Smooth criminal Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3ed makes me want to take lord on juggernaut just to be sturdy general to generate those CPs and promote crushers to battleline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perturbato Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, Lior'Lec said: Thanks @CrimsonKing, but does anyone else feel a bit confused by the comment under allies at the bottom? We’ve lost DoT as allies and can only take Nurgle or StD, but StD excludes “units which can or must take a mark of chaos”. That’s most StD units and while we could still take them with a mark of Khorne, or as allies with mark of Nurgle (not sure here), we cannot take anything as chaos undivided? you take STD with mark of chaos khorne as coalition units : not allies but no battleline. You take STD without mark of chaos as allies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lior'Lec Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Yes, which is what I was asking. If the unit has the mark of chaos you can use it with the Khorne mark (if applicable) but otherwise you cannot use it at all. At first thought you could use them as allies with Nurgle mark but after thinking about it I don’t think that’s right. So no mark:undivided for allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AresX8 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said: 3ed makes me want to take lord on juggernaut just to be sturdy general to generate those CPs and promote crushers to battleline. Same, I'm in the camp that Skullcrusher stock has jumped dramatically now that they can almost function completely on their own with the changes to command abilities. I'm waiting on erratas to see if Juggerlord's command ability goes back to +1 to wound like how it was in the first BoK book. Him being bravery 9 also helps with Heroic Recovery, so he should be healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said: 3ed makes me want to take lord on juggernaut just to be sturdy general to generate those CPs and promote crushers to battleline. That is my take, though aesthetically I'm planning on bringing tons of skullcrushers/Khorne Chaos Knights, uncertain on the loadout. I'd imagine the best Is getting maximum rend and going all bloodglaves/cursed lances, hopefully the skullcrushers can catch enemies so the knights can get their charges at -2 rend 2 dmg I can see the damage output on skullcrushers is low and forget about D3 MW Murderous charge. What would be the best way in this edition to buff their damage? Goretide ability/Juggerlord's Blood Stampede for reroll 1's to wound (juggerlord's only on charge) Killing Frenzy blessing/All out attack is +1 to hit. Lackluster on 10 attacks (or can they also affect the mount attacks?) Wraithmongers give +1 attack but wholly 8" is pretty tight, only good for my sitting units Bloodstoker for movement and re-roll wounds Bloodsecrator +1 attacks hw16" I'd love to take a mounted-only list but really want to keep the priest/stoker/secrator. At 330pts that's just under 6 more juggernaughts/10 knights to flood the enemy with un-snipeable, sheer mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perturbato Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said: I'd love to take a mounted-only list but really want to keep the priest/stoker/secrator. At 330pts that's just under 6 more juggernaughts/10 knights to flood the enemy with un-snipeable, sheer mass KHORNE THE FLAYED 155 JUGGERLORD(GENERAL) 210 DAE PRINCE 125 BLOODSECRATOR 85 BLOODSTOCKER 110 SLAUGHTERPRIEST 510 9xJUGGERNAUT 105 FLESH HOUND 105 FLESH HOUNT 170 CHAOS KNIGHTS 170 CHAOS KNIGHTS 185 CHAOS WARSHRINE 60 HEXGORGER SKULLS 1990/2000 my take on a mounted list. But i can get rid of chaos knights/warshrine to put another slaughterpriest and korgoraths ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelangelo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Lior'Lec said: Yes, which is what I was asking. If the unit has the mark of chaos you can use it with the Khorne mark (if applicable) but otherwise you cannot use it at all. At first thought you could use them as allies with Nurgle mark but after thinking about it I don’t think that’s right. So no mark:undivided for allies. It seems that we also lost our Beast of Chaos allies, as we have no way to give them mark of Khorne outside of the warscroll bataillon. Feels a bit sad, hope they give the possibility to mark them in the FAQ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Perturbato said: KHORNE THE FLAYED 155 JUGGERLORD(GENERAL) 210 DAE PRINCE 125 BLOODSECRATOR 85 BLOODSTOCKER 110 SLAUGHTERPRIEST 510 9xJUGGERNAUT 105 FLESH HOUND 105 FLESH HOUNT 170 CHAOS KNIGHTS 170 CHAOS KNIGHTS 185 CHAOS WARSHRINE 60 HEXGORGER SKULLS 1990/2000 my take on a mounted list. But i can get rid of chaos knights/warshrine to put another slaughterpriest and korgoraths ! If i wanted to go really hard on the mounted elements this is my current thoughts, running goretribe, 2000pts on-the-nose Warlord battalion bloodthirster of Insensate Rage Slaughterpriest Lord on karkadrak 5 Chaos Knights 5 Chaos Knights Vanguard battalion Chaos Lord on Juggernaut 6 skullcrushers 3 skullcrushers 3 skullcrushers 5 Flesh Hounds 5 Flesh Hounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 The Juggerlord is definitely a tanky general for maintaining that extra CP per turn. However the issue with the Lord on Juggernaut's command ability, apart from being limited to mortals, is that it goes off in the combat phase. That means any unit you chose for the rerolling 1's to wound buff will not be able to receive all out attack/all out defence. Its also a pretty redundant ability in Goretide as mortals are already rerolling wounds of 1 when within 12" of objectives. If you get Bronzed flesh on the skullcrushers then you may not need to rely on all out defence, unless being hit with decent rend, but not convinced the Juggerlord is worth it. Bloodstoker would be the best option for full rerolls and extra movement. Then you can pop all out defence as needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldhat Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 I have had most of this army built in a box for years and years and I am only now missing the Skull Altar for this list. I am still crunching rules and stuff and lord knows there are likely many errors - but this was my first swing at a pure-mortal list. Unsure which tribe I will go with. Goretide has the likely best perk for the LoK+SC missile. Vanguard LoK Juggernaut (9) Mighty Skullcrushers Vanguard Bloodstoker (15) Wrathmongers Battle Regiment Bloodsecrator Slaughterpriest (10) Bloodreavers (10) Bloodreavers (10) Bloodreavers Khorgorath Khorgorath Hexgorger Skulls Burning Head Skull Altar [1990] Not sure if it is legal or whatnot. Just kicking list ideas around and considering model needs/options. Definitely wanting to stay pure mortals, though I would consider flesh hounds if only because the new models are actually good looking. Any thoughts on it for this noob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incredebilis Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Have demons gotten any better in this edition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annarborhawk Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Oldhat said: Any thoughts on it for this noob? The new unit coherency rule will make running such large units unworkable. Sucks for Skullcrusher's impact rule, but it'll be tough to get more than 4/6 or 6/9 into combat. Wrathmongers should be broken into 3x5 for the same reason. Edited June 22, 2021 by annarborhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Depends. Greater Deamons profit from Heroic and Monstrous Actions. Bloodletters suffer from the coherency update butprofit from the new stratagems. Bloodcrushers suffer strongly from the new base size and while Skullcrushers profit from scoring rules and become a really usefull choice due to all out defense, Bloodcrushers don't. Cannons and Bloodthrone seem mostly unaffected. Fleshhounds remain good battlelines. The lack of Warscroll Battallions is a shame for multi thirster lists 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldhat Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, annarborhawk said: The new unit coherency rule will make running such large units unworkable. Sucks for Skullcrusher's impact rule, but it'll be tough to get more than 4/6 or 6/9 into combat. Wrathmongers should be broken into 3x5 for the same reason. Fair point. Wish they had better reach on their weapons. Glaives should be 2". Looking at those bases, is a unit size of three really the best bet for them just to guarantee they all fight? At least WM are 2" reach. A back row of them can swing over the front row. 10 might be viable, but yeah 15 is unlikely in most scenarios. I was trying to get the most from the freebie boost so they can get into combat as fast as possible, hence the blobs. Shame that won't really work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 19 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said: The Juggerlord is definitely a tanky general for maintaining that extra CP per turn. However the issue with the Lord on Juggernaut's command ability, apart from being limited to mortals, is that it goes off in the combat phase. That means any unit you chose for the rerolling 1's to wound buff will not be able to receive all out attack/all out defence. Its also a pretty redundant ability in Goretide as mortals are already rerolling wounds of 1 when within 12" of objectives. If you get Bronzed flesh on the skullcrushers then you may not need to rely on all out defence, unless being hit with decent rend, but not convinced the Juggerlord is worth it. Bloodstoker would be the best option for full rerolls and extra movement. Then you can pop all out defence as needed. I like your clarification personally as a new player taking Juggerlord/goretide. Also as a new player I like that level of redundancy so if i go forward with juggerlord i can grant it, if i leave my crushers to hold and split off the lord he can grant it elsewhere (on knights) I personally need to review who and how much cp/how often can i perform these abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perturbato Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 hey .. i don't know it will be usefull but i wanted to learn something in excel as i never use it even if i'm the IT admin in my office. I created an excel to calcul list more easier i don't know if it will works for foreign users as my excel formules are french ^^ https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QhkEDIqyb2GJf7Rujn5L3lFAGPx5eG-0?usp=sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perturbato Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Will you use more often korghos khul now that he is cheaper(minus 15 points) and he is able to skip counter charge mesures (as he mostly doesn't need to charge) ? And he give reroll 1 to hit as a general (but no "hew the foe") and that is something that is scarcer now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth criminal Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 On 6/21/2021 at 3:40 PM, CrimsonKing said: I can see the damage output on skullcrushers is low and forget about D3 MW Murderous charge. What would be the best way in this edition to buff their damage? If we're talking mounted list you can take bloodlords host and give secrator the +4" move general trait so he can keep up with cavalry I think neither priest nor stoker are needed there. Shrine is probably better than priest because it can keep up with knights. To improve the output of crushers/knights you can: - take a secrator with a banner to reroll 1s - mounted lord can take a free CP per round artifact or reroll 1s artifact since he is both demon and mortal - jugger lord/goretide gives reroll 1s to wound - use cp generating abilites/prayers to give them +1 to hit So it's pretty easy to reroll both 1s to hit and to wound. I don't see how you can go below 3+ to wound with Khorne but 2+/3+ with rerolls should be good enough. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 On 6/21/2021 at 9:02 AM, Michelangelo said: It seems that we also lost our Beast of Chaos allies, as we have no way to give them mark of Khorne outside of the warscroll bataillon. Feels a bit sad, hope they give the possibility to mark them in the FAQ. I've been exiled from this forum by GW T_T I was actually 3-1 (I'd have won that last one if I was more careful with placement in the last round) with my blades of khorne army (using almost exclusively beasts) so this was mathematically speaking my best and most played army and now it doesnt exist anymore. I could proxy but I'll probably just go back to my lonely beasts of chaos corner of the forum. I'll miss you guys lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perturbato Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Smooth criminal said: - mounted lord can take a free CP per round artifact or reroll 1s artifact since he is both demon and mortal my god i didn't think of it, i'm going to paint my old metal lord of khorne on daemonsteed just for that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbok Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Hello! Could somebody explain me what is the reason behind the point increase of skullreapers in AOS 3.0? I think with the new coherency rules we are going to see less enemy units of 10+ models, and the monsters become better too. Skullreapers are worse against smaller units and monsters, isn't it? Am I missing anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, cbok said: Hello! Could somebody explain me what is the reason behind the point increase of skullreapers in AOS 3.0? I think with the new coherency rules we are going to see less enemy units of 10+ models, and the monsters become better too. Skullreapers are worse against smaller units and monsters, isn't it? Am I missing anything? Ummm, hmmmm, I can't think of a good reason for that. Maybe they were too cheap before? Ignoring battleshock is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmonRa Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) Skull reapers are just an all around solid unit with abilities like all out defense and attack helping even more. Not saying they needed such a big spike but even at this cost a unit will always make it into my lists. Edited June 23, 2021 by AmonRa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perturbato Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) they were expensive before, they got the average percentage increase and they are the same ^^. But they are the best bloodbound unit, too bad i lost the slaughterborn battalion Edited June 23, 2021 by Perturbato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 14 hours ago, Perturbato said: Will you use more often korghos khul now that he is cheaper(minus 15 points) and he is able to skip counter charge mesures (as he mostly doesn't need to charge) ? And he give reroll 1 to hit as a general (but no "hew the foe") and that is something that is scarcer now. I am actually considering Korghos for the first time. As you say his command ability has more value and as its an aura means those units effected can still benefit from All Out Attack etc. The 8" pile in stops Unleash Hell and Finest Hour helps to ensure his axe hits home. He needs more attacks but we have ways to make that happen 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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