator 1st turn my guys will probably be out of his bubble since I don’t rely on Gore Pilgrims. I’ve tested Brass Stampede and I love it - I just need a consistent follow up answer after the Alpha Strike because I don’t think MSK have what it takes to carry a whole game themselves. 

I love Skulltake however and have won 3 games with it. I’m going to be testing out The Goretide hopefully this weekend. 

All this to say it’s probably all been tested by actual good people against the best lists and there’s a reason nobody plays like me. That is because it doesn’t win tournaments. However I guess I’ll just have to try it out for myself. 

On the other hand it could potentially win by bringing off-meta playstyles instead of the standard and predictable plant down playstyle. I’m more mobile and tend to push forward aggressively. 

Overall though there’s nothing new under the sun and people have probably tested every battalion against every army and composition and there’s a reason no one is running anything but Gore Pilgrims but it won’t stop me from trying something different. I won’t say “new” because obviously all of this stuff has been around since AoS 1. 

Sometimes I just want to see what a unit can do completely supported. I’m always unimpressed with Blood Warriors but what if I could get them to a 2+/2+ or 2+/3+ or whatever and re-rolling 1’s and with tons of attacks - could they be amazing? 

I know Skullreapers are. I want to keep trying out Wrathmongers and find their place, and I want a fully buffed turbo charged Khorgorath game to see what that thing can do with the chains unleashed. 

I mean - I used Brass Meteor the other day (because I don’t use blood tithe for summoning because I don’t have any demons in my collection and I have 4500+ points of Mortals heh) and it basically sucks. 

On the other hand the fight again thing - especially for buffed out Skullreapers is absolutely Unit. 

I’m looking forward to more Blood Tithe experiments and finding out for myself what’s worth it. Maybe that healing one would be good on MSK or Skullreapers or even the Khorgorath >:D

[Gotrek]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

</snip>

Going so far forward means if I plant my Bloodsecrator 1st turn my guys will probably be out of his bubble since I don’t rely on Gore Pilgrims. I’ve tested Brass Stampede and I love it - I just need a consistent follow up answer after the Alpha Strike because I don’t think MSK have what it takes to carry a whole game themselves. 

</snip>

Bring a second bloodsecrator and leapfrog them. One plants the banner, the other runs forward to plant the banner next turn.

[MOMUS]

That seems like a massive waste, I would just plant it second turn. There doesn't seem to be much shooting in his meta so he could probably weather the first turn long range damage.

[Ravinsild]

18 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

That seems like a massive waste, I would just plant it second turn. There doesn't seem to be much shooting in his meta so he could probably weather the first turn long range damage.

I know one guy who plays Kharadron Overlords but I haven’t actually seen him play in the store since... probably his 3rd game. 

Apparently he has a table at his house and I think that’s most of it. A lot of people who used to play at the GW store got their clubs together and someone got a table at their house and so the pool of players has shrunk down to a bunch of people that play weird and off-meta armies heh. 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

I think, any time you can get away with not using the Bloodsecrator, do it! Good opportunity to try other things out and fit the army to your playing style. 

Without the Bloodsecrator present, it sounds like you're taking advantage of your speedier units (since he's not anchoring your movement), and as you said, the MSU philosophy mitigates the loss of bravery ignoring. 

I don't see why you're having trouble with a second punch after the Alpha Strike. Khorne has access to a lot of good elite infantry as well as vicious mobs in the form of Bloodreavers. It sounds like GHB2 (haven't played since it came out, sadly, as my game group has kinda drifted) has made playing with two Battalions to be an unrealistic proposition, otherwise I would've suggested a Dark Feast battalion or something along those lines. But I think some buffed infantry should be able to hit follow up a Cavalry charge. What is your experience? 

I personally only have two units of Bloodcrushers and my one unit of Mighty Skullcrushers has been under assembly for longer than three models ought to, sadly, so I don't have a lot of experience with Khorne's infantry. Thus, I rely on hard hitting tough infantry to win my games. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[Ravinsild]

16 minutes ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

I think, any time you can get away with not using the Bloodsecrator, do it! Good opportunity to try other things out and fit the army to your playing style. 

Without the Bloodsecrator present, it sounds like you're taking advantage of your speedier units (since he's not anchoring your movement), and as you said, the MSU philosophy mitigates the loss of bravery ignoring. 

I don't see why you're having trouble with a second punch after the Alpha Strike. Khorne has access to a lot of good elite infantry as well as vicious mobs in the form of Bloodreavers. It sounds like GHB2 (haven't played since it came out, sadly, as my game group has kinda drifted) has made playing with two Battalions to be an unrealistic proposition, otherwise I would've suggested a Dark Feast battalion or something along those lines. But I think some buffed infantry should be able to hit follow up a Cavalry charge. What is your experience? 

I personally only have two units of Bloodcrushers and my one unit of Mighty Skullcrushers has been under assembly for longer than three models ought to, sadly, so I don't have a lot of experience with Khorne's infantry. Thus, I rely on hard hitting tough infantry to win my games. 

I have 4500 points assembled... but none of them are primed or painted ;-; I’ve chosen a list to concentrate on and I’m finishing buying the paints I need this weekend! 

My experience is actually pretty good. I’m just not sure how valid or an experience it is. 

Long story short I brought a list with 2 battalions (Brass Stampede and Skulltake) and it went just as planned, but my opponent was an easy one. 

I’m afraid dispossessed just aren’t a good Army to test against because they’re just plain bad. He had a lot of shooting, dwarves with big old hand cannons, 40 shots from 20 crossbow men and an Organ Grinder plus a helicopter but that.... barely did much. I tabled him by the 4th turn and had accrued like 8 victory points with my Slaughterpriests camping objectives (places of power battleplan) while he didn’t score a single one. 

I had 5 blood tithe points turn 1 between both our turns and some of my Mighty Skullcrushers lasted until the end of the game. They’re just rock solid tanky but don’t exactly put a hurt on anyone. 

Meanwhile 1 squad of Skullreapers deleted that 20 man crossbow squad easily and my Khorgorath put a dent into some Warriors. 

It was a deadly lethal combination but I’m not sure it would have turned out well against any other army. 

I had 12 Mighty Skullcrushers 

5 Blood Warriors 

10 Skullreapers 

1 Khorgorath 

those were my total troops. All MSU. 

The heroes (Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut is just so so so good everything about him) Aspiring Deathbringer, Bloodstoker and 2 Slaughterpriests. 

So I guess if I drop the Skulltake Battalion cost I can fill out with a few more units and get a more full list. Skullreapers and Khorgoraths are worth it even outside of their Battalion. 

I’m not sure what else I would bring. 

[Dan.Ford]

There been a change to the FAQ from the old faq that effects the  Crimson Crown. I posted it in the TGA  General chat as may effect other abilities in other armies.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Dan.Ford

[Scrags]

Just checked the FAQ page and can't find any differences. Where did you say your post was again? 

[ledha]

The army can't work without the bloodsecrator.

If you are afraid that he will be outpaced by the rest of your army, you can use bloodtithe to make him move in hero phase.

[Ravinsild]

So. Just had a crushing defeat after 1 turn in which victory was in every aspect impossible. 

I find Nighthaunt to quite frankly be ****** ******, but they’re the new flavor of the month, so now I have to learn how to beat them. 

My goal for the game was to test the effectiveness of our basic Battleline and...I still think they’re useless. 

Nighthaunt fly, ignore all rend, regenerate dead units from multiple sources, and is just generally frustrating to play against. 5/6+ FNP is obnoxious. 

By the end of turn one I had put out 30+ dice from 10 Bloodreavers who did... 2 whole wounds. Wowee. 

My goal was to see if buffed beyond all reason our basic Battleline would do... anything. They don’t. They just die and do nothing in return. 

By the end of my opponents first turn I had lost 2 full units (1 of 10 BW 1 of 10 Bloodreavers). 

Any models I had killed were revived in his hero phase bringing his units all back to full strength and I just conceded. It was 1000 points so I had 20 BR and 20 BW. I deployed somewhat poorly too so I’ve been keeping an eye on planning to go second and give them really difficult charges but alas 2 of his units ransacked 10 of my BW first turn, and since I hadn’t planted my banner, 3 ran from battleshock. 

So what I learned: keep revising how I deploy and I don’t like our Battleline. 

Without summoning and demons it’s entirely possible I just can’t win this match up, however I’m fairly confident in the mortal wounds and alpha strike of Mighty Skullcrushers and the follow up from Skullreapers and Khorgoraths. I don’t think they bring anything big enough to warrant Wrathmongers but I could be wrong. 

Any strategies or suggestions for fighting Nighthaunt? 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

One of my game group played Death and it was equally as frustrating. In fact, as I recall, I think I may have only ever beaten him once. 

I believe Death's weakness is synergies, much like our own army. Use your Slaughterpriests and any ranged  attack you can muster to try to remove the heads of the undead snake. Use your Battleline as screens for hordes to avoid your better units and characters from getting tied up. 

This is an area where the Mighty Lord of Khorne, Skarbrand and the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (Especially the BoIR!) can shine. The MLoK and Skarbrand can delete large single units off the board, which prevents your opponent from healing or replenishing their wounds. The BoIR can wipe hordes of Skeletons with his axe if the dice are rolling well. 

Otherwise, stack up on Slaughterpriests and pray your enemies leaders to death. I hate to say it, but Gore Pilgrims. 

Also, if you have Chaos Warriors with Shields, use them. Those shields help their survival rate by magnitudes against Death. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[Ravinsild]

45 minutes ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

One of my game group played Death and it was equally as frustrating. In fact, as I recall, I think I may have only ever beaten him once. 

I believe Death's weakness is synergies, much like our own army. Use your Slaughterpriests and any ranged  attack you can muster to try to remove the heads of the undead snake. Use your Battleline as screens for hordes to avoid your better units and characters from getting tied up. 

This is an area where the Mighty Lord of Khorne, Skarbrand and the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (Especially the BoIR!) can shine. The MLoK and Skarbrand can delete large single units off the board, which prevents your opponent from healing or replenishing their wounds. The BoIR can wipe hordes of Skeletons with his axe if the dice are rolling well. 

Otherwise, stack up on Slaughterpriests and pray your enemies leaders to death. I hate to say it, but Gore Pilgrims. 

Also, if you have Chaos Warriors with Shields, use them. Those shields help their survival rate by magnitudes against Death. 

Sadly I don’t yet have any Chaos Warriors. The rest of this sounds great. I can, in fact, run Gore Pilgrims  

I believe all of his units can fly. The fact that they can fly means they can move over his own units correct? 

If this is true is it worth trying to pull them out front and then charging them and trying to immediately destroy them, or should I simply blood boil them to death? 

[phizzco]

Stupid question but can you use a blood tithe ability AND summon in the same turn to use all of your points, like you can summon more than 1 type of unit?

[Galdenistal]

17 minutes ago, phizzco said:

Stupid question but can you use a blood tithe ability AND summon in the same turn to use all of your points, like you can summon more than 1 type of unit?

Once you use a Blood Tithe ability then you lose all remaining Blood Tithe, so your hero phase usage would have to kill something to generate more Blood Tithe. Then at the end of the movement phase you could then use the new Blood Tithe to summon something.

[Ravinsild]

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General
- Trait: Violent Urgency  
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodstoker (80)
- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood  

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades

Units
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- x Spinecleavers
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149
 

This would be a list I would try against Nighthaunt. Re-rolling 1’s is more useful than -1 Rend in their case. 

If I can stay within 12” with my Bloodreavers that’s gotta be 60+ attacks and honestly if that doesn’t do something I don’t know what to say. 

I would take Killing Frenzy x2 and Resanguination to use on my General or the Khorgorath. 

I don’t know if they have any big multiwound models worth bringing Wrathmongers for - if not I feel they’d be more of a liability. What would I drop them for? 

On the other hand swap to Meatripper Axes and keep the Wrathmongers for a “take all comers” kind of list - what do you think? 

I prefer MSU but maybe blocks of 20 reavers is the way to go. It’s going to take professional AF positioning to get them all in combat though why is why I prefer MSU but whatever. 

[mastercrafted]

Can the lord of khorne on Juggernaut use his command trait on himself?

[MOMUS]

16 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

Can the lord of khorne on Juggernaut use his command trait on himself?

Only if he's in range.

 

Interesting thoughts on the night haunt match up, I also play a death army regularly. Unfortunately most of the time it's nagash or arkhan, I should get a game in this week will post up once done.

[Dan.Ford]

9 hours ago, Scrags said:

Just checked the FAQ page and can't find any differences. Where did you say your post was again? 

This was left out on the new FAQ, but it may effect other armies so I put it in the General chat.

[mastercrafted]

15 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

Only if he's in range.

But what if he isnt?

 

I'm planning on using the blade of endless bloodshed on mine, and thinking of the best ways of ensuring kills. Reroll hits in combat or +1a trait? Or reroll charges to make the most of his command ability on himself? 

[Ravinsild]

25 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

Only if he's in range.

 

Interesting thoughts on the night haunt match up, I also play a death army regularly. Unfortunately most of the time it's nagash or arkhan, I should get a game in this week will post up once done.

I’ve heard that their biggest weakness is just spitting dice at them so I’ve tried to double down on synergy and squeeze out as many attacks as possible to do exactly that, since they ignore rend. 

Also sniping their heroes, but we don’t have shooting, so it’s either repositioning them and charging them and hoping to swarm them with dice  or trying to D6 mortal wounds them to death (HURR DURR 6+ FNP I CONSTANTLY ROLL 6’s REEEEEEE) I’m not salty I swear. 

Other than that do they have any weaknesses? I mean that doesn’t seem like very many. “Hit then with lots of attacks and/or kill their heroes” is like....

Ironjawz and Khorne (without STD allies) are almost universally susceptible to shooting (all melee all the time) mortal wounds (no save after a save to ignore it ;-;), low bravery (need Golden Tooth or Secrator planted, so if you go second RIP), powerful magic (Khorne is better at this, but IJ have like 1 Wizard a list and if they’re spitting spells then...) for IJ especially no way to win wars of attrition aka “I get more units because reasons”.

Not to mention things that either a) ignore rend b) have low saves (3/4+) and/or c) are multi-wound models (2+) can be a real chore to slug through. Blocks of Boarboy Maniaks and 30+ Moarboys (60+ wounds) just take forever to rip through in generic melee even with the Khornemowers on full blast. Our options for high rend and more than 1 damage is limited to: heroes and Khorgorath, and special weapons (Goreglaive, Soultearer). Sigh. 

Mighty Skullcrushers and certain heroes (1 or 3) are mildly better at dealing with Mortal wounds, but only under the condition that they are from spells, and only if you have those units, and only if they have those equipment options in the case of said heroes. 

My personal Khorne army is also weak to this because I literally don’t have any models to use for summoning, so I have what I have and when they’re dead nothing is replacing them. 

So I’ll have to study these Nighthaunt ****** more and find their weaknesses. Nobody is reporting anything in their thread on Death. They’re just whining about model prices. I guess they don’t lose often. 

I don’t want to call them overpowered, and I take full responsibility for being a pretty trash on my deployment (I deployed one unit off in the boonies thinking we were playing for objectives so for all intents and purposes they may as well have not been in the game) is this ****** nugget had played like 2 games of AoS literally total and won by essentially turn 1 because apparently I didn’t throw ENOUGH dice at him and his saves and FNP reduced my wounds from like 5 a turn to 1 or 2 and then just regrew everything whilst mowing down my Reavers and Blood Warriors. 

My list was experimental in trying to see how much I can get out of my basic Battleline fully buffed and... it’s still next to nothing so I may as well ignore them and just rely on actual good units. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Ravinsild

[Ravinsild]

5 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

But what if he isnt?

 

I'm planning on using the blade of endless bloodshed on mine, and thinking of the best ways of ensuring kills. Reroll hits in combat or +1a trait? Or reroll charges to make the most of his command ability on himself? 

MOMUS was ****** with you. He can never not be within 24” of himself because, I don’t know, science. Since the 24” range always extends outward from himself at all times he can never be outside of his own self. 

Unless astral projection. Heh. 

Try +1 attack trait and Ghyrstrike. +1 to hit +1 to wound use his command trait on other units, get stuck in, profit. 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Ravinsild

[mastercrafted]

Yeah i know he was, just thought i'd give some back!

@Ravinsild what is ghyrstrike?

?

[Ravinsild]

4 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

Yeah i know he was, just thought i'd give some back!

@Ravinsild what is ghyrstrike?

?

It’s a realm Artifact Weapon from Ghyran the realm of life that just gives a +1 to hit and +1 to wound to your weapon(s?). 

For the LOJ it would only buff his axe as mounts do not profit from such items, but for guys with more than 1 weapon I’m not sure if it effects all of them or you pick a weapon. 

Either way I’m trying it out on a Mighty Lord of Khorne for +2/+2/-1/D3 and cranking as many attacks out of him as I can to increase the amount of unsaved wounds sneaking through and therefore the amount of dice I can try to get a 5+ on to just remove it in one go.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Ravinsild

[ledha]

After my 3 battles against nighthaunts, skullreapers are the way to go. The combinaison saturation of no-rend attacks + mortal wound make them really efficient against nighthaunts. I had good sucess with my Gore Pilgrim against very good nightaunts list (3x30 grimghast, hurgh) and i will try the skulltake.

Bloodreavers are useless against them, but bloodwarriors can do some work.

Edited August 1, 2018 by ledha