AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Agent of Chaos]

6 hours ago, Gristlegut said:

My question for him is how effective is his 6 roll on wounds effect? If he could be a bit more tanky would he be better? I plan on teaming him up with a unit of bloodcrushers. I am worried about his lack of shooting. 

What is the BT Meta these days with the 3.0/FAQ changes? Be'lakor thanks you!

The Insensate Rage Thirster can be an absolute murder machine game winner. If you charge him to the right place and get a couple of 6's on the wound roll he can decimate half an army. 6-8 mortal wounds will cripple most units and take out any supporting heroes nearby. His biggest issues are: 4+ to hit (less of an issue now with all out attack) and the swingy nature of D6 damage (Ive had combats where he didnt roll any 6's to wound and did 3 damage overall).

Survivability is not this guy's concern. Rerolling saves is nice, a 5+ ward from amulet of destiny is probably better. Either way he will go down so the trick is to do as much damage before he does. The artifact for D3 mortal wounds on 5+ to hit sounds awesome as he will be a mortal wound machine. Remember he rerolls 1's to hit on the charge which will help proc that artifact.

I would not recommend putting bloodcrushers in your list. 3 of them do nothing, 6 of them suffer from coherency and are way overcosted for what they do. I would screen the thirster with 5 x flesh hounds. They can screen better and get you an extra unbind.

As for the Meta? Way too early to say. We know thirsters will benefit from the new hero and monster abilities so that only adds to their effectiveness. We also know shooting is still very strong and now unleash hell is a thing so make sure you send in a chaff unit first to soak up any shots before charging the thirster in. 

[Darksteve]

So I was messing around with a memey Reapers Thirster list with the idea being having 2x BTs with ROV at 1500 point with Fury being a wizard via arcane tome. Both BTs and Khul can ignore unleash hell.

[b]++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Khorne) [1,495pts] ++[/b]

[b]+ Core Battalion +[/b]

[b]Core Battalion: Warlord:[/b] Extra Enhancement: Artefacts of Power

[b]+ Leader +[/b]

[b]Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [295pts][/b]
. Arcane Tome

[b]Korghos Khul [165pts]:[/b] Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders

[b]Slaughterpriest [110pts]:[/b] 1. Bronzed Flesh, Guidance, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer, Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders

[b]Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster [310pts]:[/b] General, Warlord - 1-2 Commanders

[b]+ Battleline +[/b]

[b]Bloodreavers [80pts]:[/b] 10 Bloodreavers, Reaver Blades, Warlord - 1-2 Troops

[b]Flesh Hounds [105pts]:[/b] 5 Flesh Hounds

[b]+ Other +[/b]

[b]Karanak [150pts][/b]

[b]+ Artillery +[/b]

[b]Skull Cannons [140pts]:[/b] Skull Cannon

[b]Skull Cannons [140pts]:[/b] Skull Cannon

[b]+ Allegiance +[/b]

[b]Allegiance:[/b] Allegiance: Khorne

[b]+ Game Options +[/b]

[b]Game Type:[/b] 2000 Points - Battlehost

[b]Grand Strategy:[/b] Predator's Domain

[b]++ Total: [1,495pts] ++[/b]

Created with [url=https://battlescribe.net]BattleScribe[/url]

So here I have 2x unbinds at +2 with the Wrath BT, 1 with karnak, 1 with fleshhounds, 1 with the priest, 1 with Khul, and 1 with Fury BT. Additionally, if karnak's summon goes off I get another one.

Question: Since priests still each know a blood blessing that doesn't count as the prayer enhancement correct?

Let me know what yoy guys think and if you think it can be reorangized into a better core battalion. Right now I kust have some of it in warlord for the tome. 

 

 

[Charleston]

7 hours ago, Perturbato said:

Read again the FAQ warscrolls about our jugements. They are uterly sh*t now.

I did, thoose are what I refered to. And yes, changes are drastic, but some also make sense:

• Bleeding Icon no longer makes mortal wounds
• Hexgorger Skulls no longer have to be both in range but only one is enough which increases the bubble. Spell Rolls of 8 cause the Skulls to disappear, which is okay I guess?
• Axe lost the hit debuff. 

Edit: I have the feeling that Invocations were supposed to stay now at end of turn and no longer disappear on their own, but GW messed up to include this into the FAQ

Edit 2: From the DoK FAQ:

Q: Is an Invocation of Khaine a prayer? A: No.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Charleston

[drkrash]

12 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Remember he rerolls 1's to hit on the charge which will help proc that artifact.

 

As a greater daemon, he re-rolls 1s on all his attacks, charge or not.  Has this changed?

[Gristlegut]

14 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

The Insensate Rage Thirster can be an absolute murder machine game winner. If you charge him to the right place and get a couple of 6's on the wound roll he can decimate half an army. 6-8 mortal wounds will cripple most units and take out any supporting heroes nearby. His biggest issues are: 4+ to hit (less of an issue now with all out attack) and the swingy nature of D6 damage (Ive had combats where he didnt roll any 6's to wound and did 3 damage overall).

Survivability is not this guy's concern. Rerolling saves is nice, a 5+ ward from amulet of destiny is probably better. Either way he will go down so the trick is to do as much damage before he does. The artifact for D3 mortal wounds on 5+ to hit sounds awesome as he will be a mortal wound machine. Remember he rerolls 1's to hit on the charge which will help proc that artifact.

I would not recommend putting bloodcrushers in your list. 3 of them do nothing, 6 of them suffer from coherency and are way overcosted for what they do. I would screen the thirster with 5 x flesh hounds. They can screen better and get you an extra unbind.

As for the Meta? Way too early to say. We know thirsters will benefit from the new hero and monster abilities so that only adds to their effectiveness. We also know shooting is still very strong and now unleash hell is a thing so make sure you send in a chaff unit first to soak up any shots before charging the thirster in. 

Super good feedback. You got my wheels turning. I will look at the flesh hound idea....I have 5 from my old Karanak build. The one thing about the 5+ hit = d3 MW is that the sequence stops. So you loose the wound effect of the rage thirster. Agree with the 5+ ward artifact.

I believe it will work on a Wrath thirster. His 6 attacks do not profile and he can reroll all hits with this CA,  Reroll hits if it's a monster or hero and he has shooting. Fishing for those 5-6 die is the key. Plus his shooting makes him even more attractive.

I will try both and let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

[Fuchur]

Hi all,

got a game vs SoB next week and wonder if there are any special strategies to know when you are BoK?

Here is the list that I got in mind so far, what do you think? I´m not sure if I should replace the DP with another unit of Skullreapers or if I should add a Mindstealer Sphiranx.

 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280) in Battle Regiment
- Artefact: A'rgath the King of Blades
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (310) in Warlord
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Skarbrand (380) in Warlord
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) in Warlord
- General
- Axe
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
Bloodsecrator (125) in Warlord

Battleline
5 x Flesh Hounds (105) in Battle Regiment
5 x Flesh Hounds (105) in Battle Regiment
5 x Flesh Hounds (105) in Battle Regiment

Units
5 x Skullreapers (205) in Warlord
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (155) in Battle Regiment

Core Battalions
Warlord
Battle Regiment

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

[AresX8]

Think I figured out something for Daemons, originally I was disappointed greatly by Leave None Alive still be restricted by being issued by Heroes, so this required a perspective change. Instead of trying to get Bloodletters to fight twice, I remembered an old combo I tried to do but didn't work in 2nd ed because there weren't as many CPs. 

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster Lord of the Blood Hunt command ability + Bloodletter Hellblade Decapitating Blow. Give Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster the Crimson Crown artifact for maximum efficiency, and fish for them 6s to hit in the same manner as Skullreapers.

We keep our pile in 6" shenanigans via Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury command ability Rejoice in the Slaughter. It's one of those "aura" command abilities that do not count affected units as receiving a command. 

"Some older command abilities specify that the effect of the
command ability applies to multiple units within a certain
distance of the unit that is issuing the command (for example,
all friendly units with a specific keyword). When this is the
case, the command is both issued and received by the same
model, even though the effect of the command applies to
the specified units within the specified range. The model
that issued the command cannot issue or receive another
command in that phase (because a model cannot issue more
than 1 command in the same phase and a unit cannot receive
more than 1 command in the same phase), but could do so in a
future phase even if the effect of the command lasts for longer
than the phase in which the command was issued. The other
units that benefit from the effect of the command do not count
as having received the command (and so are not prevented
from receiving a different command in the same phase)"

pg 2 of core rules errata

I put together a list I'd like to give a whirl this week with this module on place but with other threats involved:
 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
- Grand Strategy: Sever the Head
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (310) in Warlord #1
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown
Slaughterpriest (110) in Warlord #1
- Prayer: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (110) in Warlord #1
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (295) in Warlord #2
- Artefact: Harvester of Skulls
Bloodsecrator (125) in Warlord #2
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Skulltaker (130) in Warlord #2
Karanak (150)

Battleline
20 x Bloodletters (230) in Warlord #1
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Bloodletters (230) in Warlord #2
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Wrath-Axe (85)

Core Battalions
Warlord #1
Warlord #2

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115

[ledha]

16 hours ago, Charleston said:

I did, thoose are what I refered to. And yes, changes are drastic, but some also make sense:

• Bleeding Icon no longer makes mortal wounds
• Hexgorger Skulls no longer have to be both in range but only one is enough which increases the bubble. Spell Rolls of 8 cause the Skulls to disappear, which is okay I guess?
• Axe lost the hit debuff. 

Edit: I have the feeling that Invocations were supposed to stay now at end of turn and no longer disappear on their own, but GW messed up to include this into the FAQ

Edit 2: From the DoK FAQ:

Q: Is an Invocation of Khaine a prayer? A: No.

if invocations are not prayer does that mean the skull altar don't help us to summon them ?

[Agent of Chaos]

11 hours ago, drkrash said:

As a greater daemon, he re-rolls 1s on all his attacks, charge or not.  Has this changed?

Nothing has changed however he is running him in Legion of the First Prince allegiance as opposed to Khorne.

[LordRhulak]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

if invocations are not prayer does that mean the skull altar don't help us to summon them ?

Invocations aren't prayers but the warscroll says that they are summoned with one, so I think we still get the altar rerolls, but we have to pick and choose between blood blessings, warscroll prayers and judgements. 

[Agent of Chaos]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

if invocations are not prayer does that mean the skull altar don't help us to summon them ?

Skull Altar rules specifically state you can reroll judgement rolls so that should be sweet.

Im very surprised and confused to see that DOK invocations are not prayers as everything you read says Invocations are summoned with a "prayer" roll. I note there was no such clarification for Khorne invocations so its still unclear to me.

[Lord Krungharr]

I am cobbling together what I thought should be a Skarbrand from some Bloodthirster arms and legs I got cheap, and a Ghorgon torso (which I cut shorter).  But is Skarbrand worth taking over an Insensate Rage Thirster who can take the Amulet of Destiny?  Should I be making both?  I was also considering a Soul Grinder, but the Rage Thirster isn't that much more in points.

[Perturbato]

On 7/5/2021 at 7:34 AM, Charleston said:

I did, thoose are what I refered to. And yes, changes are drastic, but some also make sense:

• Bleeding Icon no longer makes mortal wounds
• Hexgorger Skulls no longer have to be both in range but only one is enough which increases the bubble. Spell Rolls of 8 cause the Skulls to disappear, which is okay I guess?
• Axe lost the hit debuff. 

Edit: I have the feeling that Invocations were supposed to stay now at end of turn and no longer disappear on their own, but GW messed up to include this into the FAQ

Edit 2: From the DoK FAQ:

Q: Is an Invocation of Khaine a prayer? A: No.

When you take account of the utility of the judgements, their cost, and the importance of only one prayer a turn. 

The fact that the skulls only utility now are -2 to cast .. but they cost 60 points ! There are usefull prayers that are free.

The fact that Hexgorger skulls don't reduce hits, 2 mortal wounds average + 1/6 chance of fail to do more .. for 85 points !! I'll pass on that again. We don't have the luxury to launch our judgement turn one and wait for the melee to happen chanting blood blessings because the map is smaller and we need the blessings as soon as possible.

Bleeding icon ... is bravery bomb a thing in khorne ? 50 points and a prayer slot .. no thanks. 

 

But i feel maybe i'm just negative and i'm sorry for that. I loved my old priest and i would  have said ok to one prayer/blessing + one judgement

[ledha]

I think the new axe need us to take in account it's now on a roll of 4+rr to cast, which is much easier and that it doesn't disappear by itself so we can now "fire and forget" with it. I'll keep it even if only because it's a fantastic piece of board control

[Perturbato]

1 minute ago, ledha said:

I think the new axe need us to take in account it's now on a roll of 4+rr to cast, which is much easier and that it doesn't disappear by itself so we can now "fire and forget" with it. I'll keep it even if only because it's a fantastic piece of board control

what do you mean by board control ? models can go trought invocations now

[ledha]

1 minute ago, Perturbato said:

what do you mean by board control ? models can go trought invocations now

They still can't sit on it and these are quite big pieces. A big base will have some trouble to land where it want if there is an axe around

[Perturbato]

I find it really expensive for that utility

[Oldhat]

What are folks thoughts on Khorne Ghorgons in a mortals-centric list? 

[Lord Krungharr]

1 hour ago, Oldhat said:

What are folks thoughts on Khorne Ghorgons in a mortals-centric list? 

With their Slavering Maw, and an extra attack with it from a Bloodsecrator, or maybe another one with Wrathmongers, I'd say they're pretty solid for their points with the new monster rules.  I also like the Cygors; is 2 Cygors better than 1 Soul Grinder, or better than 1 regular Bloodthirster?  Hmmmm

. If you can fit 16 total units in your army, you could get 2 of each to fill out all the Behemoth slots for less than 1/3 of your points in a 2K game!

Kinda cool we can make a Khorne army with using only 1/4 Blades of Khorne units.  3x5 Flesh Hounds for Battleline, and everything else Beasts and Slaves to Darkness IF we want to do that.  Big IF though.  

[Oldhat]

55 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

With their Slavering Maw, and an extra attack with it from a Bloodsecrator, or maybe another one with Wrathmongers, I'd say they're pretty solid for their points with the new monster rules.  I also like the Cygors; is 2 Cygors better than 1 Soul Grinder, or better than 1 regular Bloodthirster?  Hmmmm

. If you can fit 16 total units in your army, you could get 2 of each to fill out all the Behemoth slots for less than 1/3 of your points in a 2K game!

Kinda cool we can make a Khorne army with using only 1/4 Blades of Khorne units.  3x5 Flesh Hounds for Battleline, and everything else Beasts and Slaves to Darkness IF we want to do that.  Big IF though.  

The list I'm tinkering with features two Ghorgons and has both a Bloodsecrator and a unit of Wrathmongers. It gives the list two big critters. It's pretty slim on bodies though.

So next question I guess is how many flesh hounds is about right to screen with? I think I have one unit of five. Seems ...slim. 

List, for context:

Allegiance: Khorne

- Slaughterhost: The Skullfiend Tribe

- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

 

Leaders

Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut (155) in Warlord

- General

- Command Trait: Master Decapitator

- Artefact: Crowncleaver

Bloodstoker (85) in Vanguard

Bloodsecrator (125) in Warlord

- Banner of Khorne (Artefact): Banner of Blood

Slaughterpriest (110) in Warlord

- Prayer: Killing Frenzy

 

Battleline

3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (170) in Warlord

- Bloodglaives

3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (170) in Warlord

- Bloodglaives

3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (170) in Vanguard

- Bloodglaives

5 x Flesh Hounds (105) in Hunters of the Heartlands

 

Units

10 x Wrathmongers (310) in Vanguard

- Reinforced x 1

1 x Khorgoraths (110) in Hunters of the Heartlands

1 x Khorgoraths (110) in Hunters of the Heartlands

 

Behemoths

Ghorgon of Khorne (160)

Ghorgon of Khorne (160)

 

Endless Spells & Invocations

Hexgorger Skulls (60)

 

Core Battalions

Vanguard

Warlord

Hunters of the Heartlands

 

Additional Enhancements

Artefact

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 1 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 153

I feel like list building is way harder now too.

[Lord Krungharr]

I better read the GHB.  I've not heard of the Hunters in the Heartlands battalion.  But I agree, a whole bunch more to think about for army construction.  However with yours there I wouldn't worry as much about the bodies, perhaps focus more on the battle tactics they can achieve every turn; and on the Grand Strategy they can achieve.  More than one way to win games now!

[Salyx]

14 hours ago, Perturbato said:

When you take account of the utility of the judgements, their cost, and the importance of only one prayer a turn. 

The fact that the skulls only utility now are -2 to cast .. but they cost 60 points ! There are usefull prayers that are free.

The fact that Hexgorger skulls don't reduce hits, 2 mortal wounds average + 1/6 chance of fail to do more .. for 85 points !! I'll pass on that again. We don't have the luxury to launch our judgement turn one and wait for the melee to happen chanting blood blessings because the map is smaller and we need the blessings as soon as possible.

Bleeding icon ... is bravery bomb a thing in khorne ? 50 points and a prayer slot .. no thanks. 

 

But i feel maybe i'm just negative and i'm sorry for that. I loved my old priest and i would  have said ok to one prayer/blessing + one judgement

I think Bravery bomb can definately be a Thing in Khorne. 

Let US Look at the Bravery Debuffs available:

Skull Helm - 2 Bravery

Khorgorath: - 1 Bravery

Chaos Knights: - 1 Bravery

Bleeding Icon: - 1 Bravery

Mindstealer Sphiranx: - 2 Bravery

So a total of - 7 Bravery Max, so even a Bravery 10 unit has to roll 2 or lower after one casualty. If they fail a Battleshock by X, X+ D3 or D6 will run away. If we play Reapers of Vengeance, another D3 will flee. So failing the Battleshock by one will results in at least 3 casualties up to 10. So we need elements that can spread out wounds across different units to make use of this. We have the Dark fire Demonrift (eww, Sorcery), the Wrath-Axe and the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage for spread- out Mortal Wounds. That might be a viable Bravery bomb build 

[Sharklone]

anyone been able to make a decent mortals list?

I've been at it for a bit, but without being able to use my karkadrak as general Im just not feeling any of the lists

Additionally, anyone got a good daemon list that uses bloodletters as opposed to doggos? I have 40 that have have only ever seen the table through summoning lol.

[Lord Krungharr]

I also have never used Bloodletters except for summoning.  They never seem to do the job; hopefully they'll get some love in the next book.  Guess you could try with a Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers running up behind them for extra attacks=extra MW?  That's all I can think of, and not pure daemons either.

Seems like a Bloodsecrator could be a decent general if he had the Amulet of Destiny, as he has good armor, but certainly not an upfront general.  Other than that I'd vote for a Wrath of Khorne Thirster for general.  

Decent mortals army....gotta have some Skullreapers, and a Bloodstoker, and I think Blood Warriors and Korgos Khul, also possibly with a Mighty Lord of Khorne.  All slowpokes but the table is a bit narrower now and they have good auras to make the regular blokes charge and hit a bit better.  But how to push it over the limit, I think just maxiumum threat overload?  Hoping to get some practice with them this week actually.  Probably vs Ogors, so good test vs a tough enemy, full of blood.

Tonight I made this list however thinking of how can I put my Bullgors in there.  Can't fit all 18, but 4x3 of them is decent:

2 Bloodsecrators (1 is general, but can't decide on CT, or even if I should take a Slaughterhost for this)

2 Daemon Princes (1 sword, 1 axe)

3x5 Flesh Hounds

2x3 Bullgors w great axes

2x3 Bullgors w axe n shield

2 single Chaos Spawn

2 Mindstealer Sphiranxes (allies)

1x6 Furies (allies)

Idea being that the Daemon Princes strike first anyways and can tag team something reasonably strong, whilst the cats hopefully freeze the minds of two other enemy units so the rest of the army can come in and chop them up before getting struck back.  Spawn and Furies can take Unleash Hell, and the Furies (if they live) can retreat from combat when chosen as a target, thus being cowardly like Skaven and annoying everyone.  Apparently they cannot take a Mark of Chaos?!? Oh well, they don't deserve the Mark of Khorne, they stink.

[Agent of Chaos]

I'm struggling with any type of Khorne list at the moment. One major issue is that we are used to making our General into a beatstick murder machine however AOS3 rewards you more for taking a tanky/defensive general. If you lose your general you lose a CP per turn so if he goes down during a Round 1 alpha strike thats 8CP for the battle you are losing. In addition you might have handed your opponent a battle tactic and/or their grand strategy, plus an extra VP if its a monster i.e. bloodthirster

I'm also mindful of which grand strategy to choose. Our battleline is all weak and meant to die so Hold the Line is out. Aside from Archaon none of our monsters or heroes (including priests) are tanky and we have no wizards so Beast Master, Pillars of Belief, Prized Sorcery and Vendetta are out. Sever the Head and Dominating Presence are extremely situational; you could come up against tanky heroes/units or just a mass of units and never be able to achieve these. That just leaves Predator's Domain, where a late game summoning might help us claim the extra terrain feature needed to achieve this Strat but my god (Khorne) its lame! 😞 I dont play Khorne to control scenery so I think Sever the Head feels best and I will just have to accept there will be games where its not possible to do. 

Choosing a slaughterhost is also really tricky now. I want to run daemons, mortals and BoC together but the host rules will only effect 1 out of 3 of those factions. I want to run a tanky general but all the command traits promote an aggressive general. Thronebreakers Torc is nice but then you cant benefit from cover/all out defense. I think Reapers still has play, especially with the new restriction on Inspiring Presence. I also think Generic Khorne might be an option too. Below are a couple of lists I've cooked up...