AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[The Red King]

27 minutes ago, medivouk said:

What do you guys think of Gorghons?

 

I have my first game on aos 3 on tuesday, and im currently looking at an alpha beast warpack of 2 of them, and a warlord batallion of Thirster, StD Prince with crimson crown and a 'secrator.

 

im a bit worried about them exploding before they do any damage, but am hoping they go in like a proverbial wreaking ball and let my battleine infantry mop up.

 

Battleline

I use them all the time so some pointers.

They die really easily. So if you expect a lot of shooting they're not really worth it.

Second, they're really swingy. Sometimes you'll go in and kill like 12 guys and sometimes they'll do like 2 wounds. Average against a 4+ save is 6 wounds.

They really benefit from buffs. Just keeping him inside the bloodsecrator aura and giving him all out attack or monstrous duel will double his damage output. Avg against 4+ almost 12. 

They serve best as bait or distractions. I've often lured enemies into committing something dangerous because ghorgon LOOK big and scary and then I end up charging the unit next turn with the things that actually ARE scary (bullgor, bloodthirster, etc). 

I find them of debatable use. If theres a lot of shooting they'll still work as a distraction but almost anything competent will kill them without any trouble. They can lure melee armies into over committing but since shooting doesn't pay the same opportunity costs in the movement phase or have to put themselves at risk to bring it down it really comes down to the meta. Other than that. Depending on the mission they can make for an easy savage spearhead battle tactic and you will want to make use of their monster status to score some extra points because they will inevitably be giving up points to your opponent.

[medivouk]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

I use them all the time so some pointers.

They die really easily. So if you expect a lot of shooting they're not really worth it.

Second, they're really swingy. Sometimes you'll go in and kill like 12 guys and sometimes they'll do like 2 wounds. Average against a 4+ save is 6 wounds.

They really benefit from buffs. Just keeping him inside the bloodsecrator aura and giving him all out attack or monstrous duel will double his damage output. Avg against 4+ almost 12. 

They serve best as bait or distractions. I've often lured enemies into committing something dangerous because ghorgon LOOK big and scary and then I end up charging the unit next turn with the things that actually ARE scary (bullgor, bloodthirster, etc). 

I find them of debatable use. If theres a lot of shooting they'll still work as a distraction but almost anything competent will kill them without any trouble. They can lure melee armies into over committing but since shooting doesn't pay the same opportunity costs in the movement phase or have to put themselves at risk to bring it down it really comes down to the meta. Other than that. Depending on the mission they can make for an easy savage spearhead battle tactic and you will want to make use of their monster status to score some extra points because they will inevitably be giving up points to your opponent.

Sweet. Thanks.

 

That's kinda what I was already thinking.

 

Hopefully my local meta doesn't include too many shooting armies!

[medivouk]

Sorry to double post.

 

Got my army out ready for tomorrow and thought I'd share a photo!

[Lord Krungharr]

Nice looking group!

[frenk_castle]

Good luck on the tournament @medivouk

[medivouk]

Event is a local one on the 24th October...

 

I think I'm gonna need the help lol.

 

Just played vs tzeench tonight. Only got through 1.5 rounds, but was in the lead. I think that was more due to my opponents mistakes than my skull though!

I have a couple more games scheduled so I can fill you guys in if you're interested.

 

Crimson Crown and an STD Prince are well worth taking a warlord Detachment for!

[Praecautus]

Daemon prince and crown are some of the first things on my lists nowadays. Controlling the flow of battle is important to us

[Zamik]

In my experience I've never really needed Bloodslick Ground all game. I use it to create favorable charging conditions for my boys, and then I forget about it once everyone's in combat. There are a lot more CP to go around this edition too, so I'd rather get an Amulet of Destiny. Just me, though.

[The Red King]

Well last night I had an amazing game against daughters of khaine. A matchup I would usually avoid but I was late and didn't have much choice so I set to it and mentally prepared to be murdered like my game against Seraphon.

 

My list was goretide:

Khorgus kul

Demon prince w/torque

Lord on karkadrak w/gorecleaver

Bloodsecrator

Slaughter priest

5 wrathmongers

6 bullgor

10 reavers

5 fleshounds ×2

Ghorgon ×2

Hexgorger skulls

 

Opponent played zainthar kai:

Hag on cauldron w/minus one to wound her artifact

Slaughter queen

Medusa general w/arcane tome

Medusa w/shadowstone

10 witch aelves ×3

15 bloodsisters

15 bloodstalkers

Snake endless spell (he never cast it)

 

I wrote the following write up last night so I'll try to fix it to be more readable but bear with me.

 

Firstly we were playing power struggle where you have to hold the objectives for consecutive turns to score. For deployment he had 20 or so witches on my left side, 10 on my right and then the snakes and heroes central with the archers right of center and glaive left. My deployment had dogs on the flanks, reavers in the middle with the bullgor and wrathmongers, khul and the prince on my left deployed far enough to not be easily shot and the karkadrak on my right also back. A ghorgon to either side of my middle block. I expected him to take first turn with the shooting so maybe deployed too far back but he ended up giving it to me so it was kinda moot.

T = turn as opposed to round.

T1- I summoned the skulls and moved everything up but the bloodsecrator and priest which may have been a mistake keeping them back. I hesitated because the 15 stalkers were scary but I reasoned anything he wanted to kill he would but he couldnt kill everything at once. Popped blood slick ground and just formed up. Scoring 1 point for holding more and 2 for my battle tactic by having the Ghorgon hold one of my objectives on my left flank.
3-0

T2- the daughters failed to cast anything of value despite being out of range of my debuffs, dispelled my skulls, and moved up forming a general blob with the sisters and heroes, witches together side 20 on my left and 10 on my right with the stalkers. Shooting killed khul and 2 wrathmongers but thanks to bloodslick ground he failed the 4 inch charge with rerolls to get into my reavers and bullgor in the middle with his sisters and this may have won me the game. He scores 2 for slaying the warlord.
3-2

T3 - (no double turns in this game). I moved to all forward again (except my dogs who due to my forgetting I could leave objectives stayed back all game) getting the left ghorgon and prince within 3 of the witches, bullgor and reavers within 3 of the stalkers, and right ghorgon and karkadrak with a 5 and 9 inch charge respectively. I started with the bloodreavers who rolled poorly but just enough to get in 3 of his stalkers forcing the overwatch which utterly obliterated them of course. This opened the karkadrak to make a long charge on 10 witches and the ghorgon to make it into the witches/stalkers on his right flank. The bullgor hit the stalkers in the center and my prince and ghorgon hit the 10 witches on my left which where my battle tactic target to kill. The prince and ghorgon killed their 10, the bullgors in the center with all out attack and +2 attacks from wrathmongers+bloodsecrator killed 13.5 blood stalkers (HUGE for me) and the karkadrak and ghorgon on the right killed 8 witches and ~5 stalkers between monstrous and all. The sisters auto passed on a command point and the last 2 witches fled even with a reroll. My right most ghorgon went down to 1 wound, I lost a bullgor, and my prince was taken down to 3 wounds by a medusa who piled in. I scored 3 for the objectives held + more than my opponent, 2 for the tactic, and 1 for doing it with a monster for a big 6.
9-2

T4- He uses hero phase fighting to take the last wound off my right ghorgon but fails to do anything impactful enough to remember between his spells and prayers (some buffs/debuffs) partially due to the skulls. Brings up the last 10 witches on my left and retreats the sisters and medusa in the center. For whatever reason he pours all his shots into my demon prince (salty about that CA I guess) and manages to kill him. Moves the cauldron towards my right and charges into the karkadrak leaving him on 1 wound. He scores the leftmost for 1 as well as bring it down and slay a monster for 3.
9-5

T5- He removed my left side objective but it didnt matter as he hadnt taken his right side one back from me. Things get a little nutty after this with bloodtithe lining up perfectly. I pop The fight on death for 6 and he uses rally to bring back 3 slain blood sisters. My karkadrak stays in glorious combat to die as my bulls reposition to charge the archers if they can get around the sisters. The left side ghorgon moves away from the buffed witches towards exposed support characters and I decide to feed him to the overwatch. Predictably he dies terribly after charging the sisters but somehow manages to deal 9 wounds fighting on death at his bottom bracket thanks to mongers and bloodsecrator. The bullgor then charge the now exposed bloodstalkers and make glorious blood splatters out of the entire unit with all out attack and +2 attacks. His cauldron FAILS to kill the karkadrak who healed to 3 wounds with heroic recovery taking him back down to 1. I score my 2 plus more as well as battle tactic to run 3 units which I did in my backfield. He also scores one for killing my ghorgon.
14-6

Turn 6- I used apoplectic frenzy on my karkadrak during his turn to pile in and kill the cauldron with really lucky rolls. Magic is mostly blocked by the skulls. He proceeds to shoot down another bullgor with medusa stares and charges all his characters and last 10 witches into the bullgor killing them down to 1 remaining with a wound. On death plus their actual activation they kill all 10 witches and possibly the slaughterqueen return. I can't really recall and we basically called it as he failed to take the center objective as his battle tactic and scored a point for holding his.
14-7

I was super pleasantly surprised at the outcome that I won't call entirely luck, but I definitely rolled hot with my bullgor (even after losing kul turn 1) and his target priority for shooting was a bit whack. Like I think target saturation and an unfamiliar army caused him to misplace his shots which could have been better served mincing my bullgor. He also made a mistake letting me go first as I got on the objective in the middle ahead of him to start the process of scoring more. My big mistakes were in forgetting I could move my dogs (could've eaten some overwatch with them instead of a ghorgon) and leaving my Slaughterpriest back early. My biggest tactical positive was when he gave me turn 1 and I decided after much hemming and hawing that nothing could be kept safe so I'd just throw it all and see what made it. Turning point was probably that failed turn 1 charge thanks to bloodslick ground. I guess he didnt shoot them then because he thought the sisters would clean them up easily but there was no excuse not to shoot them on his second turn after he'd seen what they did and he tunneled in on that prince who caused the fumble.

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Red King

[Gesundheit]

We Start our second ptg campaign next week and I wanted to try my Khorne stuff. We start with 600P and i wanted to field this:

The Goretide

1 Bloodsecrator

1 Lord on Juggernaut (General)

20 Reavers

5 Wrathmongers

595P

The Lord ist totaly Tanky because of the artefact and „fast“.

The Rest is Buffstacking.🤷🏼‍♂️
What do you guys think? Is this a Good Start? I got Lots of bodies and Good damage with them.

[Salyx]

I think you found a good start with 2 units of Bloodreavers and the Bloodsecrator. However, for me, there is some beat Stick missing, like Skullreapers, Demon Prince, Lord on Karkadrak, Chosen, Marauders, Minotaurs, Ghorgon... Perhaps even a Fomoroid Crusher or Cockatrice for some shooting and extra scoring on objectives

You have All the buffing Potential available, but few units to Profit from buffs. The Juggerlord is not that good as well, he has only got 3 attacks at - 1 Rend and I would only take him if I wanted to play a lot of Skullcrushers. 

[Lord Krungharr]

19 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

We Start our second ptg campaign next week and I wanted to try my Khorne stuff. We start with 600P and i wanted to field this:

The Goretide

1 Bloodsecrator

1 Lord on Juggernaut (General)

20 Reavers

5 Wrathmongers

595P

The Lord ist totaly Tanky because of the artefact and „fast“.

The Rest is Buffstacking.🤷🏼‍♂️
What do you guys think? Is this a Good Start? I got Lots of bodies and Good damage with them.

I might recommend a couple Doombulls.  Not much more than 1 unit of 3 Bullgors, but a better save, better hitting, and they now do D3 MW on the charge on a 2+ I think, plus the rare Blood Greed MW.  

[Gesundheit]

Thanks for the help, but i cant Field that much allied units at all. And the general cant be an allie too. I Need to take something from the Codex. The Problem is with just 600P to get enough bodies.🤷🏼‍♂️
 

The skullreapers are f****** expensive for what they do.😅

[Praecautus]

The juggerlord is pretty decent, tanky and can pump out damage w gorecleaver and hew the foe. If you plan to add juggernauts he is a no brainier.

The mighty lord of Khorne is also a good option. He had a 3+ save and an unbind. His axe will make opponents question where to put a monster or hero. Three fun ways to build him, goretide w hew the foe and gorecleaver. This gets rend and extra damage increasing chance a wound will get through. Reapers w Mage eater for 2 x unbinds and first unbind giving D6 MW on an 8. You can also add skillshard mantle to make a decent antimagic hero. Finally, No host and have bezerker lord and gorecleaver for a ward and rend.

I would look to add a second hammer. Skullreapers are a decent unit and a source of MW. They will do a lot more than reavers with a Bloodsecrator and wrathmonger buffs. At 4+\4+ And coherency, reavers will struggle to do anything regardless of the number of attacks. I would be tempted to drop 10 reavers and the wrathmongers for 5 skullreapers

Dont underestimate the bloodstoker, he can get people across the board fast and reroll all wounds is super nice. But you may not be able to fit him in yet w general and secrator

[TimeToWaste85]

The Stoker may be the most important character there is in a Goretide list. 26” charge range on Warriors and Reavers can make for a crippling strike if your opponent doesn’t know about it. 

[Perturbato]

making an army about the inexperiency of the opponent isn't a good idea

[Salyx]

I guess it is even better if he knows about it, because it will influence their play a lot.

Well...unless they know how crappy Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers are -.-

[The Red King]

Yeah the problem is they'll get there sure, but then what? That's to far away for any of our buffs so best case scenario you've shoved 20 warriors into their line that HOPEFULLY don't immediately die.

[TimeToWaste85]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

Yeah the problem is they'll get there sure, but then what? That's to far away for any of our buffs so best case scenario you've shoved 20 warriors into their line that HOPEFULLY don't immediately die.

Play to the Blood Tithe. Throw ten warriors, they fight when they die so you always get their attacks. Throw them at a wizard or something, or a target they’re likely to simultaneously wipe each other. Get the points, build toward a Thirster. Or army buffs. I’m not expecting them to kill an army on their own. That would be insane. But a 26” range does effectively control where your opponent puts characters, and everything eventually falls under the weight of dice. 
 

with the way battalions work now, Khorne (sadly) should be all about the MSU and weight of dice. Hordes of Bloodthirsty cannibals that die to bring about boosts and Thirsters. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by TimeToWaste85

[Hannibal]

Hi all,

 

anyone ever thought about the inclusion of a Chimera in Khorne forces? It gains the KHORNE Keyword (coalition rules), has plenty of attacks (Bloodsecrator), a good shooting attack and is well maneuverable.

Or is a Bloodthirster just overall better?

[LordDave]

39 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Hi all,

 

anyone ever thought about the inclusion of a Chimera in Khorne forces? It gains the KHORNE Keyword (coalition rules), has plenty of attacks (Bloodsecrator), a good shooting attack and is well maneuverable.

Or is a Bloodthirster just overall better?

Only played small games, 5+ Save and 12 wounds is probably too squishy in anything competitive, but yes secrator really helps, and having a d6 MW auto hit missile attack is fun with unleash hell (and then stomp)… not being a hero really hurts as can’t heal, so a chaos Lord on manticore is probably better overall as a bloodthirster alternative, but I like the chimera model so on that basis he’s in…

[The Red King]

I can't give an extensive play by play like my daughters of khaine win but tonight I took a pretty convincing win over kruelboyz facing gobsprak, swamp monster, 12 boltboiz, 20 gutrippaz, 2 shamans, and 2 man skewers. Same list as before and I was able to convincingly take down everything but the ranged units though I did lose a lot more this time ending the game something like 22 to 12 with my support heroes, karkadrak, reavers, mongers, and some summoned dogs. To all of his ranged guys and one shaman. It was a bloodbath but playing to the mission worked very well.

[Perturbato]

20 hours ago, LordDave said:

Only played small games, 5+ Save and 12 wounds is probably too squishy in anything competitive, but yes secrator really helps, and having a d6 MW auto hit missile attack is fun with unleash hell (and then stomp)… not being a hero really hurts as can’t heal, so a chaos Lord on manticore is probably better overall as a bloodthirster alternative, but I like the chimera model so on that basis he’s in…

give the bloodsecrator the banner to reroll 1 for additional success 

[frenk_castle]

Ulf Rot (Red Wolf my custom Mighty Lord of Khorne) with his flesh hound Kharga. Just got these sent by my commission painter.

[The Red King]

42 minutes ago, frenk_castle said:

Ulf Rot (Red Wolf my custom Mighty Lord of Khorne) with his flesh hound Kharga. Just got these sent by my commission painter.

I love him but that mold line is egregious! Couldn't your commissioner have just slapped a little anything in there lol.