AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Agent of Chaos]

KHORNE (Generic)	Grand Strategy: Sever the Head	9 Drops
Vanguard	Notes	Role	Points
Doombull		Leader	115
3 x Bullgors	Great Axes		155
3 x Bullgors	Great Axes		155
Warlord	Notes	Role	Points
Daemon Prince	Artifact: Mark of the Slayer	Leader	210
Slaughterpriest	Prayer: Killing Frenzy	Leader	110
Aspiring Deathbringer		Leader	85
10 x Bloodreavers		Battleline	80
5 x Wrathmongers			155
Battle Regiment	Notes	Role	Points
Bloodsecrator	General, Trait: Berzerker Lord	Leader	125
Bloodstoker	Artifact: Talisman of Burning Blood	Leader	85
5 x Flesh Hounds		Battleline	105
5 x Flesh Hounds		Battleline	105
5 x Flesh Hounds		Battleline	105
5 x Skullreapers			205
5 x Skullreapers			205
		TOTAL =	2000

Its a crazy 9 drops but its all about buffing those bullgors with reroll 1's to hit (from Mark of the Slayer), +1 to hit and wound and extra attacks with flesh hounds to screen them. Meanwhile the skullreapers, bloodstoker & Deathbringer go off and do their thing. The Bloodsecrator should be fairly tanky, especially if he gets in cover and/or uses all out defense. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Agent of Chaos

[Agent of Chaos]

Meanwhile this is what I've got for Reapers;

Khorne - The Reapers of Vengeance	Grand Strategy: Beast Master	6 Drops
Warlord	Notes	Role	Points
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage	Artifact: Argath King of Blades	Leader	280
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury		Leader	295
Bloodsecrator		Leader	125
Slaughterpriest	Prayer: Killing Frenzy	Leader	110
5 x Wrathmongers			155
Battle Regiment	Notes	Role	Points
Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster	General, Trait: Mage Eater Artifact: Skullshard Mantle	Leader	310
5 x Flesh Hounds		Battleline	105
5 x Flesh Hounds		Battleline	105
5 x Flesh Hounds		Battleline	105
5 x Skullreapers			205
5 x Skullreapers			205
		TOTAL =	2000

 

A much more reasonable 6 drops but probably ambitious with Beast Master as the Grand Strat. It relies on the thirsters to wreck face with ample support from the Skullreapers. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Good point on the Grand Strategies.  Not an easy task for any all around Khorne Build.  Beast Master is feasible with Ghorgons, Cygors, Manticore Lord, of course Bloodthirsters, Soul Grinders.  

I'm liking Skullfiend Tribe now, as I have 2 Khorgoraths, and I think I want 2 more.  They count as 2 models each, WOOT, and are pretty tanky and killy anyways.  Plus they other decent stuff reasonably applicable to a variety of builds.  But Slaughterhost isn't super necessary.  No mandatory artefact and CT is sometimes nice.

[Praecautus]

I think my choice of general for a mortal list is coming down to either

Khorgus khul for his 8 inch pile in and axe and rr1s. Plus side those abilities are all nice and will give the opponent an issue with monster placement of going for him. But only 3 swings of the axe isn’t great

but I think my preferred is

Bloodsecrator w wrath banner and a bodyguard of chaos warriors w sword and shield. Really tanky blob that will be hard to smash through to with those warriors who can LOS or absorb MW while the banner pulses MW every combat round. Then maybe some knights w krakadrak lord to cause trouble. couple w prince, blood stoker and a priest and maybe Skarr and some wrathmongers for the mw, pile in on death and Skarr deepstrike ability.

I am not sure basic mlok does enough, although charge reroll in this list is good. Juggerlord suffers from the trigger nerf to his damage

[Perturbato]

2 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

I'm struggling with any type of Khorne list at the moment. One major issue is that we are used to making our General into a beatstick murder machine however AOS3 rewards you more for taking a tanky/defensive general. If you lose your general you lose a CP per turn so if he goes down during a Round 1 alpha strike thats 8CP for the battle you are losing. In addition you might have handed your opponent a battle tactic and/or their grand strategy, plus an extra VP if its a monster i.e. bloodthirster

I'm also mindful of which grand strategy to choose. Our battleline is all weak and meant to die so Hold the Line is out. Aside from Archaon none of our monsters or heroes (including priests) are tanky and we have no wizards so Beast Master, Pillars of Belief, Prized Sorcery and Vendetta are out. Sever the Head and Dominating Presence are extremely situational; you could come up against tanky heroes/units or just a mass of units and never be able to achieve these. That just leaves Predator's Domain, where a late game summoning might help us claim the extra terrain feature needed to achieve this Strat but my god (Khorne) its lame! 😞 I dont play Khorne to control scenery so I think Sever the Head feels best and I will just have to accept there will be games where its not possible to do. 

Choosing a slaughterhost is also really tricky now. I want to run daemons, mortals and BoC together but the host rules will only effect 1 out of 3 of those factions. I want to run a tanky general but all the command traits promote an aggressive general. Thronebreakers Torc is nice but then you cant benefit from cover/all out defense. I think Reapers still has play, especially with the new restriction on Inspiring Presence. I also think Generic Khorne might be an option too. Below are a couple of lists I've cooked up...

Yeah we have no easy build like soulblight grave lord battletome where everything synergise well .. but we have a rather old battletome and maybe when ours is updated we will be able to less torture our head.

Right now i'm using a medium battleline force with mortals and skullreapers and a few medium monsters. I think my list is able to do some damage and my grand strategy will be preserve the battleline. So that the enemy will focus my battleline and i will be free to gain VP with my monsters or they focus my monsters and i will be winning my grand strategy. I was winning with mortal list because of the scenarios by getting objectives and keep thoses for the match but now the scenario itself won't suffise so we need an army with mobility, monsters and lethality and i think mortals are not here. Maybe using BoC but they don't have my khorne way of life (too fragile) and i don't want to spam flying chickens.

Khorne has always been not easy to master(don't fail your bubbles) but we are always able to make the opponent strugle. It has become harder now and i'm a bit frustrated but we need to wait for battletome and hope it won't transform into a summon army like slaanesh ! But with new battletome our slaughterhost and prayers/judgements will be more calibrated again i hope !

Here's my list i will test his evening. Let's see what's it worth !

And i will test this list after because our bloodthirsters are more usefull than before :

[Praecautus]

So playing around with a mortal list of blades plus Khorne slaves. Think ii quite like this although I won’t be winning any drop wars. Ithink goretide and need to sort battalions

Bloodsecrator - general, banner of wrath

Lord on krakadrak - thronebreakers

Daemon prince of khorne

Priest - sacrifice

Skarr

Blood stoker

Reavers 10 

Flesh hounds 5 

blood warriors 10

chaos knights 5

chaos knights 5

chais warriors 10

wrath mongers 5

magores fiends and Riptooth 

Skull alter

Hex skulls

1980 if I added it up right

I may do some juggling about to fit in a monster (slaughterbrute?) there is flex in the battle line and magores to free the points to do so and or change a leader to a second priest with curse or even a warshrine instead and drop the main priest

I can certainly build a few battalions with it and then modify over next few games.

But appreciate the hive mind thoughts

[TimeToWaste85]

Khorgas and Scyla both have an 8” pile-in, which is incredible at giving the finger to Unleash Hell. In addition, Goretide Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers have an average threat range of 24” and 25” respectively (using a Bloodstoker). MSU favors Khorne because units die quicker for BT points. And with minimal point increases compared to others, I’m confident Khorne is making out well this edition. Cheap chaff is also good if you want to press the BT route; look to Underworld Warbands for that (Magore’s for 3 Warriors and a dispel hound, Wurmspat ally for mystic shield that’ll give up two BTs and refuses to die without serious effort). 

[Perturbato]

31 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Khorgas and Scyla both have an 8” pile-in, which is incredible at giving the finger to Unleash Hell. In addition, Goretide Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers have an average threat range of 24” and 25” respectively (using a Bloodstoker). MSU favors Khorne because units die quicker for BT points. And with minimal point increases compared to others, I’m confident Khorne is making out well this edition. Cheap chaff is also good if you want to press the BT route; look to Underworld Warbands for that (Magore’s for 3 Warriors and a dispel hound, Wurmspat ally for mystic shield that’ll give up two BTs and refuses to die without serious effort). 

yeah but none of this will grant us Victory Points according to the GHB.

[Holy_Diver]

19 hours ago, Oldhat said:

What are folks thoughts on Khorne Ghorgons in a mortals-centric list? 

They are hot trash, despite their cost, because no fly Move 8", Save 5+ and Bravery 7 (why bother on bravery? Play against Lumineth for example).
For 340 points (the cost of 2 cows) you put 6x Mighty Skullcrushers, in a Hunter Battallion, and then look the opponent go apoplectic to remove they on objectives (35 wounds on 2+ Save, that count 12 models, immune to rampage).

Khorne can say a lot more things with the new changes, but must think a bit different from aos 2.0. 
For example: I played against Lumineth in my first game and I missed so much an Unfettered Fury Bloddthirster, cause of his 6" pile in (that can ignore Unleash Hell), compared to the Wrath of Khorne, that is the "Jack of all trades one".
I'm searching the baddest Reapers of Vengeance list to play competitive, so I'm testing that sub faction, but I think there are some solutions with Goretide too.

[The Red King]

My thoughts on general/grand strategy is to take a bloodsecrator with the amulet of destiny and plop him into the skull altar for a 2+ save -1 to hit him and a nice boost to his aura. Then I'm gonna put some blood warriors in front of it and the only thing he's really vulnerable to then is mass MW spam at range (so lumineth and Kroak but let's be real everything dies to mass MW at range). 

 

As for list construction I still feel like anything more than 4 drops should give up on getting its drops down and just take other batallions for guaranteed bonuses, but that's just me. A 9 drop and a 15 drop list are both going to go after a 5 drop so you're just leaving bonuses on the table... errr off the table I suppose lol.

[Perturbato]

The Skull altar is less usefull in many maps our territory is too small  so putting a bloodsecrator is good for defense but you won't score points in defense now

[The Red King]

Well after a pretty disheartening game against basic stormcast of all things I have a few thoughts.

 

One. it's worth it to go for the low drops. Getting double turned on the top of 2 is a very big problem.

Two. Khul has to be my general to use the rr 1's so I'm gonna have to settle for taking the "capture terrain pieces" grand strategy and use summoned units I guess? That or take hold the line and give up 80 points of blood reavers to sit way in the back at all times (maybe not so bad to screen deepstrikes).

Three. Not that anyone was wondering but blood warriors are so incredibly bad for their points. EDIT: Turns out if you ignore 2/3rd of a units special rules (No respite, gorefists) they don't perform quite as well as they could. Imma leave em in for now and give them another go, but dropping them and the skullgrinder for a demon prince is very tempting for that command ability.

Four. I really need to pay better attention to our auras but also man our heroes are squishy and thunderstrike armor is a pain as the dominion units just seem to so casually chuck mortal wounds around for which we have no defense.

Edited July 8, 2021 by The Red King

[Perturbato]

Hehe i played my mortal list versus Tzeentch and i got blasted by spells  he played defensively and as it wasn't a game for a tornament i decided to go for him. It was nearly impossible to keep my khorne bubbles in trying to attack fast. Really hard to synergise.

[TimeToWaste85]

9 hours ago, Perturbato said:

Hehe i played my mortal list versus Tzeentch and i got blasted by spells  he played defensively and as it wasn't a game for a tornament i decided to go for him. It was nearly impossible to keep my khorne bubbles in trying to attack fast. Really hard to synergise.

Do you have any anti-magic? Khorne has a lot (Karanak, Riptooth, Scyla, WoK thirster, etc). Or Goretide and slam a Goretide 30man BW unit in his face in a single shot (19-31” threat range)

[Lord Krungharr]

For my theoretical 2 Warlord battalion army, one of the extra artefacts will be a Brazen Rune.  The mortal heroes are not the killiest so the Bloodstoker can take the Rune.  Very handy for that key spell, good vs Teclis or Kroak, etc.  

Many people forget the Bloodsecrator's effect of having to reroll successful casting rolls within 16" of him, BEFORE any unbinding attempts.  

What all has to happen for a Goretide BW unit to go that fast?  Bloodstoker+Goretide CA?  

It would be loathsome but fun to ally in a wizard like the Shaggoth or a cheapo Bray Shaman to cast levitate on 30 Bloodwarriors.  But that's a tough spell to cast....especially when anywhere near all the anti-magic stuff of Khorne.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Lord Krungharr

[Perturbato]

28 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Do you have any anti-magic? Khorne has a lot (Karanak, Riptooth, Scyla, WoK thirster, etc). Or Goretide and slam a Goretide 30man BW unit in his face in a single shot (19-31” threat range)

He had a the new cogs and bonus to cast. The time my skulls arrived on him he launched on purpose a 8 with destiny dice to pop off my skulls and he was free to cast. I still add 3 unbind but he add too many bonus to cast  And my pack of BW lost failed the charge they needed because of destiny dice too .. i hate tzeentch. 

[Perturbato]

8 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

For my theoretical 2 Warlord battalion army, one of the extra artefacts will be a Brazen Rune.  The mortal heroes are not the killiest so the Bloodstoker can take the Rune.  Very handy for that key spell, good vs Teclis or Kroak, etc.  

Many people forget the Bloodsecrator's effect of having to reroll successful casting rolls within 16" of him, BEFORE any unbinding attempts.  

What all has to happen for a Goretide BW unit to go that fast?  Bloodstoker+Goretide CA?  

It would be loathsome but fun to ally in a wizard like the Shaggoth or a cheapo Bray Shaman to cast levitate on 30 Bloodwarriors.  But that's a tough spell to cast....especially when anywhere near all the anti-magic stuff of Khorne.

16' to reroll isn't that far when the bloodsecrator is nearly the slowest guy on the mortal realms. And launching a big pack of BW will slow the enemy but won't do much damage out of the bubbles if the enemy is clever, + they can redeploy and my god they are expensives. 

And people will never focus the bloodstoker with their spells .. there is many other important targets to hit. He's only worth 85.

 

You can't take Wizards in coalition units.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Perturbato

[The Red King]

15 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

16' to reroll isn't that far when the bloodsecrator is nearly the slowest guy on the mortal realms. And launching a big pack of BW will slow the enemy but won't do much damage out of the bubbles if the enemy is clever, + they can redeploy and my god they are expensives. 

And people will never focus the bloodstoker with their spells .. there is many other important targets to hit. He's only worth 85.

 

You can't take Wizards in coalition units.

Am I right that you CAN ally a slaves to darkness/maggotkin wizard though? 

[Perturbato]

8 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Am I right that you CAN ally a slaves to darkness/maggotkin wizard though? 

as an ally yes but not a unit that can have a mark of chaos (so no sorcerer)

Edited July 8, 2021 by Perturbato

[TimeToWaste85]

20 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

as an ally yes but not a unit that can have a mark of chaos (so no sorcerer)

Slightly Untrue. Godsworn or Khagra’s Ravagers are both options. Or allied Bray Shaman/Maggotkin sorc. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by TimeToWaste85

[Zamik]

47 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

He had a the new cogs and bonus to cast. The time my skulls arrived on him he launched on purpose a 8 with destiny dice to pop off my skulls and he was free to cast. I still add 3 unbind but he add too many bonus to cast  And my pack of BW lost failed the charge they needed because of destiny dice too .. i hate tzeentch. 

You know our warscrolls are woeful when the enemy CHOOSES to let them do their big thing and then carries on 😖. How many MW did you get out of that?

[TimeToWaste85]

I’m confused; how did destiny dice kill your charge? It affects their rolls, not yours. Unless they retreated with them. 

[Lord Krungharr]

2 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

I’m confused; how did destiny dice kill your charge? It affects their rolls, not yours. Unless they retreated with them. 

Yeah I was wondering the same thing.  

 

51 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

16' to reroll isn't that far when the bloodsecrator is nearly the slowest guy on the mortal realms. And launching a big pack of BW will slow the enemy but won't do much damage out of the bubbles if the enemy is clever, + they can redeploy and my god they are expensives. 

And people will never focus the bloodstoker with their spells .. there is many other important targets to hit. He's only worth 85.

 

Bloodstoker doesn't need to do anything but unleash the Brazen Rune and whip those deadbeat mortals into fury; he's not meant to be a threat or distraction.  I agree, he will never be a priority target for most.

I think a Bloodsecrator with the big blob of Blood Warriors in a Vanguard detachment would be great, as the Goretide could let them run and charge plus 6" on the run, and the battalion bonus could let the Bloodsecrator run up 6" for free once to get him closer.  Any banner artefact on him would be good.  I'm gonna give that a try; I have 20 Gorefist BWs.  All out defense on them and that's a decent tank.  Heck, a Slaughterpriest could Bless them for a 6++ and they'd be super duper annoying!

Enemies can be clever, but so we can we.  That's the game, man!

[Perturbato]

52 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

I’m confused; how did destiny dice kill your charge? It affects their rolls, not yours. Unless they retreated with them. 

kairos can change one dice

[Perturbato]

57 minutes ago, Zamik said:

You know our warscrolls are woeful when the enemy CHOOSES to let them do their big thing and then carries on 😖. How many MW did you get out of that?

manage to do 4 MW to kairos but heroic action he got 3 back he had luck and destiny dice on his side.

It did 3 MW to the caster thought. But every caster he has was to spam invocation point in order to bring another lord of change