AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[THUNDERHAMMER]

Looking to expand on my models as my shops about to have a sale. Ive got:

MLOK, Stoker, Secrator,Grinder,AspDeathbringer,Priest x2, Karanak, Blood Thirster

20 Reivers 5 Blood Warriors 5 hounds 10 Letters, 3 Bloodcrushers, Korgorath x2 , Both underworld teams

What should I be looking at next? Im still pretty new Id imagine some more bloodletters or blood warriors couldnt be bad

[Reezark_SP]

Hello crazed madmen and bloody daemons!

I started AoS with the Khorne models from the original starter set but I put them on the backburner because I wound up collecting Deepkin, then Tzeench, then Beasts of Chaos instead lol. But now I kind of feel like returning to Khorne and slapped the following list together. How you think it may perform?

 

Counsil of Blood

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (General)
Immense Power
Deathdealer

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury

Karanak

Bloodsecrator

 

BATTLELINE

Flesh Hounds x5

Flesh Hounds x10

Bloodletters x10

 

OTHER

Bloodcrushers x3

Bloodcrushers x3

 

Even a couple of years ago when I allowed myself to get back into WFB in the form of AOS I always thought the coolest battalion was Counsil of Blood. Now that its been updated to allow all the bloodthirsters their printed command ability without having to spend a command point is pretty amazing IMO. Also the changes to Karanak and Flesh Hounds from the December update seem really good! I hope this list takes advantage of these buffs.

My only concern is if the Bloodsecrator is really all that necessary for this list? +1 attacks to everybody within 18" is as always super tasty but do you think I may struggle keeping him in range? Also, I feel like Skarbrand needs to be here. Would dropping Bloodsecrator and the Bloodcrusher units be worth Skarbrand?

[Killax]

10 minutes ago, Reezark_SP said:

Hello crazed madmen and bloody daemons!

Hey, well I like the list above, but I think Karanak might be a little too expensive to include (assumming your using the latest 160 point version of him). Other than that, it's pretty much a great list. I do think that you could indeed skip on the Bloodsecrator and ideally fill slots left with more Fleshhounds. The Bloodcrushers are cool. This way pretty much anything can go anywhere.

Having said that, I still think it isn't an easy to play list, certainly can get into trouble when Bloodthirsters find themselves stuck in tarpits but otherwise is very cool. A Bloodstoker will probably help you more as a Bloodsecrator in this case aswell. To speed up a Bloodthirster.

[Praecautus]

3 hours ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

Looking to expand on my models as my shops about to have a sale. Ive got:

MLOK, Stoker, Secrator,Grinder,AspDeathbringer,Priest x2, Karanak, Blood Thirster

20 Reivers 5 Blood Warriors 5 hounds 10 Letters, 3 Bloodcrushers, Korgorath x2 , Both underworld teams

What should I be looking at next? Im still pretty new Id imagine some more bloodletters or blood warriors couldnt be bad

Good start of models there. You are getting close to a gorepilgrims list with summoned daemons, which is definitely a good starting point, assuming you like that type of army. 

If mortals are your thing then I would consider the start collecting box which contains the blood warriors and a box of skull reapers. You can then add the following

Unit of skull crushers or convert 1 to juggerlord

Third priest

10 blood warriors of your choice - you could build just 5 and use the legs with the skull reaper box to build reapers and wrath mongers. Giving you 2 units of elite infantry.

 

Othet things to consider for morta army

Blood reaver box to give you 40

Skullreapers/wrathmongers

 

Daemon start collecting so you have 20 letters (most you can summon), cannon so you summon a shooter, herald for chain summoning and blood crushers - all are useful

5 more fleshhoundd to get you to 10

10 letters to have a starting unit of 30

 

 

[Agent of Chaos]

I know we already said it however HOW GOOD to see khorne win Cancon 2019?!?!?!?!?!

I watched the final game on the Honest Wargamer's youtube channel yesterday (cant say I'm a fan of that battle report format but thats for another time) which  was against a super shooty Kharadron army with 2 x units of Evocators as allies. Obviously a very surprising tournament decider given neither army is regarded as top tier, or even top of mid-tier.

In the past I often ran a gore pilgrims list with a single bloodthirster and 30 blood letters. In this case he ran gore pilgrims with a second thirster and 10 x Skullreapers however the army plays similar so I was most interested in how he used the 2 thirsters and especially how he used blood tithe. 

In this game the Insensate Rage thirster was sent in for the alpha strike first turn and did a ton of damage to several arkanaught units before getting shot to pieces however it served its purpose of distracting their shooting for a turn while he moved into position (I believe the correct term is "distraction carnifex"). The WoK thirster was used more for surgical strikes and wasnt killed until turn 5. Most interesting was blood tithe which was used 3 times throughout the battle and each time to move a unit in the hero phase, twice in his turn and once in the opponent's turn. This clever use of extra movement allowed him to better position for charges later in the turn, screening the opponent or taking objectives. He won the game fairly convincingly although the KO player made a massive error in not retreating the gunship onto an open objective instead of leaving it combat with the bloodthirster however dont think that was game deciding. Had the KO player won a double turn before turn 4 it also might have been more brutal however you would expect that from a gunline list and certainly takes nothing away from a really well played match by the khorne player who  was pretty much faultless. 

So far I have no idea how he used blood tithe in the other 5 games although the commentators mentioned at one point that he hadnt done much summoning all tournament. Essentially the game is about objectives meaning movement is key so I'm not surprised that the top player(s) would use it in this way. I guess what remains disappointing for me in relation to blood tithe is that you would almost certainly get as many if not more hero phase movements from the Grand Alliance Destruction allegiance ability in a 5 turn game then the 3 managed by the world's best khorne player in a tournament final.  I guess what blood tithe offers is flexibility in terms of what benefit you get from the allegiance ability however given several other armies get special abilities as well as the ability to summon I still find it an extremely lacking allegiance ability, especially for a battletome army. 

 

[Retro]

10 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

 I guess what blood tithe offers is flexibility in terms of what benefit you get from the allegiance ability however given several other armies get special abilities as well as the ability to summon I still find it an extremely lacking allegiance ability, especially for a battletome army. 

 

Personally I think that if they changed it so we don't lose unspent bloodtithes and remove the 8 maximum it would go a long way to improving our allegiance ability.

[Agent of Chaos]

@Retro 100% agree. Even with the 8 cap, just being able to bank unspent tithe would give us so much more flexibility and allow for both summoning and an ability in the same turn. We live in hope I guess...

 

[Retro]

8 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Retro 100% agree. Even with the 8 cap, just being able to bank unspent tithe would give us so much more flexibility and allow for both summoning and an ability in the same turn. We live in hope I guess...

 

True, I just feel like we're the only ones with a cap to our points. (Even if it is a fluffy 8 )

edit because of accidental smiley and now I can't seem to delete it...😎

Edited January 29, 2019 by Retro

[Agent of Chaos]

@Retro its true, we are the only summoning army both with a cap and unable to bank unspent points and it really sucks. However I do feel that without a cap it might become a little OP, given the nature of the game is to kill things we are always going to generate blood tithe whereas some other summoning armies have slightly harder conditions to meet in order to generate points. 

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has run the Exalted Bloodthirster and thereby increased their cap limit to 16 to see how that played out. 

[Retro]

1 minute ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Retro its true, we are the only summoning army both with a cap and unable to bank unspent points and it really sucks. However I do feel that without a cap it might become a little OP, given the nature of the game is to kill things we are always going to generate blood tithe whereas some other summoning armies have slightly harder conditions to meet in order to generate points. 

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has run the Exalted Bloodthirster and thereby increased their cap limit to 16 to see how that played out. 

That's a good point, and to be honest I probably wouldn't reach 8 often if I had the flexibility to spend them without worrying about losing the excess.

[Agent of Chaos]

I would never get to to 8! Would either be using 2 for an auto unbind or 3 for a hero phase movement, then using whatever left over points to summon a bloodmaster, 5 x blood letters or 5 x flesh hounds (you know, just like every other army with summoning in addition to allegiance abilities). 

It would have to be a straight bloodbath for a couple of turns in order for me to generate 8 without spending any. 

All that being said, now that Khorne has won Cancon GW may very well decide that no changes are needed or even that more debuffs are needed.

Or the cycle of model sales will continue and Khorne will get buffed so people start buying blood letters again. 

[Killax]

On the subject of Blood Tithe points, I really never save up to 7 or 8, and then when it randomly/rarely happens you use it for the best options possible. But that still is a rare occurance because to me that stuff only really ever happens in A) Multiplayer games or B) Games that are very lopsided, so either we get obliterated or somehow an opponent allowed us to fully eat to multiple small units.

I believe that the best uses for Blood Tithes still are found in the following:
- Bloody Examplar, still depends on the list offcourse but with WoK Bloodthirsters and sufficient Daemon units this still can be scary
- Spell Eater Curse, it's one of the few tools we have that can still be great versus LoN and Tzeentch
- Murderlust/Apoplectic Frenzy
- Summon 5 Fleshhounds, 10 Bloodletters, 20 Bloodletters
- Lastly offcourse when it happens you can use the 7/8 effects, I just wouldn't save up for it, too much goodness is gained from spending it early, too much is lost when trying to save up

Perhaps in new books/futures it will work out a bit differently. We'll have to wait and see. What I want as soon as possible is have acces to Fleshhound boxes  Ideally a seperate Karanak too. The old Fleshhounds are still cool to use for summonning, keeps it clear what's part of the army initially and what's not. 

Cheers,

[Retro]

18 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

All that being said, now that Khorne has won Cancon GW may very well decide that no changes are needed or even that more debuffs are needed.

I really hope that's not the case, I think the win was more about his abilities as a general as opposed to the power of the list.

From what I can see on the CanCon on leaderboard the second highest khorne player placed 51st

Edited January 30, 2019 by Retro
Damn autocorrect

[Galdenistal]

I don't think Khorne needs nerfs (although as a Khorne player I would say that !!), but repricing the other battalions so we aren't reliant on Gore Pilgrims as a crutch would be a good starting point. Having 800 points of most lists already decided for you gets a bit tedious.

Some of the Daemon battalions are nicer now that Bloodcrushers aren't as rubbish as they used to be, I'll need to go back and look over those for some new ideas.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Galdenistal
Typo

[Forrix]

I think part of the issue with Khorne is the internal balance is off. The Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with Gyrstrike and Gore Pilgrims are both quite good but take them away and Khorne's competiveness drops off A LOT.

[sambaker31]

Hi all,

New Khorne player here (although have played quite a bit of AOS with other armies) - currently building my first army and mostly doing theoryhammer until I get enough models on the board to have some battles. This thread has already been super useful so thank you all! 😁

Anyway, on to my question - I've just bought a bloodthirster so I'm trying to work out which configuration to build it as - I'm torn between Wrath and Rage, and have seen some conflicting advice on which is better/more useful. I like the command ability on the WoK, the dispell and the ranged threat and also the solid number of attacks, but the Rage seems like it could do more damage and is much more khorney (massive axe anyone?), I'm just worried about the lack of attacks and degrading nature after suffering wounds.

I see above someone mentioned gyrstrike on an IR bloodthirster - does anyone have any experience combining this with the Devastating Blow command trait? Would be something like 4 attacks, 3+ to hit (rerolling 1's), 2+ (1+?) to wound with 5's and 6's causing both outrageous carnage and also all normal damage (d6) as mortal wounds - even with 4 attacks that is an insane amount of potential mortal wound output! Has anyone tried this combo before? Or maybe can see why it might not work/be very effective? Is there anything in the rules to say these would cancel each other out or anything like that?

I'd be running whichever BT as part of my pretty standard deamon army - 50 bloodletters, a DP, secrator, 2 units of bloodcrushers, 2 skull cannons, 2 bloodletters (basically 2 and a bit start collecting boxes for now) so does anyone have any advice on which thirster might work best for a fairly standard set up?

Edited January 30, 2019 by sambaker31

[Agent of Chaos]

10 hours ago, Retro said:

I really hope that's not the case, I think the win was more about his abilities as a general as opposed to the power of the list.

From what I can see on the CanCon on leaderboard the second highest khorne player placed 51st

Now that is a really interesting stat!

Last night I watched the new AOS Coach youtube show where Matt Campbell was interviewed and ran through each of his 6 games.

There were 2 or 3 games where Matt admitted to feeling he was going to lose and fully admitted he had some good priority rolls and was well versed at objective play compared to some of his opponents. 

So yeah, Khorne definitely does not need nerfing in any way shape or form with a buff to the allegiance ability being the most needed change.  Especially once GW get around to making all mortal wound abilities go off on unmodified 6 (an effective debuff to skullreapers among others) which we pretty much know will happen eventually. 

[Agent of Chaos]

@sambaker31 seen a lot of ppl recommend magnetising your bloodthirster so you can try the different options at will.

Also, unless your local meta is super strict on not using proxies etc, just build him whichever way you think looks best and use him as whichever thirster you want each game. Just be sure to explain to your opponent that he counts as X and there shouldnt be any issues.

Or buy 2! 😉

[sambaker31]

7 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@sambaker31 seen a lot of ppl recommend magnetising your bloodthirster so you can try the different options at will.

Also, unless your local meta is super strict on not using proxies etc, just build him whichever way you think looks best and use him as whichever thirster you want each game. Just be sure to explain to your opponent that he counts as X and there shouldnt be any issues.

Or buy 2! 😉

Yeah I may look into that further to give me a bit of flexibility! It would make it easier to transport as well haha

[mastercrafted]

I've been trying all sorts of lists lately, and struggling to come up with an effective one. My latest is below: 

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (260)

- General
- Command Trait : Slaughterborn 
- Artefact : Mark of the slayer 
Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut (140)
- Artefact : The Blade of Endless Bloodshed 
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh
Bloodsecrator (140)
UNITS
15 x Blood Warriors (300)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1 x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
BEHEMOTHS
Soul Grinder (260)
BATTALIONS

Gore pilgrims (200)

I've been going for bronzed flesh, just to stop my stuff getting swept off the board without doing much. Still feel the list lacks punch in combat - only the thirster and maybe the soul grinder can go in and deck something. Thinking of swapping some of the units for 30 Bloodletters or maybe 6 Bloodcrushers. Any thoughts anyone? 

[Retro]

11 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Last night I watched the new AOS Coach youtube show where Matt Campbell was interviewed and ran through each of his 6 games.

Have you got a link to that? Wouldn't mind watching it myself.

[Agent of Chaos]

@Retro dont have a link but if you search "AOS coach" on YouTube it will come up

 

[Forrix]

@sambaker31 A guys won a local tournament in my area with the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with Gyrstrike and devastating blow. The BoIR with Gyrstrike has become a pretty standard item in Khorne tourney lists. He's 260 points plus an artifact (and you'll probably be running Gore Pilgrims so you'll have an extra) and he can destroy entire armies  if left unchecked. Granted, he's fairly easy to kill but your opponent absolutely has to deal with him.

[sambaker31]

3 minutes ago, Forrix said:

@sambaker31 A guys won a local tournament in my area with the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with Gyrstrike and devastating blow. The BoIR with Gyrstrike has become a pretty standard item in Khorne tourney lists. He's 260 points plus an artifact (and you'll probably be running Gore Pilgrims so you'll have an extra) and he can destroy entire armies  if left unchecked. Granted, he's fairly easy to kill but your opponent absolutely has to deal with him.

Thanks for the reply - I figured I might be late to the party on the combination of the two, certainly has a crazy potential output!

[Zamik]

3 hours ago, mastercrafted said:

I've been going for bronzed flesh, just to stop my stuff getting swept off the board without doing much. Still feel the list lacks punch in combat - only the thirster and maybe the soul grinder can go in and deck something. Thinking of swapping some of the units for 30 Bloodletters or maybe 6 Bloodcrushers. Any thoughts anyone? 

Have you looked into Skullreapers? I put a unit of 5 of them with Daemon weapons in a recent 1000-pt game with my friend's Nighthaunt, and they wiped out a unit of Dreadscythe Harridans AND the Black Coach. They're absolute monsters. My friend hates them! It's great!

Edited January 31, 2019 by Zamik