AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Roark]

8 hours ago, Coyote said:

What is our current - UNBUFFED - Unit deleter?  

UNBUFFED meaning a unit engaging without a Priest prayer,  without Command Abilty, without Battalion ability etc.

What unit are we putting on the table that can square up with nearly every other unit in the game and consistently win combats, and Delete other units?

We've never had a unit like this IMHO. The army has pretty much always worked along the lines of networks of buffs, since Day 1.

[phizzco]

khorgorath?

[Agent of Chaos]

I dont think Khorne could be any more-anti magic. Between the Bloodsecrator banner effect, Brazen Rune, 2 Bloodtithe option and unbinding options from Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster (+2), Flesh hounds (+1 in units of 10 with rerolls from daemon hero), Slaughterpriests, etc. I've shut down Tzeentch and Undead magic regularly with these options. Any more anti-magic at this point is surely just overkill. 

[Zamik]

1 hour ago, Agent of Chaos said:

I dont think Khorne could be any more-anti magic. Between the Bloodsecrator banner effect, Brazen Rune, 2 Bloodtithe option and unbinding options from Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster (+2), Flesh hounds (+1 in units of 10 with rerolls from daemon hero), Slaughterpriests, etc. I've shut down Tzeentch and Undead magic regularly with these options. Any more anti-magic at this point is surely just overkill. 

Wizards shouldn’t just think, Oh they can unbind my spells. They should live in FEAR of their spells failing—it should hurt them and embolden us!

We do have unbinding tools, but I’d like to see a sub-faction that actively hunts wizards.

[Agent of Chaos]

I get you! I guess Karanak's new rule fits that bill and agree it would be awesome to see more of our unbinding units doing damage following successful unbinds. 

A way to dispel endless spells once on the table would be good too although I agree with many who have suggested one of our new endless "somethings" might do that job. 

[TheHarrower]

5 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@TheHarrower You dont even need to "ally" in a warshrine if it has mark of khorne. Dark Feast is nice but its only buffing Reavers and doesnt help the priest become more reliable. The mortal wound output offered by Gore Pilgrims is unmatched at the moment. 

@Forrix The Insensate Rage Thirster is a bit swingy, needing 6's to wound with only 4 attacks, and dies easily so 260 is probably about right. 

Of course you don’t “ally” it in. Poor choice of words. All you need is buffed reavers. I run two squads of 40. With the Secrator, that’s 3 attacks each (4 if within totem range plus the 6+ shrug) re-rolling hits on 1 unit from Favour of Khorne, and -1 rend from the meatripper axes. They do a lot of damage and are immune to Battleshock.

Yeah, the priest isn’t as reliable, but who cares? You have more threats on the board that an opponent needs to chew through and the Shrine does get prayers off on a 3+. Not saying Gore Pilgrims isn’t really solid, but Dark Feast is no slouch.

Insenate Rage IS undercosted. Yeah, you need 6s for mortal wounds, but Gyrstrike gives +1 to hit, +1 to wound. Whip him with the Bloodstoker to reroll 1s to wound, you reroll 1s to hit on the charge, and technically you have 5 attacks because of the Secrator. He’s a bit swingy, but he still does D6 damage per hit. Can he get focused down pretty quick? Sure, but that’s why you take multiple threats. Pair him with a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster and opponents run into target priority issues.

I like where Khorne is at right now. Kinda worried about the new Battletome if I’m being honest. 

[123lac]

1 hour ago, TheHarrower said:

I like where Khorne is at right now. Kinda worried about the new Battletome if I’m being honest. 

What about all of our unused heroes? New tome might make more stuff viable. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[Agent of Chaos]

@TheHarrower I have no doubt 80 reavers buffed that way will do a job for you. Therein lies the problem though (for me anyway), painting 80 reavers? No thanks! I'm happy with the minimum 20 and 5-10 Blood Warriors for gore pilgrims. Thats the beauty of this game though, so many possible army builds to suit whatever your flavour happens to be. 

Priest reliability is a big thing for me because they are such a threat. The flexibility of blood boil/blood bind is great and getting killing frenzy/bronzed flesh/blood sacrifice off can be key to your strategy. Outside of gore pilgrims I feel that priests become a "nice to have but not going to rely on" type of unit which is a shame and makes the requirement of taking one in Dark Feast a bit of a tax for me. having said that, its great to see you loving and being successful with one of the lesser used battalions.

I have no doubt that many people have incredible stories of damage caused by Insensate Rage Thirsters but I bet there are plenty more stories of him whiffing his 4/5 attacks and getting immediately cut to pieces, or not even making it into combat before being focus fired on by an aware opponent. I am interested to know what you think the appropriate points for Insensate Rage is, especially if (when) the mortal wounds are no longer on 6+.

I have mixed feelings on khornes current situation but mostly happy and not wanting too many changes. We have great command traits/artifacts/prayers, multiple battleline options, multiple hero and unit options, some useful battalions, BUT lots of redundant/unuseable battalions, a good number of unused heroes, a poor (albeit fitting) and limited allegiance ability when compared to similar armies.

I think the fact we are getting a new battletome shows that GW recognized that Khorne had been left behind in the AOS2 meta and overall am fairly sure it will be a positive update. 

[TheHarrower]

@Agent of Chaos Painting 80 Reavers was quite the chore I'll tell you. I did it for a tournament last August. Really burned me out. I've painted less than 5 models since. I hear you on Priest reliability. You get 2 prayers on a 4+, so one usually goes off. If they fix anything, I hope they make prayers more reliable without the need for Gore Pilgrims. I get you on the Priest seeming like a tax, but he's part of the battalion and gives all Reavers +1 attack. If anything, he makes his points back for me almost every game, but if you are used to the reroll and dishing out all those mortal wounds then I can see why you feel that way. I think Gore Pilgrims dies next Battletome. I wouldn't be surprised if they rule of 1 prayers.

For me on the Rage Thirster I definitely have more stories of incredible damage and I've never ran a Khorne list without him. Has he whiffed or died before making it into combat? For sure, but almost every game he does a bucket load of damage. D6 is swingy, but there have been times I've done 20+ damage in close combat alone. Having him focus fired off the table usually isn't an issue. If he dies, I have 30 Bloodletters, 40 Reavers, or a WoK Thirster getting where they need to go and putting in work. Right now, I'd pay 285 for a Rage Thirster without batting an eye. When Outrageous Carnage only works on an unmodified 6, 260 is probably about right.

You're probably right on the Battletome. The biggest issue in my mind is the Battalions. There is a lot of useless abilities and the points costs are ridiculous. I do worry we'll lose a lot of their cool rules. In newer Battletomes they are super simple. Gloomspite, for example, has a lot of rerolling 1s abilities. GW has been really good with puttingin multiple builds so I'm looking forward to that. Hopefully all daemons make a comeback. I think Blood Tithe is do for a rework too, so I'm interested to see how that works. One of the designers was talking about future abilities that trigger based on where the army is. I really hope they rework our allegiance ability and give us some kind of buff when in the opponent's half of the table.

Further wishlisting, I hope Bloodletters go back to their previous points pre AoS 2.0. The unmodified hit roll of 6 for Decapitating Blow really diffused Bloodletter Bomb. I'd almost rather take Bloodcrushers or Flesh Hounds. It would also be nice if the Blood Throne/Skull Cannon was worth taking. Skarbrand needs a drop in points too. No way should he be more than a WoK Thirster.

I hope you are right man. We'll see what happens.

[TheHarrower]

2 hours ago, 123lac said:

What about all of our unused heroes? New tome might make more stuff viable. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

Making new stuff viable is good no doubt. It's the invalidating current useful things that I worry about.

[Killax]

16 hours ago, Coyote said:

I’m still a newer AoS player but played WHFB since 2002.  I want to ask a different question- 

What is our current - UNBUFFED - Unit deleter?  

UNBUFFED meaning a unit engaging without a Priest prayer,  without Command Abilty, without Battalion ability etc.

What unit are we putting on the table that can square up with nearly every other unit in the game and consistently win combats, and Delete other units?

i don’t see one right now that - and that’s ok mind you - without having 1 - 3 other variables we have to add to unit to raise Close Combat phase win percentage.  (Buffs, terrain or environmental factors, and sheer tactics mismatch)

Without a strong unit deleter - we are a tactical army (much like the old Wood Elves, minus shooting and magic - ok nothing like the old WE 🙂 ) that needs to maximize the Maneuver phase of Warfare (see vin Clausewitz).

But again, i don’t see a unit (without Buffs) we can just move forward and engage with confidence against most enemy units and win most of the time.

It used to be 30 Bloodletters, at the moment it would be 10 Skullcrushers (how you get them there, is another story) and 5 Wrathmongers if the targets themselves are monsters.

Pretty much all of our units do want  a Command ability buff or Bloodstoker/Bloodsecrator buff offcourse. So completely unbuffed isn't really what Khorne, or AoS is about. So that's pretty much it. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Killax

[jazman84]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

It used to be 30 Bloodletters, at the moment it would be 10 Skullcrushers (how you get them there, is another story) and 5 Wrathmongers if the targets themselves are monsters.

Do you mean Skullreapers?

[mastercrafted]

9 hours ago, phizzco said:

khorgorath?

This unit has grown on me recently, and i'm thinking of trying a unit of 4 if they don't get nerfed. Only problem is finding alternative models for them

[jazman84]

44 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

This unit has grown on me recently, and i'm thinking of trying a unit of 4 if they don't get nerfed. Only problem is finding alternative models for them

That's not as hard as you think.

Just look for a big beastly looking thing on a heavy cav base

I have a finecast Scylla I heated/bent into a lower pose on a heavy cav base with some minor changes that I use as a Korgi. 

[mastercrafted]

6 minutes ago, jazman84 said:

That's not as hard as you think.

Just look for a big beastly looking thing on a heavy cav base

I have a finecast Scylla I heated/bent into a lower pose on a heavy cav base with some minor changes that I use as a Korgi. 

I have two from the old starter set, and i have a couple of old rat ogres i might try and convert - they're not as bulky so i might put two on a base. Just need to find something else - maybe the new trolls could work?

[jazman84]

Maybe get creative with a Jug or Demigriff.

In the fluff they are just beasts that go insane for blood, slaughter, skulls etc.

[Retro]

The chaos spawn kit is great for bits to convert your own khorgoraths

[Coyote]

14 hours ago, phizzco said:

khorgorath?

I’m looking at running a unit of 3+ Khorgoraths - Has anybody done this?  Any success?  

Im having to order Khorgoraths from EBay - have #2 and #3 on the way.

[Retro]

20 minutes ago, Coyote said:

I’m looking at running a unit of 3+ Khorgoraths - Has anybody done this?  Any success?  

Im having to order Khorgoraths from EBay - have #2 and #3 on the way.

I've only ever run them as 1-2. They can be absolutely brutal.

I've always been worried using them in bigger blocks because of the potential battleshock losses

[Zamik]

I have two of them, and I've been looking at the chaos spawn kit to make some more, even though the chaos spawn bases aren't the same size.

I forget, does the Bravery Debuff that they do stack? Say three separate units of Khorgoraths do damage and get to inflict the -1 Bravery penalty--can you really  really ruin an opponent's battleshock phase with -3 bravery within 12"?

[Kazimer]

So are bloodletters now inferior to Reavers and Warriors as a battleline choice? And on that note, are reavers better than warriors? Or do warriors still have a place?

[BDJames]

Hello all

My gaming club is taking up AoS for 2019, and we've divided up armies.  I chose Khorne.  I played AoS a bit when it launched, but nothing in 2.0.  I would greatly appreciate some assistance in building a 2000pt list that can be tournament competitive within the aesthetic design parameters I'm envisioning for painting.

I envision my Khorne army to be mortal, only using demons if summoned.  I'm going with a Robert E. Howard vibe, so heavy emphasis on the human tribes - lots of muscles and dark armor.  In fact, if darkoath were a whole faction, I would probably be going that route, but I think BoK can work just as well.  There are certain models I think better fit this aesthetic than others.  The best being reavers, warriors, most of the heroes, wrathmongers, and from the slaves line units like marauder horsemen, warshrine, and gorebeast chariots.  Also, I think fleshhounds work in this aesthetic.  I would also happily include the darkoath shadespire warband.

I've reviewed many lists on honest wargamer, AOSShorts, etc. and have some sense of what people are playing.  But I could still really use some help before I start buying models.  Thanks so much.

[Kazimer]

Just now, BDJames said:

Hello all

My gaming club is taking up AoS for 2019, and we've divided up armies.  I chose Khorne.  I played AoS a bit when it launched, but nothing in 2.0.  I would greatly appreciate some assistance in building a 2000pt list that can be tournament competitive within the aesthetic design parameters I'm envisioning for painting.

I envision my Khorne army to be mortal, only using demons if summoned.  I'm going with a Robert E. Howard vibe, so heavy emphasis on the human tribes - lots of muscles and dark armor.  In fact, if darkoath were a whole faction, I would probably be going that route, but I think BoK can work just as well.  There are certain models I think better fit this aesthetic than others.  The best being reavers, warriors, most of the heroes, wrathmongers, and from the slaves line units like marauder horsemen, warshrine, and gorebeast chariots.  Also, I think fleshhounds work in this aesthetic.  I would also happily include the darkoath shadespire warband.

I've reviewed many lists on honest wargamer, AOSShorts, etc. and have some sense of what people are playing.  But I could still really use some help before I start buying models.  Thanks so much.

A tournament list without daemons is largely using Gore Pilgrims...In fact, even a Daemon heavy list STILL brings Gore pilgrims. Atm, it's a must.

For the rest of your stuff, some Skullreapers are also really good atm, and so are Khorne lords on Juggernauts. Just be warned that the new book is coming out this year, and that may all change.

[Zamik]

1 hour ago, Kazimer said:

So are bloodletters now inferior to Reavers and Warriors as a battleline choice? And on that note, are reavers better than warriors? Or do warriors still have a place?

It depends on what the role is. I've been using Reavers in units of 10 mainly to entangle my opponent's vanguard in a pointless fight and buy bigger units extra time to get into position. I've been using a block of 10 Blood Warriors as a way of dividing territory, creating lanes for the skullreapers and protecting the advance of heroes into the center. Bloodletters now I just summon, because they can snatch an objective here or there, or at least be a little roving pack of mortal wound potential that the enemy ignores at their peril.

I tend to prefer Reavers as battleline because I can throw four minimal units out, they get some licks in, they die, I've go the blood tithe points to drop in 10 bloodletters with a gore-drenched icon.

[BDJames]

2 minutes ago, Kazimer said:

A tournament list without daemons is largely using Gore Pilgrims...In fact, even a Daemon heavy list STILL brings Gore pilgrims. Atm, it's a must.

For the rest of your stuff, some Skullreapers are also really good atm, and so are Khorne lords on Juggernauts. Just be warned that the new book is coming out this year, and that may all change.

Yes, I should have mentioned that.  I know the book is coming, but unfortunately, I need to starting building and painting now.  I'll just have to adapt down the road like everyone else.  

I figured Gore Pilgrims would be the building block.  But there does seem to be a lot of flexibility within that structure.