AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Grimrock]

15 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

8 attacks with no rend, 1 dmg is a joke. No longer fights first or +1 to hit on the charge. Went up to 10 wounds yet no monster keyword and now can't benefit from cover or look out sir (6+ ward is OK but doesnt make up for this). No command abilities, just a heroic action (which is used at the expense of any other heroic action you might need) for a minor buff. Only the Nurgle one has a meaningful role against some hard to shift opponents (Gottrek, Fire Slayers and, ironically, Maggotkin of Nurgle being the main ones).

We dont yet know what the God Marks or sub factions will do however as it stands the new daemon prince can't fight and doesnt buff the units around them so there is no role for them in a god marked army and seems doubtful they will even have a role in their own faction. 

Just to be sure it's clear, the talons are 2 damage not 1. The linked image is a bit blurry so it's hard to tell, but if you google for a high res version of the leak it's definitely 2 damage. With that being said it's still way too early to be making a call on how well he'll do in S2D itself. 8 attacks at a 3+/3+/-/2 is a profile that's just begging for a good artifact to take it over the top. Look at the lord on Karkadrak, he has 5 attacks at the same profile and when when he had access to the -3 rend artifact he was an absolute rockstar. Add in a good trait and keep similar buffs for the marks and the double claw prince could absolutely be top tier. Or maybe he drops to 150 points and becomes the gold star in bargain bin heroes.

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Grimrock

[Lord Krungharr]

I really have no idea what will be done for Blades in the next book.  I like the anti-magic theme, but without martial prowess, it means very little. 

Perhaps to reflect that, and their propensity of spreading rage and bloodthirstyness, they could somehow prevent enemies from retreating, parry enemy blows, add an attack upon charging, attack first.....all perhaps in their own set of army-wide Command Abilities (or even Blood Tithe usages? if the points don't go away after just one thing is chosen).  All of that would ease the burden of most daemons and mortals not being super rendy or high damage?  Just better at chopping away in general?  And of course still negating spells, making them just plain not-successfully-cast (as opposed to successfully unbound, cuz ****** you Teclis!)

[Agent of Chaos]

Whats everyone's thoughts on the latest GHB changes?

On one hand it will be nice for units like Blood Warriors and Blood Letters to fight in 2 ranks with the option of counting as 3 models on objectives (or to instead have them doing extra damage to enemy battleline).

On the other hand there is no point fighting in 2 ranks, counting as 3 models on objectives or doing extra damage if you're dead so I dont think the new rules really fix their inherent issues. 10 Blood Warriors fighting and doing no damage is the same as 5 blood warriors fighing for no damage. The game is also incentivising players to run larger units which does not combo well with blood tithe.

Overall I think it will be another tough season for Khorne. 

[Grimrock]

Yeah the main thing I'm kind of excited for is 2 damage bloodletters that can fight in two ranks, but they're still squishy and slow. They can do some pretty significant damage so I'd like to take a shot at least. I agree though overall it feels like a tough spot. If the bounty hunter battalion isn't limited to battleline then skullreapers or wrathmongers couple be pretty scary, but I think that's pretty unlikely. 

On the plus side this definitely hurts the ranged meta. Most of the good shooters will now die significantly faster and have very few benefits to compensate. If the meta skews away from shooting and hero sniping in general then there's a chance for Khorne to at least climb back up closer to those mid range win rates. Extremely unlikely we'll be winning lots of events but every little bit helps. 

Edit: nevermind, looks like the bounty hunters battalion leaked on the AoS subreddit. You can only have one battalion, but no requirements for the members to be veterans. Wrathmongers are seeming pretty tasty as they usually wanted to go into infantry anyway. Leaning hard into Skullcrushers or Bloodcrushers also seems like a good idea as they can be battleline without risking getting hit by the opponent's bounty hunters.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Grimrock

[Agent of Chaos]

[Agent of Chaos]

Every little bit helps. At 150pts now it seems worthwhile throwing a priest and skulls into every list, especially since the bloodsecrator can summon the skulls from the altar while the priest does a buff prayer. 

120 for Riptooth & Magores Fiends seems good if you want some cheap bloodtithe. Skullcrushers, Skullreapers and Wrathmongers are all good options for Bounty Hunters, maybe some allied chaos knights too. Not sure if this redeems Bloodcrushers but at 130 they are one of the cheapests non veteran options for the extra dmg and not copping it in return.

Anyone else seeing anything of note in the point drops? 

[Troll.exe]

One of my main issues in the past been has been, once Skarbrand and your skullreapers are down, there’s nothing really left that does any damage with save stacking. Seems like Bloodletters are an auto include for me now. Probably 2 or 3x20. 20 two ranks deep with a bloodsecrator will do work and if you lose some key threats you can throw some CPs at them to really kick it up a level.

Khorne is definitely still in trouble moving forward but having punchy battleline instead of just screens is a bit of a buff.

Off the top of my head I’ll be running something like this

Skarbrand

slaughtpriestx2

bloodsecrectorx2

daemon prince

3x20 bloodletters

5 fleshhounds

5wrathmongers

skulls

[AresX8]

As of today with the latest Battlescroll update, Blood Tithe no longer resets! Rejoice!

See: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/22/a-big-balance-update-hits-the-mortal-realms-as-war-comes-to-gallet/

[Grimrock]

It is nice to see they're finally adding something on that should have been there from the start back in first edition. Don't know if it'll much of an impact, but it should certainly feel nicer. I'm imagining simple stuff like you might grab a command point if you don't have anything better to do at the start of a turn or maybe it'll be more likely you end up the big summons. One potentially interesting point though, based on the wording I think most of the table is limited to a single use at the start of the hero phase but as far as I can tell there's no limit to the number of times you can use the spelleater curse. Might be worth banking as many points as you can and just totally shutting down some of the more obnoxious spellcasters on a clutch turn.

Edit: 
Decided to try writing up a list. It feels awkward due to needing to take the lord of khorne on juggernaut as the general to avoid taking too many gelato veterans, but I think this is where I'd start:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
- Grand Strategy: None Chosen
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut (140)*
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Bloodsecrator (125)***
Bloodstoker (85)***
Slaughterpriest (110)*
- Bronzed Flesh
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (310)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (170)*
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (170)***
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (170)***
- Bloodglaives
30 x Bloodletters (345)**
- Reinforced x 2

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (145)**
5 x Wrathmongers (145)**

Endless Spells & Invocations
Hexgorger Skulls (60)
Wrath-Axe (85)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Bounty Hunters
***Battle Regiment

Total: 2060 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143
Drops: 8

Points come out to 1990 after all the reductions, which is decent but as usual the drops weren't significant enough to actually do anything useful even though the vast majority of units in this list got cheaper. Amounted to adding in a wrath axe that can only be cast if someone is garrisoning the altar. I'd lean hardest to remove the bloodthirster but I'm not sure what else would work for those points. Being able to re-roll hits on the bloodletters helps ensure you're getting optimal damage and he can do some good work himself. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Grimrock

[Agent of Chaos]

"It is nice to see they're finally adding something on that should have been there from the start back in first edition." @Grimrock farking amen brother!!!

Something I noticed about Spelleater Curse. It says the spell is not successfully cast, as opposed to the spell being auto unbound. That would mean abilities that trigger on a spell being cast (such as fate points or the +1 save on phoenixs) would not proc. I think this is a change on the previous wording but could be wrong. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Agent of Chaos

[Agent of Chaos]

@Grimrock it does suck having to take juggerlord at all, let alone as general, but totally understand the reasoning to avoid too many gally vets. 

However I beleive you need 2 priests in order to take 2 judgements.

[Grimrock]

37 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Grimrock it does suck having to take juggerlord at all, let alone as general, but totally understand the reasoning to avoid too many gally vets. 

However I beleive you need 2 priests in order to take 2 judgements.

You're right, didn't consider you can only take one per priest. Man that makes the skull altar 'buff' even worse. You have to take the priests to get the judgement in the first place, why would you chant it with another hero? I guess maybe on the off chance one of them dies but still. Lame. 

Ok yeah in that case drop the axe and I don't know... Maybe plug in a unit of bloodreavers that sits on the back line to hold objectives? Feels bad but might help in some scenarios. More likely to just give up battle tactics though. 

Also I noticed that wording for the skulls when I was looking at my book earlier so I don't think it has changed. Super handy though, I didn't realize it but it also gets around Teclis and his can't be unbound rule. Possibly the spell in a bottle as well.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Grimrock

[AresX8]

You chant the Judgment with another Hero (say, the Bloodsecrator as his auras now increase in size while garrisoned) so the Slaughterpriest can do a Blood Blessing, a generic prayer (ie Blessed), or a Warscroll prayer. 

[Thrax]

Hello everyone! Time has come to spend some money on beautiful models. I ask your opinion about this list I thought (and partially already bought / painted) to know if I will be ridiculously weak facing other armies and I not making a mistake making this purchases. I am not planning to be winning tournament, but I want to have opportunities to be clever and win at least some matches here and there.

The theme of the army is: "The hunt of Khorne" (Dogs, horses, monsters!)

 

 

Allegiance: Khorne

Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Grand Strategy: Pillars of Belief

Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

 

LEADERS

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280)
General - Command Trait: Mage Eater
Artefact: Skullshard Mantle

Bloodsecrator (125) (already painted)

Slaughterpriest (100) (already painted)
Prayer: Blood Sacrifice

Bloodstoker (80) (already painted)

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
Axe
Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225) (already painted)
Mark of Chaos: Khorne

UNITS

10 x Bloodreavers (80) (already painted)
Reaver Blades

5 x Flesh Hounds (105)

5 x Flesh Hounds (105)

5 x Flesh Hounds (105)

5 x Chaos Knights (170) (already painted)
Cursed Lance
Mark of Chaos: Khorne

5 x Chaos Knights (170)
Cursed Lance
Mark of Chaos: Khorne

BEHEMOTHS

Chaos Warshrine (215) (already bought)
Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Prayer: Killing Frenzy

TOTAL: 1970/2000 WOUNDS: 129

 

For the strategy: Priests and Chaos lord and Bloodstocker buff knights tagged hunters to kill enemy lines across battlefield, I dont know if cursed lances or enchanted weapons are better.
Bloodthister and demon prince hunt for enemy threat, almost immune to magics with his artefact, (like Ironclad, or Mawcrusha)
Hounds tag objectives, 
Blood reavers are here to generate blood tithe,
Too bad I cannot fit in the hexgorgers skulls.

 

What do you guys think about this? Any advice and tip is much appreciated, I am a new player.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Thrax
Forgot something

[Julesborgi]

Do we still have the cap of max 8 blood tithe Points?

[Grimrock]

On 6/27/2022 at 6:16 AM, Thrax said:

*snip*

I like how the list looks overall. My biggest concern is the Lord on karkadrak since he really struggles to put out damage, but he is awful tanky and you've already got him anyways so not a big deal. The only other major tweak I'd suggest would be to try the wrath of khorne bloodthirster instead of the insensate. He loses out on a little potential damage, but he's much much less swingy than the insensate and synergizes with the command trait better. He also has a potentially devastating unleash hell if you're willing to gamble.

The tactics sound good overall as well. The Knights should be good hammers and are pretty quick if you use the stoker on them. I like lances over ensorcelled weapons in khorne because of the stoker and killing frenzy, but be extra careful to make sure they never get charged because they just become totally useless. I would be a little worried about running out of gas early and struggling to handle really tanky armies like Nurgle or Sons of Behemat, but honestly there's not much you can do about that with khorne so you'll just have to focus on objectives and hope for the best. 

Good luck and if you're enjoying it make sure to let us know!

Edited June 28, 2022 by Grimrock

[Thrax]

Grimrock thank you very much for your advice. It makes complete sense and it confirm my choices. I will magnetise the different weapons of the bloodthister to be able to change at will and try them all. With the Wrath of Khorne bloodthirster I reach exactly 2000 pts. And I sure will share my feedbacks, blood for the blood god!

[Iradekhorne]

3 hours ago, Julesborgi said:

Do we still have the cap of max 8 blood tithe Points?

As long i can remember, this cap never existed. 

You feel like it exists because we loose all the points after use it ans the max reward cost 8 tithe points.

 

@Thrax The only bad thing in your list is despite to the new galletian rules.

The 5 dog units is a candy for the enemy because 2 of the new tactics are about kill galletian veterans, and the dogs i think they are.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Iradekhorne

[Thrax]

@Iradekhorne I think you are right. It would be best to put a second bloodthister instead of karkadrak chaos lord + flesh hounds. For now I will do with this and will learn from my mistakes. As well I might change all of it when the BT v3 will come for us.

Plus, I put this first bloodthister precisely for my army to have some punch. I would have prefered to put a pair of korgoraths instead but they are obviously very bad.

@AresX8 mentionned that bloodsecrator within a skull latar expands its radius, where does that rule comes from? It obviously interest me for the impacts of my chaos knights of Khorne (They should be name blood nights, just like blood warriors!)

Edited June 27, 2022 by Thrax
*

[AresX8]

@Thrax

See 17.2 of the core rules, one of the sidenote blips:

"A model in a garrison can still do anything it could do if it were on the battlefield, apart from moving. For example, it can cast spells, issue commands, and so on. When it does so, measure the range and visibility from the terrain feature."

And last sentence of the second paragraph for 17.2.1:

"The range and visibility to and from models
in the unit are determined using the terrain feature instead of the
models themselves."

Also note the first sentence of 17.2.1 (I just saw this while writing this post myself):

"During deployment, a friendly unit can be set up in a defensible terrain
feature’s garrison if the terrain feature is wholly within an area in which
friendly units can be set up."

This allows you to deploy the Bloodsecrator into the Skull Altar so he can immediately fling out whatever Judgment/Invocation you brought in your list. Very nice to get the Wrath Axe out early!

Edited June 27, 2022 by AresX8

[Thrax]

@AresX8 Thank you. I never did read this lines or if I did, I dont remember. I never thought the skull altar was a garrison until 2 days ago.

[Julesborgi]

16 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

As long i can remember, this cap never existed. 

You feel like it exists because we loose all the points after use it ans the max reward cost 8 tithe points.

 

@Thrax The only bad thing in your list is despite to the new galletian rules.

The 5 dog units is a candy for the enemy because 2 of the new tactics are about kill galletian veterans, and the dogs i think they are.

Thank you!

[itgnightraven]

On 6/27/2022 at 5:54 PM, Iradekhorne said:

As long i can remember, this cap never existed. 

You feel like it exists because we loose all the points after use it ans the max reward cost 8 tithe points.

 

@Thrax The only bad thing in your list is despite to the new galletian rules.

The 5 dog units is a candy for the enemy because 2 of the new tactics are about kill galletian veterans, and the dogs i think they are.

the cap has existed, i cant find it directly but the exalted greater demon of khorne speaks about increasing the cap from 8 to 16

[The Red King]

 

[Agent of Chaos]

So skull seekers, how is everyone enjoying playing khorne with the shackles taken off blood tithe? Sure is nice to play with the same rules that every one else has always enjoyed! I'm finding that hero phase moving is great for denying battle tactics, we dont care about enemy bounty hunters because our battleline was already dieing to a wet ****** and our anti-magic capabilities are pretty strong in the current meta of cheap/effective endless spells. By no means are we top tier but things do feel better then they were!