AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Smooth criminal]

The main buff thirster got is the ability to protect themselves from shooting by +1 save on command.

The thirsters don't need to be in the same battalion. As I understand only 1 battalion reduces drops and without it you always count the units.

I'd wait on the whole drop count debacle until the meta for that becomes clearer. We can go 1 drop with 1 thirster or 3 drop with 3. But neither option has additional artifacts to protect those. I mainly want a 5+ ward generic artefact for the general thirster.

Oh, also a neat bit. The unbind thirster now can unbind 3 things at +2, that could put a wrench in people's plans.

 

My opinion about blood warriors is that 10x2 wounds for 200 is the new baseline (see chaos warriors) and they fit that baseline. Of course I won't be taking them in a thirster-based list but some people played mortal lists with 10xwarrior units and those got better with the ability to command themselves.

Coherency reduces them by 30% now, you keep 3 dudes back.

[Lord Krungharr]

As usual with my stock picks, I got 33 Blood Warriors recently.  I thought they were very cheap, but then the SCE opened an investigation and people dumped many units of Blood Warriors onto the market and their value went down.

But as they say, when there's blood in streets it's time to buy!

 

Still a good screen and battleline; their Gorefists give them MW when they take saves, and they pilein and attack when they die.  Good to peel those ones off the back ends then for that, making them a counterpunch unit.

[Agent of Chaos]

Fair call on Thirsters and drops and agree the +1 save and healing helps them survive until they get into combat. 

I see your point on 10 x chaos warriors but they are viable thanks to 5+ mortal wound shrug, rerolling saves and the ability to take 2" reach or rend -1 weapon options. They are twice as tanky as blood warriors with similar damage output for the same points. 

Bloodwarriors might bounce a mortal wound or 2 but will die quickly and take very little with them. We are going to need all the blood tithe we can get so being forced to take 10 instead of 5 really hurts. 

[TimeToWaste85]

I’m not gonna lie, the fact that MSU is the style, most things didn’t go up much compared to other armies…I think BoK is in a decent spot. Blood tithe is gonna be big. At least my Khorne army didn’t get hit as hard as my Slaanesh one…

[CrimsonKing]

Glad I bet on Skullcrushers and Flesh Hounds, given their positive assessment by @Agent of Chaos

[Agent of Chaos]

@CrimsonKing I am far from the expert on Skullcrushers but with easy access to 2+ save and counting as extra models on objectives they are a really interesting anvil unit. They look like they should wreck face in melee but their job is to quickly get on an objective and stay there.

As for flesh hounds, I will sing their praises for days!

[Troll.exe]

Bloodthirsters are almost done with the cap on 1 CA per phase. Bloodsecrator can’t keep up without gore pilgrims. No more leave none alive in combination with either 6” pile in or tyrants. Can’t attack 3 times in a combat phase with relentless fury. Can’t combine attacks at the start on a 4+ with tyrants. 

Priests take a 66% nerf

but...

skullreapers with all out attack on themselves is epic, even with the points increase they’re going to be tearing it up all over the board.

as mentioned mighty skullcrushers on a 2+, how good.

daemon prince with the spare CPs to spam blood slick ground constantly.

Any other silver linings?

 

 

 

 

[Agent of Chaos]

12 minutes ago, Troll.exe said:

Any other silver linings?

The rerolling 1's locus is inherently more valuable now

[Perturbato]

7 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

 

I just dont know why you would take priests and judgements now that priests are limited to one prayer/turn and judgements can be banished by enemy priests. 195 points for a priest and wraith axe that both only do anything if you roll 5+. Unless the judgements lose their disappear at the end of the round ability I dont see myself taking any. 

 

We are still able to take one free enhancement prayer to give two slaughterpriest 2 prayers (+1 AC or curse or heal) and the invocations stay until someone dispand it (it's written in the core rules for "invocation") so, if no priest in the enemi camp, if you manage to pull the wrath axe turn one or turn two you can do what you want in the enemy line

[Troll.exe]

Strangely enough, I feel like 2 priests might still be auto includes. Purely for bronzed flesh and killing frenzy. The potential to stack or share around 2x+1 to save and hit with all out attack and defence is very interesting.

[Perturbato]

question here : the bloodthirster can't be taken in battalion out of the "commandant" icon can't they ?

[AresX8]

4 hours ago, Troll.exe said:

Strangely enough, I feel like 2 priests might still be auto includes. Purely for bronzed flesh and killing frenzy. The potential to stack or share around 2x+1 to save and hit with all out attack and defence is very interesting.

I've come to the same conclusion as well since these will save us CPs, just need erratas to drop now.

[Salyx]

That point hike for Skullreapers really hurts. On the other Hand, Chosen are a very viable Option to me now. 5 of them cost 60 points less, their damage output is comparable, they only lack 1 wound. Mortal Wounds will be the way to go in this Edition, so Skullreapers, Chosen, Skullcrushers and Bloodthirsters of Insensate Rage will See more play. Monster Hero abilities combined are really good now, as they can get a free +1 Hit, wound and save. Not only Thirster, but a Lord on Manticor is worth another look as well. 

[TimeToWaste85]

On 6/18/2021 at 3:22 AM, Troll.exe said:

Strangely enough, I feel like 2 priests might still be auto includes. Purely for bronzed flesh and killing frenzy. The potential to stack or share around 2x+1 to save and hit with all out attack and defence is very interesting.

I know this is a horribly wrong idea (fluff wise)…but Wurmspat allied in for access to Mystic Shield? It’s a buffed Nurgle Sorc with bodyguards for serious defense on her. Plus a  3MW spell. I feel like this is a great allied option for Khorne, competitively. Assuming you’re not already rocking Archaon (hell, even if you are). 
 

edit: not to mention, it’s two additional blood tithe points when they die. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by TimeToWaste85

[frenk_castle]

Rules question

Slaughterborn:

Every swing of this warlord’s thirsty blade is a vision of murder.

You can re-roll hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by this general.

 

If this trait is given to Mighty Lord of Khorne it does not let the Flesh Hound to re-roll hits correct? Only the Lord with his Axe?

[AresX8]

5 hours ago, frenk_castle said:

Rules question

Slaughterborn:

Every swing of this warlord’s thirsty blade is a vision of murder.

You can re-roll hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by this general.

 

If this trait is given to Mighty Lord of Khorne it does not let the Flesh Hound to re-roll hits correct? Only the Lord with his Axe?

Correct, the Flesh Hound is treated like a mount as detailed on the warscroll. See:

27.3.1 ENHANCEMENT RESTRICTIONS
Enhancements cannot be given to Unique units (see 25.6.1) or allied
units, unless noted otherwise. In addition, artefacts of power and
command traits that affect attacks made by friendly models do not affect
attacks made by their mounts, unless noted otherwise.

[Kaleb Daark]

waiting with baited breath to see what happens to the exalted bloodthirster...

Unless of course, he's gone, in which case my thirsters will look all of the awesome anyway as I'll always choose the FW model over the plastic my first bloodthirster kit.

[Grimrock]

Had a game last night against Nurgle with this list organized into a Warlord and a Vanguard battalion:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Hew the Foe
Bloodsecrator (125)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc
Bloodstoker (85)
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown

Battleline
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)

Units
5 x Skullreapers (205)
5 x Skullreapers (205)
5 x Wrathmongers (155)
5 x Wrathmongers (155)
5 x Wrathmongers (155)

I have a few takeaways from the battle. First up, the insensate thirster is definitely a beast with the new rules. Being able to guarantee the +1 to hit and adding in a stomp is super strong. The one thing is he's pretty squishy and has a huge target on his head, so I think I'd prefer to make the daemon prince the general. I lost the thirster after he took out about 20 plaguebearers in one swing, and losing that auto command point every turn really hurt. Speaking of the prince though, he's rock solid. A 2+ save when needed or a +1 to hit when he isn't charging feels fantastic. Putting on Finest Hour the turn he charges makes him a blender for one round. Also I was able to combo his command and Redeploy with some screening flesh hounds to totally take a unit of blight kings and Gutrot out of the game. 

Running the list without slaughterpriests felt... kinda weird. The command points made up for it, but they did start getting scarce after the thirster died and it would have been nice to have at least one priest to toss out a buff. I could possibly see dropping a flesh hound unit for one but I'm not sure if it's worth it. On the flesh hounds, they made great screens and put out an impressive number of attacks but they died to a stiff breeze and wounding on 4's really sucks. I guess I can't really expect much from a basic battleline unit but it's always disheartening to do like 2 wounds to an enemy unit after picking up 30 dice. 

Not having warscroll battalions definitely sucked some fun out the lists but on a positive note it's really refreshing to be able to combine daemons and mortals without concern for what battalions I'm using. My list building with Khorne had become a little formulaic with slotting in major components (ex. Gore Pilgrims or Dark Feast, Blood forged or Slaughterborn) and then putting in a couple units to taste. Now it feels like I really have a lot more freedom. It's pretty nice for now but I am a little worried that without those major components I'll eventually focus in on a single 'best' list and not feel any incentive to try different things. Maybe I'm just paranoid though, we'll see how it goes. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Grimrock

[TimeToWaste85]

My aim, when I sit down with the book, is to do:

Bloodthirster of IR

bloodthirster of IR

scyla

Garrek’s reavers

magore’s fiends

wurmspat (allies)

3 units of Bloodreavers

skullcrushers

bloodsecrator

 

I have to check how many points I have left, but I want a bunch of small units, annoying ones that’ll get the tithe going, and summon in daemons. Maybe a priest if there’s room.  

 

[ledha]

What are all these talks about 2+ skullcrushers ? Did i miss something ?

[Lior'Lec]

Do we have a good quality peak at what the new points costs and unit sizes are for Blades? Specifically I’m interested in the mortals but the wouldn’t be turned off from the faction as a whole. 

[AresX8]

3 hours ago, ledha said:

What are all these talks about 2+ skullcrushers ? Did i miss something ?

Skullcrushers went to a 3+ save with the 2nd ed book in exchange for the spell ignoring shield ability. So factoring in All Out Defense is how the 2+ is coming about.

[CrimsonKing]

3 hours ago, ledha said:

What are all these talks about 2+ skullcrushers ? Did i miss something ?

Decimator said it. also take note in the new core rules https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/fZD0X060Qn7ZO0EE.pdf page 7 starts discussing generating command points, next page is hero abilities (first) but then default commands avaliable are shown in the rules for the phase they are used in (end of movement rules describes movement command etc) page 15 describes Attack phase command abilities (All out Defense, All Out Attack)

3 hours ago, Lior'Lec said:

Do we have a good quality peak at what the new points costs and unit sizes are for Blades? Specifically I’m interested in the mortals but the wouldn’t be turned off from the faction as a whole. 

Previous page of this thread (pg 283) has the blades/Std points and unit sizes screencapped

Edited June 20, 2021 by CrimsonKing

[Perturbato]

What do you think of Soulgrinders now that they are buffed with all the other monsters ?

Now that all my bloodbound army is done i want to paint the daemon part but i need a list to follow .. 

================================
KHORNE
THE BLOODLORDS(Ability : Slay the Mighty)

2 BATTALIONS (4 DROP)

COMMAND ENTOURAGE(3 DROPS)(715)(MAGNIFICIENT)
    COMMANDER : SKARBRAND(380)
    SUB-COMMANDER : DAEMON PRINCE(210)
    SUB-COMMANDER : BLOODSECRATOR(125)(ART:Talisman of Burning Blood)

BATTLE REGIMENT(1 DROP)(1220)(UNIFIED)
    COMMANDER : BLOODTHIRSTER OF UF(295)(GENERAL)(ART:Halo of Blood)(CT:Slaughterer's Thirst)(CA:First in His Sight)
    SUB-COMMANDER : SLAUGHTERPRIEST(110)(BRONZED FLESH)(HEAL)
    SUB-COMMANDER : SLAUGHTERPRIEST(110)(KILLING FRENZY)(CURSE)

    TROUP : 5xFLESH HOUNDS(105)
    TROUP : 5xFLESH HOUNDS(105)
    TROUP : 5xFLESH HOUNDS(105)
    TROUP : 5xWRATHMONGERS(155)

    BEHEMOTH : SOUL GRINDER(235)

INVOCATION : 
    HEXGORGERS SKULLS(60)

TRIUMPH : REROLL WOUND
1995/2000
 

================================

Talisman of burning blood is for the mortals to be able to keep up with the faster daemons, 4 drop is looking like i will mostly be able to take the initiative (and choose myself if i go first or not).

Curse + flesh hounds ban be usefull but will not occure that much anyway we got a free learned prayer with each of our priest (learned, not free to launch sadly).

Halo of blood and the the Daemon Prince will be able to fight first.

Unfettered fury warscroll CA is so usefull to be able to ignore the "unleash hell". And his ability to cancel retreat is more usefull now i think with all the warscroll that allow that (i guess manfred is free to teleport but i'll kick is ass before that in my turn).

And the bloodlords ability will be handy in a monster meta (i am absolutly not sure monsters will become the meta hear me ^^)

The only problem here is the blood tithe generation, maybe i need to take the blood sacrifice with one of my priests.

 

[Lior'Lec]

Thanks @CrimsonKing, but does anyone else feel a bit confused by the comment under allies at the bottom? We’ve lost DoT as allies and can only take Nurgle or StD, but StD excludes “units which can or must take a mark of chaos”. That’s most StD units and while we could still take them with a mark of Khorne, or as allies with mark of Nurgle (not sure here), we cannot take anything as chaos undivided?