AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Roark]

11 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Also the blood Throne needs something too! How come a THRONE has no command ability! Meanwhile an 80pt mortal can give his buddies +1 Attack.

Yeah, the Bloodletter heroes are quite bland and uninteresting in general just based on the warscrolls, unfortunately...

8 hours ago, andysonic1 said:

I'm debating taking two units I've never used before: a Mighty Lord of Khorne and a Slaughterbrute. Anyone have any playtime with these two?

I play a Mighty Lord semi-regularly. I think he's great value, despite his slowness. Offensively, it's all about the Reality-Splitting Axe's ability. No one wants their big expensive chars and monsters sent to Khorne's realm, which means they'll often not engage the first wave of troops that the Mighty Lord is lurking behind.

So you can control the battlefield somewhat OR you get a decent chance at one-shotting expensive minis.

Unbinding is obviously useful.

I'm often quite greedy/risky and give him Mark of the Destroyer. Not sure if I'd do that in a tournament though...

[mangaramb]

On 11/8/2018 at 1:33 AM, andysonic1 said:

Khorgoraths have the monster keyword and aren't mortals but do a ton of damage, Bloodletters aren't mortals and require you build around them potentially doing a ton of damage, and Blood Reavers' are similar to Bloodletters in that they need outside help to reach scary levels. You could argue that you're already bringing the outside help for all of the above to work, but if your focus is on summoning instead of buffing than Blood Warriors become very appealing as a "plug'n'play" unit.

Some math:

10 Blood Warriors (200 points) with Glaive on champ and Bloodsecrator buff do 6.87 wounds to 4+save unit

10 Bloodletters (120 points) with Bloodsecrator buff do 6.6 wounds (3,5 of them mortal) to 4+save unit

So that is 200 points vs 120 and same damage. If you add some more buffs to Bloodletters (+1hit from Slaughterpries or 20+models), which should be easy even in all Mortal army, then Bloodletters outperform all other units offensive wise many times.

I had some games won by just summoning 20Bloodletters at a good time and succeeding the charge. That unit does 20 wounds on average with Bloodsecrator buff to 4+ save unit.

[Bjornas]

How do you guys handle Nighthaunt? I've been pretty mauled by my friend over the last games, especially the bladegheist revenants are really hard to knock out. They're damn fast too, especially with Cogs.

[andysonic1]

8 hours ago, mangaramb said:

I had some games won by just summoning 20Bloodletters at a good time and succeeding the charge. That unit does 20 wounds on average with Bloodsecrator buff to 4+ save unit.

I can't argue with your math, however I would take Blood Warriors on the board over Bloodletters to start with. I agree summoning Bloodletters on mass is pretty great.

[phizzco]

8 hours ago, mangaramb said:

Some math:

10 Blood Warriors (200 points) with Glaive on champ and Bloodsecrator buff do 6.87 wounds to 4+save unit

10 Bloodletters (120 points) with Bloodsecrator buff do 6.6 wounds (3,5 of them mortal) to 4+save unit

So that is 200 points vs 120 and same damage. If you add some more buffs to Bloodletters (+1hit from Slaughterpries or 20+models), which should be easy even in all Mortal army, then Bloodletters outperform all other units offensive wise many times.

I had some games won by just summoning 20Bloodletters at a good time and succeeding the charge. That unit does 20 wounds on average with Bloodsecrator buff to 4+ save unit.

Bloodwarriors are a tarpit in many cases. If you're only thinking about damage output and not about holding enemy units in place for a hammer then I think you're missing most of their point of their value. Blood letters will explode when another unit gets to them.

[andysonic1]

21 hours ago, Zamik said:

I've had a rollicking good time with the Mighty Lord as a hero-hunter, especially with the command trait Slaughterborn (to reroll hits) and the Heart Seeker artefact (to reroll wounds).  One game I managed to trigger the reality-splitting axe against both a Lord Executioner and a Knight of Shrouds! The built-in unbind is decent enough too in that it can keep a magic user from completely running roughshod over the boys.

I was actually thinking about using Hungry for Glory to reroll 1s against monsters and heroes, and then using the artifact that gives +1 to hit and wound rolls. 2s and 2s rerolling 1s against things you want your lord to be fighting anyways, seems like you'll constantly be forcing saves.

[Somanlius]

2 hours ago, Bjornas said:

How do you guys handle Nighthaunt? I've been pretty mauled by my friend over the last games, especially the bladegheist revenants are really hard to knock out. They're damn fast too, especially with Cogs.

What I do is run Gore Pilgrims with 2-3 Slaughterpriests and use Blood Bind on units to pull them out of range of their buffs. A lone unit with no 6+ ward save, no +1 to wound rolls, and no rerolling 1s for hits become pretty vulnerable. If you pull them out of wholly within 12" of a hero with one priest you can then use Blood Boil for mortal wounds. And the ignore rend is pretty useless against large units of buffed Blood Warriors who don't have rend anyway.

[Kazimer]

12 hours ago, mangaramb said:

Some math:

10 Blood Warriors (200 points) with Glaive on champ and Bloodsecrator buff do 6.87 wounds to 4+save unit

10 Bloodletters (120 points) with Bloodsecrator buff do 6.6 wounds (3,5 of them mortal) to 4+save unit

So that is 200 points vs 120 and same damage. If you add some more buffs to Bloodletters (+1hit from Slaughterpries or 20+models), which should be easy even in all Mortal army, then Bloodletters outperform all other units offensive wise many times.

I had some games won by just summoning 20Bloodletters at a good time and succeeding the charge. That unit does 20 wounds on average with Bloodsecrator buff to 4+ save unit.

This is all good math offensively, but the Warriors still have a few major ups compared to Letters. A 4+ save is still far better than a 5+, and they can take more punishment before losing their damage output due to 2 wounds a model.

[Fireymonkeyboy]

 

Anyone have thoughts or tips on Skirmish?  Got a tournament coming up.  Thinking about going elite heavy, bringing a Khorgie, etc., but numbers seem to matter.  

FMB

[phizzco]

1 hour ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

 

Anyone have thoughts or tips on Skirmish?  Got a tournament coming up.  Thinking about going elite heavy, bringing a Khorgie, etc., but numbers seem to matter.  

FMB

I dont know anyone that plays that or firestorm currently.

[Retro]

11 hours ago, Kazimer said:

This is all good math offensively, but the Warriors still have a few major ups compared to Letters. A 4+ save is still far better than a 5+, and they can take more punishment before losing their damage output due to 2 wounds a model.

More maths!

Without rend, 100 points of blood warriors will take 20 wounds to move, 120 points of bloodletters only take 15 wounds.

Personally I've never had much success with blood warriors on the offensive, they just get bogged down. They don't scale well with our usual buffs, +1 hit is a 25% buff and +1 attack is a 50% buff. Bloodletters on the other hand get 100% more mortal wounds from +1 hit or +1 attack.

Where they have come in handy for me  has been when I sit them on an objective or fling them at an enemy elite to hold them up for a couple of turns. Plus they are battle line and are a prerequisite in a lot of battalions.

I normally take them in a unit of 10 but sometimes 5 if I'm tight on points.

[Bjornas]

1 hour ago, Retro said:

More maths!

Without rend, 100 points of blood warriors will take 20 wounds to move, 120 points of bloodletters only take 15 wounds.

Personally I've never had much success with blood warriors on the offensive, they just get bogged down. They don't scale well with our usual buffs, +1 hit is a 25% buff and +1 attack is a 50% buff. Bloodletters on the other hand get 100% more mortal wounds from +1 hit or +1 attack.

Where they have come in handy for me  has been when I sit them on an objective or fling them at an enemy elite to hold them up for a couple of turns. Plus they are battle line and are a prerequisite in a lot of battalions.

I normally take them in a unit of 10 but sometimes 5 if I'm tight on points.

Also don't forget that they get to pile in and attack before they die.  I've found this makes them a priority for the opponent sometimes as he doesn't want them to strike twice in a turn (once on their own, again when removed). But yes, keep them in the backfield inside the Bloodsecrator bubble, you want them with atleast one extra attack.

[Xasz]

28 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

Also don't forget that they get to pile in and attack before they die.

That's actually their whole point.

They are really good against other medium or light infantry and especially against other melee-focused armies. If the meta would revolve more around those, they would probably have a place in the top competitive lists.

As it stands, the meta seems to revolve around lists with high mortal wound or general damage output and ones which focus heavily on objectives with hard to remove units. Both of these do not really favour Blood Warriors, no matter on which end of the table they are placed.

[W33daxe]

Hi.
So,  today a couple of friends and I played my Gore Pilgrims army,  against my Blight Cyst army in Battle for the pass. 
Mighty Lord of Khorne(Slaughterborn, Mark of the Destroyer), 3x Slaughterpriests, Bloodsecrator(Brazen Rune), Bloodstoker,  2*20 Bloodreavers, 10 Bloodwarriors, 6 Mighty Skullcrushers, 5 Wrathmongers, Chaos Warshrine, Garrek´s Reavers and Gore Pilgrims = 2000pts. 
Versus:
The Nurgle: Festus, Sorcerer, Harbinger, Bloab, Lord of Blights, 30 Blightkings with Blight Cyst=2000pts.
Nurgle got first turn and sat on the two middle objectives.
The Khorne side did very well in shutting down magic, between all the unbinds and Loathsome Sorcery, Nurgle didn´t really get off all the important spells, and with Brazen Rune, Plague Squall didn´t even hurt the Bloodsecrator. Blood Bind taunted 10 Blightkings off an objective and away from Harbinger, and did a lot of damage with Blood Boil.6 Mighty Skullcrusher devastated the 5 Blightkings on a middle objective in one turn, being fully buffed with Favour of Khorne, Whipped to Fury, Killing Frenzy, Gorelord, and Bronzed Flesh.  The 10 Blood Warriors made it all the way through the Blightkings to the command and managed to engage all Nurgle leaders in a combat phase, with 5 Bloodtithe ready to Apoplectic Frenzy them for a lot of attacks. But they killed none of the leaders, and Festus actually managed to heal up himself and the Sorcerer to full health.
By turn 4 we were tied for points but the gas was out of Khorne and Nurgle was only getting stronger it seemed  and the spells were getting easier to cast. We called it a game when Nurgle realized that they could summon a Great Unclean One, we did however speedroll some spell dice and charge to see how things could go and Khorne were wiped out except for the Bloodsecrator and whatever I would have summoned. 
I have almost exclusively played Khorne since before the first Generals Handbook, trying out different itterations of the army, with Skullreapers, Daemon Princes, Chaos Knights, Marauder Horsemen and so forth. 
I think like most of you, from what I can tell, I feel like the Khorne is a bit challenged. I´m not looking for a completely balanced game, and I don´t really have an issue with the direction GW is taking the game. Especially knowing that new models, and who knows what else is on the way. 
But I still open up Azyr every day hoping to find some diamond in the rough that will make my army feel strong again.
 I think I came to the conclusion that my list was not even close to being the best melee  army when I met Daughters of Khaine for the first time, and far from durable enough when I fought Stormcast/Nurgle/Fyreslayers.
That being said, I have played 6-7 games versus Ironjaws and never had a hard match, all solid wins, even when Mighy Lord became a Chaos Spawn on turn 2, so I think that as long as the Secrator and Priests are safe the army is actually not bad in a casual theater, but spreading out and having my units fight unsupported makes them seem so overcosted.
So, yeah, I finally reached the point where I had to create a TGA profile to vent my frustration, and I´ve even been so positive for the last 3 years.

Long story short: I started out with Khorne, lost faith, began Nurgle and Sacrosanct, but keeps coming back to Khorne. I have Archaon and hope to someday do a Nurgle/Khorne list, but it´s not looking good.

 

[Xasz]

48 minutes ago, W33daxe said:

Long story short: I started out with Khorne, lost faith, began Nurgle and Sacrosanct, but keeps coming back to Khorne. I have Archaon and hope to someday do a Nurgle/Khorne list, but it´s not looking good.

There are Archaon-Slingshot lists.

Something like Archaon, GUO, Bloodstoker and Juggerlord in a Nurgle list. Throw some battlelines and maybe Cogs into the mix and you are done.

[chord]

20 hours ago, phizzco said:

I dont know anyone that plays that or firestorm currently.

We're running a skirmish league in my area, its doing great!

[Fireymonkeyboy]

46 minutes ago, chord said:

We're running a skirmish league in my area, its doing great!

Any tips on must-have for Khorne in Skirmish?  I'm thinking anything with a bubble would be good, so looking at Bloodsecrator and Asp. Champ.  Priests would be good as well, as ranged mortal wounds are always handy.

 

[phizzco]

4 hours ago, W33daxe said:

 

Long story short: I started out with Khorne, lost faith, began Nurgle and Sacrosanct, but keeps coming back to Khorne. I have Archaon and hope to someday do a Nurgle/Khorne list, but it´s not looking good.

 

so when you think back about the match, do you think there are things that you could have done, tactically that could have worked out better for you, or do you feel like you made all the right choices? Even then, the dice can get in the way. That is the nature of the game.

[W33daxe]

6 hours ago, phizzco said:

so when you think back about the match, do you think there are things that you could have done, tactically that could have worked out better for you, or do you feel like you made all the right choices? Even then, the dice can get in the way. That is the nature of the game.

Yes, for sure. I underestimated the damage output of almost all my units except for the 6 M Skullcrushers. Nurgle had some easy ways to get -1 to hit and re-roll hits of 6 which really hampered my rolls even whilst buffed. It was also way too easy for them to take turn 1 with 3 drops, and move really fast up to hold objectives, and I missed what my 10 Chaos Knights previously gave me, a pretty sure way to remove tarpits on the charge. I think the Bloodreavers took up too much space on my board considering they didn´t really kill anything, and in this game there was no reason to screen, also Blightkings will tear through the Reavers no problem.  So considering tactics and list makning I could have played better, no doubt. My issue was that the things that I used to do really well, reroll everything, make tons of attack and shut down magic whilst  are pretty easily negated in the match ups I´ve had over the last year. I might try out more Skullreapers and Skullcrushers, or the said Slingshotting of Archaon.
 

[mangaramb]

22 hours ago, W33daxe said:

Long story short: I started out with Khorne, lost faith, began Nurgle and Sacrosanct, but keeps coming back to Khorne. I have Archaon and hope to someday do a Nurgle/Khorne list, but it´s not looking good.

 

I think your list is too defensive, except for Skullcrushers there are no good hitting units. Khorne is all about offense, you want to be with almost all of your units in melee range asap. Get at least a few units of Bloodletters, Skullcrushers or Khorgoraths. Also always go for MSU, and use Khorne Allengiance for summoning more Bloodletters.

[Agent of Chaos]

@Fireymonkeyboy 

Check out "Rerolling Ones" on you tube.

They have recently filmed a few battle reports in a skirmish campaign and it looks really good! 

Its Undead vs Stormcast so you can get an idea of an elite warband vs a horde type.

The Undead player wrecks face although I felt the Stormcast player was generally poor with their tactics and choices. 

I've never considered Skirmish until I saw those videos and now am very interested! 

[Revan123]

I tried Vorgaroth recently (of course, it was just a piece of paper, but still) against Nighthaunts. I took 3 priests with bronzed flesh and one killing frenzy, all in gore piligrim batallion (it was 2010 points, but still). 

Well, he took out most of the army, only 7 models left on board before he was bringed down. If they didn't have their unmodified save, I would kill a lot more. We played without objectives, in that case I would probably lost. 

It was really fun, bronzed flesh gave him a good protection, but the lack of ingoring mortal wounds is making him really vulnarable

[Fireymonkeyboy]

14 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Fireymonkeyboy 

Check out "Rerolling Ones" on you tube.

Thanks for the tip, I will definitely check this out!

[Bjornas]

I'm not a very experienced player, I've played a lot of 1k battles but am just starting to play 2k battles with my army (slow painter/collector). I run the Skulltake batallion, so I'm stuck with the 18" Bloodsecrator bubble (I stick the Asp Deathbringer to units I need to move). The Gore Pilgrims seems like the go-to competitive batallion, and probably allows for more offense, but I just don't like it fluffwise. Even though they're good units, I find the idea of priests, prayers and temples very un-Khorney, regardless of the AoS fluff. 

I've started to find that my army works best as a counter-charge army rather than a pure offense army. Most of the games I tend to get the first round, so I just set up in order to give my opponent a long charge range (increase his chances of failing) and to activate as many units as possible if he reaches me. This then means I can handle more of his army in a piecemeal manner, and start being more offensive with objectives etc in turn 2-3. I've found this to be a pretty good approach for armies who don't run Gore Pilgrims. Or rather, I've found running off with individual unprotected units to be suicide, hehe.

 

[chord]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:44 PM, Fireymonkeyboy said:

Any tips on must-have for Khorne in Skirmish?  I'm thinking anything with a bubble would be good, so looking at Bloodsecrator and Asp. Champ.  Priests would be good as well, as ranged mortal wounds are always handy.

 

Mortal wounds in skirmish are key!  I vote for a priest.  Movement is also very important in skirmish if you can out-maneuver your opponent you get an advantage